Re: [Elecraft] K3 Bandswitching-My experiences to Date
When I want to QSY to 6 meters, I expect to punch a button that says 6M or 50. If a friend comes over to operate my K3, I don't want to have to point to a yellow sticky note hanging from a shelf, and then spend 10 minutes briefing them on the intricacies of using the user-programmed memories. This issue isn't about finding other clever ways to institute a common and expected function; it's about justifying Elecraft's choice to package the radio in a specific footprint. For its size, the ergonomics are excellent, but it's about 2 too narrow. With that extra 2, they could have fit a keypad. IMHO. 73, Steve NN4X On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 9:04 PM, David and Dianne on Comcast [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Everyone, In hanging around the K3 booth in Dayton this year (some would say I was 'lurking' around the booth) I overheard several K3 prospective owners pressing Wayne on the absence of dedicated bandswitches and bandstacking registers. Having been a user of Icom and Ten Tec gear for many years, I too admit that this was one of my reservations when first considering my K3 purchase over a year ago. Now after almost four months of K3 use, I wanted to past a comment directed at those considering a K3 who believe that this issue may be a deal breaker. IMO it is not. It takes a bit of time and study to adapt to this approach of Elecraft's UI, but the K3 has some remarkable and flexible alternatives. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Bandswitching-My experiences to Date
Steve and All, A point well taken Steve. But setting up the the memories this way (if really deemed necessary!) is an owner convenience really. And if you don't use it yourself enough to do it without a sticky note, then it probably wasn't that convenient in the first place. If I had set it up this way, and a friend wanted to use the radio, I'd just tell him to use the regular bandswitch buttons. A visitor will have enough trouble operating any strange rig, so you don't want to add to the problem with operating tricks the radio allows you to implement--at least not initially. I'm a little mystified by the passion some folks seem to have about accelerating the band switching process. Do you really switch bands that much? I suppose some do. And my judgement may be tainted a bit right now by the lack of activity on a bunch of the bands higher up. For me, I'm usually just going between 3, or maybe 4 bands, which are all contiguous on the band rotation. Pushing the up/down bandswitch works pretty well for that. I'm just grateful they put both an up and down switch on the K3 instead of making you rotate all the way through like you have to do on rigs like the Argonaut V. When I had one of those radios, I found it very frustrating to have to go all the way around to get from 30 meters back to 40 meters. I sort of solved that by putting one VFO on one band, and the other VFO on the other. Then I could just use the A/B button. Nonetheless, I suspect that you are more or less correct that a couple more inches or so on the front panel would have accomodated a bandswitching keypad. It might have accomodated 2 or 3 more knobs as well for other things. But it would have added considerably to the volume of the radio. For some this would have been a good thing, and for others it would have been a waste. I suspect all of us have at least 1 or 2 changes we would like to see in the K3. Problem is, our wish lists probably don't always match up very consistently. The process of deciding how to design a radio like this seems very complex to me. Just think about how many questions need to be considered regarding each control and feature. It really suggests some powerful product/market research is needed, and to be honest, I don't think Elecraft is big enough to provide/engage/conduct this type of study. So, we end up with someone's (Wayne's mostly I suppose) best guess. And it sure won't be perfect. Wayne did a pretty good job I think, but it ain't perfect! But thank goodness he's an operator, in addition to being the designer, so he didn't saddle us with a multitude of compromises like Yaesu does perhaps? Then there are radios like Ten-Tec Orions, and Icom 7700/7800's, that put everything under the sun on front panel. But look at the size of those radios! You almost have to renovate your operating desk to accomodate them. And when you look inside of one of them one of the first things you notice is a ton of wasted space. But, if you aren't going to be moving the radio around much, that's very possibly quite acceptable. The K3 is a compact (but not too compact?), but reasonably full featured, radio. A lot of things were left out though, and many of them will perhaps be incorporated in the K4! The K3 was a substantial improvement on the K2, and the K4 will be a substantial improvement on the K3. If the next set of changes aren't all that substantial, they might just call it the K3A I don't even know if a K4 is on the drawing board, but I bet pieces of it at least are already in Wayne's head. A keypad band entry may very will be high on the list. I'd almost bet a bandscope is high on the list. QRO folks will be glad to learn that, out of the box, it will have provision for negative ALC! I'm being a bit facetious, but I would probably like having these features myself--some just in case, but appreciated nonetheless. We are all still looking for the perfect radio. If and when you think you have found it, you can bet that a bunch of others will be loudly lamenting that it doesn't have this or that. My advice to folks who are excessively frustrated by omissions on the K3 is to start dropping your loose change in a cookie jar to save up for the K4. A friend of mine recently told me he saved up nearly $1200 by just dropping the quarters in a jar he got in change, mostly from stopping after work for a beer! This made me realize a couple of things: 1. You can really save a bunch of money by doing this with loose change; 2. My friend probably drinks too much! Nevertheless, I think you have plenty of time. Dave W7AQK - Original Message - From: S Sacco [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 4:59 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Bandswitching-My experiences to Date When I want to QSY to 6 meters, I expect to punch a button that says 6M or 50. If a friend comes over to operate my K3
RE: [Elecraft] K3 Bandswitching-My experiences to Date
I'm a little mystified by the passion some folks seem to have about accelerating the band switching process. Do you really switch bands that much? I suppose some do. The issue (at least for me) isn't speed. The issue is reliability and user friendliness. The reason why so many of us are concocting band-switching mechanisms using the various memory options is that the supplied band switch buttons, at least with the present firmware, can become corrupted with other frequencies when listening outside the ham bands. I find this unsettling. In my opinion there are at least two controls on a ham rig that should be totally intuitive, robust and definitive in their operation - the on/off switch and the band switch. The band switch, in its present form, does not meet these criteria. For the K4 I would recommend a dedicated switch with detents, tactile/audio feedback, a DEDICATED keypad or some other method of accomplishing this. For the K3, I am hopeful that a future firmware release will make the current band switch operate as expected as well as provide for a convenient method for shortwave listening and general browsing. ... Craig AC0DS ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] K3 Bandswitching-My experiences to Date
Hi Everyone, In hanging around the K3 booth in Dayton this year (some would say I was 'lurking' around the booth) I overheard several K3 prospective owners pressing Wayne on the absence of dedicated bandswitches and bandstacking registers. Having been a user of Icom and Ten Tec gear for many years, I too admit that this was one of my reservations when first considering my K3 purchase over a year ago. Now after almost four months of K3 use, I wanted to past a comment directed at those considering a K3 who believe that this issue may be a deal breaker. IMO it is not. It takes a bit of time and study to adapt to this approach of Elecraft's UI, but the K3 has some remarkable and flexible alternatives. Over the years I have never had much use for transceiver memories as implemented by most JA manufacturers, but he K3' approach to memories and their flexibility is awesome once you master them. Between general memories, memories assignable to the number keys and the 'within band' memories you can quickly replicate something very similar to dedicated bandswitches. One of the best tutorials on this is found on the K3 Wiki website. If you have not discovered it you should look it up. Having now programed the K3's number keys as memories for a portion of each band and the 'within band' memories (M1-M4) to another portion of the same band, I have something approaching dedicated bandswitches. It took a while to discover how to do this but now changing bands is second nature. I almost never use the K3 up and down bandswitch any more, The programmable memories are just that much quicker. I had a talk with Wayne about this at Dayton. He asked if I would consider sharing my personal comments on the reflector. Thus my post here. If at some time in the future when the K3 wish list has shrunken down, should Elecraft develop an outboard combination keypad/bandswitch along the lines of what Icom offered for the venerable IC-751A way back, I'm sure some of us would welcome it but until then I find the use of programmed memories for bandswitching to be just fine. My $.02 YMMV 73 de N1LQ-Dave ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Bandswitching-My experiences to Date
Dave: (Another fine LQ) I'd still prefer the ICOM/TenTec method of bandswitch but maybe once we get the LP-Pan and PowerSDR running full time, band changing will be 'point and click'. I plan to use a dedicated PC for the K3 and a separate PC for internet and other forms of entertainment. I know many people who have Flex rigs do the same. If this system works as it should, the K3 would like using a Flex5000 but with a cw transmitter that works as it should. The LP-PAN should provide even more entertainment as a separate receiver although I'm not sure how one will switch the tuning between the K3 and the PAN. Perhaps this will all come clear once we get these gadgets hooked up. Steve Ellington [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: David and Dianne on Comcast [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 9:04 PM Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Bandswitching-My experiences to Date Hi Everyone, In hanging around the K3 booth in Dayton this year (some would say I was 'lurking' around the booth) I overheard several K3 prospective owners pressing Wayne on the absence of dedicated bandswitches and bandstacking registers. Having been a user of Icom and Ten Tec gear for many years, I too admit that this was one of my reservations when first considering my K3 purchase over a year ago. Now after almost four months of K3 use, I wanted to past a comment directed at those considering a K3 who believe that this issue may be a deal breaker. IMO it is not. It takes a bit of time and study to adapt to this approach of Elecraft's UI, but the K3 has some remarkable and flexible alternatives. Over the years I have never had much use for transceiver memories as implemented by most JA manufacturers, but he K3' approach to memories and their flexibility is awesome once you master them. Between general memories, memories assignable to the number keys and the 'within band' memories you can quickly replicate something very similar to dedicated bandswitches. One of the best tutorials on this is found on the K3 Wiki website. If you have not discovered it you should look it up. Having now programed the K3's number keys as memories for a portion of each band and the 'within band' memories (M1-M4) to another portion of the same band, I have something approaching dedicated bandswitches. It took a while to discover how to do this but now changing bands is second nature. I almost never use the K3 up and down bandswitch any more, The programmable memories are just that much quicker. I had a talk with Wayne about this at Dayton. He asked if I would consider sharing my personal comments on the reflector. Thus my post here. If at some time in the future when the K3 wish list has shrunken down, should Elecraft develop an outboard combination keypad/bandswitch along the lines of what Icom offered for the venerable IC-751A way back, I'm sure some of us would welcome it but until then I find the use of programmed memories for bandswitching to be just fine. My $.02 YMMV 73 de N1LQ-Dave ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.2/1471 - Release Date: 5/28/2008 5:33 PM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Bandswitching-My experiences to Date
Hi Steve, With LP-PAN, Ham Radio Deluxe and PowerSDR, K3 rig control is indeed point and click You can change bands on the K3 buy clicking on the associated band buttons in PowerSDR. In addition, PowerSDR provides 3 band registers per band (aka Icom). You can change modes and frequency by pointing and clicking in the panadapter display or you can click and drag and watch the K3 change frequency. Any displayed signal in the panadapter that enters the green vertical column represents the selected passband of the K3 and can be heard on the K3 speaker. To switch tuning from PowerSDR to the K3 requires NO action because rig control is full duplex. Turn the freq dial on the K3 and the PowerSDR panadapter display is updated in real time. You can change bands, modes, etc on the K3 and PowerSDR is updated. On top of all that, PowerSDR is a full featured SDR dual channel receiver. Connect a set of speakers to your computer sound card and you can listen to 3 in-band frequencies at once (one on the K3 and two via PowerSDR). PowerSDR also provides variable bandwidth, Noise Reduction, Noise Blanking and popular modes on it's built in SDR receiver. If you already own a shack computer for logging, then the addition of LP-PAN and PowerSDR is very worthwhile. As you say, it's like having a Flex5000 with a K3 control panel, truly the best of both worlds! LP-PAN: http://www.telepostinc.com/LP-PAN.html PowerSDR/IF Stage: http://www.wu2x.com/sdr.html#powersdr Ham Radio Deluxe: http://www.ham-radio-deluxe.com/ We owe a lot to the people who have created the outstanding software programs linked above. Thank you Messer's Scott McClements and Simon Brown! And of course Larry Phipps (N8LP) for his LP-PAN hardware. Let's see, did I miss somebody? Of course, the entire team at Elecraft for designing the K3 which has brought back the fun in my HAM radio operating! Best 73, Frank - W6NEK - Original Message - From: n4lq [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: David and Dianne on Comcast [EMAIL PROTECTED]; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Bandswitching-My experiences to Date Dave: (Another fine LQ) I'd still prefer the ICOM/TenTec method of bandswitch but maybe once we get the LP-Pan and PowerSDR running full time, band changing will be 'point and click'. I plan to use a dedicated PC for the K3 and a separate PC for internet and other forms of entertainment. I know many people who have Flex rigs do the same. If this system works as it should, the K3 would like using a Flex5000 but with a cw transmitter that works as it should. The LP-PAN should provide even more entertainment as a separate receiver although I'm not sure how one will switch the tuning between the K3 and the PAN. Perhaps this will all come clear once we get these gadgets hooked up. Steve Ellington ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Bandswitching-My experiences to Date
I posted this idea on May 9. I got several favorable replies and thanks for it. I still find it very efficient, so I offer this again. There is plenty more memory space left to add data bands. - A complete BAND SWITCHING scheme using 23 memories I tried using the quick memories 0-9 to store band data, modes, filters, and other parameters (Douglas Zweibel's message of March 10). Then I thought about how most bands are split into CW and phone sub- bands that need separate mode and filter settings. So, I took it a step further. I offer this as a universal band management scheme. I assigned each CW and phone band to a separate memory number, starting with memory 10. These are selected by VFO A (with the help of text labels). I set VFO A to the bottom of the (CW or phone) sub-band, and VFO B to the top of that sub-band. That enables band scanning (Manual p. 37). And of course, I set modes and filters appropriately. I labeled each memory like this, starting with #10: 10. 160C -- the 160m CW portion 11. 160S -- the 160m (SSB) phone portion 12. 80 C 13. 80 S 14. *60 1 -- on 60m, the last digit is the channel number (1-5) 15. *60 2The *asterisk sets up channel-hop scanning (Manual p.37) (not yet enabled in firmware) ... etc., ending with: 33. 6 S -- the 6m phone band Quick memories M1-M4 supplement these entries PER-BAND. For 20-10m, I set the DX beacon frequencies to M4. M1-M3 are open for quick entries, nets, etc. This set-up took me about an hour, but it's good learning practice! I now have instant reference to ALL my band boundaries, right on my K3 screen. So, how does it play? Tap MV and the big knob becomes a super band switch (without detents). You want speed? Duplicate just your favorite bands onto any quick memories 0-9. Memories 10-33 remain, keeping ALL the bands stored for you. If (when) you tap VM by mistake and override a quick memory (!) you can find it again, with all your settings, and transfer it back to the quick memory. 2. To hop bands with instant return to the same frequency, don't forget the original BAND switch! 56 non-quick memories remain available. I set one for CB (11m USA Citizen's Band) -- Why not? I can scan it to check for 10m skip. I can use others for SWL bands or favorite broadcast stations (one on VFO A and another on VFO B). Now I fully enjoy the navigation capability of the K3. Windy KM5Q Santa Fe, NM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
