Re: [Elecraft] "Bat Err" on KX3 - follow-up

2018-04-01 Thread Jim Brown 

On 4/1/2018 10:33 AM, Nr4c wrote:

Drop in 8 “Copper Tops” and enjoy the radio today!


Yep. The KX3 is also highly compatible with external battery packs, 
something as simple as six AAs in a holder that plugs into the power jack.


LiFePO4 packs sold by Bioennopower have also become quite popular. They 
come in a wide range of sizes/capacities, and are much lighter weight 
for the capacity they provide. For all day 100w operationat a rare 
mountaintop 6M grid that is in deep shade and requires a 3 mile hike up 
a 1,000 ft trail, several of us have bought 20Ah batteries, cost about 
$200 and weighs 5.5#. Much smaller packs are available. A 3 Ah pack 
costs $50 and weighs 13 oz.


Remember that the KX3 draws less current for the same power output when 
run from a higher DC voltage, and LiFePO4 batteries provide 13-14V for 
most of their discharge curve.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] "Bat Err" on KX3 - follow-up

2018-04-01 Thread rich hurd WC3T 
Just don't turn the charger on.  ;)

On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 13:33 Nr4c  wrote:

> Drop in 8 “Copper Tops” and enjoy the radio today!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ...nr4c. bill
>
>
> > On Apr 1, 2018, at 1:16 PM, Dauer, Edward  wrote:
> >
> > Several replies suggested I check the voltage of the NiMH batteries as a
> first step.  Did so this morning, with an interesting result.   Of the
> eight (all are 2700 mAh Powerex NiMH 1.2 v nominal), the mean voltage was
> less than a half volt (0.45 VDC); the median and mode were each less than
> one tenth of a volt (0.06 VDC.)  The best of them was only 1.23 and 5 of
> them were at 0.06 VDC or a bit less.  So much for advertised shelf life.
> Seems that the KX3 draws some trickle current even when turned off.
> >
> > It might be they could be resuscitated with another charger, but Don
> Wilhelm wisely cautions against it.  With this deep a discharge, the
> charging current could be excessive without having a constant-current
> lab-type charger, which I don’t have.  Best to just replace the whole
> bunch.
> >
> > Of course I would learn this on Easter morning, when there are none for
> sale anywhere nearby.
> >
> > If replacing all eight doesn’t fix the error message I’ll post again
> with another plea for ideas.  Thanks, all, for the advice; have a great
> holiday weekend.
> >
> > Ted, KN1CBR
> >
> > __
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> > Message delivered to n...@widomaker.com Ù]™\˜[  ™\  Y\È ÝYÙÙ\Ý Y  H Ú
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>
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PA Army MARS, Northampton County RACES, EPA-ARRL Public Information Officer
for Scouting
Latitude: 40.761621 Longitude: -75.288988  (40°45.68' N 75°17.33' W) Grid:
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Re: [Elecraft] "Bat Err" on KX3 - follow-up

2018-04-01 Thread Nr4c 
Drop in 8 “Copper Tops” and enjoy the radio today!

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Apr 1, 2018, at 1:16 PM, Dauer, Edward  wrote:
> 
> Several replies suggested I check the voltage of the NiMH batteries as a 
> first step.  Did so this morning, with an interesting result.   Of the eight 
> (all are 2700 mAh Powerex NiMH 1.2 v nominal), the mean voltage was less than 
> a half volt (0.45 VDC); the median and mode were each less than one tenth of 
> a volt (0.06 VDC.)  The best of them was only 1.23 and 5 of them were at 0.06 
> VDC or a bit less.  So much for advertised shelf life.  Seems that the KX3 
> draws some trickle current even when turned off.
> 
> It might be they could be resuscitated with another charger, but Don Wilhelm 
> wisely cautions against it.  With this deep a discharge, the charging current 
> could be excessive without having a constant-current lab-type charger, which 
> I don’t have.  Best to just replace the whole bunch.
> 
> Of course I would learn this on Easter morning, when there are none for sale 
> anywhere nearby.
> 
> If replacing all eight doesn’t fix the error message I’ll post again with 
> another plea for ideas.  Thanks, all, for the advice; have a great holiday 
> weekend.
> 
> Ted, KN1CBR
> 
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to 
> n...@widomaker.comÙ]™\˜[™\Y\ÈÝYÙÙ\ÝYHÚXÚÈH›ÛYÙHÙˆHšSR˜]\šY\È\ÈHš\œÝÝ\ˆYÛÈ\È[Ü›š[™ËÚ][ˆ[\™\Ý[™È™\Ý[ˆÙˆHZYÚ
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>  
> &]]™Kˆ™\Ýȝ\Ý™\XÙHHÚÛH[˜ÚƒBƒB“ÙˆÛÝ\œÙHHÛÝ[X\›ˆ\ÈÛˆX\Ý\ˆ[Ü›š[™ËÚ[ˆ\™H\™H›Û™H›ÜˆØ[H[ž]Ú\™H™X\˜žKƒBƒB’Yˆ™\XÚ[™È[ZYÚÙ\Û¸
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[Elecraft] "Bat Err" on KX3 - follow-up

2018-04-01 Thread Dauer, Edward 
Several replies suggested I check the voltage of the NiMH batteries as a first 
step.  Did so this morning, with an interesting result.   Of the eight (all are 
2700 mAh Powerex NiMH 1.2 v nominal), the mean voltage was less than a half 
volt (0.45 VDC); the median and mode were each less than one tenth of a volt 
(0.06 VDC.)  The best of them was only 1.23 and 5 of them were at 0.06 VDC or a 
bit less.  So much for advertised shelf life.  Seems that the KX3 draws some 
trickle current even when turned off.

It might be they could be resuscitated with another charger, but Don Wilhelm 
wisely cautions against it.  With this deep a discharge, the charging current 
could be excessive without having a constant-current lab-type charger, which I 
don’t have.  Best to just replace the whole bunch.

Of course I would learn this on Easter morning, when there are none for sale 
anywhere nearby.

If replacing all eight doesn’t fix the error message I’ll post again with 
another plea for ideas.  Thanks, all, for the advice; have a great holiday 
weekend.

Ted, KN1CBR

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Re: [Elecraft] Bat Err in KX3

2018-03-31 Thread Don Wilhelm 

Ted,

The battery voltage was too low to start charging without possible 
damage.  Yes, NiMH batteries will self-discharge to the point of not 
being able to recover them.  Keep them charged, or you can loose them.
The KX3 internal charger requires a certain minimum voltage before it 
can start charging.  Bat Err is the indication that charging cannot start.


You might be able to remove the batteries and charge them using a 
different charger, but be aware that if they are deeply discharged, they 
may overheat during the process and destroy their future lifetime.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/31/2018 7:36 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote:

My KX3 has been sitting idle for many months.  Turned it on today and tried to charge the battery, 
which I am guessing is depleted to zero, but I keep getting "Bat Err."  Yes, there is a 
rechargeable battery installed - it has worked just fine for years.  And yes, I did RTFM, about 
accessing the menu and the steps for readying the rig for charging (page 23, as I recall).  But 
that doesn't do it.  No matter what charge time I select, I get the same error message when I exit 
the menu.  "Bat Err."  Any ideas?  Could the batteries have died from having been ignored 
for so long?

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Re: [Elecraft] Bat Err in KX3

2018-03-31 Thread rich hurd WC3T 
I had Eneloops do this to me too.   :(

On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 20:55 Mark Petiford via Elecraft <
elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote:

>  Re:  "Could the batteries have died from having been ignored for so long?"
>
> Although I have never experienced this with quality Low Self Discharge
> (LSD) NiMH cells, it may have happened.  I have experienced this with
> non-LSD NiMH cells, and they just aren't worth the time and effort to use.
>
> I suggest you remove the cells and check the voltage across each one
> individually using a voltmeter.  Any cell that has dropped below 1 volt has
> most likely been damaged and should not be reused.  If any of the cells are
> below 1 volt, it may be best to replace all 8 cells and save yourself later
> frustration.
>
> Using old cells intermixed with new cells isn't really good practice since
> their capacities will differ. That results in reverse charging of the old
> cells as the set of cells is depleted, causing quick failure of the
> remaining old cells.  It just isn't worth messing with.
>
> Just as a data point, I just now powered my KX3 up after it had been
> tucked away in my backpack for over a year since they were last recharged.
> The voltage as indicated by the KX3 display was 9.9 volts, which is about
> 1.2 volts per cell, the nominal voltage for NiMH cells.  They are Eneloop
> 2000 cells and are over 5 years old.  I suspect that their capacity has
> decreased and their voltage will drop quickly when I transmit.   Probably
> time for me to get a fresh set of Eneloops.
>
> Mark
> KE6BB
>
>  On Saturday, March 31, 2018, 4:38:36 PM PDT, Dauer, Edward <
> eda...@law.du.edu> wrote:
>
>  My KX3 has been sitting idle for many months...
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PA Army MARS, Northampton County RACES, EPA-ARRL Public Information Officer
for Scouting
Latitude: 40.761621 Longitude: -75.288988  (40°45.68' N 75°17.33' W) Grid:
*FN20is*
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Re: [Elecraft] Bat Err in KX3

2018-03-31 Thread Mark Petiford via Elecraft 
 Re:  "Could the batteries have died from having been ignored for so long?"

Although I have never experienced this with quality Low Self Discharge (LSD) 
NiMH cells, it may have happened.  I have experienced this with non-LSD NiMH 
cells, and they just aren't worth the time and effort to use.

I suggest you remove the cells and check the voltage across each one 
individually using a voltmeter.  Any cell that has dropped below 1 volt has 
most likely been damaged and should not be reused.  If any of the cells are 
below 1 volt, it may be best to replace all 8 cells and save yourself later 
frustration.

Using old cells intermixed with new cells isn't really good practice since 
their capacities will differ. That results in reverse charging of the old cells 
as the set of cells is depleted, causing quick failure of the remaining old 
cells.  It just isn't worth messing with.

Just as a data point, I just now powered my KX3 up after it had been tucked 
away in my backpack for over a year since they were last recharged.  The 
voltage as indicated by the KX3 display was 9.9 volts, which is about 1.2 volts 
per cell, the nominal voltage for NiMH cells.  They are Eneloop 2000 cells and 
are over 5 years old.  I suspect that their capacity has decreased and their 
voltage will drop quickly when I transmit.   Probably time for me to get a 
fresh set of Eneloops.

Mark
KE6BB   

 On Saturday, March 31, 2018, 4:38:36 PM PDT, Dauer, Edward  
wrote:  
 
 My KX3 has been sitting idle for many months...  
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Re: [Elecraft] Bat Err in KX3

2018-03-31 Thread rich hurd WC3T 
I had NiMH batteries expire on me from disuse.  From my POV it's possible.

On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 19:36 Dauer, Edward  wrote:

> My KX3 has been sitting idle for many months.  Turned it on today and
> tried to charge the battery, which I am guessing is depleted to zero, but I
> keep getting "Bat Err."  Yes, there is a rechargeable battery installed -
> it has worked just fine for years.  And yes, I did RTFM, about accessing
> the menu and the steps for readying the rig for charging (page 23, as I
> recall).  But that doesn't do it.  No matter what charge time I select, I
> get the same error message when I exit the menu.  "Bat Err."  Any ideas?
> Could the batteries have died from having been ignored for so long?
>
> Ted, KN1CBR
> __
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>
-- 
72,
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PA Army MARS, Northampton County RACES, EPA-ARRL Public Information Officer
for Scouting
Latitude: 40.761621 Longitude: -75.288988  (40°45.68' N 75°17.33' W) Grid:
*FN20is*
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[Elecraft] Bat Err in KX3

2018-03-31 Thread Dauer, Edward 
My KX3 has been sitting idle for many months.  Turned it on today and tried to 
charge the battery, which I am guessing is depleted to zero, but I keep getting 
"Bat Err."  Yes, there is a rechargeable battery installed - it has worked just 
fine for years.  And yes, I did RTFM, about accessing the menu and the steps 
for readying the rig for charging (page 23, as I recall).  But that doesn't do 
it.  No matter what charge time I select, I get the same error message when I 
exit the menu.  "Bat Err."  Any ideas?  Could the batteries have died from 
having been ignored for so long?

Ted, KN1CBR
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