Re: [Elecraft] Dish/Direct TV RFI?

[Bob Nielsen]

This is getting a bit off-topic, but Directv has larger hard drives and 
even add-on extenders up to 4 TB,  as well as a dedicated 4K channel 
plus on-demand 4K. need a DVR server plus a 4K client box.


Bob. N7XY


On 3/15/18 9:26 AM, Jim Low man wrote:

I’m wondering how much worse the problem will be as DirecTV goes to this new 
technology that’s being advertised on TV-something about a wireless receiver.  
I’ll have to pay more attention.  It sounds like something that the girlfriend 
may want to wait for.  Right now her equipment is first-generation, and she 
would like to have a DVR with larger capacity and a 4K-capable receiver for 
whenever that becomes available.

72/73 de Jim-AD6CW


On Mar 15, 2018, at 8:24 AM, John Huggins, kx4o  wrote:

You are, of course, absolutely correct Jim. Know that one model of the sat
receiver uses an RF remote of some sort that many think is the culprit.

Sadly the response from the, understandably RF clueless, sat help lines is
kind of like going to a doctor with the plea "it hurts to do this" and
response of "well don't do that."

I suspect nothing will change much until a 40m signal affects the sat
systems of the ham's neighbors resulting in a Part 15/97 brawl.


On Wed, March 14, 2018 22:47, Jim Brown wrote:
Problems like this are the result of design defects in the cable modem.
It should be possible to solve problems of this sort by winding multiple
turns of both the coax and the power cable #31 or #43 Fair-Rite toroids.
See

http://k9yc.com/KillingReceiveNoise.pdf

for part numbers and guidelines for winding. While the app note discusses
RX noise radiated from gear like this, the cures are the same
for both.

AND -- because it's the result of a defective modem (i.e. a bad design),
ALWAYS call the vendor and tell them to fix it.

73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] Dish/Direct TV RFI?

[Jim Low man]

I’m wondering how much worse the problem will be as DirecTV goes to this new 
technology that’s being advertised on TV-something about a wireless receiver.  
I’ll have to pay more attention.  It sounds like something that the girlfriend 
may want to wait for.  Right now her equipment is first-generation, and she 
would like to have a DVR with larger capacity and a 4K-capable receiver for 
whenever that becomes available.

72/73 de Jim-AD6CW 

> On Mar 15, 2018, at 8:24 AM, John Huggins, kx4o  wrote:
> 
> You are, of course, absolutely correct Jim. Know that one model of the sat
> receiver uses an RF remote of some sort that many think is the culprit.
> 
> Sadly the response from the, understandably RF clueless, sat help lines is
> kind of like going to a doctor with the plea "it hurts to do this" and
> response of "well don't do that."
> 
> I suspect nothing will change much until a 40m signal affects the sat
> systems of the ham's neighbors resulting in a Part 15/97 brawl.
> 
>> On Wed, March 14, 2018 22:47, Jim Brown wrote:
>> Problems like this are the result of design defects in the cable modem.
>> It should be possible to solve problems of this sort by winding multiple
>> turns of both the coax and the power cable #31 or #43 Fair-Rite toroids.
>> See
>> 
>> http://k9yc.com/KillingReceiveNoise.pdf
>> 
>> for part numbers and guidelines for winding. While the app note discusses
>> RX noise radiated from gear like this, the cures are the same
>> for both.
>> 
>> AND -- because it's the result of a defective modem (i.e. a bad design),
>> ALWAYS call the vendor and tell them to fix it.
>> 
>> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Dish/Direct TV RFI?

[John Huggins, kx4o]

You are, of course, absolutely correct Jim. Know that one model of the sat
receiver uses an RF remote of some sort that many think is the culprit.

Sadly the response from the, understandably RF clueless, sat help lines is
kind of like going to a doctor with the plea "it hurts to do this" and
response of "well don't do that."

I suspect nothing will change much until a 40m signal affects the sat
systems of the ham's neighbors resulting in a Part 15/97 brawl.

On Wed, March 14, 2018 22:47, Jim Brown wrote:
> Problems like this are the result of design defects in the cable modem.
> It should be possible to solve problems of this sort by winding multiple
> turns of both the coax and the power cable #31 or #43 Fair-Rite toroids.
> See
>
> http://k9yc.com/KillingReceiveNoise.pdf
>
> for part numbers and guidelines for winding. While the app note discusses
> RX noise radiated from gear like this, the cures are the same
> for both.
>
> AND -- because it's the result of a defective modem (i.e. a bad design),
> ALWAYS call the vendor and tell them to fix it.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC


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[Elecraft] Dish/Direct TV RFI?

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

For multiple reasons we dumped satellite TV.  Cable service was gone 10 
years ago.


While the DSS receiver and its associated power supply didn't give me 
any issues, I found the plastic box in which the receiver was contained 
offered little to no shielding from my HF transmitters.  Specifically 
the remote control receiver, being an RF remote, must have a front end 
as broad as a barn door.  Even when the remote control method was 
switched to IR, the remote receiver was still active in the box.  My 
solution was to wrap the entire receiver, except a small front corner 
where the IR receiver was located, in aluminum foil.  No amount of 
ferrites on the input, power and output would resolve the issue.  It 
looked a bit crude but it worked.    My wife would certainly let me know 
when the thing changed channels or turned on and off by itself during 
her Pay Per View movies.


The straw which made the final decision to dump satellite TV was weather 
related signal loss, along with their customer service. Either thunder 
storms in the summer or snow and ice in the winter where I've had to 
sweep snow and break ice off of the dish to restore the signal.


Fortunately we are in an area, although basically rural, where our phone 
company provides not only phone, but internet, and HD TV, by underground 
fiber to the house.   They run dedicated CAT 5E cable to each of the 
TV's {3}  and another to my wireless router from the fiber termination 
on the side of the house.   They also provide battery back-up for the 
fiber termination.    The bottom line, their system is totally immune to 
RF on any HF band and any power level, and we no longer have to worry 
about WX related outages.  And  with the expanded package it is costing 
less than the Direct TV service.   I think it is a win win situation.  I 
wish everyone had a system such as this.


73

Bob, K4TAX



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Re: [Elecraft] Dish/Direct TV RFI?

[Jim Brown]

On 3/14/2018 1:36 PM, John Huggins, kx4o wrote:

I have personally seem a 40m signal change the channels on our Direct TV
setup. This is, unfortunately, a common problem...

https://www.google.com/search?q=direct+tv+amateur+radio+changes+channels=direct+tv+amateur+radio+changes+channels


Problems like this are the result of design defects in the cable modem. 
It should be possible to solve problems of this sort by winding multiple 
turns of both the coax and the power cable #31 or #43 Fair-Rite toroids. 
See


http://k9yc.com/KillingReceiveNoise.pdf

for part numbers and guidelines for winding. While the app note 
discusses RX noise radiated from gear like this, the cures are the same 
for both.


AND -- because it's the result of a defective modem (i.e. a bad design), 
ALWAYS call the vendor and tell them to fix it.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Dish/Direct TV RFI?

[John Huggins, kx4o]

I have personally seem a 40m signal change the channels on our Direct TV
setup. This is, unfortunately, a common problem...

https://www.google.com/search?q=direct+tv+amateur+radio+changes+channels=direct+tv+amateur+radio+changes+channels

John, kx4o

On Wed, March 14, 2018 12:56, Reed wrote:
> Has anyone had trouble with RFI, receive or transmit, with Dish or
> Direct TV.  I have cable through Comcast & tired of their rate increases
> so thought I give satellite a try since looks like more bang for the buck.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Reed  W4JZ

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Re: [Elecraft] Dish/Direct TV RFI?

[Dave Hachadorian]

I have had DISH for about three years, and it has been bullet-proof, with me 
running 1500 watts in contests on all HF bands.  I've turned off power in the 
house several times to find potential sources of RFI, and the DISH equipment 
has never been found to radiate RFI.  Before DISH, I had DirecTV, and that was 
not a problem either.  My immediate neighbor had an old DirecTV box with a 
landline telephone line connected to it so she could order pay-per-view movies. 
 That phone connection generated terrible RFI to all the other telephones in 
her house.  A KCom filter on that line solved the problem.


Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, AZ


-Original Message- 
From: Reed 
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 5:56 AM 
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Subject: [Elecraft] Dish/Direct TV RFI? 

Has anyone had trouble with RFI, receive or transmit, with Dish or 
Direct TV.  I have cable through Comcast & tired of their rate increases 
so thought I give satellite a try since looks like more bang for the buck.

Thanks,

Reed  W4JZ

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Re: [Elecraft] Dish/Direct TV RFI?

[Jim Brown]

On 3/14/2018 12:04 PM, John K9UWA wrote:

My first omission. I do not use DirecTV for internet. Only for TV-reception. It 
would be horrible for internet.


My good friend W6JTI lives FAR off the grid in the "lost coast" section 
of Northern California (if you want to find him on a map, look a few 
miles SE of Shelter Cove). He has NO options for cable. He is THRILLED 
to have satellite internet. His alternative is a POTS line.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Dish/Direct TV RFI?

[John K9UWA]

A little clarification is due. Sorry I missed a couple parts in my original 
response 
this morning to Reed's question about DirecTV rcvrs.

My first omission. I do not use DirecTV for internet. Only for TV-reception. It 
would 
be horrible for internet. No Satellite Internet would work for anyone depending 
on 
internet to operate your own ham station remotely due to latency and or packet 
loss. My internet is provided through a CATV company. 

I have never had a problem with ingress of my Ham Station into the DirecTV 
system so I never considered that as an issue. I do run 1500W on 160-10m. 

Next part. Those who claim that the direcTV receivers don't make any noise into 
their Amateur Radio stations probablly have not listened to their DirecTV 
receivers 
with a Noise Sniffer, AM-transistor radio tuned off station; Small loop 
attached to 
your Ham Radio receiver that can be placed close to this receiver and other 
devices in your home. Sniffer receiver used is an old Sony 2001-ICF It doesn't 
have ANL. It can be tuned to most any frequency of interest, It has both 
internal 
an directional loop antenna and a nice long extendable whip that you can reach 
easily close to your Wall Warts, DirecTV receivers, TV sets, Computers Modems 
Routers fluorescent Lights LED lights. Try a walkabout your homes with such 
noise listening devices. 

You just might be surprised at how much noise you are getting into your ham 
radio antennas. Once you eliminate the top tier of noise generators in your 
home 
then you begin to hear the next level down noise generators. There are zero 
fluorescent ballasts in my home. All have been replaced by yes I did find quiet 
direct wire LED bulbs for replacements. Zero Variable speed motors, Fans or 
light 
dimmers. Many other devices as well as the wall wart switchers are gone or 
choked to stop the noise. 

Additional excellent information of noise location and cures at 
http://audiosystemsgroup.com/KillingReceiveNoise.pdf

John k9uwa
DXCC 160m 320
John Goller, K9UWA & Jean Goller, N9PXF 
Antique Radio Restorations
k9...@arrl.net
Visit our Web Site at:
http://www.JohnJeanAntiqueRadio.com
4836 Ranch Road
Leo, IN 46765
USA
1-260-637-6426

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Re: [Elecraft] Dish/Direct TV RFI?

[Reed]

Thanks everyone for responding!  When you only have one cable network in 
your area they pretty much can charge what they want. Been with them 
since the late 80's, but 2 increases in 3 months is a little much.  I 
don't use them for internet or phone thank goodness, just TV.


73,

Reed  W4JZ



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Re: [Elecraft] Dish/Direct TV RFI?

[Dave Cole (NK7Z)]

If anyone has an SDR, or P3 image of Direct TV RFI I would love an image 
of it for my RFI Snapshot page at:


https://www.nk7z.net/rfi-snapshots/

Please send it OFF LIST if you would.


73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
https://www.nk7z.net

On 03/14/2018 08:28 AM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:

I have Dish and there is no interference to it when transmitting on the HF
bands.  During heavy rain storms there is occasional signal loss and I
suppose if you live in areas with a lot of snow you could have similar
issues.

John KK9A

Reed w4jz wrote:
Wed Mar 14 08:56:34 EDT 2018

Has anyone had trouble with RFI, receive or transmit, with Dish or
Direct TV.  I have cable through Comcast & tired of their rate increases
so thought I give satellite a try since looks like more bang for the buck.

Thanks,

Reed  W4JZ

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Re: [Elecraft] Dish/Direct TV RFI?

[Edward R Cole]

None seen here!  Had had both Dish-Net and Direct-TV.  Old 1.8m dish 
was mounted about 30-foot from my 16-foot eme dish where I run 125w 
on 1296.  No problems even with big dish pointed at the sat-TV dish.


My HF antennas are above the ham shack which other side of bedroom 
wall from 46-inch Samsung TV (which uses  home theater system).  6m 
does get into the subwoofer (audio rectification) when I  run 80w+ 
(my wife just turns off the subwoofer if I am on 6m).  I tried 
wrapping audio cables thru a big ferrite donut (no help).  New 1.2m 
dish on the roof is about 40-feet away from my HF tower: Hygain 
tribander and 80/40m inverted-V.  My 630m inverted-L wire passes over 
the dish about 20-feet above it.


I have both K3 and KX3,

Once you go with satellite-TV you will never chose cable again.  They 
aren't perfect but the local dealer gets out pretty fast if you have 
tech problems.  We mainly use sat-TV for watching local news 
(Anchorage - 70mi North of us) and network programs (NBC, ABC, CBS, 
PBS) which are linked from local stations thru the satellite.  Now 
that air broadcasts are digital, signal is too weak to use a TV 
antenna (I'd rather use tall towers for ham radio).


Both Dish-Net and Direct-TV receive near 11-GHz microwave so are 
pretty much insensitive to most ham frequencies (I currently operate 
up to 1296).


73, Ed - KL7UW
-
From: Reed <w...@bellsouth.net>
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Dish/Direct TV RFI?


Has anyone had trouble with RFI, receive or transmit, with Dish or
Direct TV.? I have cable through Comcast & tired of their rate increases
so thought I give satellite a try since looks like more bang for the buck.

Thanks,

Reed? W4JZ


73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] Dish/Direct TV RFI?

[Fred Jensen]

John described RFI from the wall wart switching supply and such supplies 
are both notorious RFI generators and are ubiquitous.  Our DirecTV 
receiver/DVR is completely quiet on HF and as far as I can test, on VHF 
and UHF as well.  I've never interfered with it on any band, even when I 
was running 1200 watts.


Regarding satellite internet, the unmanned spaceship is about 38,600 km 
away in the southern sky, so there is a significant LOS delay on top of 
all the usual processing and routing delays. This can make most forms of 
remote control problematic.  We had a neighbor who worked for HP, often 
at home via a VPN, and the satellite internet did not work for him.


You might see if there is a local wireless provider.  I hosted a couple 
of RAP's for the local provider when we lived in rural NorCal and got 
free, 50 Mbps both ways in return.  Unfortunately, such service is 
usually unavailable in more densely populated areas where cable and DSL 
is available.


Really heavy rain will kill the satellite signal [Ku-band, I think] as 
will snow on the feed horns and in the dish.  I can get to our dish from 
the ground with a broom.  If you live in an area with significant snow, 
you might want to make sure the dish is accessible.  I've wondered about 
some heating tape on the back of the dish but haven't done anything yet.


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 3/14/2018 7:37 AM, John K9UWA wrote:

Hi Reed

YES !  DirecTV receivers are horrible racket makers.
#1 I built a new power cord for the receivers wired into a 12V ASTRON regulated
12v supply. No More Switcher Wall Warts allowed at my QTH.

#2 The HDMI cable from the Rcvr to the TV set has 12 turns through a stack of
TWO of the 2.4" diameter Ferrite #31 mix cores.

Several other 12v devices are also connected to that same Astron supply.
Modem, Router etc. Now that rcvr is quiet.

John k9uwa


Has anyone had trouble with RFI, receive or transmit, with Dish or
Direct TV.  I have cable through Comcast & tired of their rate increases
so thought I give satellite a try since looks like more bang for the buck.

Thanks,

Reed  W4JZ

__


John Goller, K9UWA & Jean Goller, N9PXF
Antique Radio Restorations
k9...@arrl.net
Visit our Web Site at:
http://www.JohnJeanAntiqueRadio.com
4836 Ranch Road
Leo, IN 46765
USA
1-260-637-6426

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Re: [Elecraft] Dish/Direct TV RFI?

[Jim Miller]

Satellite will give tv but what about internet upload download speeds latency 
and jitter?

On Mar 14, 2018, at 11:28 AM, "j...@kk9a.com"  wrote:

I have Dish and there is no interference to it when transmitting on the HF
bands.  During heavy rain storms there is occasional signal loss and I
suppose if you live in areas with a lot of snow you could have similar
issues.

John KK9A

Reed w4jz wrote:
Wed Mar 14 08:56:34 EDT 2018

Has anyone had trouble with RFI, receive or transmit, with Dish or
Direct TV.  I have cable through Comcast & tired of their rate increases
so thought I give satellite a try since looks like more bang for the buck.

Thanks,

Reed  W4JZ

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[Elecraft] Dish/Direct TV RFI?

[j...@kk9a.com]

I have Dish and there is no interference to it when transmitting on the HF
bands.  During heavy rain storms there is occasional signal loss and I
suppose if you live in areas with a lot of snow you could have similar
issues.

John KK9A

Reed w4jz wrote:
Wed Mar 14 08:56:34 EDT 2018

Has anyone had trouble with RFI, receive or transmit, with Dish or
Direct TV.  I have cable through Comcast & tired of their rate increases
so thought I give satellite a try since looks like more bang for the buck.

Thanks,

Reed  W4JZ

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Re: [Elecraft] Dish/Direct TV RFI?

[John K9UWA]

Hi Reed

YES !  DirecTV receivers are horrible racket makers. 
#1 I built a new power cord for the receivers wired into a 12V ASTRON regulated 
12v supply. No More Switcher Wall Warts allowed at my QTH.

#2 The HDMI cable from the Rcvr to the TV set has 12 turns through a stack of 
TWO of the 2.4" diameter Ferrite #31 mix cores. 

Several other 12v devices are also connected to that same Astron supply. 
Modem, Router etc. Now that rcvr is quiet. 

John k9uwa

> Has anyone had trouble with RFI, receive or transmit, with Dish or 
> Direct TV.  I have cable through Comcast & tired of their rate increases 
> so thought I give satellite a try since looks like more bang for the buck.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Reed  W4JZ
> 
> __


John Goller, K9UWA & Jean Goller, N9PXF 
Antique Radio Restorations
k9...@arrl.net
Visit our Web Site at:
http://www.JohnJeanAntiqueRadio.com
4836 Ranch Road
Leo, IN 46765
USA
1-260-637-6426

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Re: [Elecraft] Dish/Direct TV RFI?

[Wayne Carlson]

I tracked down some receive RFI to a Dish Joey Ethernet connection.  Unplugging 
the cable and switching it to use WiFi instead resolved it.

73, Wayne K2DT

-Original Message-

Has anyone had trouble with RFI, receive or transmit, with Dish or Direct TV.  
I have cable through Comcast & tired of their rate increases so thought I give 
satellite a try since looks like more bang for the buck.

Thanks,

Reed  W4JZ

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[Elecraft] Dish/Direct TV RFI?

[Reed]

Has anyone had trouble with RFI, receive or transmit, with Dish or 
Direct TV.  I have cable through Comcast & tired of their rate increases 
so thought I give satellite a try since looks like more bang for the buck.


Thanks,

Reed  W4JZ

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