Re: [Elecraft] Frequency Counter for Calibrating K3S

[Clay Autery]

It is my opinion that the K3s rates the use of a proper quality
frequency counter.
I bought a used, "lab grade" counter with an OXCO, and supply it with an
external GPSDO signal.

Is it required?  No, not really

I initially calibrated the K3s with one of the government time
beacons...  not the simplest procedure that is often mentioned, but
requiring a few iterations...
Pretty confident that it was accurate to within 1-2 Hz...

Careful... calibration and precision can become quite addictive...  :)

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 2/11/2017 11:39 AM, stengrevics wrote:
> I am considering buying a frequency counter to calibrate my K3S.  I see that
> Amazon has several for <$100.  Has anyone had any experience with these? 
> Are they just a waste of money?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
> WA1EAZ

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Re: [Elecraft] Frequency Counter for Calibrating K3S

[ac5p]

You can also use CHU for frequency standard calibration check depending on 
propagation.
3330.000, 7850.000, and 14670.000kHz   
73, Mike AC5P 

On Saturday, February 11, 2017 12:20 PM, John Stengrevics 
 wrote:
 

 Thanks all for the comments.

I think I will stick with WWV.

John’
WA1EAZ

> On Feb 11, 2017, at 1:17 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> John,
> 
> You do not need a frequency counter to calibrate the K3S, use Method 2 with 
> WWV, it is just as accurate.
> Actually it is likely more accurate than you would get with a <$100 frequency 
> counter, unless you calibrate the frequency counter beforehand.  I suspect 
> any frequency counter costing less than $100 is either inaccurate or limited 
> to audio frequencies.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> On 2/11/2017 12:39 PM, stengrevics wrote:
>> I am considering buying a frequency counter to calibrate my K3S.  I see that
>> Amazon has several for <$100.  Has anyone had any experience with these?
>> Are they just a waste of money?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> John
>> WA1EAZ
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
>> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Frequency-Counter-for-Calibrating-K3S-tp7626660.html
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Frequency Counter for Calibrating K3S

[M. George]

If you end up still wanting to get a frequency counter and want to spend a
few bucks, I would keep your eyes peeled for a good deal on an HP 5385A or
something similar on fleaBay, don't mess with the sub $100 cheap ones.
Then get a 10mhz GPSDO reference like the Leo Bodnar GPSDO
<http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info_id=234>...
setup a simple GPS antenna outside your shack and then finalize the setup
with the K3EXREF.  Then distribute the 10mhz signal from the GPSDO to your
Frequency Counter and your K3.  You then end up with a lab grade accurate
frequency counter and you never need to worry about the K3 accuracy ever
again.   Then run out and get a frequency generator because you spent
several hundred bucks on the above setup and because the XG3 is just to
practical and simple... look for an HP 8656B or something similar and use
your GPSDO as a reference for that.  Oh and then you might want to get an
HP power meter like a E4418A and sensors to check the accuracy of the
frequency generator. (sensors at $150-$400 a pop) :)  Oh, and then if you
have a PPS output from your GPSDO you can setup your own Raspberry PI or
Odroid Stratum 1 NTPD server and have a NTP clock reference that is
accurate into the potentially nano second range to sync your PC clocks
against.  (all just because you can ... lol!)

Of course, I agree with the other posts... it's crazy simple to zero beat
with WWV and or switch back and forth between the CW side bands to zero
your REFCAL setting on the K3.  And it's free too. ;)  But some of us like
buying and tinkering with this stuff.  I'm guilty as accused.

Max NG7M

On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 12:25 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire <r...@cobi.biz> wrote:

> Some people seem to have a lot of trouble detecting "zero beat" but once
> the
> technique is learned, it's easy to calibrate the K3/K3S to within 0.2 Hz of
> WWV's carrier (one beat every 5 seconds). One could get closer depending
> upon your patience.
>
> It's useful to wait until WWV transmits a steady carrier with no tone,
> otherwise it's easy to accidentally zero beat one of the sidebands produced
> by the tone so you end up off by the frequency of the tone.
>
> The K3 makes a great tunable frequency meter. Nowadays I use the K3
> (calibrated against WWV) to check the calibration of the counter's master
> oscillator.
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bill
> Frantz
> Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 10:01 AM
> To: stengrevics
> Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Frequency Counter for Calibrating K3S
>
> Frequency counters will also need to be calibrated. I have been quite happy
> using WWV with my K3, and you can't beat the price.
>
> 73 Bill AE6JV
>
> On 2/11/17 at 9:39 AM, jstengrev...@comcast.net (stengrevics) wrote:
>
> >I am considering buying a frequency counter to calibrate my K3S.  I see
> >that Amazon has several for <$100.  Has anyone had any experience with
> >these? Are they just a waste of money?
>
> __
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>



-- 
M. George
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Re: [Elecraft] Frequency Counter for Calibrating K3S

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Some people seem to have a lot of trouble detecting "zero beat" but once the
technique is learned, it's easy to calibrate the K3/K3S to within 0.2 Hz of
WWV's carrier (one beat every 5 seconds). One could get closer depending
upon your patience.

It's useful to wait until WWV transmits a steady carrier with no tone,
otherwise it's easy to accidentally zero beat one of the sidebands produced
by the tone so you end up off by the frequency of the tone.

The K3 makes a great tunable frequency meter. Nowadays I use the K3
(calibrated against WWV) to check the calibration of the counter's master
oscillator. 

73, Ron AC7AC
 
 

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bill
Frantz
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 10:01 AM
To: stengrevics
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Frequency Counter for Calibrating K3S

Frequency counters will also need to be calibrated. I have been quite happy
using WWV with my K3, and you can't beat the price.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 2/11/17 at 9:39 AM, jstengrev...@comcast.net (stengrevics) wrote:

>I am considering buying a frequency counter to calibrate my K3S.  I see 
>that Amazon has several for <$100.  Has anyone had any experience with 
>these? Are they just a waste of money?

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Re: [Elecraft] Frequency Counter for Calibrating K3S

[John Stengrevics]

Thanks all for the comments.

I think I will stick with WWV.

John’
WA1EAZ

> On Feb 11, 2017, at 1:17 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> John,
> 
> You do not need a frequency counter to calibrate the K3S, use Method 2 with 
> WWV, it is just as accurate.
> Actually it is likely more accurate than you would get with a <$100 frequency 
> counter, unless you calibrate the frequency counter beforehand.  I suspect 
> any frequency counter costing less than $100 is either inaccurate or limited 
> to audio frequencies.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> On 2/11/2017 12:39 PM, stengrevics wrote:
>> I am considering buying a frequency counter to calibrate my K3S.  I see that
>> Amazon has several for <$100.  Has anyone had any experience with these?
>> Are they just a waste of money?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> John
>> WA1EAZ
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
>> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Frequency-Counter-for-Calibrating-K3S-tp7626660.html
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> __
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>> Message delivered to donw...@embarqmail.com
>> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Frequency Counter for Calibrating K3S

[Don Wilhelm]

John,

You do not need a frequency counter to calibrate the K3S, use Method 2 
with WWV, it is just as accurate.
Actually it is likely more accurate than you would get with a <$100 
frequency counter, unless you calibrate the frequency counter 
beforehand.  I suspect any frequency counter costing less than $100 is 
either inaccurate or limited to audio frequencies.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/11/2017 12:39 PM, stengrevics wrote:

I am considering buying a frequency counter to calibrate my K3S.  I see that
Amazon has several for <$100.  Has anyone had any experience with these?
Are they just a waste of money?

Thanks,

John
WA1EAZ



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Re: [Elecraft] Frequency Counter for Calibrating K3S

[Harry Yingst via Elecraft]

I think you would do much better getting something like a used Racal-Dana 1992 
or the like of of ebay with the crystal oven.




  From: stengrevics <jstengrev...@comcast.net>
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 12:39 PM
 Subject: [Elecraft] Frequency Counter for Calibrating K3S
   
I am considering buying a frequency counter to calibrate my K3S.  I see that
Amazon has several for <$100.  Has anyone had any experience with these? 
Are they just a waste of money?

Thanks,

John
WA1EAZ



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Re: [Elecraft] Frequency Counter for Calibrating K3S

[Bill Frantz]

Frequency counters will also need to be calibrated. I have been 
quite happy using WWV with my K3, and you can't beat the price.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 2/11/17 at 9:39 AM, jstengrev...@comcast.net (stengrevics) wrote:


I am considering buying a frequency counter to calibrate my K3S.  I see that
Amazon has several for <$100.  Has anyone had any experience 
with these? Are they just a waste of money?

---
Bill Frantz| If you want total security, go to prison. 
There you're
408-356-8506   | fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. 
The only

www.pwpconsult.com | thing lacking is freedom. - Dwight D. Eisenhower

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Re: [Elecraft] Frequency Counter for Calibrating K3S

[Phil Hystad]

What?  I didn’t know that Elecraft offered frequency counters.  Or, do you mean 
something like the XG2, a signal source for testing rigs?

73, phil, K7PEH


> On Feb 11, 2017, at 9:39 AM, stengrevics  wrote:
> 
> I am considering buying a frequency counter to calibrate my K3S.  I see that
> Amazon has several for <$100.  Has anyone had any experience with these? 
> Are they just a waste of money?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John
> WA1EAZ
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Frequency-Counter-for-Calibrating-K3S-tp7626660.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> __
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[Elecraft] Frequency Counter for Calibrating K3S

[stengrevics]

I am considering buying a frequency counter to calibrate my K3S.  I see that
Amazon has several for <$100.  Has anyone had any experience with these? 
Are they just a waste of money?

Thanks,

John
WA1EAZ



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[Elecraft] Frequency Counter

[Dennis Vavra]

Don,

Thanks for the info regarding the XG2/Freq Ctr. Could you recommend a 
make/model freq ctr for kit building? Iv'e looked on the MFJ web site, but if 
you have better ideas it would be of great help. Preferably one that is not too 
expensive!!
Dennis Vavra,  AD5LY
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Re: [Elecraft] Frequency Counter

[Don Wilhelm]

Dennis,

I would not recommend ANY kit frequency counter if one will be using it 
for calibration purposes - unless you have some means of calibrating it.


I can recommend a recently calibrated HP or Fluke frequency counter - 
you can sometimes find them used at auction sites, but they may not have 
recent (and tracable) calibration.  Good calibration does cost dearly at 
a calibration lab.


To be properly used as a calibration device the instrument should have a 
tracable calibration accuracy of 10 times the accuracy that you seek 
when using it.  That means if you wish to achieve 1 Hz accuracy at 10 
MHz, that instrument must be calibrated to an accuracy of 10^-7 or 
better.  That kind of accuracy just cannot be achieved with an 
over-the-air signal from WWV - syncing to WWVB might be possible, but 
that is not easy for most ham/experimenter situations.  If you can find 
a GPS synced standard, you may be able to achieve 10^-8 or with care 
even 10^-9 in some cases.


You alone must decide what kind of accuracy you wish to achieve and make 
your decisions based on the specifications for the counter and the 
accuracy of your calibration techniques.


73,
Don W3FPR

Dennis Vavra wrote:

Don,

Thanks for the info regarding the XG2/Freq Ctr. Could you recommend a 
make/model freq ctr for kit building? Iv'e looked on the MFJ web site, but if 
you have better ideas it would be of great help. Preferably one that is not too 
expensive!!
Dennis Vavra,  AD5LY
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RE: [Elecraft] Frequency Counter

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

I have a little portable counter (ancient - late 70's technology) that uses
a 4 MHz crystal. It was nothing fancy. It didn't even have a way to adjust
the crystal frequency.  I had to add a small piston trimmer cap to the
design. I used it commercially to confirm that shipboard transmitters were
in spec before the FCC checked them during the annual inspection. I noted
that my counter was always very, very close to the FCC examiner's much more
sophisticated instrument. 

Mine used the common 4 MHz crystal. Before going out to a ship the check the
transmitters I'd set it using the 5th harmonic of the xtal to beat against
WWV. I could easily set it to with 1/2 Hz at 20 MHz. That is the S-meter on
the receiver monitoring WWV would wander every so slowly, completing a cycle
in no less than 1 second. That meant the time base error was 1/5 that for a
total error of 1/10 Hz or less. 

If I ever have to retire my little counter I'll look for a similar
capability in any design I use to replace it. As long as I can check the
calibration regularly I'll know how much a counter tends to drift and I can
quickly set it very accurately whenever I need to make an especially precise
adjustment. It's pretty rare when WWV isn't booming in here on 20 MHz on the
west coast. 

I set my K2's calibration using the procedure Wayne provided on the web
site, primarily because I wanted to see how easily it worked. It was simple,
quick and yielded results well within the 20 Hz or so possible error of the
DAC's used in the K2. So I never tried using WWV at 20 MHz to zero beat the
K2 control board oscillator, but I'd expect it to work just as well. 

After all, the K2 has a built in frequency counter. It's that built-in
counter's time base that C22 adjusts! Why not set it as accurately as
possible and use it as it was intended. 

Ron AC7AC

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Re: [Elecraft] Frequency Counter

[Matt Osborn]

I can recommend the M3 FPM1 Frequency Counter and Power Meter..

http://www.m3electronix.com/fpm1.html

It's a great kit but the calibration problem still remains.  For
calibration, M3 sells the RF Calibrator which is NOT a kit, but does
come calibrated by M3.

http://www.m3electronix.com/rfcal.html

Both are remarkably accurate and I've found them to be very useful
additions to my bench.

Disclaimer:  I do not work for M3 Electronix, I'm just a satisfied
customer.


On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:30:33 -0500, Dennis Vavra [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

Don,

Thanks for the info regarding the XG2/Freq Ctr. Could you recommend a 
make/model freq ctr for kit building? Iv'e looked on the MFJ web site, but if 
you have better ideas it would be of great help. Preferably one that is not 
too expensive!!
Dennis Vavra,  AD5LY
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-- kc0ukk at msosborn dot com
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RE: [Elecraft] Frequency Counter Probe not working S/N 5567

[McMillan, Terry]

Good Morning Don,

Thanks for your assistance, I found the problem and the Freq. counter is
now working.

I used one of the 2n's from the RF board and replaced Q9.  But, this
did not fix the problem so I checked the voltage at the base and Q9 and
found none.  Checking the voltage at Q10 I found .73Vdc.  Checked for
voltage at RP4 pin 1 and found none, checked RP4 pin 2 and found
3.something.  Reheated pins 1 and 2 and bang problem fixed, .73Vdc at Q9
base and freq. counter working.

Thanks for your help.  It's been a long time since I followed a
schematic.  All in all a good learning experience.  Now back to
building.

Have a great week.

Terry
VA6MAC
s/n 5567

-Original Message-
From: Don Wilhelm [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 3:33 PM
To: McMillan, Terry
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Frequency Counter Probe not working S/N 5567


Terry,

I don't know the RF characteristics of those replacement transistors, so
I would be hesitant to use them in an RF application - I suggest you use
the 2Ns that are intended for RF Board Q11 and Q13 as your
replacements for the MPS5179s and then use the NTE123AP transistors for
Q11 and Q13 - they will owrk in those positions just fine becuase they
do not handle RF, so only the DC gain counts, and if they are good
replacements, they will work there because that circuit only sets the
bias level for the PA output transistors.

Hey, at 11 cents each, buy 9 of them for $1 and you will have a few
spares!!!

73,
Don W3FPR


 -Original Message-
 From: McMillan, Terry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 5:11 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Frequency Counter Probe not working S/N 5567



 Don,

 I called the local electronics shop they could not find a cross
 reference for Q9/Q10 MPS5179.  But have a cross reference for 2n,
 a NTE123AP.

 At 11 cents each can I use the NTE123AP to replace Q9/Q10?  This would

 save shipping from the US to Canada and I can walk over to the shop so

 delivery is quick.

 Thanks again for your help.

 Terry VA6MAC

 -Original Message-
 From: Don Wilhelm [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 03,
 2006 1:25 PM
 To: McMillan, Terry
 Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Frequency Counter Probe not working S/N 5567


 Terry,

 If you do not have an oscilliscope to check through the Q9/Q10 path to

 the microprocessor input, then yes the next thing to try is replacing
 Q9 and Q10.  If you have stock on 2Ns, try those in place of the
 2N5179s.  Note that I have ordered some 2N5179s that did not work
 properly in this application, but all the ones I have obtained from
 Elecraft worked fine - my conclusion is that all 2N5179s are not
 created equal and I don't know why.

 You can 'borrow' 2Ns from the unbuilt part of your K2 and order
 replacements from Scott.

 73,
 Don W3FPR


  -Original Message-
  From: McMillan, Terry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 12:27 PM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Frequency Counter Probe not working S/N 5567
 
 
 
  Good Morning Don,
 
  Thanks for your help.
 
  I verified again that the pins are not reversed in the housing;
 the  shield is closest to the side panel.
 
  I then checked c22 with a 12 pf cap connected in series with a
 test  lead, still nothing displayed on the panel except 0.00.
 Using  another RXvr I do detect a 4MHz signal at C22 so it does look
 like the

  reference oscillator is working. So it would appear to be a
 component  in the counter circuit on the board at fault.
 
  I rechecked:
 
  Solder bridges - None
  Q9  Q10: are MPS5179 and oriented properly
  RP4: 8x-2-823, I questioned [EMAIL PROTECTED] if this is a sub for
  77083823. They confirmed it was.
  C37: 103
  C38: 681
  C39: 103
 
  What's next, replace Q9  Q10?
 
  Terry VA6MAC
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Don Wilhelm [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: July 2, 2006
  7:41

  PM
  To: McMillan, Terry; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
  Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Frequency Counter Probe not working S/N 5567
 
  Terry,
 
  Is there a possibility that you have the pins in the housing
  reversed?

  The shield should be closest to the side panel.
 
  There is just not much to the frequency probe - a piece of coax with

  a

  10 pf capacitor in series with the center conductor, so not
 really  much to go wrong.
 
  To test the counter (without the probe), you can connect a clip
 lead  with a series 10 pf capacitor from the counter input to the
 control  board (pin furtherest away from the side panel) to C22 (any
 10 pf cap  will do - use one
  from the kit, or a 12 pf if you can't find a 10 pf) - if you find a
  reading anywhere near 4 MHz, then the counter is working and you
  will find
 your
  trouble in the probe - or there is a chance that the reference
  oscillator is not working (and that is a bigger problem).  If you
  have another
 receiver,
  connect a short antenna wire and put it close ot C22

RE: [Elecraft] Frequency Counter Probe not working S/N 5567

[Don Wilhelm]

Terry,

I'm glad you found it - congratulations on the good troubleshooting steps.

73,
Don W3FPR
 

 -Original Message-
 
 Thanks for your assistance, I found the problem and the Freq. counter is
 now working.
 
 I used one of the 2n's from the RF board and replaced Q9.  But, this
 did not fix the problem so I checked the voltage at the base and Q9 and
 found none.  Checking the voltage at Q10 I found .73Vdc.  Checked for
 voltage at RP4 pin 1 and found none, checked RP4 pin 2 and found
 3.something.  Reheated pins 1 and 2 and bang problem fixed, .73Vdc at Q9
 base and freq. counter working.
 
 Thanks for your help.  It's been a long time since I followed a
 schematic.  All in all a good learning experience.  Now back to
 building.
 
 
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[Elecraft] Frequency Counter Probe not working S/N 5567

[McMillan, Terry]

Hello



I've been busy building my K2.  I have completed the control and front panel 
boards with all checks reading as they should.  Have just completed Part I of 
the RF board and everything checks out fine except when I test the frequency 
counter probe on the left side of C22 the display does not change from 
0.00.  Tried both sides but nothing reads on counter.



Checked the archive and found that Tim Soxman describes the same problem and 
found a short on his probe coax.  I have checked for continuity between the two 
pins in the crimp housing with the results being wide open. 



Robert C Reisenweber also describes the problem and found it to be a bias 
voltage on Q10 that touching up solder joint fixed.  I have re-examined all 
solder joints in the area.



My questions are:



Is there something I can do to isolate the problem to either the probe or the 
control board?



How do I check the bias voltage on Q9 and Q10 ?



What can I do to isolate the failing component?



Thanks for your help.



Oh, one last thing.  Can I carry on with building Part II or will that get in 
the way of troubleshooting this problem.  Can I power up the radio again 
without completing part II.



Terry

VA6MAC




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RE: [Elecraft] Frequency Counter Probe not working S/N 5567

[Don Wilhelm]

Terry,

Is there a possibility that you have the pins in the housing reversed?  The
shield should be closest to the side panel.

There is just not much to the frequency probe - a piece of coax with a 10 pf
capacitor in series with the center conductor, so not really much to go
wrong.

To test the counter (without the probe), you can connect a clip lead with a
series 10 pf capacitor from the counter input to the control board (pin
furtherest away from the side panel) to C22 (any 10 pf cap will do - use one
from the kit, or a 12 pf if you can't find a 10 pf) - if you find a reading
anywhere near 4 MHz, then the counter is working and you will find your
trouble in the probe - or there is a chance that the reference oscillator is
not working (and that is a bigger problem).  If you have another receiver,
connect a short antenna wire and put it close ot C22 to see if you can
detect a 4 MHz signal present.  But then, if the microprocessor is
responding and you have an LCD display, then the 4 MHz oscillator is likely
working.

You can continue building, but you will need the counter probe when you
begin the Alignment and Test II.
I would hesitate to say that you should power up the K2 during the process
of building the Part II stuff - if something goes wrong, it is difficult to
predict what the problem may be.  Normally, passing the resistance checks is
an indicator that it is OK to apply power.

73,
Don W3FPR


 -Original Message-

 I've been busy building my K2.  I have completed the control and
 front panel boards with all checks reading as they should.  Have
 just completed Part I of the RF board and everything checks out
 fine except when I test the frequency counter probe on the left
 side of C22 the display does not change from 0.00.  Tried
 both sides but nothing reads on counter.

 My questions are:


 Is there something I can do to isolate the problem to either the
 probe or the control board?


 How do I check the bias voltage on Q9 and Q10 ?


 What can I do to isolate the failing component?


 Thanks for your help.


 Oh, one last thing.  Can I carry on with building Part II or will
 that get in the way of troubleshooting this problem.  Can I power
 up the radio again without completing part II.


 Terry

 VA6MAC


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[Elecraft] FREQUENCY COUNTER

[BILL COCHRAN]

I am doing the 4 MHz oscillator check and I can't seem to get a reading on the 
probe. Should I make note of this now or wait until I get into the 4 MHz 
counter calibration later in the build? Is there any other alternative to 
checking the calibration without using the probe that was supplied with the kit?


BILL COCHRAN
  BILL COCHRAN REAL ESTATE APPRAISALS, LLC
  1430 N 12TH STREET
  CAMBRIDGE, OHIO
  43725
   
  PHONE:740-439-7058
  FAX: 740-236-1560
   
  AMATEUR CALLSIGN: N8PGX
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[Elecraft] Frequency Counter

[Glenn Haffly]

Can someone recommend a general purpose frequency counter
suitable for setting C22 in a K2 and for other ham shack uses?

Glenn
K5ZE
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RE: [Elecraft] Frequency Counter

[W3FPR - Don Wilhelm]

Glenn,

The qualities of a frequency counter capable of setting the K2 reference
accurately is that it be capable of counting down to 1 Hz and have adequate
accuracy - which means that it must be properly calibrated.  The calibration
is more important than having any particular counter.  Most any counter
capable of input frequencies 15 MHz and above will do a good job if properly
calibrated.  For general ham use at HF, I would look for one that will go to
at least 50 MHz or preferrably 100 MHz - calibration to off the air WWV is
just not accurate enough for most purposes, calibration to a GPS based
standard or a WWVB based standard should be adequate.  Be aware of the long
term and short term stability specs of the reference oscillator in any
frequency counter that you invest in - that will tell you how accurate your
counter should be and how much drift you may experience after it is
calibrated.  Usually, the calibration standard must be about 10 times more
accurate than the instrument being calibrated, so if you need to calibrate
an instrument to 1 part in 10^6, you will need a standard that is guaranteed
to 1 part in 10^-7 to do a proper calibration.  The major point I am trying
to make here is that you should know your instrument's accuracy so that you
know just how 'far to trust it' - that fact pertains to all measurement
instruments not just frequency counters, if you don't know the accuracy, the
lower order digits shown on a multi-digit instrument may be pure garbage.

If setting the K2 reference oscillator is your major goal, I strongly
suggest that you use the internal K2 counter and the 'N6KR' method - which
is the one detailed on the Elecraft website
http://www.elecraft.com/Apps/K2%20C22%20Adjust%20App%20Note.pdf.  That
method does require that you be able to tune WWV in precisely - listening to
the voice announcements will get you close, I highly recommend that you use
Spectrogram to view the tones transmitted by WWV - they alternate between
500 and 600 Hz on alternate minutes, and if you set Spectrogram markers at
both 500 and 600 Hz, after a few minutes you can tune the K2 so that the
Spectrogram peaks from the tones line up with the markers.  This method for
setting the K2 reference is more accurate than using an external counter
unless you know that your counter is calibrated properly and accurately
(calibration to 1 part in 10^-7 or better is my recommedation).

73,
Don W3FPR

 -Original Message-

 Can someone recommend a general purpose frequency counter
 suitable for setting C22 in a K2 and for other ham shack uses?

 Glenn
 K5ZE



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