Re: [Elecraft] IC-7610 added to Sherwood's list
Nice radio but not a K3s by any stretch of the imagination. I have both. 73, John N1JM Don Wilhelm-5 wrote > Rob’s IC-7610 RX performance measurements are now posted, at > sherweng.com. The ‘7610 came in twelfth on his list. > The real shocker is the BDR: only 119 to 122 dB. That’s 30 dB weaker > than the K3S and only 1 dB better than the IC-7300. I guess no one is > using these rigs in high-signal conditions. > > Bragging rights for the K3, KX3 and K3S owners. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto: > Elecraft@.qth > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to > lists+1215531472858-365791@.nabble -- Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] IC-7610 added to Sherwood's list
Yes, And while you can do SO2R with the dual antenna configuration, you can't really do SO2R the way it should be as it doesn't handle OTRSP to handle the audio switching. At least, from what I have seen. That can limit some contesting features. Mike va3mw On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 7:31 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: > > Be careful! The IC-7610 lacks a second "Line Out" connection for the > sub-receiver. That means that the user can not feed each receiver to > the left/right channels of the soundcard and decode data modes on both > receivers at the same time ... think monitoring a DX station and > listening for callers in the (split) pile up at the same time, etc. > > 73, > >... Joe, W4TV > > > On 12/25/2017 12:37 AM, a**@sbcglobal wrote: > >> Thanks, Dave. I used that extra word “full” for no reason. Thanks for >> confirming that it does diversity. I had heard that the VFOs weren’t >> actually phase-locked. Glad to hear they are. >> >> Merry Christmas, >> >> Al. W6LX >> >> On Dec 24, 2017, at 8:56 PM, David Bunte wrote: >>> >>> Al - >>> >>> The published specs indicate "diversity" (not just dual watch). If there >>> is a difference between "diversity" and "full diversity" it is not >>> something of which I am aware. >>> >>> Dave - K9FN >>> >>> On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 11:12 PM, Al Lorona wrote: Does anybody know if the "dual RX" is full diversity reception? Al W6LX ...to support the "dual RX" capability of the 7610. >>> >> __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to dpbu...@gmail.com >>> >>> >> __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to va...@portcredit.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] IC-7610 added to Sherwood's list
Be careful! The IC-7610 lacks a second "Line Out" connection for the sub-receiver. That means that the user can not feed each receiver to the left/right channels of the soundcard and decode data modes on both receivers at the same time ... think monitoring a DX station and listening for callers in the (split) pile up at the same time, etc. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 12/25/2017 12:37 AM, a**@sbcglobal wrote: Thanks, Dave. I used that extra word “full” for no reason. Thanks for confirming that it does diversity. I had heard that the VFOs weren’t actually phase-locked. Glad to hear they are. Merry Christmas, Al. W6LX On Dec 24, 2017, at 8:56 PM, David Bunte wrote: Al - The published specs indicate "diversity" (not just dual watch). If there is a difference between "diversity" and "full diversity" it is not something of which I am aware. Dave - K9FN On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 11:12 PM, Al Lorona wrote: Does anybody know if the "dual RX" is full diversity reception? Al W6LX ...to support the "dual RX" capability of the 7610. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to dpbu...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] IC-7610 added to Sherwood's list
Alan, Maybe this (low BDR) explains why the ‘7610 provides such a huge amount of user-selectable attenuation. I think it’s on the order of 45 dB. Wayne N6KR http://www.elecraft.com > On Dec 24, 2017, at 9:27 PM, Alan wrote: > ... > In my opinion, the best apples-to-apples comparison of direct-sampling and > superhet receivers is blocking dynamic range (BDR). It is a simple > measurement of the ratio between the strongest signal the receiver can handle > and the weakest signal it can hear. > > BDR tends to be limited by phase noise when the interfering signal is close > to the desired signal. This is not a measurement artifact but reflects > actual on-the-air performance. Direct-sampling receivers tend to have an > advantage close-in, although a superhet can also do well if the synthesizer > is carefully designed (for example the K3s :=) > > Alan N1AL >> __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] IC-7610 added to Sherwood's list
Sorry my eyes deceived me. It's there. John_N1JM wrote > I just checked the list. I don't see it. > > John N1JM > > > > Don Wilhelm-5 wrote >> Rob’s IC-7610 RX performance measurements are now posted, at >> sherweng.com. The ‘7610 came in twelfth on his list. >> The real shocker is the BDR: only 119 to 122 dB. That’s 30 dB weaker >> than the K3S and only 1 dB better than the IC-7300. I guess no one is >> using these rigs in high-signal conditions. >> >> Bragging rights for the K3, KX3 and K3S owners. >> >> 73, >> Don W3FPR >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto: > >> Elecraft@.qth > >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to > >> lists+1215531472858-365791@.nabble > > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto: > Elecraft@.qth > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to > lists+1215531472858-365791@.nabble -- Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] IC-7610 added to Sherwood's list
I just checked the list. I don't see it. John N1JM Don Wilhelm-5 wrote > Rob’s IC-7610 RX performance measurements are now posted, at > sherweng.com. The ‘7610 came in twelfth on his list. > The real shocker is the BDR: only 119 to 122 dB. That’s 30 dB weaker > than the K3S and only 1 dB better than the IC-7300. I guess no one is > using these rigs in high-signal conditions. > > Bragging rights for the K3, KX3 and K3S owners. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto: > Elecraft@.qth > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to > lists+1215531472858-365791@.nabble -- Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] IC-7610 added to Sherwood's list
Thanks, Dave. I used that extra word “full” for no reason. Thanks for confirming that it does diversity. I had heard that the VFOs weren’t actually phase-locked. Glad to hear they are. Merry Christmas, Al. W6LX > On Dec 24, 2017, at 8:56 PM, David Bunte wrote: > > Al - > > The published specs indicate "diversity" (not just dual watch). If there is a > difference between "diversity" and "full diversity" it is not something of > which I am aware. > > Dave - K9FN > >> On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 11:12 PM, Al Lorona wrote: >> Does anybody know if the "dual RX" is full diversity reception? >> >> Al W6LX >> >> >> >> >> >>> ...to support the "dual RX" capability of the 7610. >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to dpbu...@gmail.com > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] IC-7610 added to Sherwood's list
You're right, it is misleading to compare third-order intermodulation distortion dynamic range (IMD3) specs of a direct-sampling receiver and a superhet. With a superhet, the distortion tends to increase linearly with signal level, 3 dB per dB for third-order products. So you can measure IMD3 using different techniques and signal levels and get approximately the same answer. With direct-sampling receivers you can get almost any result you want simply by slightly changing the test parameters. Even measuring the same receiver using supposedly the same technique, the results are often inconsistent. In my opinion, the best apples-to-apples comparison of direct-sampling and superhet receivers is blocking dynamic range (BDR). It is a simple measurement of the ratio between the strongest signal the receiver can handle and the weakest signal it can hear. BDR tends to be limited by phase noise when the interfering signal is close to the desired signal. This is not a measurement artifact but reflects actual on-the-air performance. Direct-sampling receivers tend to have an advantage close-in, although a superhet can also do well if the synthesizer is carefully designed (for example the K3s :=) Alan N1AL On 12/24/2017 06:19 PM, WILLIE BABER wrote: How is it possible to compare the dynamic range of a direct conversion radio with a superhet, where a mode-specific filter can be placed at the first mixer, with the expectation that direct conversion would give similar dynamic range as a superhet? I haven't heard yet a technical way to explain this, especially given > how Wes Hayward defined how to measure receiver dynamic range many years ago. 73, Will, wj9b __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] IC-7610 added to Sherwood's list
Al - The published specs indicate "diversity" (not just dual watch). If there is a difference between "diversity" and "full diversity" it is not something of which I am aware. Dave - K9FN On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 11:12 PM, Al Lorona wrote: > Does anybody know if the "dual RX" is full diversity reception? > > Al W6LX > > > > > >>> ...to support the "dual RX" capability of the 7610. > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to dpbu...@gmail.com > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] IC-7610 added to Sherwood's list
Does anybody know if the "dual RX" is full diversity reception? Al W6LX >>> ...to support the "dual RX" capability of the 7610. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] IC-7610 added to Sherwood's list
How is it possible to compare the dynamic range of a direct conversion radio with a superhet, where a mode-specific filter can be placed at the first mixer, with the expectation that direct conversion would give similar dynamic range as a superhet? I haven't heard yet a technical way to explain this, especially given how Wes Hayward defined how to measure receiver dynamic range many years ago. 73, Will, wj9b CWops #1085 CWA Advisor levels II and III http://cwops.org/ On Sun, 12/24/17, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: Subject: Re: [Elecraft] IC-7610 added to Sherwood's list To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Sunday, December 24, 2017, 5:03 PM On 12/24/2017 5:32 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: > The real shocker is the BDR: only 119 to 122 dB. That’s 30 dB weaker > than the K3S and only 1 dB better than the IC-7300. My guess is that the "Front end selectivity" is not an "A tracking preselector" but rather a "B Band Pass" and that the bandpass is wider that that of the 7300 in order to support the "dual RX" capability of the 7610. It's either that or the design/hardware has some significant bugs. The other explanation would be simply that direct sampling SDR has a far wider measurement variability than traditional receiver topology. Note the 12 dB difference in IMDDR3 between Flex 6700 on 9/29/14 and the Flex 6700 measured on 3/17/17. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 12/24/2017 5:32 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: > Rob’s IC-7610 RX performance measurements are now posted, at > sherweng.com. The ‘7610 came in twelfth on his list. > The real shocker is the BDR: only 119 to 122 dB. That’s 30 dB weaker > than the K3S and only 1 dB better than the IC-7300. I guess no one is > using these rigs in high-signal conditions. > > Bragging rights for the K3, KX3 and K3S owners. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to li...@subich.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] IC-7610 added to Sherwood's list
On 12/24/2017 5:32 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: > The real shocker is the BDR: only 119 to 122 dB. That’s 30 dB weaker > than the K3S and only 1 dB better than the IC-7300. My guess is that the "Front end selectivity" is not an "A tracking preselector" but rather a "B Band Pass" and that the bandpass is wider that that of the 7300 in order to support the "dual RX" capability of the 7610. It's either that or the design/hardware has some significant bugs. The other explanation would be simply that direct sampling SDR has a far wider measurement variability than traditional receiver topology. Note the 12 dB difference in IMDDR3 between Flex 6700 on 9/29/14 and the Flex 6700 measured on 3/17/17. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 12/24/2017 5:32 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: Rob’s IC-7610 RX performance measurements are now posted, at sherweng.com. The ‘7610 came in twelfth on his list. The real shocker is the BDR: only 119 to 122 dB. That’s 30 dB weaker than the K3S and only 1 dB better than the IC-7300. I guess no one is using these rigs in high-signal conditions. Bragging rights for the K3, KX3 and K3S owners. 73, Don W3FPR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to li...@subich.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] IC-7610 added to Sherwood's list
We all can look forward to the 7610PRO, whatever that means. What an unbelievable amount of hype proceeded the release of this transceiver... 73 Jeff kb2m -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike VE3YF Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 7:20 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] IC-7610 added to Sherwood's list Don: I wonder if this is a result of rushing the rig to market instead of getting things correct first. -- *73 De Mike* *VE3YF _/http://www.ve3yf.com/_* __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to k...@arrl.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] IC-7610 added to Sherwood's list
Mike, I refuse to speculate on Icom's motives. I just read the results. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/24/2017 7:19 PM, Mike VE3YF wrote: Don: I wonder if this is a result of rushing the rig to market instead of getting things correct first. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] IC-7610 added to Sherwood's list
Don: I wonder if this is a result of rushing the rig to market instead of getting things correct first. -- *73 De Mike* *VE3YF _/http://www.ve3yf.com/_* __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] IC-7610 added to Sherwood's list
Rob’s IC-7610 RX performance measurements are now posted, at sherweng.com. The ‘7610 came in twelfth on his list. The real shocker is the BDR: only 119 to 122 dB. That’s 30 dB weaker than the K3S and only 1 dB better than the IC-7300. I guess no one is using these rigs in high-signal conditions. Bragging rights for the K3, KX3 and K3S owners. 73, Don W3FPR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
