Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[Ted Edwards W3TB]

Years ago in grad school I strung antenna of 22 gauge green enameled bell
wire, and it was so hard to see that I would go outside and look up to see
it against the sky to check it before operating.   Even I couldn't see
it... only ran 150 watts on it.

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 15:42 Fred Jensen  wrote:

> Indeed!  Apollo 11 landed close to 2 km downrange from the center of the
> planned landing footprint.  This was the result of a lunar gravitational
> potential model that didn't exactly match the real world.  No one
> screwed up, the computer worked correctly, the potential model was fine
> except that it possibly applied to some other moon in the solar system,
> of which there are many, just not to ours.
>
> NEC-2 [e.g. EZNEC] is a good model but one has to be knowledgeable of
> its limitations.  It can, for example, return wildly wrong source
> impedance values if the source is connected to the end of a wire.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred ("Skip") K6DGW
> Sparks NV USA
> Washoe County DM09dn
>
> On 5/20/2017 10:18 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> >
> > Brown's first law -- "if you think there's a difference between theory
> > and practice, you don't know enough about one or the other."
>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to w3tb@gmail.com
>
-- 
73 de Ted Edwards, W3TB and GØPWW

and thinking about operating CW:
"Do today what others won't,
so you can do tomorrow what others can't."
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[Fred Jensen]

Indeed!  Apollo 11 landed close to 2 km downrange from the center of the 
planned landing footprint.  This was the result of a lunar gravitational 
potential model that didn't exactly match the real world.  No one 
screwed up, the computer worked correctly, the potential model was fine 
except that it possibly applied to some other moon in the solar system, 
of which there are many, just not to ours.


NEC-2 [e.g. EZNEC] is a good model but one has to be knowledgeable of 
its limitations.  It can, for example, return wildly wrong source 
impedance values if the source is connected to the end of a wire.


73,

Fred ("Skip") K6DGW
Sparks NV USA
Washoe County DM09dn

On 5/20/2017 10:18 PM, Jim Brown wrote:


Brown's first law -- "if you think there's a difference between theory 
and practice, you don't know enough about one or the other."


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[Ted Edwards W3TB]

I really appreciate the answers to my question about further disguising the
Hex from neighbors -- thanks for those.

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 7:59 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:

> On 5/21/2017 12:45 AM, Vic Rosenthal wrote:
>
>> The TH11DXX that G3TXQ compares to the Hexbeam has at least 3 elements on
>> each band and is a modern design, no traps.
>>
> The TH11 has driven elements for 12, 17, 15, 12 and 10 (2) with
> reflectors for 20 and 17 and trapped directors for 10, 15 and 20.
> Element spacing is nowhere near optimum and, other than the DE,
> any 12 meter performance is nearly accidental.
>
> If someone found that the C3 (2 el on each band) outperformed it, I
>> would be very suspicious that something was wrong with the sample
>> tested.
>>
> You are welcome to argue with K7LXC/N0AX but their testing protocol
> is well documented and they do not indicate any abnormal behavior
> in the tested TH11 where they do note issues with other antennas.
>
> 73,
>
>... Joe, W4TV
>
>
>
> On 5/21/2017 12:45 AM, Vic Rosenthal wrote:
>
>> The TH11DXX that G3TXQ compares to the Hexbeam has at least 3 elements on
>> each band and is a modern design, no traps. If someone found that the C3 (2
>> el on each band) outperformed it, I would be very suspicious that something
>> was wrong with the sample tested.
>> I did look at the wrong picture and you are correct that the XR5 is 9
>> elements.
>>
>> Vic 4X6GP
>>
>> On 20 May 2017, at 23:28, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Why do you think it will "significantly outperform the hex beams?"

>>>
>>> Based on the performance data (K7LXC/N0AX) for the original Force 12
>>> C3 and TH11 with comparisons of the broadband Hexbeam and the TH11.
>>> The K7LXC/N0AX field data shows the C3 outperforming the TH11 while
>>> G3TXQ's web page 
>>> shows the TH11 with approximately 3 dB advantage over the broadband
>>> hexbeam.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't say an 11 element yagi with capacity hats on the elements
 has an especially low visual profile!

>>>
>>> Neither the XR5 nor the Navassa 5 has 11 elements *or* capacity hats.
>>> The XR5 is a 9-element antenna and the Navassa 5 has 10 elements as
>>> documented in the two links I provided.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>>... Joe, W4TV
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/20/2017 3:34 PM, Vic Rosenthal wrote:
 Why do you think it will "significantly outperform the hex beams?"
 The point about uv is well taken re fiberglass, but I don't know what
 the cords on all the hexbeam versions are made of. There are uv resistant
 materials available.
 I wouldn't say an 11 element yagi with capacity hats on the elements
 has an especially low visual profile!

 Vic 4X6GP

 On 20 May 2017, at 19:36, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:
>
> On 5/20/2017 11:32 AM, Terry Brown wrote:
>
>> These beams are not cheap,  I don't want to be taking the beam down
>> and replacing main structural components every 5 yrs.
>>
>> Can anyone with a hex beam comment on this?
>>
>
> Your concerns are well placed with antennas made of fiberglass and
> dacron/kevlar cords.
>
> Instead of a hexbeam, I would recommend looking at the Innovantennas
> XR5T:  /view/productdetails/virtuemart_product_id/435/virtuemart_
> category_id/55.html>,
> or the JK Antennas Navassa 5:
> 
>
> Both have boom lengths of 12 feet or less, cover 20 - 10 meters and
> have optional 6 meter add-ons.  Either should significantly out
> perform the hex beams and - since they are aluminum antennas that do
> not use UV sensitive fiberglass, kevlar and dacron components - should
> significantly outlast the hexbeam with significantly less maintenance.
>
> 73,
>
>   ... Joe, W4TV
>
>>
>>

>> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to w3tb@gmail.com
>



-- 
73 de Ted Edwards, W3TB and GØPWW

and thinking about operating CW:
"Do today what others won't,
so you can do tomorrow what others can't."
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

On 5/21/2017 12:45 AM, Vic Rosenthal wrote:
The TH11DXX that G3TXQ compares to the Hexbeam has at least 3 
elements on each band and is a modern design, no traps.

The TH11 has driven elements for 12, 17, 15, 12 and 10 (2) with
reflectors for 20 and 17 and trapped directors for 10, 15 and 20.
Element spacing is nowhere near optimum and, other than the DE,
any 12 meter performance is nearly accidental.


If someone found that the C3 (2 el on each band) outperformed it, I
would be very suspicious that something was wrong with the sample
tested.

You are welcome to argue with K7LXC/N0AX but their testing protocol
is well documented and they do not indicate any abnormal behavior
in the tested TH11 where they do note issues with other antennas.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 5/21/2017 12:45 AM, Vic Rosenthal wrote:

The TH11DXX that G3TXQ compares to the Hexbeam has at least 3 elements on each 
band and is a modern design, no traps. If someone found that the C3 (2 el on 
each band) outperformed it, I would be very suspicious that something was wrong 
with the sample tested.
I did look at the wrong picture and you are correct that the XR5 is 9 elements.

Vic 4X6GP


On 20 May 2017, at 23:28, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:



Why do you think it will "significantly outperform the hex beams?"


Based on the performance data (K7LXC/N0AX) for the original Force 12
C3 and TH11 with comparisons of the broadband Hexbeam and the TH11.
The K7LXC/N0AX field data shows the C3 outperforming the TH11 while
G3TXQ's web page 
shows the TH11 with approximately 3 dB advantage over the broadband
hexbeam.


I wouldn't say an 11 element yagi with capacity hats on the elements
has an especially low visual profile!


Neither the XR5 nor the Navassa 5 has 11 elements *or* capacity hats.
The XR5 is a 9-element antenna and the Navassa 5 has 10 elements as
documented in the two links I provided.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV



On 5/20/2017 3:34 PM, Vic Rosenthal wrote:
Why do you think it will "significantly outperform the hex beams?"
The point about uv is well taken re fiberglass, but I don't know what the cords 
on all the hexbeam versions are made of. There are uv resistant materials 
available.
I wouldn't say an 11 element yagi with capacity hats on the elements has an 
especially low visual profile!

Vic 4X6GP


On 20 May 2017, at 19:36, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:

On 5/20/2017 11:32 AM, Terry Brown wrote:

These beams are not cheap,  I don't want to be taking the beam down
and replacing main structural components every 5 yrs.

Can anyone with a hex beam comment on this?


Your concerns are well placed with antennas made of fiberglass and
dacron/kevlar cords.

Instead of a hexbeam, I would recommend looking at the Innovantennas
XR5T: 
,
or the JK Antennas Navassa 5:


Both have boom lengths of 12 feet or less, cover 20 - 10 meters and
have optional 6 meter add-ons.  Either should significantly out
perform the hex beams and - since they are aluminum antennas that do
not use UV sensitive fiberglass, kevlar and dacron components - should
significantly outlast the hexbeam with significantly less maintenance.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV







__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[Jim Brown]

On Sat,5/20/2017 9:14 PM, Igor Sokolov wrote:
Reality sometimes differ from calculations. 


When that happens, the person doing the calculating has not correctly 
formed the equation to define the problem, or doesn't know how to 
calculate. :)


I've done a lot of modeling using NEC, and every antenna I've built has 
performed as the calculations predicted -- unless I screwed up the 
model. Likewise, in my professional life, I did a lot of careful 
modeling of sound systems I designed, and when I got the model right and 
built what I modeled, the system worked as predicted.


Brown's first law -- "if you think there's a difference between theory 
and practice, you don't know enough about one or the other." In other 
words, there were variables that you didn't consider or know about, like 
terrain, ground conductivity, mounting height, propagation, loss in 
matching or coupling methods, loss in traps, etc.


73, Jim K9YC

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[Vic Rosenthal]

The TH11DXX that G3TXQ compares to the Hexbeam has at least 3 elements on each 
band and is a modern design, no traps. If someone found that the C3 (2 el on 
each band) outperformed it, I would be very suspicious that something was wrong 
with the sample tested.
I did look at the wrong picture and you are correct that the XR5 is 9 elements.

Vic 4X6GP 

> On 20 May 2017, at 23:28, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:
> 
> 
> > Why do you think it will "significantly outperform the hex beams?"
> 
> Based on the performance data (K7LXC/N0AX) for the original Force 12
> C3 and TH11 with comparisons of the broadband Hexbeam and the TH11.
> The K7LXC/N0AX field data shows the C3 outperforming the TH11 while
> G3TXQ's web page 
> shows the TH11 with approximately 3 dB advantage over the broadband
> hexbeam.
> 
>> I wouldn't say an 11 element yagi with capacity hats on the elements
> > has an especially low visual profile!
> 
> Neither the XR5 nor the Navassa 5 has 11 elements *or* capacity hats.
> The XR5 is a 9-element antenna and the Navassa 5 has 10 elements as
> documented in the two links I provided.
> 
> 73,
> 
>   ... Joe, W4TV
> 
> 
>> On 5/20/2017 3:34 PM, Vic Rosenthal wrote:
>> Why do you think it will "significantly outperform the hex beams?"
>> The point about uv is well taken re fiberglass, but I don't know what the 
>> cords on all the hexbeam versions are made of. There are uv resistant 
>> materials available.
>> I wouldn't say an 11 element yagi with capacity hats on the elements has an 
>> especially low visual profile!
>> 
>> Vic 4X6GP
>> 
>>> On 20 May 2017, at 19:36, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 5/20/2017 11:32 AM, Terry Brown wrote:
 These beams are not cheap,  I don't want to be taking the beam down
 and replacing main structural components every 5 yrs.
 
 Can anyone with a hex beam comment on this?
>>> 
>>> Your concerns are well placed with antennas made of fiberglass and
>>> dacron/kevlar cords.
>>> 
>>> Instead of a hexbeam, I would recommend looking at the Innovantennas
>>> XR5T: 
>>> ,
>>> or the JK Antennas Navassa 5:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Both have boom lengths of 12 feet or less, cover 20 - 10 meters and
>>> have optional 6 meter add-ons.  Either should significantly out
>>> perform the hex beams and - since they are aluminum antennas that do
>>> not use UV sensitive fiberglass, kevlar and dacron components - should
>>> significantly outlast the hexbeam with significantly less maintenance.
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> 
>>>  ... Joe, W4TV
 
>> 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[Igor Sokolov]

Please disregard my message below. XR5-T with cap hats is called XR6. 
And Joe is talking about XR5-T.


I apologize for my mistake.

73, Igor UA9CDC



21.05.2017 9:27, Igor Sokolov пишет:



21.05.2017 1:28, Joe Subich, W4TV пишет:




Neither the XR5 nor the Navassa 5 has 11 elements *or* capacity hats.
The XR5 is a 9-element antenna and the Navassa 5 has 10 elements as
documented in the two links I provided.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV




Here is what can be found on the page of Innovantennas " The XR5, 
comes with a capacity loaded 20m element Option (XR6-TC which reduces 
the longest element from 11.6m to 8.9m) and reduced turning radius too!"
It just clever marketing. The first 2 pictures on that page are 
probably of the original XR5 (not the reduced size XR5-T). The 3rd 
picture is the actual XR5-T and capacity hats are pretty visible.


73, Igor UA9CDC


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[Igor Sokolov]

21.05.2017 1:28, Joe Subich, W4TV пишет:




Neither the XR5 nor the Navassa 5 has 11 elements *or* capacity hats.
The XR5 is a 9-element antenna and the Navassa 5 has 10 elements as
documented in the two links I provided.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV




Here is what can be found on the page of Innovantennas " The XR5, comes 
with a capacity loaded 20m element Option (XR6-TC which reduces the 
longest element from 11.6m to 8.9m) and reduced turning radius too!"
It just clever marketing. The first 2 pictures on that page are probably 
of the original XR5 (not the reduced size XR5-T). The 3rd picture is the 
actual XR5-T and capacity hats are pretty visible.


73, Igor UA9CDC
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[Igor Sokolov]

Joe,

Reality sometimes differ from calculations.

XR5T has shortened 20m elements and pretty poor F/B as compared to Hex. 
Last year we were operating in WPX contest from Madeira, CT9 and had 2 
antennas up on 15m band. One was 4 el Op-Des 15m full size monobander 
from Innovantennas. Another one was Hex. Both installed at the same 
height of 10m above the ground. We were surprised to find out that Hex 
had been always outperforming 4el Innov into Eu and the USA. so we ended 
up using only Hex.


Besides XR5 is 3 times heavier them Hex and much more visible (let it's 
price alone).


BTW is somebody wants a pair of these 4el 15m full size monoband 
Innovantennas, they are for sale, stored in Madeira, and we are selling 
them for 50% of their original price.


Fiberglass spreaders of our Hex are coming from Maxgain and UV 
resistant. So are wires and ropes. All bolts and nuts are made of 
stainless steel.



73, Igor UA9CDC


20.05.2017 21:36, Joe Subich, W4TV пишет:

On 5/20/2017 11:32 AM, Terry Brown wrote:
> These beams are not cheap,  I don't want to be taking the beam down
> and replacing main structural components every 5 yrs.
>
> Can anyone with a hex beam comment on this?

Your concerns are well placed with antennas made of fiberglass and
dacron/kevlar cords.

Instead of a hexbeam, I would recommend looking at the Innovantennas
XR5T: 
, 


or the JK Antennas Navassa 5:


Both have boom lengths of 12 feet or less, cover 20 - 10 meters and
have optional 6 meter add-ons.  Either should significantly out
perform the hex beams and - since they are aluminum antennas that do
not use UV sensitive fiberglass, kevlar and dacron components - should
significantly outlast the hexbeam with significantly less maintenance.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 5/20/2017 11:32 AM, Terry Brown wrote:

I really appreciate all the comments.  I do have a follow up
question:

An aluminum beam can be left up for years. I was reading one review
of a particular hex beam and the poster said that after 4 years,  the
cords holding the beam together had become brittle and started to
fail from UV exposure and the main support members had deteriorated
for same reason.

These beams are not cheap,  I don't want to be taking the beam down
and replacing main structural components every 5 yrs.

Can anyone with a hex beam comment on this?

Thanks, Terry


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to ua9...@gmail.com
.



__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> Why do you think it will "significantly outperform the hex beams?"

Based on the performance data (K7LXC/N0AX) for the original Force 12
C3 and TH11 with comparisons of the broadband Hexbeam and the TH11.
The K7LXC/N0AX field data shows the C3 outperforming the TH11 while
G3TXQ's web page 
shows the TH11 with approximately 3 dB advantage over the broadband
hexbeam.


I wouldn't say an 11 element yagi with capacity hats on the elements

> has an especially low visual profile!

Neither the XR5 nor the Navassa 5 has 11 elements *or* capacity hats.
The XR5 is a 9-element antenna and the Navassa 5 has 10 elements as
documented in the two links I provided.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 5/20/2017 3:34 PM, Vic Rosenthal wrote:

Why do you think it will "significantly outperform the hex beams?"
The point about uv is well taken re fiberglass, but I don't know what the cords 
on all the hexbeam versions are made of. There are uv resistant materials 
available.
I wouldn't say an 11 element yagi with capacity hats on the elements has an 
especially low visual profile!

Vic 4X6GP


On 20 May 2017, at 19:36, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:

On 5/20/2017 11:32 AM, Terry Brown wrote:

These beams are not cheap,  I don't want to be taking the beam down
and replacing main structural components every 5 yrs.

Can anyone with a hex beam comment on this?


Your concerns are well placed with antennas made of fiberglass and
dacron/kevlar cords.

Instead of a hexbeam, I would recommend looking at the Innovantennas
XR5T: 
,
or the JK Antennas Navassa 5:


Both have boom lengths of 12 feet or less, cover 20 - 10 meters and
have optional 6 meter add-ons.  Either should significantly out
perform the hex beams and - since they are aluminum antennas that do
not use UV sensitive fiberglass, kevlar and dacron components - should
significantly outlast the hexbeam with significantly less maintenance.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV





__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

I don't have a Hex beam, but for my wire antennas strung in the trees I use
this stuff:

https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/syn-dbr-187-500?seid=dxese1_mmc=pla-g
oogle-_-shopping-_-dxese1-_-synthetic-textile-industries=Cj0KEQjw0v_IB
RCEzKHK0KiCrKMBEiQA3--1NnAInx_Rd5SOr2M6T-EFGXAMt2kyFHAtRWJdawQOdhAaAsN58P8HA
Q

It has survived nicely holding up a wire antenna for ten years so far in
high winds, sunshine, rain, snow, and freezing weather. It's hard to imagine
that a Hex beam would put more strain on it. 

However, I am in Oregon. The rope is advertised as UV resistant but we don't
get nearly as much UV as some other areas. (Sunblock salesmen go broke
around here.) 

73, Ron AC7AC


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Vic
Rosenthal
Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2017 12:35 PM
To: Joe Subich, W4TV
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

Why do you think it will "significantly outperform the hex beams?" 
The point about uv is well taken re fiberglass, but I don't know what the
cords on all the hexbeam versions are made of. There are uv resistant
materials available.
I wouldn't say an 11 element yagi with capacity hats on the elements has an
especially low visual profile!

Vic 4X6GP 

> On 20 May 2017, at 19:36, Joe Subich, W4TV <li...@subich.com> wrote:
> 
> On 5/20/2017 11:32 AM, Terry Brown wrote:
> > These beams are not cheap,  I don't want to be taking the beam down 
> > and replacing main structural components every 5 yrs.
> >
> > Can anyone with a hex beam comment on this?
> 
> Your concerns are well placed with antennas made of fiberglass and 
> dacron/kevlar cords.
> 
> Instead of a hexbeam, I would recommend looking at the Innovantennas
> XR5T: 
> <http://innovantennas.com/antennas-a-accesories/on-line-shop/view/prod
> uctdetails/virtuemart_product_id/435/virtuemart_category_id/55.html>,
> or the JK Antennas Navassa 5:
> <https://jkantennas.com/jk-navassa-5.html>
> 
> Both have boom lengths of 12 feet or less, cover 20 - 10 meters and 
> have optional 6 meter add-ons.  Either should significantly out 
> perform the hex beams and - since they are aluminum antennas that do 
> not use UV sensitive fiberglass, kevlar and dacron components - should 
> significantly outlast the hexbeam with significantly less maintenance.
> 
> 73,
> 
>   ... Joe, W4TV
>> 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
delivered to r...@cobi.biz

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[Vic Rosenthal]

Why do you think it will "significantly outperform the hex beams?" 
The point about uv is well taken re fiberglass, but I don't know what the cords 
on all the hexbeam versions are made of. There are uv resistant materials 
available.
I wouldn't say an 11 element yagi with capacity hats on the elements has an 
especially low visual profile!

Vic 4X6GP 

> On 20 May 2017, at 19:36, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:
> 
> On 5/20/2017 11:32 AM, Terry Brown wrote:
> > These beams are not cheap,  I don't want to be taking the beam down
> > and replacing main structural components every 5 yrs.
> >
> > Can anyone with a hex beam comment on this?
> 
> Your concerns are well placed with antennas made of fiberglass and
> dacron/kevlar cords.
> 
> Instead of a hexbeam, I would recommend looking at the Innovantennas
> XR5T: 
> ,
>  
> or the JK Antennas Navassa 5:
> 
> 
> Both have boom lengths of 12 feet or less, cover 20 - 10 meters and
> have optional 6 meter add-ons.  Either should significantly out
> perform the hex beams and - since they are aluminum antennas that do
> not use UV sensitive fiberglass, kevlar and dacron components - should
> significantly outlast the hexbeam with significantly less maintenance.
> 
> 73,
> 
>   ... Joe, W4TV
>> 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[John Nogatch]

>> ...I don't want to be taking the beam down and replacing main structural 
>> components every 5 yrs.
>> Can anyone with a hex beam comment on this?

I have had several homebrew hexbeams, which have survived weather quite well.

1. Use UV-resistant cord, e.g. 3/32" "Antenna Rope" double braided polyester.

2. Paint the fiberglass spreaders, 2 coats, e.g. black "Fusion" spray
paint, recommended for plastic lawn furniture.

3. Use a coaxial center post, i.e. aluminum rod inside aluminum tube,
so that only the stainless steel screw heads are exposed to weather.

4. Use a 90-degree fitting to attach the feedline, so that it can hang
straight down, alongside the center post.

-John AC6SL
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Any horizontally-polarized antenna needs to be at least 1/2 wavelength above
ground for optimum performance, e.g. 32 feet up on 20 meters, 16 feet up on
10 meters. 

They will work at lower heights of course, but at reduced gain as they are
lower. 

20 feet sounds like a reasonable compromise for a 14 MHz and up antenna,
especially since the actual apparent ground is usually somewhat below the
surface of the earth in most locations.

73, Ron AC7AC  

-Original Message-

I have also read they only need to be up about 20 feet high. 
Rich, n0ce

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[Phil Hystad]

I have a Traffie Hexbeam (Traffie retired and the company is no longer in 
business) and it has been up for about 12 years.  My last check of the 
elements, coaxial connection and so on showed no problems what-so-ever.  
Operating performance seems to be just as good today as when it first went up 
in 2005.  Weather has been rain (mostly), sun with high temperatures reaching 
into the 90s usually in August (one recorded day at 103 though), and snow once 
or twice a year but the snow never lasts for more than a day or two at most on 
the antenna.

I am not sure about other vendor’s versions of the Hexbeam but mine has been a 
worthy contender in the battle with weather.

By the way, the Hexbeam is visible from the Google satellite photos of my house.

73, phil, K7PEH


> On May 20, 2017, at 8:32 AM, Terry Brown <n...@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> I really appreciate all the comments.  I do have a follow up question:
> 
> An aluminum beam can be left up for years. I was reading one review of a 
> particular hex beam and the poster said that after 4 years,  the cords 
> holding the beam together had become brittle and started to fail from UV 
> exposure and the main support members had deteriorated for same reason. 
> 
> These beams are not cheap,  I don't want to be taking the beam down and 
> replacing main structural components every 5 yrs.
> 
> Can anyone with a hex beam comment on this?
> 
> Thanks, Terry
> 
>> On May 20, 2017, at 8:07 AM, Richard Fjeld <rpfj...@outlook.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I had a TA33Jr back in the 70’s when the sun cycle was good.  I had a 
>> Ten-Tec Argonaut QRP rig and worked a lot of DX with it BUT conditions were 
>> very good.  Note is was only for three bands.
>> 
>> I second what Vic is saying, though I am speaking about hex beams in 
>> general.  Hex beams are a good solution at times. I have talked to many who 
>> were using them.  Vic’s comment about ‘low profile’ can be  important. I 
>> have heard people say their neighbors were not aware it was a ham radio 
>> antenna. I have also read they only need to be up about 20 feet high. They 
>> are said to be good in the wind. (Maybe all this has been mentioned)
>> 
>> Rich, n0ce
>> 
>> From: Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP
>> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 10:49 PM
>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net; Terry Brown
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question
>> 
>> I used the K4KIO hexbeam on Field Day -- it was very easy to assemble
>> and the parts were high quality. It is also visually low-profile. I 
>> would recommend it. I don't have any experience with the TA33 Jr. but my 
>> guess is that there are a lot more things that can go wrong with all 
>> those traps.
>> 
>> The hexbeam will have gain on WARC bands as well as 10-15-20. My 
>> experience is that with conditions as they are today, 17m is VERY 
>> important (so is 30, for that matter) for DXing.
>> 
>> I have a rotatable dipole and yes, it definitely does help a lot to 
>> rotate it! But it isn't a beam.
>> 
>> 73,
>> Victor, 4X6GP
>> Rehovot, Israel
>> Formerly K2VCO
>> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>> 
>> 
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to phys...@mac.com

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

On 5/20/2017 11:32 AM, Terry Brown wrote:
> These beams are not cheap,  I don't want to be taking the beam down
> and replacing main structural components every 5 yrs.
>
> Can anyone with a hex beam comment on this?

Your concerns are well placed with antennas made of fiberglass and
dacron/kevlar cords.

Instead of a hexbeam, I would recommend looking at the Innovantennas
XR5T: 
, 


or the JK Antennas Navassa 5:


Both have boom lengths of 12 feet or less, cover 20 - 10 meters and
have optional 6 meter add-ons.  Either should significantly out
perform the hex beams and - since they are aluminum antennas that do
not use UV sensitive fiberglass, kevlar and dacron components - should
significantly outlast the hexbeam with significantly less maintenance.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 5/20/2017 11:32 AM, Terry Brown wrote:

I really appreciate all the comments.  I do have a follow up
question:

An aluminum beam can be left up for years. I was reading one review
of a particular hex beam and the poster said that after 4 years,  the
cords holding the beam together had become brittle and started to
fail from UV exposure and the main support members had deteriorated
for same reason.

These beams are not cheap,  I don't want to be taking the beam down
and replacing main structural components every 5 yrs.

Can anyone with a hex beam comment on this?

Thanks, Terry


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[Terry Brown]

I really appreciate all the comments.  I do have a follow up question:

An aluminum beam can be left up for years. I was reading one review of a 
particular hex beam and the poster said that after 4 years,  the cords holding 
the beam together had become brittle and started to fail from UV exposure and 
the main support members had deteriorated for same reason. 

These beams are not cheap,  I don't want to be taking the beam down and 
replacing main structural components every 5 yrs.

Can anyone with a hex beam comment on this?

Thanks, Terry

> On May 20, 2017, at 8:07 AM, Richard Fjeld <rpfj...@outlook.com> wrote:
> 
> I had a TA33Jr back in the 70’s when the sun cycle was good.  I had a Ten-Tec 
> Argonaut QRP rig and worked a lot of DX with it BUT conditions were very 
> good.  Note is was only for three bands.
>  
> I second what Vic is saying, though I am speaking about hex beams in general. 
>  Hex beams are a good solution at times. I have talked to many who were using 
> them.  Vic’s comment about ‘low profile’ can be  important. I have heard 
> people say their neighbors were not aware it was a ham radio antenna. I have 
> also read they only need to be up about 20 feet high. They are said to be 
> good in the wind. (Maybe all this has been mentioned)
>  
> Rich, n0ce
>  
> From: Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP
> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 10:49 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net; Terry Brown
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question
>  
> I used the K4KIO hexbeam on Field Day -- it was very easy to assemble
> and the parts were high quality. It is also visually low-profile. I 
> would recommend it. I don't have any experience with the TA33 Jr. but my 
> guess is that there are a lot more things that can go wrong with all 
> those traps.
> 
> The hexbeam will have gain on WARC bands as well as 10-15-20. My 
> experience is that with conditions as they are today, 17m is VERY 
> important (so is 30, for that matter) for DXing.
> 
> I have a rotatable dipole and yes, it definitely does help a lot to 
> rotate it! But it isn't a beam.
> 
> 73,
> Victor, 4X6GP
> Rehovot, Israel
> Formerly K2VCO
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
> 
> 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[Richard Fjeld]

I had a TA33Jr back in the 70’s when the sun cycle was good.  I had a Ten-Tec 
Argonaut QRP rig and worked a lot of DX with it BUT conditions were very good.  
Note is was only for three bands.

I second what Vic is saying, though I am speaking about hex beams in general.  
Hex beams are a good solution at times. I have talked to many who were using 
them.  Vic’s comment about ‘low profile’ can be  important. I have heard people 
say their neighbors were not aware it was a ham radio antenna. I have also read 
they only need to be up about 20 feet high. They are said to be good in the 
wind. (Maybe all this has been mentioned)

Rich, n0ce

From: Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP<mailto:k2vco@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 10:49 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net<mailto:elecraft@mailman.qth.net>; Terry 
Brown<mailto:n...@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

I used the K4KIO hexbeam on Field Day -- it was very easy to assemble
and the parts were high quality. It is also visually low-profile. I
would recommend it. I don't have any experience with the TA33 Jr. but my
guess is that there are a lot more things that can go wrong with all
those traps.

The hexbeam will have gain on WARC bands as well as 10-15-20. My
experience is that with conditions as they are today, 17m is VERY
important (so is 30, for that matter) for DXing.

I have a rotatable dipole and yes, it definitely does help a lot to
rotate it! But it isn't a beam.

73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[Benny Aumala]

Terry,

Look at the footprint of  UB20MX

http://www.ultrabeam.it/site/index.php?option=com_content=article=54=18=en

BennyOH9NB


---
Avast Antivirus on tarkistanut tämän sähköpostin virusten varalta.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[Scott Mcdonald via Elecraft]

I have that kind of neighbor hood, so I painted the spreaders grey, and the 
mast and cables grey, to match the garage and  the too  frequent midwestern 
sky, put  the mast base and rotor inside the garage,  so the hex just kinds 
blooms about 10 foot over the roof.  

With the rotor and base hidden, most people don't notice unless I point it out.

Good luck, Scott ka9p

Make something good happen!

> On May 20, 2017, at 6:42 AM, Ted Edwards W3TB  wrote:
> 
> The low visual profile is helpful to keep the neighbors from noticing.
> I wonder whether anybody has done anything else to minimize the visual
> impact even further line a non-metallic spray paint.
> Thanks ahead of time, good folks.
> 
>> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 5:33 AM, Igor Sokolov  wrote:
>> 
>> Terry,
>> 
>> As many others mentioned? Hex beam is the best choise. I have 3 of them
>> made by EU manufacturers (very good quality). And one of them (
>> www.foldinganteannas.com) is even foldable and very light weight.
>> 
>> You may also look for MW0JZE Hex. he also makes light version. Do not mess
>> with Al antennas. Hex Beam is much better and easier for portable operation.
>> 
>> 
>> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>> 
>> 
>> 20.05.2017 8:48, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP пишет:
>> 
>>> I used the K4KIO hexbeam on Field Day -- it was very easy to assemble
>>> and the parts were high quality. It is also visually low-profile. I would
>>> recommend it. I don't have any experience with the TA33 Jr. but my guess is
>>> that there are a lot more things that can go wrong with all those traps.
>>> 
>>> The hexbeam will have gain on WARC bands as well as 10-15-20. My
>>> experience is that with conditions as they are today, 17m is VERY important
>>> (so is 30, for that matter) for DXing.
>>> 
>>> I have a rotatable dipole and yes, it definitely does help a lot to
>>> rotate it! But it isn't a beam.
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> Victor, 4X6GP
>>> Rehovot, Israel
>>> Formerly K2VCO
>>> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>>> 
 On 20 May 2017 03:02, David Christ wrote:
 
 For a small footprint it is hard to beat the K4KIO hexagonal beam.  I
 have one and it works well but a better testimonial is a ham about 10
 blocks away with the same antenna and he is on DXCC Honor  Roll.
 hight is about 35 feet.  No tuner needed and all bands 20 through 10
 plus six if you want it.
 
 Just a satisfied customer
 
 David K0LUM
 
 
> On May 19, 2017, at 7:40 PM, Terry Brown  wrote:
> 
> I apologize that this is not a direct Elecraft equipment question,
> but having the K2, KX2, KX3, PX3 and KXPA100, I thought I would
> ask.  I will be moving to a new QTH.  I just took down an old
> Cushcraft ATB-34, on a 50 ft. tower.  It was the predecessor to the
> A4.  I need a beam with a smaller footprint.  I am looking at the
> Mosley TA 33-JR.My other antenna will be a multi-band doublet
> fed with 450 window line, so it will be able to work the WARC
> bands, however, the apex will only be about 25 ft. high, about
> roof level,  so it will mostly be a cloud burner, but great for my
> local CW skeds on 80 and 40.  My beam will be at 32-35 ft; 8 ft.
> above my roofline to the east.  My QTH will be high on a hill
> facing the east.  With that background, here is the question:
> 
> 
> 
> If I were to order the Mosley TA33-JR-N-WARC,  with the WARC bands
> included, even though they will have zero gain, will the ability to
> rotate the beam make the reception of the 12 and 17 meter bands
> better in all other directions than the orientation of my doublet?
> My intuition says yes, but I thought I would ask.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I know that longer length antennas for a given band usually
> perform better than a trapped antenna, but I would think that my
> low height doublet will not be as effective as a WARC beam. My
> doublet will be just at the height of my house and drop to 10 foot
> poles on the NW and SW lot corners.
> 
> 
> 
> I hated to give up my 50 ft. tower and beam, and my 80 meter
> horizontal loop at 40 ft., but sometimes compromises have to be
> made.   Being primarily a CW op will help some.
> 
> 
> 
> Any advice would be really appreciated!
> 
> 
> 
> Very 73's,
> 
> 
> 
> Terry de N7TB
> 
 __
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>> 
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to ua9...@gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: 

Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[Ted Edwards W3TB]

The low visual profile is helpful to keep the neighbors from noticing.
I wonder whether anybody has done anything else to minimize the visual
impact even further line a non-metallic spray paint.
Thanks ahead of time, good folks.

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 5:33 AM, Igor Sokolov  wrote:

> Terry,
>
> As many others mentioned? Hex beam is the best choise. I have 3 of them
> made by EU manufacturers (very good quality). And one of them (
> www.foldinganteannas.com) is even foldable and very light weight.
>
> You may also look for MW0JZE Hex. he also makes light version. Do not mess
> with Al antennas. Hex Beam is much better and easier for portable operation.
>
>
> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>
>
> 20.05.2017 8:48, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP пишет:
>
>> I used the K4KIO hexbeam on Field Day -- it was very easy to assemble
>> and the parts were high quality. It is also visually low-profile. I would
>> recommend it. I don't have any experience with the TA33 Jr. but my guess is
>> that there are a lot more things that can go wrong with all those traps.
>>
>> The hexbeam will have gain on WARC bands as well as 10-15-20. My
>> experience is that with conditions as they are today, 17m is VERY important
>> (so is 30, for that matter) for DXing.
>>
>> I have a rotatable dipole and yes, it definitely does help a lot to
>> rotate it! But it isn't a beam.
>>
>> 73,
>> Victor, 4X6GP
>> Rehovot, Israel
>> Formerly K2VCO
>> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>>
>> On 20 May 2017 03:02, David Christ wrote:
>>
>>> For a small footprint it is hard to beat the K4KIO hexagonal beam.  I
>>> have one and it works well but a better testimonial is a ham about 10
>>> blocks away with the same antenna and he is on DXCC Honor  Roll.
>>> hight is about 35 feet.  No tuner needed and all bands 20 through 10
>>> plus six if you want it.
>>>
>>> Just a satisfied customer
>>>
>>> David K0LUM
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 19, 2017, at 7:40 PM, Terry Brown  wrote:

 I apologize that this is not a direct Elecraft equipment question,
 but having the K2, KX2, KX3, PX3 and KXPA100, I thought I would
 ask.  I will be moving to a new QTH.  I just took down an old
 Cushcraft ATB-34, on a 50 ft. tower.  It was the predecessor to the
 A4.  I need a beam with a smaller footprint.  I am looking at the
 Mosley TA 33-JR.My other antenna will be a multi-band doublet
 fed with 450 window line, so it will be able to work the WARC
 bands, however, the apex will only be about 25 ft. high, about
 roof level,  so it will mostly be a cloud burner, but great for my
 local CW skeds on 80 and 40.  My beam will be at 32-35 ft; 8 ft.
 above my roofline to the east.  My QTH will be high on a hill
 facing the east.  With that background, here is the question:



 If I were to order the Mosley TA33-JR-N-WARC,  with the WARC bands
 included, even though they will have zero gain, will the ability to
 rotate the beam make the reception of the 12 and 17 meter bands
 better in all other directions than the orientation of my doublet?
 My intuition says yes, but I thought I would ask.



 Also, I know that longer length antennas for a given band usually
 perform better than a trapped antenna, but I would think that my
 low height doublet will not be as effective as a WARC beam. My
 doublet will be just at the height of my house and drop to 10 foot
 poles on the NW and SW lot corners.



 I hated to give up my 50 ft. tower and beam, and my 80 meter
 horizontal loop at 40 ft., but sometimes compromises have to be
 made.   Being primarily a CW op will help some.



 Any advice would be really appreciated!



 Very 73's,



 Terry de N7TB

>>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to ua9...@gmail.com
>>
>>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to w3tb@gmail.com
>



-- 
73 de Ted Edwards, W3TB and GØPWW

and thinking about operating CW:
"Do today what others won't,
so you can do tomorrow what others can't."
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: 

Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[Igor Sokolov]

Terry,

As many others mentioned? Hex beam is the best choise. I have 3 of them 
made by EU manufacturers (very good quality). And one of them 
(www.foldinganteannas.com) is even foldable and very light weight.


You may also look for MW0JZE Hex. he also makes light version. Do not 
mess with Al antennas. Hex Beam is much better and easier for portable 
operation.



73, Igor UA9CDC


20.05.2017 8:48, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP пишет:

I used the K4KIO hexbeam on Field Day -- it was very easy to assemble
and the parts were high quality. It is also visually low-profile. I 
would recommend it. I don't have any experience with the TA33 Jr. but 
my guess is that there are a lot more things that can go wrong with 
all those traps.


The hexbeam will have gain on WARC bands as well as 10-15-20. My 
experience is that with conditions as they are today, 17m is VERY 
important (so is 30, for that matter) for DXing.


I have a rotatable dipole and yes, it definitely does help a lot to 
rotate it! But it isn't a beam.


73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 20 May 2017 03:02, David Christ wrote:

For a small footprint it is hard to beat the K4KIO hexagonal beam.  I
have one and it works well but a better testimonial is a ham about 10
blocks away with the same antenna and he is on DXCC Honor  Roll.
hight is about 35 feet.  No tuner needed and all bands 20 through 10
plus six if you want it.

Just a satisfied customer

David K0LUM



On May 19, 2017, at 7:40 PM, Terry Brown  wrote:

I apologize that this is not a direct Elecraft equipment question,
but having the K2, KX2, KX3, PX3 and KXPA100, I thought I would
ask.  I will be moving to a new QTH.  I just took down an old
Cushcraft ATB-34, on a 50 ft. tower.  It was the predecessor to the
A4.  I need a beam with a smaller footprint.  I am looking at the
Mosley TA 33-JR.My other antenna will be a multi-band doublet
fed with 450 window line, so it will be able to work the WARC
bands, however, the apex will only be about 25 ft. high, about
roof level,  so it will mostly be a cloud burner, but great for my
local CW skeds on 80 and 40.  My beam will be at 32-35 ft; 8 ft.
above my roofline to the east.  My QTH will be high on a hill
facing the east.  With that background, here is the question:



If I were to order the Mosley TA33-JR-N-WARC,  with the WARC bands
included, even though they will have zero gain, will the ability to
rotate the beam make the reception of the 12 and 17 meter bands
better in all other directions than the orientation of my doublet?
My intuition says yes, but I thought I would ask.



Also, I know that longer length antennas for a given band usually
perform better than a trapped antenna, but I would think that my
low height doublet will not be as effective as a WARC beam. My
doublet will be just at the height of my house and drop to 10 foot
poles on the NW and SW lot corners.



I hated to give up my 50 ft. tower and beam, and my 80 meter
horizontal loop at 40 ft., but sometimes compromises have to be
made.   Being primarily a CW op will help some.



Any advice would be really appreciated!



Very 73's,



Terry de N7TB

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to ua9...@gmail.com



__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP]

I used the K4KIO hexbeam on Field Day -- it was very easy to assemble
and the parts were high quality. It is also visually low-profile. I 
would recommend it. I don't have any experience with the TA33 Jr. but my 
guess is that there are a lot more things that can go wrong with all 
those traps.


The hexbeam will have gain on WARC bands as well as 10-15-20. My 
experience is that with conditions as they are today, 17m is VERY 
important (so is 30, for that matter) for DXing.


I have a rotatable dipole and yes, it definitely does help a lot to 
rotate it! But it isn't a beam.


73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 20 May 2017 03:02, David Christ wrote:

For a small footprint it is hard to beat the K4KIO hexagonal beam.  I
have one and it works well but a better testimonial is a ham about 10
blocks away with the same antenna and he is on DXCC Honor  Roll.
hight is about 35 feet.  No tuner needed and all bands 20 through 10
plus six if you want it.

Just a satisfied customer

David K0LUM



On May 19, 2017, at 7:40 PM, Terry Brown  wrote:

I apologize that this is not a direct Elecraft equipment question,
but having the K2, KX2, KX3, PX3 and KXPA100, I thought I would
ask.  I will be moving to a new QTH.  I just took down an old
Cushcraft ATB-34, on a 50 ft. tower.  It was the predecessor to the
A4.  I need a beam with a smaller footprint.  I am looking at the
Mosley TA 33-JR.My other antenna will be a multi-band doublet
fed with 450 window line, so it will be able to work the WARC
bands, however, the apex will only be about 25 ft. high, about
roof level,  so it will mostly be a cloud burner, but great for my
local CW skeds on 80 and 40.  My beam will be at 32-35 ft; 8 ft.
above my roofline to the east.  My QTH will be high on a hill
facing the east.  With that background, here is the question:



If I were to order the Mosley TA33-JR-N-WARC,  with the WARC bands
included, even though they will have zero gain, will the ability to
rotate the beam make the reception of the 12 and 17 meter bands
better in all other directions than the orientation of my doublet?
My intuition says yes, but I thought I would ask.



Also, I know that longer length antennas for a given band usually
perform better than a trapped antenna, but I would think that my
low height doublet will not be as effective as a WARC beam.  My
doublet will be just at the height of my house and drop to 10 foot
poles on the NW and SW lot corners.



I hated to give up my 50 ft. tower and beam, and my 80 meter
horizontal loop at 40 ft., but sometimes compromises have to be
made.   Being primarily a CW op will help some.



Any advice would be really appreciated!



Very 73's,



Terry de N7TB

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[Dale Boresz]

I agree 100% about the hex beam; I had the original Traffie 20m monobander
and now have the K4KIO broadband 5-band hex beam. Both work extremely well
on their designed bands. However --  it has been my experience that a
5-band hex beam works great as a very low-noise receiving antenna on 40m
and 80m, especially when used as one of the antennas in a diversity receive
configuration with the K3. Not surprisingly, the hex beam exhibits no
directivity when used as a receiving antenna on 40 & 80m.

73,

Dale - WA8SRA


On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 8:12 PM, Tony Estep  wrote:

> On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 7:04 PM, Ian  wrote:
>
> > ...have you consider one of
> > the many hex-beams that are available? ... I have a 5-band model...
>
> ===
> What Ian said! I put up a 5-band hex-beam on my chimney, 21 feet off the
> ground. The results were terrific. My model came from DX Engineering, and
> I'm sure there are other good ones. With that antenna and 500 watts, I
> found that I could succeed in just about any pileup. Highly recommended.
>
> 73,
> Tony KT0NY
> __
>
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[Tony Estep]

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 7:04 PM, Ian  wrote:

> ...have you consider one of
> the many hex-beams that are available? ... I have a 5-band model...

===
What Ian said! I put up a 5-band hex-beam on my chimney, 21 feet off the
ground. The results were terrific. My model came from DX Engineering, and
I'm sure there are other good ones. With that antenna and 500 watts, I
found that I could succeed in just about any pileup. Highly recommended.

73,
Tony KT0NY
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[Ian]

Terry,
If you need a beam with a smaller footprint, have you consider one of
the many hex-beams that are available? I've had one for several years
and really enjoy it. I have a 5-band model that covers all bands, 20m-
10m, WARC bands included. Mine has about as much gain on each band as a
2-element beam, with a moderate front-to-back ratio (about 9 db or so).
Mine is an older model of the original Traffie Technologies HX5-Bi.
Traffie is no longer in business, but there are a few vendors in the US
that offer beams or kits for beams, and if you visit http://www.karinya
.net/g3txq/hexbeam/, there is a wonderful tutorial on the hex-beam,
along with links to plans so you can homebrew yours. 
I have mine on a 30' Force 12 tilt-up mast, so it sits just a few feet
above my roof line. It has something like a 21' turn radius, and about
a 9 pound windload. And the whole antenna only weighs in at about 25
pounds. With this antenna, and my K-Line, if I can hear 'em, I can work
'em!
Good luck with your move and setting up at your new QTH.
73 de,
--Ian
Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA  EM74ua
km4ik@gmail.com
10-10 #74624  North Georgia Chapter #2038PODXS 070 #1962
K3 #281, P3 #688 KAT500 #860, KPA500 #1468
On Fri, 2017-05-19 at 23:40 +, Terry Brown wrote:
> I apologize that this is not a direct Elecraft equipment question,
> but
> having the K2, KX2, KX3, PX3 and KXPA100, I thought I would ask.  I
> will be
> moving to a new QTH.  I just took down an old Cushcraft ATB-34, on a
> 50 ft.
> tower.  It was the predecessor to the A4.  I need a beam with a
> smaller
> footprint.  I am looking at the Mosley TA 33-JR.My other antenna
> will be
> a multi-band doublet fed with 450 window line, so it will be able to
> work
> the WARC bands, however, the apex will only be about 25 ft. high,
> about roof
> level,  so it will mostly be a cloud burner, but great for my local
> CW skeds
> on 80 and 40.  My beam will be at 32-35 ft; 8 ft. above my roofline
> to the
> east.  My QTH will be high on a hill facing the east.  With that
> background,
> here is the question:
> 
>  
> 
> If I were to order the Mosley TA33-JR-N-WARC,  with the WARC bands
> included,
> even though they will have zero gain, will the ability to rotate the
> beam
> make the reception of the 12 and 17 meter bands better in all other
> directions than the orientation of my doublet?  My intuition says
> yes, but I
> thought I would ask.  
> 
>  
> 
> Also, I know that longer length antennas for a given band usually
> perform
> better than a trapped antenna, but I would think that my low height
> doublet
> will not be as effective as a WARC beam.  My doublet will be just at
> the
> height of my house and drop to 10 foot poles on the NW and SW lot
> corners.
> 
>  
> 
> I hated to give up my 50 ft. tower and beam, and my 80 meter
> horizontal loop
> at 40 ft., but sometimes compromises have to be made.   Being
> primarily a CW
> op will help some.
> 
>  
> 
> Any advice would be really appreciated!
> 
>  
> 
> Very 73's,
> 
>  
> 
> Terry de N7TB
> 
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to km4ik@gmail.com
-- 

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[David Christ]

For a small footprint it is hard to beat the K4KIO hexagonal beam.  I have one 
and it works well but a better testimonial is a ham about 10 blocks away with 
the same antenna and he is on DXCC Honor  Roll.  hight is about 35 feet.  No 
tuner needed and all bands 20 through 10 plus six if you want it.

Just a satisfied customer

David K0LUM


> On May 19, 2017, at 7:40 PM, Terry Brown  wrote:
> 
> I apologize that this is not a direct Elecraft equipment question, but
> having the K2, KX2, KX3, PX3 and KXPA100, I thought I would ask.  I will be
> moving to a new QTH.  I just took down an old Cushcraft ATB-34, on a 50 ft.
> tower.  It was the predecessor to the A4.  I need a beam with a smaller
> footprint.  I am looking at the Mosley TA 33-JR.My other antenna will be
> a multi-band doublet fed with 450 window line, so it will be able to work
> the WARC bands, however, the apex will only be about 25 ft. high, about roof
> level,  so it will mostly be a cloud burner, but great for my local CW skeds
> on 80 and 40.  My beam will be at 32-35 ft; 8 ft. above my roofline to the
> east.  My QTH will be high on a hill facing the east.  With that background,
> here is the question:
> 
> 
> 
> If I were to order the Mosley TA33-JR-N-WARC,  with the WARC bands included,
> even though they will have zero gain, will the ability to rotate the beam
> make the reception of the 12 and 17 meter bands better in all other
> directions than the orientation of my doublet?  My intuition says yes, but I
> thought I would ask.  
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I know that longer length antennas for a given band usually perform
> better than a trapped antenna, but I would think that my low height doublet
> will not be as effective as a WARC beam.  My doublet will be just at the
> height of my house and drop to 10 foot poles on the NW and SW lot corners.
> 
> 
> 
> I hated to give up my 50 ft. tower and beam, and my 80 meter horizontal loop
> at 40 ft., but sometimes compromises have to be made.   Being primarily a CW
> op will help some.
> 
> 
> 
> Any advice would be really appreciated!
> 
> 
> 
> Very 73's,
> 
> 
> 
> Terry de N7TB
> 
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to radio...@mchsi.com



__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

[Elecraft] Beam antenna question

[Terry Brown]

I apologize that this is not a direct Elecraft equipment question, but
having the K2, KX2, KX3, PX3 and KXPA100, I thought I would ask.  I will be
moving to a new QTH.  I just took down an old Cushcraft ATB-34, on a 50 ft.
tower.  It was the predecessor to the A4.  I need a beam with a smaller
footprint.  I am looking at the Mosley TA 33-JR.My other antenna will be
a multi-band doublet fed with 450 window line, so it will be able to work
the WARC bands, however, the apex will only be about 25 ft. high, about roof
level,  so it will mostly be a cloud burner, but great for my local CW skeds
on 80 and 40.  My beam will be at 32-35 ft; 8 ft. above my roofline to the
east.  My QTH will be high on a hill facing the east.  With that background,
here is the question:

 

If I were to order the Mosley TA33-JR-N-WARC,  with the WARC bands included,
even though they will have zero gain, will the ability to rotate the beam
make the reception of the 12 and 17 meter bands better in all other
directions than the orientation of my doublet?  My intuition says yes, but I
thought I would ask.  

 

Also, I know that longer length antennas for a given band usually perform
better than a trapped antenna, but I would think that my low height doublet
will not be as effective as a WARC beam.  My doublet will be just at the
height of my house and drop to 10 foot poles on the NW and SW lot corners.

 

I hated to give up my 50 ft. tower and beam, and my 80 meter horizontal loop
at 40 ft., but sometimes compromises have to be made.   Being primarily a CW
op will help some.

 

Any advice would be really appreciated!

 

Very 73's,

 

Terry de N7TB

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com