Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items

[Darrell Bellerive]

On Friday 11 April 2008 00:31, David Woolley (E.L) wrote:
> Darrell Bellerive wrote:
> > I can't address this for the EU, but when importing into Canada, the
> > Government only charges taxes on the value of the goods, not the shipping
> > and handling.
>
> How do they cope with the common EBay tactic of putting the markup on
> the shipping cost to make the price of the goods look low?  For that
> sort of reason, the UK tactic of considering shipping for commercial
> transactions, and ignoring it for gifts, makes sense.

They don't. They go by the invoice pricing. If it shows the shipping and 
handling as separate line items, they subtract that from the total.

Now if you purposefully have the seller alter the invoice to show a lower 
price for the item, and I higher price for shipping, then you would be 
breaking the law.

I suspect though if the high shipping and handling charges on some eBay 
auctions becomes a big problem and the government feels that they are losing 
revenue, then they may change the law.

-- 
Darrell Bellerive
Amateur Radio Stations VA7TO and VE7CLA
Grand Forks, British Columbia, Canada
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Re: [Bulk] Re: [Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items

[David Woolley (E.L)]

Darrell Bellerive wrote:
I can't address this for the EU, but when importing into Canada, the 
Government only charges taxes on the value of the goods, not the shipping and 
handling.


How do they cope with the common EBay tactic of putting the markup on 
the shipping cost to make the price of the goods look low?  For that 
sort of reason, the UK tactic of considering shipping for commercial 
transactions, and ignoring it for gifts, makes sense.



--
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Elecraft products and more general topics related ham radio"

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Re: [Bulk] Re: [Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items

[Darrell Bellerive]

I can't address this for the EU, but when importing into Canada, the 
Government only charges taxes on the value of the goods, not the shipping and 
handling.

If the invoice does not clearly show the breakdown of the price then the 
government will charge on the total value. That is why it is important for 
exporters to clearly show on the invoice the price of the goods, and the 
price of shipping and handling as separate line items.

The last invoice I have from Elecraft shows that they do this correctly.

Even though there is no duty on amateur radio equipment into Canada, there are 
still charges to pay:
1) Sales taxes. The Federal Goods and Services Tax (GST) at 5% plus any 
provincial sales taxes that are applicable.
2) Brokerage fees. If the package comes across the border via a courier such 
as UPS or Fedex, then they will charge a brokerage fee for importing the 
item. This can be substantial at times. Some couriers have a rate category 
that includes the brokerage fees. Another common practice by the couriers is 
to deliver the package and then bill later for the brokerage fees. A few 
times I thought I had gotten away with no fees, only to get a big bill in the 
mail a month later. A package that comes across via the postal system is only 
charged a flat $5 fee. That is why I now will only us the postal system for 
imports.

Darrell
VA7TO



On Wednesday 09 April 2008 00:21, David Woolley (E.L) wrote:
> > The worst thing is that both duty and taxes are applied to the bottom
> > line of the invoice, the total including both shipping and insurance!
> > Helpful exporters to the EU will bill for those two service items
> > separately, so that duty and VAT are applied only to the true value of
> > the goods. As far as I'm aware, this is a perfectly legal way to
> > minimize the tax liability.
>
> I am pretty sure that that is illegal tax evasion, if they only include
> the goods value on the declaration.  The Revenue and Customs document
> that explains the current rules for postal shipments makes it very
> clear, and cites source legislation, that duty and VAT are based on the
> bottom line price, including shipping and insurance.
>

-- 
Darrell Bellerive
Amateur Radio Stations VA7TO and VE7CLA
Grand Forks, British Columbia, Canada
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[Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items

[Ron Meiring]

No duties or Tax in VK for anything under Aud $1000 (about US $850)
Above $ Aud 1000 you pay 10%.
That is all ! :-)
So you could ask for your K* to be shipped in 2 batches, but than you 
pay twice the shipping. So your better off to just pay the tax.

Ron VK4KDD


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[Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items

[Raymond METZGER]

Hi Ken,

 

You're right, there is no custom duty in the EU for Amateur radio parts.

But. there is a Value Added Tax (VAT) applicable to any domestic sale or
import from abroad. This VAT replaces your Sales Tax (around 6 %, but
depending on the State ?)

The rate of this VAT varies from country to country : in France it is 19.6
%, in Germany 19 %. I don't know how much it is in the UK.

Only small value parcels are not subject to this VAT (I've seen a recent
e-mail on the Reflector from Toby about an increase of such applicable limit
in the EU).

 

I've paid the 19,6 % VAT on my K3 kit, but various smaller items I purchased
from Elecraft have arrived without any VAT charge, although their value
exceeded the limit.

 

Last comment, Ken, UK is part of the European Union !

 

Raymond, F4FNT

K2 # 5.636, K3 # 615.

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Re: [Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items

[David Woolley (E.L)]

Ian White GM3SEK wrote:

Most are free from import duty, or else it's only a few percent. The 


And it is waived if the total duty is less than GBP 7, even if the 
shipment value exceeds the allowance.


killer is the Value Added Tax, which is 17.5% in the UK and even higher 
in some other EU countries. Unless the item is of small value, or is 
below the Customs exemptions for incoming travelers, VAT will normally 
be charged on *all* incoming goods.


The other killer is the GBP 8 handling charge by the Post Office for 
doing the customs processing on items that exceed the allowance. 
Together, these mean that orders over GBP 18 (hopefully more like GBP 
100 at the end of the year, but the necessary Statutory Instruments 
don't yet exist) are very unattractive, particularly ones just over, 
where the GBP 8 is significant.


The other thing that Elecraft need to consider is formalising their 
shipping rates for low value orders.  If one actually looks at the 
official rates and considers a small project item, shipping is 
comparable than the cost of the item.  However, I suspect, that in 
practice, they may be prepared to use postal packets for such items.




The worst thing is that both duty and taxes are applied to the bottom 
line of the invoice, the total including both shipping and insurance! 
Helpful exporters to the EU will bill for those two service items 
separately, so that duty and VAT are applied only to the true value of 
the goods. As far as I'm aware, this is a perfectly legal way to 
minimize the tax liability.


I am pretty sure that that is illegal tax evasion, if they only include 
the goods value on the declaration.  The Revenue and Customs document 
that explains the current rules for postal shipments makes it very 
clear, and cites source legislation, that duty and VAT are based on the 
bottom line price, including shipping and insurance.


Shipping and insurance is not counted for gifts sent directly from one 
individual to another, and the limit is GBP 36, rather than GBP 18, but 
that is not relevant for a company.



--
David Woolley
"The Elecraft list is a forum for the discussion of topics related to 
Elecraft products and more general topics related ham radio"

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Re: [Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items

[Jan Erik Holm]

Sweden has the same system as Iceland however we
have 25 percent TAX instead.
Iceland is not on top of the list!!!

Jim SM2EKM

TF3KX wrote:

The "import duty" is not the problem, but the VAT (somewhat similar to the US
sales tax), which is exceedingly high in many European countries.

I wonder if anyone tops the Icelandic VAT, 24.5%, which is added on the
total package value:  Content price + shipping + insurance.  Additionally, I
may be charged for the paperwork ($10-20), and to top it all they may
occasionally request a permit from the Post and Telegraph Authorities for
"radio components".  This is what I had to go through when ordering my K2 a
couple of months ago.

Last week I received a notice from the customs, which had in its custody an
envelope with a transistor and five ceramic capacitors from Elecraft, marked
with the value of $1.  I managed to convince the customs that these were
replacement parts and I had already paid for the original kit earlier, but I
was lucky this time.

73 - Kristinn, TF3KX




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Re: [Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items

[Ian White GM3SEK]

David Lankshear wrote:


I just hope there's never a need to return a K3 module to Elecraft for 
repair as that could well prove interesting.  In theory, VAT would be 
chargeable on the repair cost, return shipping and insurance as that's 
the service provided,


That's correct. On the other hand, a repair or replacement made free 
under warranty would have no VAT chargeable, except for any return 
shipping and insurance. It all depends on what the bottom line of the 
bill says.


If VAT was paid when the item was originally imported, no more VAT will 
be charged if the item is taken out of the EU and re-imported (eg if a 
K* is taken  on a DXpedition). However, you may be challenged to prove 
that VAT has been paid - so do make sure to keep the shipper's waybill, 
and carry a copy as evidence.


but if they decided to assign their own value to the item, it would 
probably prove impossible to change their assessment.



Only if you couldn't prove what the true value is.

All the above is based on experience - and in similar experience, US 
Customs are even worse. When Tom's Tubes was my distributor for 
amplifier control boards, our name for US Customs at Tampa, FL was 
"Pirates of Caribbean"!


Taking up Kristinn's final comment, I don't think this is off-topic. It 
represents hundreds of dollars to Elecraft customers in Europe, and I 
hope that Elecraft will explore every legal means to minimize this tax 
burden.



--

73 from Ian GM3SEK
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek
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Re: [Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items

[Toby Deinhardt]

Hi Jim,

according to the international agreements surrounding the WTO and 
globalization process, amateur radio equipment is duty free.


You may however, depending on where you are, have to pay the equivalent 
of sales taxes or VAT. Also sometimes the carrier will add charges for 
the service of dealing with customs for you


If I were you, I would check with US customs and/or USPS (UPS, FedEx or 
whomever did the shipping) what the $23 were for and if the duty was 
charged in error.


It is always important that the sender fills out the declaration papers 
correctly.


vy 73 de toby

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Re: [Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items

[TF3KX]

Hi, Dave - thanks for the compliments on our country.  Hope you will be able
to make it for a visit some other time...

You are right in that our taxes (the VAT in this case) are tough and they
are taken "as far as they can".  But to be fair, I believe the system is
also reasonable to some extent, in that broken things, things that need to
be returned or things that are sent as replacements, will only bear the VAT
to the extent of their value.  I have not had much experience with
broken/returned equipment (fortunately), but I believe that if an item
arrives non-functional and needs to be returned I will get the VAT refunded,
or the VAT will be retained by the customs and I will then not pay the VAT
again on the replacement when it arrives.

In the case of the transistor and missing capacitor from Elecraft I could
convince them up front that this was simply a part of the original K2
purchase and had been missing/defect there, and thus I did not have to make
any additional payments.  But my point is that a small envelope that has a
sticker with $1 designation for the content would not automatically be sent
to my home address.  Instead it was about to go through the routine process
with all its paperwork and expenses - in other words, there is no minimum
here below which small shipments are simply exempt.

Well - I guess this is getting a bit off tangent for the Elecraft
reflector...

73 - Kristinn, TF3KX


T. David Yarnes wrote:
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "TF3KX" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 11:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items
> 
> 
>>
>> The "import duty" is not the problem, but the VAT 
>> (somewhat similar to the US
>> sales tax), which is exceedingly high in many European 
>> countries.
>>
>> I wonder if anyone tops the Icelandic VAT, 24.5%, which is 
>> added on the
>> total package value:  Content price + shipping + 
>> insurance.  Additionally, I
>> may be charged for the paperwork ($10-20), and to top it 
>> all they may
>> occasionally request a permit from the Post and Telegraph 
>> Authorities for
>> "radio components".  This is what I had to go through when 
>> ordering my K2 a
>> couple of months ago.
> 
> 
> Kristinn,
> 
> Oh!  That's nasty!  And they charge VAT on your 
> shipping and insurance too!  Very punitive I would say.  I 
> guess the U.K. does that too.  I can sort of understand 
> including shipping, as it is a cost of acquisiton. 
> Insurance, though, seems like a bit of a stretch.  But both 
> seem inequitable if you consider the (fortunate) person who 
> can carry the product in, and avoid the VAT charge for 
> shipping and insurance.  On the other hand, taxes are rarely 
> equitable!
> 
> This raises a question in my mind for you VAT payers.  If 
> you pay the VAT, and then discover that your item has been 
> more or less destroyed in shipping, do you get any refund on 
> the VAT?  What happens on the replacement item, assuming you 
> get one?  Perhaps your comment about the replacement part 
> suggests you wouldn't pay the VAT twice.
> 
> I know Iceland is expensive, and the economy is fragile to 
> some extent, but I didn't realize it was so harsh on its 
> citizens who are forced to import many things, or go 
> without.  However, I know it's a beautiful place with a 
> fascinating history.  We did try to go there a few years 
> ago.  Unfortunately, our cruise ship ran into a hurricane. 
> We apparently got within about 150 miles of Reykjavik, and 
> the captain had to give up.  The props on the ship came out 
> of the water twice!  So, missed the chance to make a small 
> contribution to the economy there.  Very disappointing.
> 
> 
> Dave W7AQK
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items

[KIRBY NESBITT]

I would suggest contacting U.S. Customs and getting the correct tarrif number. 
Amateur gear, particularly U.S. manufactured goods is 100% duty free under 
NAFTA (inbound to Canada).

Kirb - VE6IV
--

- Original Message -
From: Bob Nielsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 4:19 pm
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items
To: elecraft List 

> I had hoped when NAFTA happened that it would eliminate 
> duties  
> between Canada, Mexico and the U.S. (nope, it doesn't that way).
> 
> Since the K2 originally came (as a kit, at least) from the U.S. 
> there  
> may be an exception, but getting it may be another matter.
> 
> Bob, N7XY
> 
> On Apr 8, 2008, at 2:55 PM, Jim Miller wrote:
> > Duty free??  Canada??  NO - I ought a K2 on eBay 
> from Canada and it  
> > arrived
> > with a $23 duty COD bill for the import.
> >
> > 73, de Jim KG0KP
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Ken Kopp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: 
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:47 AM
> > Subject: [Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items
> >
> >
> >> Aren't amateur radio related items duty-free in the UK and EU,
> >> as they are in Canada?  I became aware of this through 
> extensive>> eBay sales.
> >>
> >> 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
> >>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
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> 
> Bob Nielsen
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
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[Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items

[Fern Rivard]

Hi Jim:

You should NOT have had to pay any duty to import that K2 into the USA 
as the origin of manufacture is actually US made. In the past, I have sold some 
collins gear, etc to US ham and there was NOT import tax payable to get into 
the USA. You should apply to your US Customs for a refund.
73 from Fern



- Original Message - 
From: "Jim Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Ken Kopp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items


Duty free??  Canada??  NO - I ought a K2 on eBay from Canada and it arrived
with a $23 duty COD bill for the import.

73, de Jim KG0KP

- Original Message - 
From: "Ken Kopp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:47 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items


> Aren't amateur radio related items duty-free in the UK and EU,
> as they are in Canada?  I became aware of this through extensive
> eBay sales.
>
> 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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-- 
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Re: [Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items

[Bob Nielsen]

I had hoped when NAFTA happened that it would eliminate duties  
between Canada, Mexico and the U.S. (nope, it doesn't that way).


Since the K2 originally came (as a kit, at least) from the U.S. there  
may be an exception, but getting it may be another matter.


Bob, N7XY

On Apr 8, 2008, at 2:55 PM, Jim Miller wrote:
Duty free??  Canada??  NO - I ought a K2 on eBay from Canada and it  
arrived

with a $23 duty COD bill for the import.

73, de Jim KG0KP

- Original Message -
From: "Ken Kopp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:47 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items



Aren't amateur radio related items duty-free in the UK and EU,
as they are in Canada?  I became aware of this through extensive
eBay sales.

73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Bob Nielsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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[Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items

[David Lankshear]

Quote

This raises a question in my mind for you VAT payers.  If 
you pay the VAT, and then discover that your item has been 
more or less destroyed in shipping, do you get any refund on 
the VAT?  What happens on the replacement item, assuming you 
get one?  Perhaps your comment about the replacement part 
suggests you wouldn't pay the VAT twice.

Dave W7AQK

Dave, Don't forget the postal service's "handling" fee, which is another 
addition to the
UK's 17.5% VAT.

Oh, and you'd  likelystand a better chance of piking butter up a porcupine's 
a55 with
a red hot shovel than getting a refund from Her Majesty's Customs and Excise!  

Fortunately, replacement components I've needed have had a shipped value below 
the VAT threshold, so they've come through unchallenged.  HMC&E are a law unto
themselves and once rendered one (constructed) piece of equipment I imported 
into a 
kit, having even dismantled and destroyed some of the components.  Complaints 
in all
directions including my MP received approximately the same response:
Tough!

I just hope there's never a need to return a K3 module to Elecraft for repair as
that could well prove interesting.  In theory, VAT would be chargeable on the 
repair
cost, return shipping and insurance as that's the service provided, but if they 
decided
to assign their own value to the item, it would probably prove impossible to 
change 
their assessment.

73 DaveL  G3TJP
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Re: [Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items

[Jean-François Ménard]

Duty free for amateur product in Canada ... YES. It is not because you  
bought something from Canada you will be duty free you finally  
IMPORT something on your side. So you are responsible of the  
restriction of your country.


I ordered a lot of amateur products from the US... and I only thing I  
pay is standard sale taxes... no other charges (duty)...


Canada Post charge me 5$ for handling. even if it cost 5$ or 1000$.

Duty charges is not equal to taxes duty free is when you pay only  
taxes with no other fees like all ham radio product that come to  
Canada It is supposed to be the same for Canada to US If you  
use FEDEX or UPS they charge a lot only taking your box across the  
border. :-((( I always use USPS or Canada Post.


73

Le 08-04-08 à 17:55, Jim Miller a écrit :

Duty free??  Canada??  NO - I ought a K2 on eBay from Canada and it  
arrived

with a $23 duty COD bill for the import.

73, de Jim KG0KP

- Original Message -
From: "Ken Kopp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:47 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items



Aren't amateur radio related items duty-free in the UK and EU,
as they are in Canada?  I became aware of this through extensive
eBay sales.

73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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===

de Jean-François VA2SS










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Re: [Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items

[Jim Miller]

Duty free??  Canada??  NO - I ought a K2 on eBay from Canada and it arrived
with a $23 duty COD bill for the import.

73, de Jim KG0KP

- Original Message - 
From: "Ken Kopp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:47 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items


> Aren't amateur radio related items duty-free in the UK and EU,
> as they are in Canada?  I became aware of this through extensive
> eBay sales.
>
> 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items

[T. David Yarnes]

- Original Message - 
From: "TF3KX" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items




The "import duty" is not the problem, but the VAT 
(somewhat similar to the US
sales tax), which is exceedingly high in many European 
countries.


I wonder if anyone tops the Icelandic VAT, 24.5%, which is 
added on the
total package value:  Content price + shipping + 
insurance.  Additionally, I
may be charged for the paperwork ($10-20), and to top it 
all they may
occasionally request a permit from the Post and Telegraph 
Authorities for
"radio components".  This is what I had to go through when 
ordering my K2 a

couple of months ago.



Kristinn,

Oh!  That's nasty!  And they charge VAT on your 
shipping and insurance too!  Very punitive I would say.  I 
guess the U.K. does that too.  I can sort of understand 
including shipping, as it is a cost of acquisiton. 
Insurance, though, seems like a bit of a stretch.  But both 
seem inequitable if you consider the (fortunate) person who 
can carry the product in, and avoid the VAT charge for 
shipping and insurance.  On the other hand, taxes are rarely 
equitable!


This raises a question in my mind for you VAT payers.  If 
you pay the VAT, and then discover that your item has been 
more or less destroyed in shipping, do you get any refund on 
the VAT?  What happens on the replacement item, assuming you 
get one?  Perhaps your comment about the replacement part 
suggests you wouldn't pay the VAT twice.


I know Iceland is expensive, and the economy is fragile to 
some extent, but I didn't realize it was so harsh on its 
citizens who are forced to import many things, or go 
without.  However, I know it's a beautiful place with a 
fascinating history.  We did try to go there a few years 
ago.  Unfortunately, our cruise ship ran into a hurricane. 
We apparently got within about 150 miles of Reykjavik, and 
the captain had to give up.  The props on the ship came out 
of the water twice!  So, missed the chance to make a small 
contribution to the economy there.  Very disappointing.



Dave W7AQK


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Re: [Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items

[TF3KX]

The "import duty" is not the problem, but the VAT (somewhat similar to the US
sales tax), which is exceedingly high in many European countries.

I wonder if anyone tops the Icelandic VAT, 24.5%, which is added on the
total package value:  Content price + shipping + insurance.  Additionally, I
may be charged for the paperwork ($10-20), and to top it all they may
occasionally request a permit from the Post and Telegraph Authorities for
"radio components".  This is what I had to go through when ordering my K2 a
couple of months ago.

Last week I received a notice from the customs, which had in its custody an
envelope with a transistor and five ceramic capacitors from Elecraft, marked
with the value of $1.  I managed to convince the customs that these were
replacement parts and I had already paid for the original kit earlier, but I
was lucky this time.

73 - Kristinn, TF3KX


Ken Kopp-3 wrote:
> 
> I've always written "Amateur (Ham) radio item" on the
> customs form.  Never had an item questioned.
> 
> 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/-OT--Importing-low-cost-items-to-Europe-tp16550503p16569684.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items

[Ian White GM3SEK]

Ken Kopp wrote:

Aren't amateur radio related items duty-free in the UK and EU,
as they are in Canada?  I became aware of this through extensive eBay 
sales.


Most are free from import duty, or else it's only a few percent. The 
killer is the Value Added Tax, which is 17.5% in the UK and even higher 
in some other EU countries. Unless the item is of small value, or is 
below the Customs exemptions for incoming travelers, VAT will normally 
be charged on *all* incoming goods.


The worst thing is that both duty and taxes are applied to the bottom 
line of the invoice, the total including both shipping and insurance! 
Helpful exporters to the EU will bill for those two service items 
separately, so that duty and VAT are applied only to the true value of 
the goods. As far as I'm aware, this is a perfectly legal way to 
minimize the tax liability.



--

73 from Ian GM3SEK
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek
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Re: [Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items

[Ken Kopp]

I've always written "Amateur (Ham) radio item" on the
customs form.  Never had an item questioned.

73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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[Elecraft] Import duties on amateur radio items

[Ken Kopp]

Aren't amateur radio related items duty-free in the UK and EU,
as they are in Canada?  I became aware of this through extensive 
eBay sales.


73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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