Re: [Elecraft] Antistatic Silicon Mat?

[Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS]

Thanks for comment Alan,

we still have some of them as we had to purchase large role of that material
in order to get nice price from the seller.
So we cut them for these mats and completed the set which they are fit to
labs as same as to kitchen :)
Some of these set are still available in radioclub.

After ordering and arrival I decided to make several tests:

Several oils, greases and different solvents and mat survived without
any damages.

The flare-up point and it seems to be higher than 1000 C which is
corresponding to almost 2000 F. (I was limited by temp sensors and
thermometer
over here)

The burning thru temperature and it survived 450 C for 2mins which is
corresponding to 850 F. (I was limited by my soldering station, hi)

The max of the temp without any noticeable damage of the top layer. It
survived 200 C for 2mins which is corresponding to 400 F.

Best regards,
73 - Petr, OK1RP



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Re: [Elecraft] Antistatic Silicon Mat?

[ke9uw]

Silicon is great, doesn’t melt if you drop hot solder on it.



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Re: [Elecraft] Antistatic Silicon Mat?

[G4GNX]

I can thoroughly recommend these kits. I do all my ESD work on one.

73,

Alan. G4GNX

-Original Message- 
From: Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS

Sent: Monday, January 15, 2018 9:15 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Antistatic Silicon Mat?

Just FYI,

https://www.ebay.com/itm/232431490283?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649
... surpluses selling by our local radio club until sellout.

73 - Petr, OK1RP

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Re: [Elecraft] Antistatic Silicon Mat?

[Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS]

Just FYI,

https://www.ebay.com/itm/232431490283?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649
... surpluses selling by our local radio club until sellout.

73 - Petr, OK1RP



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Re: [Elecraft] Antistatic Silicon Mat?

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Right. The mats are usually grounded directly since they have a fairly high 
internal resistance, while the wrist strap that features a metal contact to the 
user has a 1 meg resistor in series. 

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of SteveL
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 12:24 PM
To: Elecraft List
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Antistatic Silicon Mat?

Also, I believe ESD wrist straps should have something like a 1 meg ohm 
resistor in the ground connection to mitigate direct (and potentially fatal) 
shock to ground while allowing the bleed off static charge.  A direct 
connection to ground is hazardous!

Steve
aa8af



> On Jan 12, 2018, at 1:19 PM, Dale Chayes  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever you buy, don’t forget (the obvious, but often overlooked):
> - at least one wrist strap
> - and you have to ground the mat
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Antistatic Silicon Mat?

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

I follow Elecraft Engineer Paul's advice (after he studied the electrical 
characteristics of a number of mats) and avoid any mats that do not specify 
their ohmic values. Too often, such mats better insulators than static 
dissipating devices.

So I'd at least e-mail the manufacturer for electrical specs. 

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of F5vjc
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 10:32 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] Antistatic Silicon Mat?

Found on Amazon, looks very handy but is it really antistatic (ESD safe) for 
our purposes?
500 ℃ Heat-resistant silicone repair mat for soldering iron, telephone and 
computer repair, anti-slip desk repair mat with BGA welding repair station by 
XOOL 
<https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=bl_dp_s_web_0?ie=UTF8&field-keywords=XOOL&index=automotive&search-type=ss

>

73, F5VJC
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Re: [Elecraft] Antistatic Silicon Mat?

[Don Wilhelm]

An antistatic mat 'worth its salt' will have a ground connection and the 
distributed conductance of the mat material provides safety from the 
direct ground.
Yes, wrist straps are different, they have a large resistor (about 1 
megohms) in series with the ground connection.  Mine connect to a 
'button' on the rear corner of the mat.


I have a quality mat covering much of my workbench as well as a wrist 
strap.  My commonly used tools rest on the mat as well as the radio 
being worked on.  Other less commonly used tools do not live on the mat 
but are brought into contact with the mat for a bit of time before 
touching them to any internal part of the radio.


I believe these are good antistatic work practices.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/12/2018 3:23 PM, SteveL wrote:

Also, I believe ESD wrist straps should have something like a 1 meg ohm 
resistor in the ground connection to mitigate direct (and potentially fatal) 
shock to ground while allowing the bleed off static charge.  A direct 
connection to ground is hazardous!

Steve
aa8af




On Jan 12, 2018, at 1:19 PM, Dale Chayes  wrote:



Whatever you buy, don’t forget (the obvious, but often overlooked):
- at least one wrist strap
- and you have to ground the mat



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Re: [Elecraft] Antistatic Silicon Mat?

[SteveL]

Also, I believe ESD wrist straps should have something like a 1 meg ohm 
resistor in the ground connection to mitigate direct (and potentially fatal) 
shock to ground while allowing the bleed off static charge.  A direct 
connection to ground is hazardous!

Steve
aa8af



> On Jan 12, 2018, at 1:19 PM, Dale Chayes  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever you buy, don’t forget (the obvious, but often overlooked):
> - at least one wrist strap
> - and you have to ground the mat
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Antistatic Silicon Mat?

[Dale Chayes]

I think might (in some way) OT except that folks here build kits…..

No knocks on ebay - like everywhere else, if you are careful, you can get what 
you pay for.  I’ve found great things there for very little money on ebay.

For comparison, a range of bench mats from Newark:
http://www.newark.com/c/static-control-site-safety-clean-room-products/esd-protection-products/anti-static-mats

I’ve installed and used a wide range of antistatic mats on benches (and far 
less optimum locations including on the deck, in the snow, and the ground) in 
lots of places for work.

I bought a pair for my benches at home and a 3M portable (field kit):
https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/3M-TELCOM-STATIC-FIELD-SERVICE-KIT/2316620.aspx
with seems to come from SCS these days (are they spun off of 3M?)

Whatever you buy, don’t forget (the obvious, but often overlooked):
- at least one wrist strap
- and you have to ground the mat

I’m relatively new to the amateur radio hobby and I find it fascinating that 
many of us (this is the Elecraft list after all) are willing to pay nontrivial 
money for the best radios but at least some find it hard to justify paying for 
quality for the supporting infrastructure/equipment.

YMWV,

-Dale
KB1ZKD



> On Jan 12, 2018, at 12:00 , Kevin Cozens  wrote:
> 
> On 2018-01-12 01:32 AM, F5vjc wrote:
>> Found on Amazon, looks very handy but is it really antistatic (ESD safe)
>> for our purposes?
> 
> I wouldn't touch that type of mat if you are working with static sensitive 
> electronics.
> 
> For a proper ESD mat take a look at this:
>   https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_nkw=272253182084
> 
> A top half that is dissapative, can't easily be punctured, can handle high 
> temperature for a short time without burning for a short term. The bottom 
> half is conductive. It has attachment points for a wrist strap and for the 
> wire that should be connected to ground to get rid of any charge build up.
> 
> --
> Cheers!
> 
> Kevin.
> 
> http://www.ve3syb.ca/   |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract
> Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're
>   | powerful!"
> #include  | --Chris Hardwick
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Re: [Elecraft] Antistatic Silicon Mat?

[Kevin Cozens]

On 2018-01-12 01:32 AM, F5vjc wrote:

Found on Amazon, looks very handy but is it really antistatic (ESD safe)
for our purposes?


I wouldn't touch that type of mat if you are working with static sensitive 
electronics.


For a proper ESD mat take a look at this:
https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_nkw=272253182084

A top half that is dissapative, can't easily be punctured, can handle high 
temperature for a short time without burning for a short term. The bottom 
half is conductive. It has attachment points for a wrist strap and for the 
wire that should be connected to ground to get rid of any charge build up.


--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/   |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're
| powerful!"
#include  | --Chris Hardwick
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Re: [Elecraft] Antistatic Silicon Mat?

[Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS]

Hi,

yes, exactly. The silicone only means insulating with low charging but there
is no way to 
dissipate nor conduct the charge away to ground.

The standard ESD mats has the top dissipative layers and bottom conductive
layers mats connected to central ground and equipped with wrist strap. 

73 - Petr, OK1RP



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Re: [Elecraft] Antistatic Silicon Mat?

[G4GNX]

If there's no ground connection to the mat itself, then for ESD it's about 
as useful as a chocolate coffee pot!


Google for groups on the 'net who sell mats and have properly evaluated 
them. The ideal thing is a proper mat with a (resistive) ground connection 
and a stud to connect wrist strap. That way if you pick up ungrounded 
tweezers or any other conductive tool, you will be (ESD) grounded and so 
will the tool.


Unless you can find the correct item elsewhere, then purchase the exact same 
thing via Amazon, I would not trust ANY claims by Amazon sellers.


You get what you pay for!

73,

Alan. G4GNX

-Original Message- 
From: Jim - N4ST

Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 2:28 PM
To: 'F5vjc' ; 'Elecraft Reflector'
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Antistatic Silicon Mat?

I don't believe the mat is anti-static any more than my wife's silicone 
baking sheets.
They claim the tweezers "adopts anti-static design to prevent static damage 
to electronic components", whatever that means.  No wire attachments are 
shown for the tweezers.

I don't think this is what you want for ESD sensitive work.

__
73,
Jim - N4ST

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of F5vjc

Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 01:32
To: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: [Elecraft] Antistatic Silicon Mat?

Found on Amazon, looks very handy but is it really antistatic (ESD safe) for 
our purposes?
500 ℃ Heat-resistant silicone repair mat for soldering iron, telephone and 
computer repair, anti-slip desk repair mat with BGA welding repair station 
by XOOL 
<https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=bl_dp_s_web_0?ie=UTF8&field-keywords=XOOL&index=automotive&search-type=ss>


73, F5VJC
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Re: [Elecraft] Antistatic Silicon Mat?

[Jim - N4ST]

I don't believe the mat is anti-static any more than my wife's silicone baking 
sheets.
They claim the tweezers "adopts anti-static design to prevent static damage to 
electronic components", whatever that means.  No wire attachments are shown for 
the tweezers.
I don't think this is what you want for ESD sensitive work.

__ 
73,
Jim - N4ST

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of F5vjc
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 01:32
To: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: [Elecraft] Antistatic Silicon Mat?

Found on Amazon, looks very handy but is it really antistatic (ESD safe) for 
our purposes?
500 ℃ Heat-resistant silicone repair mat for soldering iron, telephone and 
computer repair, anti-slip desk repair mat with BGA welding repair station by 
XOOL 
<https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=bl_dp_s_web_0?ie=UTF8&field-keywords=XOOL&index=automotive&search-type=ss>

73, F5VJC
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Re: [Elecraft] Antistatic Silicon Mat?

[Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS]

Hi,

it is not about the antistatic only...
It is about the conductivity and dissipation etc.

Generally speaking, the performance of ESD mats depends on the material from
which they are constructed. That material can include:

•  Homogenous mats are comprised of either vinyl or rubber. These mats
typically offer the highest amount of electrical absorption because they are
composed of a single, solid block of the same material.

•  Three-layer mats, usually made with vinyl, offer a decent level of
electrical absorption. Their strongest advantage comes in the form of an
increased level of comfort to the worker standing on the mat.

•  Two-layer vinyl mats offer the electrical absorption capabilities of
three-layer mats at a significantly reduced cost.

•  Two-layer rubber mats provide both a high level of electrical
absorption and an immense level of comfort to workers. Two-layer rubber mats
are also extremely chemical-resistant. However, this multipurpose mat comes
at a somewhat higher cost than others.

Vinyl mats tend to be preferred in situations where cost is the ultimate
priority, whereas rubber mats are better for situations where a high level
of chemical or heat resistance is required. With that in mind, it’s likely
that many companies will require both vinyl and rubber mats for use in
different parts of their manufacturing facilities.


I posted some info here:
http://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php/topic,84533.0.html


Best regards,
73 - Petr, OK1RP



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[Elecraft] Antistatic Silicon Mat?

[F5vjc]

Found on Amazon, looks very handy but is it really antistatic (ESD safe)
for our purposes?
500 ℃ Heat-resistant silicone repair mat for soldering iron, telephone and
computer repair, anti-slip desk repair mat with BGA welding repair station
by XOOL


73, F5VJC
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