Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance
As I see it, Elecraft is already pretty darned smart without concentrating on ANY specific area! Tom - W4BQF -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Joe Subich, W4TV Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 10:03 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance On 2015-03-23 8:19 PM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote: As I see it it would be smart for Elecraft to support AM both RX and TX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance
Jim, you said: For us old-timers here, if R.L. Drake focused on AM when they designed and released the Drake 1A (targeted for the SSB mode), they would have gone the way of Compaq, Commodore, Digital Equipment and others. Where did Drake go? Seems like somewhat the same way! Phil W7OX On 3/23/15 2:28 PM, jim wrote: A more gentlemanly form: Elecraft needs to remain competitive in the market. They have limited resources to advance the art. Lose focus and they fritter the valuable resources and die. The other Big 3 do not concern themselves with AM, or for that matter, anything short of selling a new radios at kilo-dollars for new revisions, which Elecraft can do with upgrades that are little or no cost. Elecraft users are the benefactor of their focus. They do NOT need to focus resources on AM. For us old-timers here, if R.L. Drake focused on AM when they designed and released the Drake 1A (targeted for the SSB mode), they would have gone the way of Compaq, Commodore, Digital Equipment and others. Jim W6AIM -Original Message- From: Grant Youngman [mailto:n...@tx.rr.com] Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 2:14 PM To: jim Cc: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance Is it not possible to have a rational discussion on this list without this sort of gentlemanly comment? :( Sent from my iPhone __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance
Turns out my buggy whip is tattered. Guess I will have to find an older buggy whip, or move on into the 70's and use a car. Wow, I just looked, and it is a new century. Time flies. Jim W6AIM It took God 6 days to create the universe, only because he did not have to be downward compatible with anything... -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Grant Youngman Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 12:46 PM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance Turns out (as usual) I'm late to the party .. on AM transmit performance? which is pretty dismal compared to quite a few competitive SDR and POTS (plain old) radios and what COULD be done, especially given a 13 KHz transmit filter. http://www.w1vd.com/ElecraftK3.html Plus it would be good to have a fix (or an explain of how to fix) the receive response difference between sync AM lsb/usb. End of rant ... :) Grant NQ5T Sent from my iPhone __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to jbol...@outlook.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] K3 AM Performance
Turns out (as usual) I'm late to the party .. on AM transmit performance? which is pretty dismal compared to quite a few competitive SDR and POTS (plain old) radios and what COULD be done, especially given a 13 KHz transmit filter. http://www.w1vd.com/ElecraftK3.html Plus it would be good to have a fix (or an explain of how to fix) the receive response difference between sync AM lsb/usb. End of rant ... :) Grant NQ5T Sent from my iPhone __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance
Is it not possible to have a rational discussion on this list without this sort of gentlemanly comment? :( Sent from my iPhone On Mar 23, 2015, at 2:54 PM, jim jbol...@outlook.com wrote: Turns out my buggy whip is tattered. Guess I will have to find an older buggy whip, or move on into the 70's and use a car. Wow, I just looked, and it is a new century. Time flies. Jim W6AIM It took God 6 days to create the universe, only because he did not have to be downward compatible with anything... -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Grant Youngman Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 12:46 PM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance Turns out (as usual) I'm late to the party .. on AM transmit performance? which is pretty dismal compared to quite a few competitive SDR and POTS (plain old) radios and what COULD be done, especially given a 13 KHz transmit filter. http://www.w1vd.com/ElecraftK3.html Plus it would be good to have a fix (or an explain of how to fix) the receive response difference between sync AM lsb/usb. End of rant ... :) Grant NQ5T Sent from my iPhone __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to jbol...@outlook.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance
A more gentlemanly form: Elecraft needs to remain competitive in the market. They have limited resources to advance the art. Lose focus and they fritter the valuable resources and die. The other Big 3 do not concern themselves with AM, or for that matter, anything short of selling a new radios at kilo-dollars for new revisions, which Elecraft can do with upgrades that are little or no cost. Elecraft users are the benefactor of their focus. They do NOT need to focus resources on AM. For us old-timers here, if R.L. Drake focused on AM when they designed and released the Drake 1A (targeted for the SSB mode), they would have gone the way of Compaq, Commodore, Digital Equipment and others. Jim W6AIM -Original Message- From: Grant Youngman [mailto:n...@tx.rr.com] Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 2:14 PM To: jim Cc: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance Is it not possible to have a rational discussion on this list without this sort of gentlemanly comment? :( Sent from my iPhone On Mar 23, 2015, at 2:54 PM, jim jbol...@outlook.com wrote: Turns out my buggy whip is tattered. Guess I will have to find an older buggy whip, or move on into the 70's and use a car. Wow, I just looked, and it is a new century. Time flies. Jim W6AIM It took God 6 days to create the universe, only because he did not have to be downward compatible with anything... -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Grant Youngman Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 12:46 PM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance Turns out (as usual) I'm late to the party .. on AM transmit performance? which is pretty dismal compared to quite a few competitive SDR and POTS (plain old) radios and what COULD be done, especially given a 13 KHz transmit filter. http://www.w1vd.com/ElecraftK3.html Plus it would be good to have a fix (or an explain of how to fix) the receive response difference between sync AM lsb/usb. End of rant ... :) Grant NQ5T Sent from my iPhone __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to jbol...@outlook.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance
I don't know who you consider to be the big 3. Some oh-not-so-old Kenwood radios are excellent on AM. The Orion I/II is truly an excellent AM transmitter (I owned 3 of them, and even now they aren't exactly shabby on any other mode). The Flex-most-anything can be broadcast quality (perhaps you should seek one out). There is a large, vibrant, and growing AM community (who's technology is far younger than CW). Universally, they dis the K3 for its poor (relatively) AM performance, and avoid it (in some quarters with great disdain) for that reason. Frankly, I'm getting too old to keep hauling around a Globe King 500 and a Globe Champion 300. Given the K3 is an SDR -- there is no reason (well, other than mode bias perhaps and a few (100/1000) lines of code that it could not also meet the needs of the AM community and become a popular radio there. I get exceedingly tired at being scolded for being an old f*rt, simply for enjoying an operating mode that is younger than CW. (And, by the way, I like CW too, and SSB, and various digi modes from time to time). There are many groups of hams involved in many different aspects of the hobby. I'd respectfully suggest we might want to be a bit more respectful of ALL, even if they don't fit with our personal ham radio ideology. But that's another subject for a different venue. .. :( Grant NQ5T Sent from my iPhone On Mar 23, 2015, at 4:28 PM, jim jbol...@outlook.com wrote: A more gentlemanly form: Elecraft needs to remain competitive in the market. They have limited resources to advance the art. Lose focus and they fritter the valuable resources and die. The other Big 3 do not concern themselves with AM, or for that matter, anything short of selling a new radios at kilo-dollars for new revisions, which Elecraft can do with upgrades that are little or no cost. Elecraft users are the benefactor of their focus. They do NOT need to focus resources on AM. For us old-timers here, if R.L. Drake focused on AM when they designed and released the Drake 1A (targeted for the SSB mode), they would have gone the way of Compaq, Commodore, Digital Equipment and others. Jim W6AIM -Original Message- From: Grant Youngman [mailto:n...@tx.rr.com] Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 2:14 PM To: jim Cc: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance Is it not possible to have a rational discussion on this list without this sort of gentlemanly comment? :( Sent from my iPhone On Mar 23, 2015, at 2:54 PM, jim jbol...@outlook.com wrote: Turns out my buggy whip is tattered. Guess I will have to find an older buggy whip, or move on into the 70's and use a car. Wow, I just looked, and it is a new century. Time flies. Jim W6AIM It took God 6 days to create the universe, only because he did not have to be downward compatible with anything... -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Grant Youngman Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 12:46 PM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance Turns out (as usual) I'm late to the party .. on AM transmit performance? which is pretty dismal compared to quite a few competitive SDR and POTS (plain old) radios and what COULD be done, especially given a 13 KHz transmit filter. http://www.w1vd.com/ElecraftK3.html Plus it would be good to have a fix (or an explain of how to fix) the receive response difference between sync AM lsb/usb. End of rant ... :) Grant NQ5T Sent from my iPhone __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to jbol...@outlook.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance
As I see it it would be smart for Elecraft to support AM both RX and TX Not everyone sits on the edge of their chair and wants pinched audiosome like to relax sit back and enjoy radio and a nice conversation. I purchased the General coverage Bandpass filters because I also like tolisten to SW, had they not been available I may have not purchased a K3. I had a Flex, and while I did not like the interface, I did like the full sound of the radio. It makes sense for Elecraft to broaden their horizons (and market share), __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance
Grant, No ideology here, just the brutal facts of business. If people do not like the feature set of a product, people will not purchase it. If Elecraft does not appeal to the market segment that buys a radio for the features they offer, they will soon begin to dwindle and ultimately die. Then there are zero resources for anything. I personally think a better CW code reader would be a better use of resources compared to AM. Do you think new buyers of radios are more interested in AM performance, or the ability of the radio to decode CW (for those that don't know CW). Of those two categories of buyers, which one has a larger number of people? A company (or senator, or representative, or president, or any elected official) MUST focus their efforts, or fall prey to competition that does focus on the majority. If not, they perish. Technology, while important, is not the only factor. There are more CW operators in the world than there are AM'ers. That fact makes Elecraft's decision easier. Focus on CW as opposed to AM. They did this very same thing with the recent release of the synth. The new synth makes little difference on SSB (and AM for that matter) and has it's impact on CW. BUT not that much of an impact on a band that is not crowded. It only shines on a crowded CW band like Sweepstakes, 160 meter contests, and the like. My interest is CW, without a computer. Hence my decision to go with the K3. I had a TS-480, and it worked great and met my CW needs. There was no real reason to change to a K3, as for my style of operation, the 480 was good. But the 480 did not have a panadaptor or a roofing filter, that was important to me. So, Kenwood lost a customer, and Elecraft picked one up. Those are the realities of the market. If Kenwood loses to many customer, the will go the way of the Globe's, the Vikings, the Drakes, the Eicos, the Heathkits, the Hallicrafters, the Collins. The list goes on and on and on. BTW, I am an old phart too. Jim W6AIM -Original Message- From: Grant Youngman [mailto:n...@tx.rr.com] Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 2:55 PM To: jim Cc: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance I don't know who you consider to be the big 3. Some oh-not-so-old Kenwood radios are excellent on AM. The Orion I/II is truly an excellent AM transmitter (I owned 3 of them, and even now they aren't exactly shabby on any other mode). The Flex-most-anything can be broadcast quality (perhaps you should seek one out). There is a large, vibrant, and growing AM community (who's technology is far younger than CW). Universally, they dis the K3 for its poor (relatively) AM performance, and avoid it (in some quarters with great disdain) for that reason. Frankly, I'm getting too old to keep hauling around a Globe King 500 and a Globe Champion 300. Given the K3 is an SDR -- there is no reason (well, other than mode bias perhaps and a few (100/1000) lines of code that it could not also meet the needs of the AM community and become a popular radio there. I get exceedingly tired at being scolded for being an old f*rt, simply for enjoying an operating mode that is younger than CW. (And, by the way, I like CW too, and SSB, and various digi modes from time to time). There are many groups of hams involved in many different aspects of the hobby. I'd respectfully suggest we might want to be a bit more respectful of ALL, even if they don't fit with our personal ham radio ideology. But that's another subject for a different venue. .. :( Grant NQ5T Sent from my iPhone On Mar 23, 2015, at 4:28 PM, jim jbol...@outlook.com wrote: A more gentlemanly form: Elecraft needs to remain competitive in the market. They have limited resources to advance the art. Lose focus and they fritter the valuable resources and die. The other Big 3 do not concern themselves with AM, or for that matter, anything short of selling a new radios at kilo-dollars for new revisions, which Elecraft can do with upgrades that are little or no cost. Elecraft users are the benefactor of their focus. They do NOT need to focus resources on AM. For us old-timers here, if R.L. Drake focused on AM when they designed and released the Drake 1A (targeted for the SSB mode), they would have gone the way of Compaq, Commodore, Digital Equipment and others. Jim W6AIM -Original Message- From: Grant Youngman [mailto:n...@tx.rr.com] Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 2:14 PM To: jim Cc: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance Is it not possible to have a rational discussion on this list without this sort of gentlemanly comment? :( Sent from my iPhone On Mar 23, 2015, at 2:54 PM, jim jbol...@outlook.com wrote: Turns out my buggy whip is tattered. Guess I will have to find an older buggy whip, or move on into the 70's and use a car. Wow, I just looked, and it is a new century. Time flies. Jim W6AIM It took
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance
I use AM mode from time to time. If AM is eliminated, CW will be next. AM and CW modes are making a resurgence, and both can be accommodated. I'm glad that Elecraft included AM in the K3. 73, Dwayne WV5I __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance
Looks like we are drifting far OT and afield of the original poster's intent. Let's close the OT part of this thread and get it back to optimization of the K3's AM freq response. Also, keep snide pro/com AM comments off of this list, as that is outside of the guidelines. 73, Eric List Moderator elecraft.com On 3/23/2015 5:28 PM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote: I never seen the point of the CW decoder. If I'm going to use a decoder I may as well just use RTTY or one of the PSK modes. From: Tony Estep estept...@gmail.com To: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 7:02 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 5:41 PM, jim jbol...@outlook.com wrote: ...a better CW code reader would be a better use... == Well, it's true, the CW reader gets complaints on here, but I have a different take. I had never tried it until a couple of nights ago -- in fact, I had to look in the manual to see how to turn it on. But I ran across a long-winded qso at about 85 wpm and I couldn't copy a doggone thing. I decided to try the CW reader to see if it was indeed CW. Sure enough, the CW reader started revealing words and then sentences and paragraphs. It missed words, but there was plenty enough copy to follow the whole conversation. I also tried my software CW reader; it got nothing. If you think about it you can see that a CW reader has lots of challenges, way more than an FSK reader. So it looks to me as if that little processor inside the K3 is doing pretty well. Maybe it could be better, but it seems usable as is. And really, the average qso takes place at more like 25, which shouldn't present a problem for plain old ear copy. 73, Tony KT0NY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to hlyin...@yahoo.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to elist_c...@elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance
Yea, Drake did. They did not adapt to the market. And they are long gone. Drake followed the path of performance (especially receiver, look at the R7 series and R8B as an example) as opposed to the path that the market wanted, which was bells and whistles, general coverage, built in keyers, etc. The Big 3 gave the market what they wanted, and Drake died a slow death. Just like Heathkit. Just like Collins. Just like Swan. Just like. Jim W6AIM -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Phil Wheeler Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 3:03 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance Jim, you said: For us old-timers here, if R.L. Drake focused on AM when they designed and released the Drake 1A (targeted for the SSB mode), they would have gone the way of Compaq, Commodore, Digital Equipment and others. Where did Drake go? Seems like somewhat the same way! Phil W7OX On 3/23/15 2:28 PM, jim wrote: A more gentlemanly form: Elecraft needs to remain competitive in the market. They have limited resources to advance the art. Lose focus and they fritter the valuable resources and die. The other Big 3 do not concern themselves with AM, or for that matter, anything short of selling a new radios at kilo-dollars for new revisions, which Elecraft can do with upgrades that are little or no cost. Elecraft users are the benefactor of their focus. They do NOT need to focus resources on AM. For us old-timers here, if R.L. Drake focused on AM when they designed and released the Drake 1A (targeted for the SSB mode), they would have gone the way of Compaq, Commodore, Digital Equipment and others. Jim W6AIM -Original Message- From: Grant Youngman [mailto:n...@tx.rr.com] Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 2:14 PM To: jim Cc: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance Is it not possible to have a rational discussion on this list without this sort of gentlemanly comment? :( Sent from my iPhone __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to jbol...@outlook.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance
I am done pontificating on this matter. For further info, pick up a Marketing 101 text book. Back to playing radio Jim W6AIM -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of jim Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 3:57 PM To: 'Phil Wheeler'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance Yea, Drake did. They did not adapt to the market. And they are long gone. Drake followed the path of performance (especially receiver, look at the R7 series and R8B as an example) as opposed to the path that the market wanted, which was bells and whistles, general coverage, built in keyers, etc. The Big 3 gave the market what they wanted, and Drake died a slow death. Just like Heathkit. Just like Collins. Just like Swan. Just like. Jim W6AIM -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Phil Wheeler Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 3:03 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance Jim, you said: For us old-timers here, if R.L. Drake focused on AM when they designed and released the Drake 1A (targeted for the SSB mode), they would have gone the way of Compaq, Commodore, Digital Equipment and others. Where did Drake go? Seems like somewhat the same way! Phil W7OX On 3/23/15 2:28 PM, jim wrote: A more gentlemanly form: Elecraft needs to remain competitive in the market. They have limited resources to advance the art. Lose focus and they fritter the valuable resources and die. The other Big 3 do not concern themselves with AM, or for that matter, anything short of selling a new radios at kilo-dollars for new revisions, which Elecraft can do with upgrades that are little or no cost. Elecraft users are the benefactor of their focus. They do NOT need to focus resources on AM. For us old-timers here, if R.L. Drake focused on AM when they designed and released the Drake 1A (targeted for the SSB mode), they would have gone the way of Compaq, Commodore, Digital Equipment and others. Jim W6AIM -Original Message- From: Grant Youngman [mailto:n...@tx.rr.com] Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 2:14 PM To: jim Cc: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance Is it not possible to have a rational discussion on this list without this sort of gentlemanly comment? :( Sent from my iPhone __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to jbol...@outlook.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to jbol...@outlook.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance
I never seen the point of the CW decoder. If I'm going to use a decoder I may as well just use RTTY or one of the PSK modes. From: Tony Estep estept...@gmail.com To: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 7:02 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 5:41 PM, jim jbol...@outlook.com wrote: ...a better CW code reader would be a better use... == Well, it's true, the CW reader gets complaints on here, but I have a different take. I had never tried it until a couple of nights ago -- in fact, I had to look in the manual to see how to turn it on. But I ran across a long-winded qso at about 85 wpm and I couldn't copy a doggone thing. I decided to try the CW reader to see if it was indeed CW. Sure enough, the CW reader started revealing words and then sentences and paragraphs. It missed words, but there was plenty enough copy to follow the whole conversation. I also tried my software CW reader; it got nothing. If you think about it you can see that a CW reader has lots of challenges, way more than an FSK reader. So it looks to me as if that little processor inside the K3 is doing pretty well. Maybe it could be better, but it seems usable as is. And really, the average qso takes place at more like 25, which shouldn't present a problem for plain old ear copy. 73, Tony KT0NY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to hlyin...@yahoo.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 5:41 PM, jim jbol...@outlook.com wrote: ...a better CW code reader would be a better use... == Well, it's true, the CW reader gets complaints on here, but I have a different take. I had never tried it until a couple of nights ago -- in fact, I had to look in the manual to see how to turn it on. But I ran across a long-winded qso at about 85 wpm and I couldn't copy a doggone thing. I decided to try the CW reader to see if it was indeed CW. Sure enough, the CW reader started revealing words and then sentences and paragraphs. It missed words, but there was plenty enough copy to follow the whole conversation. I also tried my software CW reader; it got nothing. If you think about it you can see that a CW reader has lots of challenges, way more than an FSK reader. So it looks to me as if that little processor inside the K3 is doing pretty well. Maybe it could be better, but it seems usable as is. And really, the average qso takes place at more like 25, which shouldn't present a problem for plain old ear copy. 73, Tony KT0NY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance
The 1-A is one of my five all-time best radios. Small, simple, a game-changer, got the job done. It's a delight to use. Drake didn't leave the Ham radio market because of AM, or focus on AM, or lack of focus on AM. They probably left because in the end they couldn't price compete with relatively cheap offshore radios. And decided the cable TV market was more profitable and could increase the length of yachts, whatever. The 1-A was a benchmark. SSB only. CW not even considered, so don't blame it on AM or not. But a marvelous radio, ignored for its novelty by a lot of hams. Now, they're expensive for a reason. It was the 2-A and 2-B that made the transition. Beautiful radios. The R-4B for example (properly aligned) is one if the VERY best CW/SSB radios from the era - in many ways better than Collins. And a pretty good AM receiver for its genre. The R-4C had issues, but that's for a different list ... ;) Grant NQ5T Sent from my iPhone On Mar 23, 2015, at 5:02 PM, Phil Wheeler w...@socal.rr.com wrote: Jim, you said: For us old-timers here, if R.L. Drake focused on AM when they designed and released the Drake 1A (targeted for the SSB mode), they would have gone the way of Compaq, Commodore, Digital Equipment and others. Where did Drake go? Seems like somewhat the same way! Phil W7OX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance
On 03/23/2015 03:57 PM, jim wrote: Yea, Drake did. They did not adapt to the market. And they are long gone. ... The Big 3 gave the market what they wanted, and Drake died a slow death. Actually R. L. Drake company is still very much in business: http://www.rldrake.com/ Alan N1AL (ex Drake employee) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance
Where is the 4.5 on Receive, Is in in DSP or the Audio chain? I enjoy listening to SW and I have the AM and The FM filters and though it sounds OK a little more Bandwidth (on receive) would be nice. From: Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance --- snip --- Other than the apparent offset between Sync-L and Sync-U, the K3 does a pretty fair job of supporting AM TX and RX within the limits of the 6 Hz AM filter. The question is whether they should bother to support wider AM (Enhanced AM) to 4 KHz audio bandwidth as they do with ESSB. --- snip --- __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance
On 2015-03-23 8:19 PM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote: As I see it it would be smart for Elecraft to support AM both RX and TX Other than the apparent offset between Sync-L and Sync-U, the K3 does a pretty fair job of supporting AM TX and RX within the limits of the 6 Hz AM filter. The question is whether they should bother to support wider AM (Enhanced AM) to 4 KHz audio bandwidth as they do with ESSB. I'm of the opinion that transmit audio bandwidth needs to remain consistent with communications quality which is defined variously as 2.7 or 3.0 KHz depending on whether the definition uses highest modulating frequency or necessary bandwidth. As an FCC official famously said at the FCC Forum in Dayton, If you guys what to play with Hi-Fi, apply for a broadcast license. The use of excessive bandwidth is not simply bad manners, it is against the rules. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2015-03-23 8:19 PM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote: As I see it it would be smart for Elecraft to support AM both RX and TX Not everyone sits on the edge of their chair and wants pinched audiosome like to relax sit back and enjoy radio and a nice conversation. I purchased the General coverage Bandpass filters because I also like tolisten to SW, had they not been available I may have not purchased a K3. I had a Flex, and while I did not like the interface, I did like the full sound of the radio. It makes sense for Elecraft to broaden their horizons (and market share), __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to li...@subich.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance
On 2015-03-23 10:41 PM, Harry Yingst wrote: Where is the 4.5 on Receive, Is in in DSP or the Audio chain? Both. The maximum hi cut one can set in the DSP is 4200 Hz and there is a 4-pole Chebyshev analog audio lowpass filter (-6 dB at about 4500 Hz and -40 dB at about 10 KHz) between the ADC and headphone/speaker amplifiers on the DSP board. See: http://www.elecraft.com/K3/mods/K3_DSP_LP_Filter_Install_Rev_A.pdf 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2015-03-23 10:41 PM, Harry Yingst wrote: Where is the 4.5 on Receive, Is in in DSP or the Audio chain? I enjoy listening to SW and I have the AM and The FM filters and though it sounds OK a little more Bandwidth (on receive) would be nice. From: Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 AM Performance --- snip --- Other than the apparent offset between Sync-L and Sync-U, the K3 does a pretty fair job of supporting AM TX and RX within the limits of the 6 Hz AM filter. The question is whether they should bother to support wider AM (Enhanced AM) to 4 KHz audio bandwidth as they do with ESSB. --- snip --- __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
