Re: [Elecraft] Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time?

[Don Wilhelm]

David, (caution, long explanation)

I am not certain how the "Black Box TL115A" achieves a splitter 
function, but if it does not have smarts to allow only one RS-232 device 
at a time to transmit, it will not work properly.

Similarly, a simple "Y" splitter will not work.

To answer the "why" of the problem - look at the RS-232 switching 
levels.  The driver level for a logic 1 (mark) is at a negative voltage 
while a logic 0 (space) is a positive voltage.  The actual voltage can 
range from +3 to +15 volts for a logic 0 and -15 to -3 volts for a logic 1.


Imagine what happens if one device tries to send a logic 0 while the 
other device tries to send a logic 1.  The voltages will "fight" with 
one another and the result will be garbage.


For a "Black Box" to work properly, it must act as a 'traffic cop' to 
allow only one device to transmit data at a time.  That means the 
'traffic cop' must control the DTR and CTS control lines - and that the 
two devices must honor those control lines to indicate when to send.


The Elecraft KXPA100 only connects the TXD and RXD signals, which means 
it cannot honor the DTR and CTS control signals.  Your ATU may be 
similar.  In other words, there is no 'handshaking' to tell which device 
can transmit data.


For purposes of the KXPA100 (and KX3 and PX3), neither your device nor a 
splitter will function correctly.


The only device that will work on a single RS-232 port with the KXPA100 
(or other gear) is the SteppIR controller or other gear that can be 
configured to only listen to the data between the KXPA100 and the PC (it 
never transmits data).  In that case, a simple "Y" cable will suffice, 
no more complex "traffic cop" device is needed.


You did not say what ATU you are trying to connect, so I can't say how 
it applies to this situation.  If it only listens to the data (either 
has no driver on the DE-9 pin 2 signal [RXD] or disables that driver), 
then it will work with a "Y" splitter cable, but otherwise it will 
conflict with data sent from the KXPA100 to the PC.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/6/2017 10:12 PM, David Orman wrote:

Hi,

I picked up a modem splitter (Black Box TL115A) and tried to make this work
with no luck. If I connect my computer's output directly to the KXPA100
serial out cable, it works fine. If I connect the ATU to the KXPA100 serial
out, it works fine. If I put the splitter in place, even if I only just
connect the computer, I cannot communicate with the KXPA100. Same re: the
ATU. Connecting both does not work either. I did get these devices off eBay
(I was shipped two, actually) but neither appears to work - not sure if
this is faulty adapters or if this mechanism just doesn't work in general.
I only spent $10 on them, so it's no big loss, but I'd sure hate to go
spend $80 on the BCE model to have the same results.

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Re: [Elecraft] Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time?

[David Orman]

Hi,

I picked up a modem splitter (Black Box TL115A) and tried to make this work
with no luck. If I connect my computer's output directly to the KXPA100
serial out cable, it works fine. If I connect the ATU to the KXPA100 serial
out, it works fine. If I put the splitter in place, even if I only just
connect the computer, I cannot communicate with the KXPA100. Same re: the
ATU. Connecting both does not work either. I did get these devices off eBay
(I was shipped two, actually) but neither appears to work - not sure if
this is faulty adapters or if this mechanism just doesn't work in general.
I only spent $10 on them, so it's no big loss, but I'd sure hate to go
spend $80 on the BCE model to have the same results.

Is there a way to make this work without software, so I can still control
the KX3/KXPA100/PX3 via the computer, but the ATU can read frequency data?
I'm considering one of those Y-splitters (one male to two female?) but I'm
worried that this will prevent me from being able to use the computer to
change the frequency on the radio.

I'm still trying to solve this outside of a software solution, that's my
last resort if I can't make something work in hardware.

Thank you all again,
David


On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:

> On 1/19/2017 10:53 PM, David Orman wrote:
>
>> I need an additional RS232 output in addition to the connection
 to the PC for an external device that needs to track the vfo
 frequency of the KX3. I'd like to have the PC able to track what
 frequency/control what frequency my radio is tuned to, and at the
 same time have my external device also tracking the frequency the
 KX3 is tuned to.

>>>
> David,
>
> What is the external device?  Does it need to poll the KX3 or is it
> satisfied by seeing the IF; and/or FA; responses to the logging
> software?
>
> RS-232 is a point to point protocol and does not allow for multiple
> active transmitters at the same time. However, in some cases one
> can attach a second "receive only" device in parallel.  The typical
> connection is shown in the SteppIR "Y cable" schematic that I have
> sent to you directly (ignore the jumper between pins 7 and 9 as that
> is SteppIR specific).
>
> If both the computer and hardware device must poll independently,
> you might be able to get away with a "Modem Data Splitter" like
> one of these from B Electronics: http://www.bb-elec.com/Product
> s/Serial-Connectivity/Serial-Data-Tools-Adapters/Port-Splitters.aspx>
> but you need to be careful that both the logger and hardware device
> do not send data to the KX3 at the same time since the modem data
> splitter is passive (diode isolation) and the data will be corrupted
> if both devices transmit at the same time.
>
> 73,
>
>... Joe, W4TV
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time?

[Harry Yingst via Elecraft]

LP-Bridge is the free solution and you could possible even run it in a windows 
session under Virtual Box.


There are hardware solutions out there to do what you want. I had looked into 
them in the past when I was considering moving back to Linux.





  From: David Orman 
 To: donw...@embarqmail.com 
Cc: Elecraft Reflector 
 Sent: Friday, January 20, 2017 8:39 AM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at 
the same time?
   
Thank you (everyone). I'm a Linux user so was hoping for a HW based
solution but sounds like LP bridge is the answer based on the responses to
this thread. Dual boot, here I come.

David

On Jan 19, 2017 22:47, "Don Wilhelm"  wrote:

> David,
>
> The LP-Bridge application has an output that you can set up which will
> send some information to another serial port on the computer.  See the
> LP-Bridge documentation at www.telepostinc.com.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 1/19/2017 10:53 PM, David Orman wrote:
>
>> Hi Don,
>>
>> This is what I'm currently doing. I need an additional RS232 output in
>> addition to the connection to the PC for an external device that needs to
>> track the vfo frequency of the KX3. I'd like to have the PC able to track
>> what frequency/control what frequency my radio is tuned to, and at the same
>> time have my external device also tracking the frequency the KX3 is tuned
>> to. I apologize for being less than clear. :)
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time?

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

On 1/19/2017 10:53 PM, David Orman wrote:

I need an additional RS232 output in addition to the connection
to the PC for an external device that needs to track the vfo
frequency of the KX3. I'd like to have the PC able to track what
frequency/control what frequency my radio is tuned to, and at the
same time have my external device also tracking the frequency the
KX3 is tuned to.


David,

What is the external device?  Does it need to poll the KX3 or is it
satisfied by seeing the IF; and/or FA; responses to the logging
software?

RS-232 is a point to point protocol and does not allow for multiple
active transmitters at the same time. However, in some cases one
can attach a second "receive only" device in parallel.  The typical
connection is shown in the SteppIR "Y cable" schematic that I have
sent to you directly (ignore the jumper between pins 7 and 9 as that
is SteppIR specific).

If both the computer and hardware device must poll independently,
you might be able to get away with a "Modem Data Splitter" like
one of these from B Electronics: 
http://www.bb-elec.com/Products/Serial-Connectivity/Serial-Data-Tools-Adapters/Port-Splitters.aspx>

but you need to be careful that both the logger and hardware device
do not send data to the KX3 at the same time since the modem data
splitter is passive (diode isolation) and the data will be corrupted
if both devices transmit at the same time.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV

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Re: [Elecraft] Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time?

[David Orman]

Thank you (everyone). I'm a Linux user so was hoping for a HW based
solution but sounds like LP bridge is the answer based on the responses to
this thread. Dual boot, here I come.

David

On Jan 19, 2017 22:47, "Don Wilhelm"  wrote:

> David,
>
> The LP-Bridge application has an output that you can set up which will
> send some information to another serial port on the computer.  See the
> LP-Bridge documentation at www.telepostinc.com.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 1/19/2017 10:53 PM, David Orman wrote:
>
>> Hi Don,
>>
>> This is what I'm currently doing. I need an additional RS232 output in
>> addition to the connection to the PC for an external device that needs to
>> track the vfo frequency of the KX3. I'd like to have the PC able to track
>> what frequency/control what frequency my radio is tuned to, and at the same
>> time have my external device also tracking the frequency the KX3 is tuned
>> to. I apologize for being less than clear. :)
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time?

[tomb18]

HiYou should check out win3k3 suite. It does exactly what you 
wish.Tomva2fsq.com 


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
 Original message From: David Orman  
Date: 2017-01-19  10:53 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: donw...@embarqmail.com Cc: Elecraft 
Reflector  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Any ideas on how 
to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time? 
Hi Don,

This is what I'm currently doing. I need an additional RS232 output in
addition to the connection to the PC for an external device that needs to
track the vfo frequency of the KX3. I'd like to have the PC able to track
what frequency/control what frequency my radio is tuned to, and at the same
time have my external device also tracking the frequency the KX3 is tuned
to. I apologize for being less than clear. :)

David

On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:

> David,
>
> The solution for the KX3 and KXPA100 is greatly simplified if you use the
> KX3 to KXPA100 adapter cable.
> You connect the KXPA100 to the personal computer and the adapter cable
> splits out the RS-232 signalling to the KX3.  See the connections on page
> 14 of the KXPA100 manual.  The KX3USB cable connects between the KXPA100
> and the PC.
>
> No MAGIC BOX needed.
>
> The PX3 does not have to be continuously connected to the computer.  For
> firmware updates, Configuration Save and Restore, you can connect a KX3USB
> cable and run the PX3 Utility for those operations (those are done off-line
> and not real-time).
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
>
>
> On 1/19/2017 7:19 PM, David Orman wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'd like to have serial output via db9 and also usb at the same time with
>> my KX3. Is this something possible? ie: have the cable run from my
>> KXPA100(I have a KX3/KXPA100/PX3 trio) to some sort of external box with a
>> DB9connector using the KXSER option, and that box would have a second
>> DB9port (or cable running from it) so I could connect something else that
>> needed serial access, in addition to a USB port (or another serial port) I
>> could use to connect to my PC.
>>
>> I need something that ends up like this:
>>
>> KX3/KXPA100/PX3 (firmware updates/backups/computer control) -> MAGIC BOX
>> MAGIC BOX -> another accessory via DB9/serial
>> MAGIC BOX -> computer via USB ideally, or via serial with an adapter for
>> USB for the computer
>>
>>
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Re: [Elecraft] Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time?

[Don Wilhelm]

David,

The LP-Bridge application has an output that you can set up which will 
send some information to another serial port on the computer.  See the 
LP-Bridge documentation at www.telepostinc.com.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/19/2017 10:53 PM, David Orman wrote:

Hi Don,

This is what I'm currently doing. I need an additional RS232 output in 
addition to the connection to the PC for an external device that needs 
to track the vfo frequency of the KX3. I'd like to have the PC able to 
track what frequency/control what frequency my radio is tuned to, and 
at the same time have my external device also tracking the frequency 
the KX3 is tuned to. I apologize for being less than clear. :)


David



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Re: [Elecraft] Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time?

[David Orman]

Hi Don,

This is what I'm currently doing. I need an additional RS232 output in
addition to the connection to the PC for an external device that needs to
track the vfo frequency of the KX3. I'd like to have the PC able to track
what frequency/control what frequency my radio is tuned to, and at the same
time have my external device also tracking the frequency the KX3 is tuned
to. I apologize for being less than clear. :)

David

On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:

> David,
>
> The solution for the KX3 and KXPA100 is greatly simplified if you use the
> KX3 to KXPA100 adapter cable.
> You connect the KXPA100 to the personal computer and the adapter cable
> splits out the RS-232 signalling to the KX3.  See the connections on page
> 14 of the KXPA100 manual.  The KX3USB cable connects between the KXPA100
> and the PC.
>
> No MAGIC BOX needed.
>
> The PX3 does not have to be continuously connected to the computer.  For
> firmware updates, Configuration Save and Restore, you can connect a KX3USB
> cable and run the PX3 Utility for those operations (those are done off-line
> and not real-time).
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
>
>
> On 1/19/2017 7:19 PM, David Orman wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'd like to have serial output via db9 and also usb at the same time with
>> my KX3. Is this something possible? ie: have the cable run from my
>> KXPA100(I have a KX3/KXPA100/PX3 trio) to some sort of external box with a
>> DB9connector using the KXSER option, and that box would have a second
>> DB9port (or cable running from it) so I could connect something else that
>> needed serial access, in addition to a USB port (or another serial port) I
>> could use to connect to my PC.
>>
>> I need something that ends up like this:
>>
>> KX3/KXPA100/PX3 (firmware updates/backups/computer control) -> MAGIC BOX
>> MAGIC BOX -> another accessory via DB9/serial
>> MAGIC BOX -> computer via USB ideally, or via serial with an adapter for
>> USB for the computer
>>
>>
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Re: [Elecraft] Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time?

[Don Wilhelm]

David,

The solution for the KX3 and KXPA100 is greatly simplified if you use 
the KX3 to KXPA100 adapter cable.
You connect the KXPA100 to the personal computer and the adapter cable 
splits out the RS-232 signalling to the KX3.  See the connections on 
page 14 of the KXPA100 manual.  The KX3USB cable connects between the 
KXPA100 and the PC.


No MAGIC BOX needed.

The PX3 does not have to be continuously connected to the computer.  For 
firmware updates, Configuration Save and Restore, you can connect a 
KX3USB cable and run the PX3 Utility for those operations (those are 
done off-line and not real-time).


73,
Don W3FPR



On 1/19/2017 7:19 PM, David Orman wrote:

Hi,

I'd like to have serial output via db9 and also usb at the same time with
my KX3. Is this something possible? ie: have the cable run from my
KXPA100(I have a KX3/KXPA100/PX3 trio) to some sort of external box with a
DB9connector using the KXSER option, and that box would have a second
DB9port (or cable running from it) so I could connect something else that
needed serial access, in addition to a USB port (or another serial port) I
could use to connect to my PC.

I need something that ends up like this:

KX3/KXPA100/PX3 (firmware updates/backups/computer control) -> MAGIC BOX
MAGIC BOX -> another accessory via DB9/serial
MAGIC BOX -> computer via USB ideally, or via serial with an adapter for
USB for the computer


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Re: [Elecraft] Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time?

[Harry Yingst via Elecraft]

Do a google search for LP-Bridge

  From: David Orman 
 To: Elecraft Reflector  
 Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 7:19 PM
 Subject: [Elecraft] Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the 
same time?
   
Hi,

I'd like to have serial output via db9 and also usb at the same time with
my KX3. Is this something possible? ie: have the cable run from my
KXPA100(I have a KX3/KXPA100/PX3 trio) to some sort of external box with a
DB9connector using the KXSER option, and that box would have a second
DB9port (or cable running from it) so I could connect something else that
needed serial access, in addition to a USB port (or another serial port) I
could use to connect to my PC.

I need something that ends up like this:

KX3/KXPA100/PX3 (firmware updates/backups/computer control) -> MAGIC BOX
MAGIC BOX -> another accessory via DB9/serial
MAGIC BOX -> computer via USB ideally, or via serial with an adapter for
USB for the computer

I'm not having a whole lot of luck searching Google for something of this
nature, so I'm looking for suggestions (open to completely different
solutions).

Thank you,
David
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[Elecraft] Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time?

[David Orman]

Hi,

I'd like to have serial output via db9 and also usb at the same time with
my KX3. Is this something possible? ie: have the cable run from my
KXPA100(I have a KX3/KXPA100/PX3 trio) to some sort of external box with a
DB9connector using the KXSER option, and that box would have a second
DB9port (or cable running from it) so I could connect something else that
needed serial access, in addition to a USB port (or another serial port) I
could use to connect to my PC.

I need something that ends up like this:

KX3/KXPA100/PX3 (firmware updates/backups/computer control) -> MAGIC BOX
MAGIC BOX -> another accessory via DB9/serial
MAGIC BOX -> computer via USB ideally, or via serial with an adapter for
USB for the computer

I'm not having a whole lot of luck searching Google for something of this
nature, so I'm looking for suggestions (open to completely different
solutions).

Thank you,
David
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