Re: [Elecraft] K3: very quiet on CW

[Edward R Cole]

OK I had to check this out on "My" K3.  Good band to do this - 
20m  6:00pm local time:


SSB-mode, F2 (2.8-KHz), DSP bw=2.8-KHz, PRE=OFF, ANT=triband yagi, 
S-meter = S5  Plenty of white noise
CW-mode, F2, DSP bw=2.8-KHz, PRE=OFF, same ANT, same  S-meter reading 
and same audio noise level
CW-mode, F4 (400-Hz), DSP bw=0.40 KHz, PRE=OFF, same ANT, S-meter = 
S2 and lowered noise audio
If I adjust DSP bw=2.8 KHz S-meter increases to S5 and noise audio 
equals that I hear with SSB-mode.

AGC=ON for all measurements

So much for "CW is quieter".  No narrower bw is quieter regardless of mode.
BTW F1 (13-KHz) is identical to F2 if DSP is set to 2.8-KHz (as you 
would expect since DSP sets the receive bw and not the filter).


I have F1 enabled for SSB, AM, FM
F2 SSB, AM, CW
F3 no fllter
F4 SSB, CW
F5 no filter

In any mode if I select  F3 or F5 the K3 is VERY quiet, S-meter shows 
S0 (would you expect anything otherwise?)
I actually select F3 when operating DATA-A USB because I take the 1st 
IF from the K3 to ext SDR and do not use the 2nd IF (K3 DSP).

Visit my LINRAD webpage for more on that.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag Business e-mail:
dubus...@gmail.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3: very quiet on CW

[Phil Wheeler]

Of course, and I assume he's using bandwidth control to do that. 

Phil -- Sent from my iPhone 5S

> On Nov 19, 2016, at 12:15, Ken Arck <k...@arcomcontrollers.com> wrote:
> 
> Only if the bandwidth is narrower
> 
> (all things being equal, there is no difference in noise floor between SSB 
> and CW if the bandwidth is identical)
> 
> Ken
> 
> 
> At 11:11 AM 11/19/2016, Phil Wheeler wrote:
>> CW or maybe it's just because CW is quieter than SSB?
>> 
>> Phil W7OX-- Sent from my iPhone 5S
>> 
>> > On Nov 19, 2016, at 10:59, Dale Parfitt <pari...@frontier.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > I don't understand the term quiet in this instance because at HF our noise
>> > floor is limited by manmade, atmospheric and galactic noise. If your noise
>> > floor does not increase when you connect the antenna, something is likely
>> > set very wrong.
>> >
>> > Dale W4OP
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
>> > kbeck...@wi.rr.com
>> > Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 1:17 PM
>> > To: Bill
>> > Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: very quiet on CW
>> >
>> > Welcome to the K3 on CW!
>> >
>> > Yes, it is that quiet!!  Try a KX3 it is even quieter!!!
>> >
>> > This radio opened a new world for me on CW a few years ago.
>> >
>> > Even though you don't have the CW filter, you can still utilize the filters
>> > you have, and DSP filtering to narrow your bandwidth down to 50 Hz.
>> >
>> > Your K3 is an amazing rig.
>> >
>> > Keith
>> > K9GL
>> >
>> > - Original Message -
>> > From: "Bill" <w2...@nycap.rr.com>
>> > To: <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
>> > Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 11:33 AM
>> > Subject: [Elecraft] K3: very quiet on CW
>> >
>> >
>> > I have not used my K3 for CW, so I have no experience with it. So, a
>> > couple of days ago I decided to give it a try, after all - winter is
>> > coming.
>> >
>> > When I switched to CW mode - things got deathly quiet. Quiet as in all
>> > the background noise vanished - along with most of the signals. I could
>> > see them unchanged on the P3 - but, had to turn up the audio gain to
>> > hear them. With the audio gain up, I could hear everything that my other
>> > rigs were hearing - except no background noise. Compared to my past
>> > experience - this is not normal.
>> >
>> > I am using a K3 set up for SSB and only having the 2.7. 2.1, and 6 kc
>> > filters. Some ACG changes have been made to afford improved arm chair
>> > copy on 75 and 40 meters.
>> >
>> > My question: Have I been missing out on using the quietest CW rig ever
>> > made or is there something wrong with my receiver? It just seems too quiet.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Bill W2BLC K-Line
>> >
>> > ___
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
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>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to k...@arcomcontrollers.com
> 
> --
> President and CTO - Arcom Communications
> Makers of repeater controllers and accessories.
> http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/
> Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and
> we offer complete repeater packages!
> AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
> http://www.irlp.net
> "We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!"
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3: very quiet on CW

[Ken Arck]

Only if the bandwidth is narrower

(all things being equal, there is no difference in noise floor 
between SSB and CW if the bandwidth is identical)


Ken


At 11:11 AM 11/19/2016, Phil Wheeler wrote:

CW or maybe it's just because CW is quieter than SSB?

Phil W7OX-- Sent from my iPhone 5S

> On Nov 19, 2016, at 10:59, Dale Parfitt <pari...@frontier.com> wrote:
>
> I don't understand the term quiet in this instance because at HF our noise
> floor is limited by manmade, atmospheric and galactic noise. If your noise
> floor does not increase when you connect the antenna, something is likely
> set very wrong.
>
> Dale W4OP
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
> kbeck...@wi.rr.com
> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 1:17 PM
> To: Bill
> Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: very quiet on CW
>
> Welcome to the K3 on CW!
>
> Yes, it is that quiet!!  Try a KX3 it is even quieter!!!
>
> This radio opened a new world for me on CW a few years ago.
>
> Even though you don't have the CW filter, you can still utilize the filters
> you have, and DSP filtering to narrow your bandwidth down to 50 Hz.
>
> Your K3 is an amazing rig.
>
> Keith
> K9GL
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Bill" <w2...@nycap.rr.com>
> To: <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 11:33 AM
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3: very quiet on CW
>
>
> I have not used my K3 for CW, so I have no experience with it. So, a
> couple of days ago I decided to give it a try, after all - winter is
> coming.
>
> When I switched to CW mode - things got deathly quiet. Quiet as in all
> the background noise vanished - along with most of the signals. I could
> see them unchanged on the P3 - but, had to turn up the audio gain to
> hear them. With the audio gain up, I could hear everything that my other
> rigs were hearing - except no background noise. Compared to my past
> experience - this is not normal.
>
> I am using a K3 set up for SSB and only having the 2.7. 2.1, and 6 kc
> filters. Some ACG changes have been made to afford improved arm chair
> copy on 75 and 40 meters.
>
> My question: Have I been missing out on using the quietest CW rig ever
> made or is there something wrong with my receiver? It just seems too quiet.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill W2BLC K-Line
>
> ___
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--
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of repeater controllers and accessories.
http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/
Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and
we offer complete repeater packages!
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp.net
"We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!"

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Re: [Elecraft] K3: very quiet on CW

[Matt Murphy]

Also be sure you don't have the NR turned on by accident.  In my experience
there is not a signifiant difference in audio amplitude of a signal in CW
mode at 500Hz vs SSB mode at 500Hz when you adjust for the CW offset.

73,
Matt NQ6N

On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:

> Bill,
>
> If you have your 2.7 and 2.1 roofing filters (not the 6kHz) enabled for
> CW, all should be well.
> The total noise heard should be reduced as the DSP bandwidth is reduced
> because the noise bandwidth is narrowed as well.
> However signals which are tuned to the PITCH you have set (default is
> 600Hz) should not be weaker than they are in a wider bandwidth.
> Try using the WIDTH knob to increase the DSP bandwidth, and you should
> hear the total band noise increase.
>
> Yes, the K3 is quiet as far as hearing the internal receiver noise (what
> you hear when the antenna is removed).  When you attach the antenna, you
> should hear an increase in total noise if all is well - how much will
> depend on the DSP bandwidth that is set.
>
> Remember that many SSB stations are running high power, while many CW
> stations are running low power - that may be part of the difference you are
> hearing.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 11/19/2016 12:33 PM, Bill wrote:
>
>> I have not used my K3 for CW, so I have no experience with it. So, a
>> couple of days ago I decided to give it a try, after all - winter is
>> coming.
>>
>> When I switched to CW mode - things got deathly quiet. Quiet as in all
>> the background noise vanished - along with most of the signals. I could
>> see them unchanged on the P3 - but, had to turn up the audio gain to
>> hear them. With the audio gain up, I could hear everything that my other
>> rigs were hearing - except no background noise. Compared to my past
>> experience - this is not normal.
>>
>> I am using a K3 set up for SSB and only having the 2.7. 2.1, and 6 kc
>> filters. Some ACG changes have been made to afford improved arm chair
>> copy on 75 and 40 meters.
>>
>> My question: Have I been missing out on using the quietest CW rig ever
>> made or is there something wrong with my receiver? It just seems too
>> quiet.
>>
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3: very quiet on CW

[Don Wilhelm]

Bill,

If you have your 2.7 and 2.1 roofing filters (not the 6kHz) enabled for 
CW, all should be well.
The total noise heard should be reduced as the DSP bandwidth is reduced 
because the noise bandwidth is narrowed as well.
However signals which are tuned to the PITCH you have set (default is 
600Hz) should not be weaker than they are in a wider bandwidth.
Try using the WIDTH knob to increase the DSP bandwidth, and you should 
hear the total band noise increase.


Yes, the K3 is quiet as far as hearing the internal receiver noise (what 
you hear when the antenna is removed).  When you attach the antenna, you 
should hear an increase in total noise if all is well - how much will 
depend on the DSP bandwidth that is set.


Remember that many SSB stations are running high power, while many CW 
stations are running low power - that may be part of the difference you 
are hearing.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/19/2016 12:33 PM, Bill wrote:

I have not used my K3 for CW, so I have no experience with it. So, a
couple of days ago I decided to give it a try, after all - winter is
coming.

When I switched to CW mode - things got deathly quiet. Quiet as in all
the background noise vanished - along with most of the signals. I could
see them unchanged on the P3 - but, had to turn up the audio gain to
hear them. With the audio gain up, I could hear everything that my other
rigs were hearing - except no background noise. Compared to my past
experience - this is not normal.

I am using a K3 set up for SSB and only having the 2.7. 2.1, and 6 kc
filters. Some ACG changes have been made to afford improved arm chair
copy on 75 and 40 meters.

My question: Have I been missing out on using the quietest CW rig ever
made or is there something wrong with my receiver? It just seems too quiet.

__
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Re: [Elecraft] K3: very quiet on CW

[Phil Wheeler]

CW or maybe it's just because CW is quieter than SSB?

Phil W7OX-- Sent from my iPhone 5S

> On Nov 19, 2016, at 10:59, Dale Parfitt <pari...@frontier.com> wrote:
> 
> I don't understand the term quiet in this instance because at HF our noise
> floor is limited by manmade, atmospheric and galactic noise. If your noise
> floor does not increase when you connect the antenna, something is likely
> set very wrong.
> 
> Dale W4OP
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
> kbeck...@wi.rr.com
> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 1:17 PM
> To: Bill
> Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: very quiet on CW
> 
> Welcome to the K3 on CW!
> 
> Yes, it is that quiet!!  Try a KX3 it is even quieter!!!
> 
> This radio opened a new world for me on CW a few years ago.
> 
> Even though you don't have the CW filter, you can still utilize the filters
> you have, and DSP filtering to narrow your bandwidth down to 50 Hz.
> 
> Your K3 is an amazing rig.
> 
> Keith
> K9GL
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Bill" <w2...@nycap.rr.com>
> To: <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 11:33 AM
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3: very quiet on CW
> 
> 
> I have not used my K3 for CW, so I have no experience with it. So, a
> couple of days ago I decided to give it a try, after all - winter is
> coming.
> 
> When I switched to CW mode - things got deathly quiet. Quiet as in all
> the background noise vanished - along with most of the signals. I could
> see them unchanged on the P3 - but, had to turn up the audio gain to
> hear them. With the audio gain up, I could hear everything that my other
> rigs were hearing - except no background noise. Compared to my past
> experience - this is not normal.
> 
> I am using a K3 set up for SSB and only having the 2.7. 2.1, and 6 kc
> filters. Some ACG changes have been made to afford improved arm chair
> copy on 75 and 40 meters.
> 
> My question: Have I been missing out on using the quietest CW rig ever
> made or is there something wrong with my receiver? It just seems too quiet.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bill W2BLC K-Line
> 
> ___
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Re: [Elecraft] K3: very quiet on CW

[Dale Parfitt]

I don't understand the term quiet in this instance because at HF our noise
floor is limited by manmade, atmospheric and galactic noise. If your noise
floor does not increase when you connect the antenna, something is likely
set very wrong.

Dale W4OP

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
kbeck...@wi.rr.com
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 1:17 PM
To: Bill
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: very quiet on CW

Welcome to the K3 on CW!

Yes, it is that quiet!!  Try a KX3 it is even quieter!!!

This radio opened a new world for me on CW a few years ago.

Even though you don't have the CW filter, you can still utilize the filters
you have, and DSP filtering to narrow your bandwidth down to 50 Hz.

Your K3 is an amazing rig.

Keith
K9GL

- Original Message -
From: "Bill" <w2...@nycap.rr.com>
To: <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 11:33 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3: very quiet on CW


I have not used my K3 for CW, so I have no experience with it. So, a
couple of days ago I decided to give it a try, after all - winter is
coming.

When I switched to CW mode - things got deathly quiet. Quiet as in all
the background noise vanished - along with most of the signals. I could
see them unchanged on the P3 - but, had to turn up the audio gain to
hear them. With the audio gain up, I could hear everything that my other
rigs were hearing - except no background noise. Compared to my past
experience - this is not normal.

I am using a K3 set up for SSB and only having the 2.7. 2.1, and 6 kc
filters. Some ACG changes have been made to afford improved arm chair
copy on 75 and 40 meters.

My question: Have I been missing out on using the quietest CW rig ever
made or is there something wrong with my receiver? It just seems too quiet.

Thanks,

Bill W2BLC K-Line

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Re: [Elecraft] K3: very quiet on CW

[Gary Smith]

Yes, you've been missing out on the 
quietest CW rig ever made.

73,

Gary
KA1J

> I have not used my K3 for CW, so I have no experience with it. So, a
> couple of days ago I decided to give it a try, after all - winter is
> coming.
> 
> When I switched to CW mode - things got deathly quiet. Quiet as in all
> the background noise vanished - along with most of the signals. I
> could see them unchanged on the P3 - but, had to turn up the audio
> gain to hear them. With the audio gain up, I could hear everything
> that my other rigs were hearing - except no background noise. Compared
> to my past experience - this is not normal.
> 
> I am using a K3 set up for SSB and only having the 2.7. 2.1, and 6 kc
> filters. Some ACG changes have been made to afford improved arm chair
> copy on 75 and 40 meters.
> 
> My question: Have I been missing out on using the quietest CW rig ever
> made or is there something wrong with my receiver? It just seems too
> quiet.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bill W2BLC K-Line
> 
> 
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> 



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Re: [Elecraft] K3: very quiet on CW

[Rick WA6NHC]

Make sure that your filter(s) are enabled for that mode...  ;-)

Rick NHC


On 11/19/2016 10:16 AM, kbeck...@wi.rr.com wrote:

Welcome to the K3 on CW!

Yes, it is that quiet!!  Try a KX3 it is even quieter!!!

This radio opened a new world for me on CW a few years ago.

Even though you don't have the CW filter, you can still utilize the filters
you have, and DSP filtering to narrow your bandwidth down to 50 Hz.

Your K3 is an amazing rig.

Keith
K9GL

- Original Message -
From: "Bill" <w2...@nycap.rr.com>
To: <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 11:33 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3: very quiet on CW


I have not used my K3 for CW, so I have no experience with it. So, a
couple of days ago I decided to give it a try, after all - winter is
coming.

When I switched to CW mode - things got deathly quiet. Quiet as in all
the background noise vanished - along with most of the signals. I could
see them unchanged on the P3 - but, had to turn up the audio gain to
hear them. With the audio gain up, I could hear everything that my other
rigs were hearing - except no background noise. Compared to my past
experience - this is not normal.

I am using a K3 set up for SSB and only having the 2.7. 2.1, and 6 kc
filters. Some ACG changes have been made to afford improved arm chair
copy on 75 and 40 meters.

My question: Have I been missing out on using the quietest CW rig ever
made or is there something wrong with my receiver? It just seems too quiet.

Thanks,

Bill W2BLC K-Line

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Re: [Elecraft] K3: very quiet on CW

[kbeck...@wi.rr.com]

Welcome to the K3 on CW!

Yes, it is that quiet!!  Try a KX3 it is even quieter!!!

This radio opened a new world for me on CW a few years ago.

Even though you don't have the CW filter, you can still utilize the filters 
you have, and DSP filtering to narrow your bandwidth down to 50 Hz.

Your K3 is an amazing rig.

Keith
K9GL

- Original Message - 
From: "Bill" <w2...@nycap.rr.com>
To: <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 11:33 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3: very quiet on CW


I have not used my K3 for CW, so I have no experience with it. So, a
couple of days ago I decided to give it a try, after all - winter is
coming.

When I switched to CW mode - things got deathly quiet. Quiet as in all
the background noise vanished - along with most of the signals. I could
see them unchanged on the P3 - but, had to turn up the audio gain to
hear them. With the audio gain up, I could hear everything that my other
rigs were hearing - except no background noise. Compared to my past
experience - this is not normal.

I am using a K3 set up for SSB and only having the 2.7. 2.1, and 6 kc
filters. Some ACG changes have been made to afford improved arm chair
copy on 75 and 40 meters.

My question: Have I been missing out on using the quietest CW rig ever
made or is there something wrong with my receiver? It just seems too quiet.

Thanks,

Bill W2BLC K-Line

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[Elecraft] K3: very quiet on CW

[Bill]

I have not used my K3 for CW, so I have no experience with it. So, a 
couple of days ago I decided to give it a try, after all - winter is 
coming.


When I switched to CW mode - things got deathly quiet. Quiet as in all 
the background noise vanished - along with most of the signals. I could 
see them unchanged on the P3 - but, had to turn up the audio gain to 
hear them. With the audio gain up, I could hear everything that my other 
rigs were hearing - except no background noise. Compared to my past 
experience - this is not normal.


I am using a K3 set up for SSB and only having the 2.7. 2.1, and 6 kc 
filters. Some ACG changes have been made to afford improved arm chair 
copy on 75 and 40 meters.


My question: Have I been missing out on using the quietest CW rig ever 
made or is there something wrong with my receiver? It just seems too quiet.


Thanks,

Bill W2BLC K-Line


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