Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna

[Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO]

This is a very broad question! If I had no limitations, financial or 
regulatory, I would probably get a large Steppir beam on a tower at 
least 70' tall. But that is probably not what you are thinking of.


A simple, cheap antenna is a dipole up as high as possible -- no less 
than 30 feet in the air at the center, preferably higher. You could 
simply make a 'fan dipole' for 40 and 20 meters, fed with coax and a 1:1 
balun at the feedpoint.


An even better antenna is a 40 or 80 meter dipole fed with open wire 
line (see ). You can buy this assembled 
quite reasonably. It will work with the KX3 internal tuner plus a 1:1 or 
4:1 balun at the transceiver. If the feedline is at least 33 feet long, 
a 66-foot dipole will work on all bands from 80 through 10 meters 
(probably 6 meters too). Again, the higher the better.


You can buy all kinds of expensive verticals and clever compact 
antennas, but the above will outperform all of them for both DX and 
local work. Some of the expensive ones will be far worse. The only 
better antenna is a directional antenna like a rotary beam.


I'll let someone else answer your question about field antennas.

73,
Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 8 Dec 2015 00:13, CRAIG SCHROEDER wrote:

I am pretty new ham and a brand new KX3/PX3 owner excited to try my
hand at DX'ing!  If you were buying your first HF base antenna,
primarily looking for performance on 20 and 40 meters, what would you
recommend?  Also, what do you suggest as a high performance field
antenna for QRP?

Thank you,

Craig KD0TXL

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Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Lot's of good info, but let's end this thread now in the interest of reducing 
email overload for others, as it has certainly exceeded the near term posting 
volume limit for a single topic.


73,
Eric
Moderate Moderator
/elecraft.com/


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Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna

[Gary Hawkins]

Hi Craig,

DX'ing with the KX3 (or any QRP radio) for that matter can be very 
challenging as you don't have the power to break pile-ups.  Thus, you're 
either going to need to get a high gain antenna, e.g. tower and beam, or 
I would suggest digital modes.  I've had a lot of success with WAS using 
JT65, JT9, PSK and RTTY using 10W or below with modest wire antennas.


As many have suggested either wire dipoles, OCFD or G5RV all have there 
advantages and disadvantages.  I'm currently using a RadioWavz FD40-3 
fan dipole resonant on 40, 20 and 10m - for $56 this is a very cost 
effective and nicely built purchase and will get you on the air quickly 
while you consider other options.  I've built many wire and yagi HF 
antennas, and whether you build or buy you're going to need an antenna 
analyzer to tune the antenna.  I personally use a RigExperts AA-54, 
which I like a lot.


Thus my suggestion to get going would be RadioWavz FD40-3 and a 
RigExperts AA-54 or similar.


Have fun with your KX3.

73's Gary K6YOA

On 12/7/2015 6:12 PM, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote:

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2015 16:13:22 -0600
From: CRAIG SCHROEDER<craigschroe...@mac.com>
To:"elecraft@mailman.qth.net"  <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna
Message-ID:<01dc4aef-3cde-46a6-802f-50e1cd517...@mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I am pretty new ham and a brand new KX3/PX3 owner excited to try my hand at 
DX'ing!  If you were buying your first HF base antenna, primarily looking for 
performance on 20 and 40 meters, what would you recommend?  Also, what do you 
suggest as a high performance field antenna for QRP?

Thank you,

Craig
KD0TXL


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Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna

[Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT]

I think that should be 65 feet.

73 -- Lynn

On 12/7/2015 9:22 PM, Edward R Cole wrote:

How long is a half-wave dipole?
L = 468/F, where L is in inches and F is in MHz
40m band F=7.2 MHz, L = 65 inches 


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[Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna

[CRAIG SCHROEDER]

I am pretty new ham and a brand new KX3/PX3 owner excited to try my hand at 
DX'ing!  If you were buying your first HF base antenna, primarily looking for 
performance on 20 and 40 meters, what would you recommend?  Also, what do you 
suggest as a high performance field antenna for QRP?

Thank you,

Craig
KD0TXL
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Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna

[Gerald Manthey]

Craig
Do you have the real estate to have dipoles up or are you limited in space?
Tnx 
Gerald KC6CNN

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Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna

[Dr. William J. Schmidt, II]

How much money do you want to spend?


Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ
 
Owner - Operator
Big Signal Ranch – K9ZC
Staunton, Illinois
 
Owner – Operator
Villa Grand Piton - J68HZ
Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I.
Rent it: www.VillaGrandPiton.com

email:  b...@wjschmidt.com
 

> On Dec 7, 2015, at 4:13 PM, CRAIG SCHROEDER  wrote:
> 
> I am pretty new ham and a brand new KX3/PX3 owner excited to try my hand at 
> DX'ing!  If you were buying your first HF base antenna, primarily looking for 
> performance on 20 and 40 meters, what would you recommend?  Also, what do you 
> suggest as a high performance field antenna for QRP?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Craig
> KD0TXL
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[Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna

[James Wilson]

Craig,
For a first HF antenna, I would suggest not buying but building your basic
antenna. A Half-Wave wire antenna (made from stranded copper wire from a
"big box" store) that is resonant (trimmed to the right length) at the
frequency you want to operate is both fundamental and highly effective.

Take a look at half wave dipole antennas in an ARRL Handbook or Antenna
Book.

This will get you on the air quite effectively.

>I am pretty new ham and a brand new KX3/PX3 owner excited to try

 >my hand at DX'ing!  If you were buying your first HF base antenna,

>primarily looking for performance on 20 and 40 meters, what would

>you recommend?
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Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna

[Barry LaZar]

Craig,
Let me start with there is such thing as the perfect antenna. Each 
is a compromise. Now having said that, there are several antennas that 
come to mind. First, there is a simple dipole, fan dipole, or off center 
fed dipole. This assumes that you have supports, trees or equal, that 
can allow you to get the antenna up at least 35' and are at least 70' 
apart. I prefer a 40 meter off center fed dipole, OCFD, as it covers all 
the bands, and being off center fed, allow it to be tuned fairly easily. 
A simple 40 meter dipole fed in the center will work on 20, but it will 
require a 4:1 current balun in the system. Fan dipoles can be made to 
operate on both bands, but tuning is interactive.


If you want to spend ~$600, a Gap Titan is a good antenna. It is a 
bit cumbersome to stand up, but they work. Just make sure the bottom of 
the antenna is about 10' above ground. This height prevents clothes 
lining friends and relatives, and no radials are required.


There are other antennas. Each has something good or bad, price, 
performance, difficulty, etc. My belief is simple is best. And, the same 
should be true field work.


73,
Barry
K3NDM

-- Original Message --
From: "CRAIG SCHROEDER" <craigschroe...@mac.com>
To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: 12/7/2015 5:13:22 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna

I am pretty new ham and a brand new KX3/PX3 owner excited to try my 
hand at DX'ing!  If you were buying your first HF base antenna, 
primarily looking for performance on 20 and 40 meters, what would you 
recommend?  Also, what do you suggest as a high performance field 
antenna for QRP?


Thank you,

Craig
KD0TXL
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Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna

[Milverton M. Swire via Elecraft]

Craig, my best advise, ARRL Antenna Book. 
There are way too many variables , and when it comes to Antenna, the only 
high performance Antenna there is, is measured in dbi. 
Go back through the archives here on the forum and you'll find many of 
educating 
discussion of different antenna subject. 

Best of luck, and WELCOME to Ham Radio and Elecraft.
73 Milverton / W9MMS.

  From: CRAIG SCHROEDER <craigschroe...@mac.com>
 To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net> 
 Sent: Monday, December 7, 2015 4:13 PM
 Subject: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna
   
I am pretty new ham and a brand new KX3/PX3 owner excited to try my hand at 
DX'ing!  If you were buying your first HF base antenna, primarily looking for 
performance on 20 and 40 meters, what would you recommend?  Also, what do you 
suggest as a high performance field antenna for QRP?

Thank you,

Craig
KD0TXL
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Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna

[Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT]

Wire antennas are flexible, work well and are incredibly inexpensive.

Put up as many as you can as big as you can.  If they stay up, they were 
too small.


73 -- Lynn

On 12/7/2015 2:13 PM, CRAIG SCHROEDER wrote:

I am pretty new ham and a brand new KX3/PX3 owner excited to try my hand at 
DX'ing!  If you were buying your first HF base antenna, primarily looking for 
performance on 20 and 40 meters, what would you recommend?  Also, what do you 
suggest as a high performance field antenna for QRP?

Thank you,

Craig
KD0TXL
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Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna

[CRAIG SCHROEDER]

Hi Gerald,

I own a large lot with 2 tall trees that could accommodate an 80 meter dipole, 
and with the cooperation of a friendly neighbor, I could fit 160 meters using 
his large tree across the back of his property.  My trees run east to west and 
using the neighbors tree I can run north to south. I'm located almost right in 
the center of the United States.

Performance is the driving factor, but I world like to stay under $500 for the 
antenna itself.

BTW, I ordered my KX3 with the internal antenna tuner and roofing filters.

Thank you,

Craig

> On Dec 7, 2015, at 4:24 PM, Gerald Manthey  wrote:
> 
> Craig
> Do you have the real estate to have dipoles up or are you limited in space?
> Tnx 
> Gerald KC6CNN
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna

[John Kramer]

I can suggest an antenna by www.myantennas.com  Look for their antenna
called an  EFHW 80-10. It will take 1 KW, and has a low SWR on all bands
80/40/30/20/17/15/12/10 bands. It is a half wave design, that I have had 
tremendous success with as a second antenna to my SteppIR beams. 
It is easy and quick to get up, and will serve you well until such time that you
decide whether to put up a tower and beam. It will also serve well as a portable
antenna. I have done comparisons to numerous OCFD, Gap Titan vertical,
G5RV, ZS6BKW, loops and other wire antennas, and in most cases it 
outperformed all of them. 

73
John ZS5J




On 08 Dec 2015, at 12:13 AM, CRAIG SCHROEDER  wrote:

I am pretty new ham and a brand new KX3/PX3 owner excited to try my hand at 
DX'ing!  If you were buying your first HF base antenna, primarily looking for 
performance on 20 and 40 meters, what would you recommend?  Also, what do you 
suggest as a high performance field antenna for QRP?

Thank you,

Craig
KD0TXL
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Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna

[David Guernsey via Elecraft]

My first HF antenna was an inverted V up aboutt 30 ft at feed point. It was cut 
for 20 meters, but worked on 15 and 4o also. 73 de Dave KJ6CBS
  From: CRAIG SCHROEDER <craigschroe...@mac.com>
 To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net> 
 Sent: Monday, December 7, 2015 4:13 PM
 Subject: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna
   
I am pretty new ham and a brand new KX3/PX3 owner excited to try my hand at 
DX'ing!  If you were buying your first HF base antenna, primarily looking for 
performance on 20 and 40 meters, what would you recommend?  Also, what do you 
suggest as a high performance field antenna for QRP?

Thank you,

Craig
KD0TXL
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Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna

[Don Wilhelm]

Craig,

For the home station, your first consideration is build or buy.  It is 
quite easy to build a pair of dipoles, one for 40 and one for 20 if 
those are your most desirable bands.  Get some wire, and some good coax 
and a good common mode choke for each antenna and use the ARRL handbook 
section on dipoles to build your own - it is not difficult.
Look at what you have for antenna supports - the higher the better, but 
for 40 meters, 50 feet is a suggested minimum for good performance.

If you have only one support that high, an inverted Vee works nicely.
Use resonant dipoles center fed and feed with 50 ohm coax.  Low loss 
RG8X is almost as low loss as RG8 but not as heavy.  If you are going to 
run power, use the RG-8 or RG-213 right from the start.


With a single tall support, for an inverted Vee configuration, position 
a 40 meter radiator at right angles with a 20 meter radiator and feed 
both with a single feedline.  Being placed at right angles to each 
other, there is little if any interaction.  Get the  ends of the 
inverted Vee radiators up as high as possible - if you can get the ends 
up to the same height as the center, that is great - you will have a 
pair of dipoles, so much the better.
Put the dipoles up, cut a bit long from what the "formula" tells you, 
and then trim it a bit at a time for the lowest SWR or for a reactance 
of zero should you have access to an antenna analyzer at the midpoint of 
your operating frequency.


If you have room for another dipole, consider adding a multiband antenna 
such as a G5RV so you can explore bands other than 40 and 20.


Use a good common mode choke at the antenna feedpoint (for the G5RV at 
the junction of the parallel feedline and the coax).  You will need a 
tuner for a G5RV or most any other multiband antennas.


If your horizontal space is limited, try a vertical.  I can recommend 
the GAP Titan, being a halfwave vertical, it needs no radials.  Mount 
the base 10 feet off the ground so the loop for 40 meters is above head 
level and use a good common mode choke at the feedpoint.


This is just for starters on your antenna quest.  That quest is an 
ongoing exercise for most hams.
Do not strive for the "best" antenna for starters, just get something up 
in the air and start operating - with time you will be able to determine 
how you want to improve your antenna farm.


For portable QRP operation, take a look at the End Fed Halfwave antennas 
offered by LNR Precision - They work and they have a good "trail 
friendly" lightweight version.  An EFHW can be easily deployed with one 
end in a tree and the other end near the transmitter.
If your field operations are more of the picnic table variety than the 
backpacking type, then consider a 32 foot heavy duty telescoping pole to 
hold up the center of an inverted VEE antenna.  Tie the center of a 
dipole antenna to the top of the pole and push it up - anchor the pole 
to whatever vertical support is available with bungy cords.  Extend the 
radiator ends out to whatever bushes or other supports are available.


So my suggestion is to start simple with homebuilt dipoles or other wire 
antennas, then grow your antenna farm after you get on the air and 
determine what you really want, and that may be a 150 foot tower with 
stacked rotating beams sometime in the future.  If you have space and 
want "beam" antennas using wire, consider 4 130 foot wires spaced 45 
degrees apart (total of 180 degrees spread) and you will have V-beams 
that can be steered - a very effective beam on 20 meters, but does 
require some feedline switching to select the pair of radiators to 
properly direct the radiation (it is bi-directional).


73,
Don W3FPR


On 12/7/2015 5:13 PM, CRAIG SCHROEDER wrote:

I am pretty new ham and a brand new KX3/PX3 owner excited to try my hand at 
DX'ing!  If you were buying your first HF base antenna, primarily looking for 
performance on 20 and 40 meters, what would you recommend?  Also, what do you 
suggest as a high performance field antenna for QRP?



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Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna

[Augie "Gus" Hansen]

On 12/7/2015 3:41 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:

Wire antennas are flexible, work well and are incredibly inexpensive.


Agreed - you can afford to experiment and learn a lot about antennas by 
building simple wire dipoles and loops before investing big money in 
towers and aluminum. And getting a copy of the ARRL Antenna Book, even 
an old edition at a swap meet or from a ham friend is highly recommended.


Put up as many as you can as big as you can.  If they stay up, they 
were too small.


Nah, let's get Craig started in the right direction. When I got into ham 
radio in the 1970s I often heard the expression "if your antenna didn't 
fall down last winter it wasn't big enough." But that's kind of like 
saying "If you're driving on the highway and you don't crash you're not 
driving fast enough."


I prefer to suggest that we should try to design and construct antennas 
well so that they stay up and work right. Putting a pulley and weight on 
the support of one end of a dipole suspended between two trees to 
accommodate tension changes from wind is an example of good technique.


Happy antenna building Craig.

Gus Hansen
KB0YH




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Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna

[Sfbonk via Elecraft]

 Another advantage of the 40 & 20 dipoles is that the 40 dipole should load up 
well on 15 (while it is still hanging in there prop wise). Will have some gain 
and the main lobes will be closer to the wire than broadside, so watch the 
orientation for DX coverage. I put up a G5RV at my vacation home and it loads 
with a tuner on 80 to 10. Has some gain on the higher bands ,keep in mind that 
nulls go along with the gain main lobes.

W3OU Steve

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Don Wilhelm <w3...@embarqmail.com>
To: CRAIG SCHROEDER <craigschroe...@mac.com>; elecraft 
<elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Mon, Dec 7, 2015 6:41 pm
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna

Craig,

For the home station, your first consideration is build or buy.  It is 
quite easy to build a pair of dipoles, one for 40 and one for 20 if 
those are your most desirable bands.  Get some wire, and some good coax 
and a good common mode choke for each antenna and use the ARRL handbook 
section on dipoles to build your own - it is not difficult.
Look at what you have for antenna supports - the higher the better, but 
for 40 meters, 50 feet is a suggested minimum for good performance.
If you have only one support that high, an inverted Vee works nicely.
Use resonant dipoles center fed and feed with 50 ohm coax.  Low loss 
RG8X is almost as low loss as RG8 but not as heavy.  If you are going to 
run power, use the RG-8 or RG-213 right from the start.

With a single tall support, for an inverted Vee configuration, position 
a 40 meter radiator at right angles with a 20 meter radiator and feed 
both with a single feedline.  Being placed at right angles to each 
other, there is little if any interaction.  Get the  ends of the 
inverted Vee radiators up as high as possible - if you can get the ends 
up to the same height as the center, that is great - you will have a 
pair of dipoles, so much the better.
Put the dipoles up, cut a bit long from what the "formula" tells you, 
and then trim it a bit at a time for the lowest SWR or for a reactance 
of zero should you have access to an antenna analyzer at the midpoint of 
your operating frequency.

If you have room for another dipole, consider adding a multiband antenna 
such as a G5RV so you can explore bands other than 40 and 20.

Use a good common mode choke at the antenna feedpoint (for the G5RV at 
the junction of the parallel feedline and the coax).  You will need a 
tuner for a G5RV or most any other multiband antennas.

If your horizontal space is limited, try a vertical.  I can recommend 
the GAP Titan, being a halfwave vertical, it needs no radials.  Mount 
the base 10 feet off the ground so the loop for 40 meters is above head 
level and use a good common mode choke at the feedpoint.

This is just for starters on your antenna quest.  That quest is an 
ongoing exercise for most hams.
Do not strive for the "best" antenna for starters, just get something up 
in the air and start operating - with time you will be able to determine 
how you want to improve your antenna farm.

For portable QRP operation, take a look at the End Fed Halfwave antennas 
offered by LNR Precision - They work and they have a good "trail 
friendly" lightweight version.  An EFHW can be easily deployed with one 
end in a tree and the other end near the transmitter.
If your field operations are more of the picnic table variety than the 
backpacking type, then consider a 32 foot heavy duty telescoping pole to 
hold up the center of an inverted VEE antenna.  Tie the center of a 
dipole antenna to the top of the pole and push it up - anchor the pole 
to whatever vertical support is available with bungy cords.  Extend the 
radiator ends out to whatever bushes or other supports are available.

So my suggestion is to start simple with homebuilt dipoles or other wire 
antennas, then grow your antenna farm after you get on the air and 
determine what you really want, and that may be a 150 foot tower with 
stacked rotating beams sometime in the future.  If you have space and 
want "beam" antennas using wire, consider 4 130 foot wires spaced 45 
degrees apart (total of 180 degrees spread) and you will have V-beams 
that can be steered - a very effective beam on 20 meters, but does 
require some feedline switching to select the pair of radiators to 
properly direct the radiation (it is bi-directional).

73,
Don W3FPR


On 12/7/2015 5:13 PM, CRAIG SCHROEDER wrote:
> I am pretty new ham and a brand new KX3/PX3 owner excited to try my hand at 
> DX'ing!  If you were buying your first HF base antenna, primarily looking for 
> performance on 20 and 40 meters, what would you recommend?  Also, what do you 
> suggest as a high performance field antenna for QRP?
>

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[Elecraft] Advice on first HF Antenna

[Bob via Elecraft]

bject: Re: [Elecraft] KRX3 & K144XV question
> Message-ID: <56660105.10...@embarqmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
> 
> Alan,
> 
> Set the Config menu VFO IND to YES.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
>> On 12/7/2015 3:58 PM, Alan Muldawer wrote:
>> I have a K3 with the second receiver KRX3 and I also have the internal 2
>> meter card K144XV and what I would like to do is to be on 6 meter, VFO A
>> and to listen to 2 meters on VFO B . I have had no luck! It looks like in
>> the information for K144XV it seems that this is possible :  "If you have a
>> KRX3 sub receiver installed, you can tune HF-6 meters with the sub while
>> operating on 2 meters with the main receiver/transmitter. "
>> http://www.elecraft.com/manual/K144XV%20Data%20Sheet%20rev%204sm.pdf
>> I have separate antennas for both bands. The 6 meter antenna is on #2 and
>> the 2 meter antenna is on #3.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 23:00:16 +0100
> From: Oliver Dr?se <dro...@necg.de>
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KRX3 & K144XV question
> Message-ID: <56660170.80...@necg.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
> 
> Alan,
> 
> as your quoted instructions say: VFO A on 2 m, VFO B on HF-6. Does not 
> work vice versa (as in your request) as the K144XV only connects to the 
> main RX (plus the sub RX if you share both, that would mean VFO A + B 
> both on 2 m). Also take a look at the RX switching PDF on the Elecraft 
> website for deeper insight into possible RX path'.
> 
> 73, Olli - DH8BQA
> 
> Contest, DX & radio projects: http://www.dh8bqa.de
> 
> 
>> Am 07.12.2015 um 21:58 schrieb Alan Muldawer:
>> I have a K3 with the second receiver KRX3 and I also have the internal 2
>> meter card K144XV and what I would like to do is to be on 6 meter, VFO A
>> and to listen to 2 meters on VFO B . I have had no luck! It looks like in
>> the information for K144XV it seems that this is possible :  "If you have a
>> KRX3 sub receiver installed, you can tune HF-6 meters with the sub while
>> operating on 2 meters with the main receiver/transmitter. "
>> http://www.elecraft.com/manual/K144XV%20Data%20Sheet%20rev%204sm.pdf
>> I have separate antennas for both bands. The 6 meter antenna is on #2 and
>> the 2 meter antenna is on #3.
>> Has anyone been able to do this and how. Thanks!
>> 73 Alan N3ALN
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>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to dro...@necg.de
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2015 16:13:22 -0600
> From: CRAIG SCHROEDER <craigschroe...@mac.com>
> To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna
> Message-ID: <01dc4aef-3cde-46a6-802f-50e1cd517...@mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> I am pretty new ham and a brand new KX3/PX3 owner excited to try my hand at 
> DX'ing!  If you were buying your first HF base antenna, primarily looking for 
> performance on 20 and 40 meters, what would you recommend?  Also, what do you 
> suggest as a high performance field antenna for QRP?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Craig
> KD0TXL
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 16:24:11 -0600
> From: Gerald Manthey <kc6...@gmail.com>
> To: CRAIG SCHROEDER <craigschroe...@mac.com>
> Cc: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna
> Message-ID: <59b5eb49-a36c-46d4-bf55-b02e8730e...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii
> 
> Craig
> Do you have the real estate to have dipoles up or are you limited in space?
> Tnx 
> Gerald KC6CNN
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 16:24:51 -0600
> From: "Dr. William J. Schmidt, II" <b...@wjschmidt.com>
> To: CRAIG SCHROEDER <craigschroe...@mac.com>
> Cc: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna
> Message-ID: <d0181822-2853-41f2-b93f-1c530a8d2...@wjschm

Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna

[Jim Brown]

On Mon,12/7/2015 2:13 PM, CRAIG SCHROEDER wrote:

I am pretty new ham and a brand new KX3/PX3 owner excited to try my hand at 
DX'ing!  If you were buying your first HF base antenna, primarily looking for 
performance on 20 and 40 meters, what would you recommend?


Real hams don't BUY antennas, we BUILD them. Antennas are the most 
important part of any station, and until you get into a tri-band beam, 
it is easy to build better than you can buy, and for a tiny fraction of 
the cost.


First, BUY a copy of the ARRL Handbook and the ARRL Antenna Book. STUDY 
(not quick read, but STUDY) these books so that you understand how 
antennas work. Next, STUDY the resources at your real estate -- what's 
available to support one or more wires up in the air?  If the answer is 
nothing, then consider buying a multi-band vertical. Suggestions about 
that later.


If you can support only one point, use it to support one or two "fan" 
dipoles. Build one fan for 80 and 40M, and hang the center from the very 
top of your single support. If you have two supports widely spaced 
enough, hang it between them. Build a second fan dipole for 20, 15 and 
10M. On these bands, 30-40 ft is a good height. Feed these antennas with 
50 ohm coax. If the feedline will be much longer than about 100 ft, use 
RG8 to minimize feedline losses.


If you're limited to a vertical, go with the biggest Cushcraft R-series 
you can afford, and try to mount it on your roof. HF verticals work 
better up in the air than on the ground. Again, feed it with 50 ohm 
coax, use the bigger RG8 if the feedline is very long.


There are lots of practical tutorials about how to build antennas on my 
website. k9yc.com/publish.htm  Start with the slide show and the short 
written piece about Antennas For Limited Space.


For portable QRP use -- start with plain ordinary insulated wire. #18 - 
#22 is a good size. Unroll a length close to a quarter wave, toss it 
into a tree, using string or rope to hold it up. Unroll a second length 
close to a quarter wave and connect it to the chassis of the KX3. Much 
cheaper and works far better than so-called QRP antennas that you buy. 
If there are no trees around where you plan to operate, buy one of the 
telescoping fiberglass poles designed to hold wire antennas and tape the 
wire to it that you would have tossed into a tree. Connect the second 
wire to the chassis. There's a photo of me on my qrz.com page doing 
exactly this about 12 years ago at a county park near Chicago. The rig 
is a K2.


73, Jim K9YC



Also, what do you suggest as a high performance field antenna for QRP?


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Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna

[w7aqk]

Craig and all,

You have received a lot of advice, and most of it was probably pretty good 
advice.  I would want to know a few more things about your situation if I 
were to make any recommendations which I thought were very precise.  Of the 
responses I read, I think the best ones (my opinion) came from Don Wilhelm 
and Jim Brown.  Don focused on your stated preference for 40 and 20 meters, 
and Jim added some good advice about vertical alternatives.


You didn't say exactly what flexibility you have about erecting an 
antenna--trees, space, etc.  If you want to work DX, you need to try and get 
your antenna up in the air as high as possible--at least 40 ft. or more. 
That's particularly important if all you are able to do is run at near QRP 
levels with a barefoot KX3.  Resonant dipoles for 40 and 20, at a decent 
height, should allow you to achieve some success, and they are relatively 
easy to construct.


You don't mention if you have a tuner, or if you purchased the ATU accessory 
for the KX3.  If you don't have either, you should probably invest in one. 
The KX3's internal ATU is excellent, but even a simple tuner like an MFJ, 
can give you several added options.  One is a single dipole fed with 
balanced feed line, which will probably allow you to operate several other 
bands.  When using balanced feed line and an internal ATU, a balun like the 
Elecraft BL-2 may be a necessary addition.  That is switchable between 1:1 
and 4:1, and the 1:1 setting will probably be your best option generally. 
This can be a very versatile arrangement, and not difficult or expensive to 
construct.  you can erect it as a horizontal dipole or an inverted vee, 
depending on what you have available for supports.


Several responders mentioned commercial alternatives.  End Fed Half Waves, 
like those from PAR Electronics (now LNR) do work quite well.  Some models 
are power limited, so choose accordingly.  The Par 10/20/40 is a good choice 
to match the KX3, but again, you should try and get it up in the air as high 
as you can.


Commercial multi-band verticals can be expensive, but I like Jim Brown's 
recommendation for something in the Cushcraft R series.  I've used an R8 
(and also the R7 which preceded it) for years with very good results.  As 
Jim says, put it up off the ground if at all possible.  Mine is about 15 
feet above the ground, and works considerably better than when I tried it 
ground mounted.  Some others mentioned a Gap Titan, which will give you 80 
meters as well (the R8 only goes down to 40 meters), but performance on that 
band is very marginal!  You would probably be much better off with the 
dipole/balanced feed line system I mention above so long as you can make the 
radiator part at least 100 ft. long or so.  An 88 ft. version suggested by 
L.B. Cebik (SK), who was a highly regarded "guru" on antennas, can work very 
well, but will test the capabilities of your tuner on 80 meters.  Also, 
comparing the Gap Titan to the R8 was something done quite extensively by 
Ward Silver, N0AX, who is well known for his expertise.  Overall, the R8 was 
the better antenna, but it does not cover 80 meters.   If you look around, 
you might find a good used one of either model, and save a bunch of bucks!


A lot of people will tell you that nothing beats resonant dipoles.  They are 
probably right.  However, you may not be blessed with lots of space or other 
important aspects necessary for having such, so a single dipole and balanced 
line, and a good tuner, can make up for a lot of sins.  The balanced feed 
line will help you keep your efficiency up when multi-banding so long as you 
have a tuner to do the matching.  Using coax on such a system will introduce 
significant loss unless the matching is all done at the feed point. 
Otherwise, you might see a decent SWR, but your output will be significantly 
reduced.


Hope you are not totally confused by all of this.  Just remember that your 
antenna is an extremely important part of your overall system, and needs a 
lot of consideration and effort to really enhance your results.  You have a 
very nice radio, but it won't do much unless you put a decent antenna on the 
end of it.


Dave W7AQK


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Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna

[Edward R Cole]

Simplest first HF antenna is a half-wave dipole.

My first antenna was a 40m dipole hung from trees with lead in run in 
thru an upstairs window to my radio.


Actually this was in 1958 and I was 14 years old so had no 
money.  Back in those years there was something called twin-lead 
which was used as feedline for TV antennas and was cheap.  I made a 
folded-dipole and used another piece of twin lead as feedline which I 
soldered into a PL-259 which I connected to my three tube receiver 
(which I also built from a kit).


Yeah that was connected wrong and it had high SWR but it received 
just fine.  Later it worked well connected to my Heath DX-35 which 
could load anything.  I would not know anything about SWR for a 
couple years but had just a lot of fun with that wire antenna.  It 
was probably 15 to 25 foot off the ground and put up with something 
called "clothesline".  Back in those years people hung their clothes 
outside in the sun to dry attached to clothesline with something 
called clothes pins.


OH well, that is how I, a pretty ignorant 8th grader, started out in 
ham radio on 40m (and it would also work on 15m).  It received all 
bands pretty well.  10m AM in 1958 was something to have 
experienced.  No one will every see conditions like that sunspot 
maximum again (well for a couple hundred years, anyway).


How long is a half-wave dipole?
L = 468/F, where L is in inches and F is in MHz
40m band F=7.2 MHz, L = 65 inches

This is on page 580 in my 1972 ARRL Handbook (yes I still have it).
to see what I have today, check out my website (link below)

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
dubus...@gmail.com

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