[Elecraft] K3 Complexity
Hi Elecrafters, I am the proud owner (are as opposed to the unproud owners) of K3 #647. And a K2 and K1 before it. I strongly believe in the Elecraft business model, with its closeness to the customer and excellent service in support of world class equipment made here in our country (well, some of it), yet relatively affordable. Not an easy task, but the Aptodians have done it. But I, too, have become concerned that the K3 is becoming just another menu driven radio - with so many parameters that the result is brain paralysis. How many AGC parameters does one person need, even with different modes and band conditions? How many angels really can dance on the head of a pin? When is enough enough? I'd rather see Elecraft complete the original feature list. What ever happened to synchronous detection? The hope of a keyboard connection? Or for that manner, a tightly integrated panadapter? An up-to-date, complete owner's manual? In my view, we've done a year of beta testing, and it is time to move on. John W9LHG __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Complexity
Hi John, Thanks for the feedback. concerned that the K3 is becoming just another menu driven radio - with so many parameters that the result is brain paralysis. We only add new menu entries after very careful consideration. Any new entries come up at factory defaults, and most users who are not interested in that function can just leave them there. Most of them are in the advanced category are only visible in Tech Mode, reducing the chance of changing them accidentally. If you do change one, you can see what the default value is by tapping DISP while in that menu entry. (The default is the first thing shown, in parentheses.) How many AGC parameters does one person need, even with different modes and band conditions? The only AGC menu entry we've added since the pleistocene (2007) is AGC DCY, which is used to turn on an optional soft-decay characteristic. We did lots of lab tests, including building a highly stable 4-signal oscillator, before we concluded that an alternative AGC characteristic would be useful in pileup conditions. This had to be a menu entry, because we knew traditional AGC decay would still be preferred by most users. I recommend using all of the AGC defaults except in special circumstances. Others are free to pitch their favored settings. I'd rather see Elecraft complete the original feature list. What ever happened to synchronous detection? Lyle has been working on that, but basic performance issues get attention first. For example, there were claims of high-frequency AF artifacts that he had to investigate. Turns out we have a lot of customers with incredibly good hearing :) We'll have more to report on this soon. But Lyle is getting close to having AM sync working. The hope of a keyboard connection? This was supposed to be my project, but again, I've had a lot of basic firmware maintenance to keep up with. Everything is more time-consuming than you think it will be. This is especially true with the K3: it has appealed to a lot of new customers with different expectations. It isn't just QRP and full kits anymore. We've had to broaden our scope and take many new ideas into account in the design/refinement process. Or for that manner, a tightly integrated panadapter? Now you *know* I can't talk about that :) An up-to-date, complete owner's manual? I just completed a new revision last week. It's being reviewed. I'd be happy to send you a .pdf of it. In short, I believe we're keeping up with K3 user needs, while not making the rig too complex. I understand your concern, though, and I'll continue to vet new firmware ideas thoroughly before making changes. 73, Wayne N6KR --- http://www.elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Complexity
To me the K3 is pretty simple. I turn it on and use it. If I want to change things I can but I pretty much don't. I just turn it on and operate. It's like a modern HW-101 for me, just as simple as can be. Now, as to promised features vs. fixes, this is a tough call. If the features had not been promised then it would be clear to me - give me a rig with limited features that is flawless rather than a Microsoft rig (lots of features, many bugs). I too want sync AM detection but if getting it means my AGC behaves badly in a pile-up, I'll take the AGC fix and wait on sync. But, wait, it was promised that we'd have sync detection. True, but reality has become apparent and it would not be a good choice to add more features, even though they were promised, when the rig's core functionality has issues. - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of John Lyon I'd rather see Elecraft complete the original feature list. What ever happened to synchronous detection? The hope of a keyboard connection? Or for that manner, a tightly integrated panadapter? An up-to-date, complete owner's manual? In my view, we've done a year of beta testing, and it is time to move on. John W9LHG __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Complexity
Wayne, Your email response to John's honest concerns is one of the many reasons I love owning a Elecraft K3. There are multi layers of intellect within our community and you try honestly to address all of us. I personally am in the lower tier and wish I had more experience to get full benefits from this radio. But, I learn every day and my level of understanding goes up daily. In the mean time, I am happy to use the radio at my level. Being an ex Flex user of 4 years, I am especially happy for the LP-PAN, which allows me to use the K3 in the Flex mode. Smile. I've learned to appreciate SCR and it's workings. Thank you for your understanding and addressing our needs. Phil Philip LaMarche LaMarche Enterprises, Inc. www.instantgourmetspices.com www.w9dvm.com 800-395-7795 pin 02 727-944-3226 FAX 727-937-8834 NASFT 30210 K3 #1605 CCA 98 00827 W9DVM -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of wayne burdick Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 1:24 PM To: John Lyon Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Complexity Hi John, Thanks for the feedback. concerned that the K3 is becoming just another menu driven radio - with so many parameters that the result is brain paralysis. We only add new menu entries after very careful consideration. Any new entries come up at factory defaults, and most users who are not interested in that function can just leave them there. Most of them are in the advanced category are only visible in Tech Mode, reducing the chance of changing them accidentally. If you do change one, you can see what the default value is by tapping DISP while in that menu entry. (The default is the first thing shown, in parentheses.) How many AGC parameters does one person need, even with different modes and band conditions? The only AGC menu entry we've added since the pleistocene (2007) is AGC DCY, which is used to turn on an optional soft-decay characteristic. We did lots of lab tests, including building a highly stable 4-signal oscillator, before we concluded that an alternative AGC characteristic would be useful in pileup conditions. This had to be a menu entry, because we knew traditional AGC decay would still be preferred by most users. I recommend using all of the AGC defaults except in special circumstances. Others are free to pitch their favored settings. I'd rather see Elecraft complete the original feature list. What ever happened to synchronous detection? Lyle has been working on that, but basic performance issues get attention first. For example, there were claims of high-frequency AF artifacts that he had to investigate. Turns out we have a lot of customers with incredibly good hearing :) We'll have more to report on this soon. But Lyle is getting close to having AM sync working. The hope of a keyboard connection? This was supposed to be my project, but again, I've had a lot of basic firmware maintenance to keep up with. Everything is more time-consuming than you think it will be. This is especially true with the K3: it has appealed to a lot of new customers with different expectations. It isn't just QRP and full kits anymore. We've had to broaden our scope and take many new ideas into account in the design/refinement process. Or for that manner, a tightly integrated panadapter? Now you *know* I can't talk about that :) An up-to-date, complete owner's manual? I just completed a new revision last week. It's being reviewed. I'd be happy to send you a .pdf of it. In short, I believe we're keeping up with K3 user needs, while not making the rig too complex. I understand your concern, though, and I'll continue to vet new firmware ideas thoroughly before making changes. 73, Wayne N6KR --- http://www.elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 Complexity
I don't find the K3 complex. As a matter of fact, I rather enjoy playing with the new features. One doesn't have to upgrade the firmware if he is happy with the radio as is. 73, Lee (K9CM) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Complexity
Wayne and Company, Thank you so much for listening and improving the AGC Most K3 Contesters will thank their good fortune for their K3 and the amazing work you good people put into tweaking the K3 into an even better radio! It is my feeling that of late the radio of choice for use in contesting is the K3. I do not wish to take anything from any other aspect of the hobby but if a radio is going to go flat it will be happen in CQ WW. The new manual will be welcome and I admit to liking the idea of a stand alone panadaptor - wow. The keyboard would also be great. We are all peculiar but I do not want a PC permanently connected to the K3. It is my practice to disconnect the antenna and perhaps unplug the K3 supply when not using the radio. A PC connected to a hard wired LAN in our house leaves me vulnerable to thunderstorms. I don't find the K3 complex. As a matter of fact, I rather enjoy playing with the new features. One doesn't have to upgrade the firmware if he is happy with the radio as is. Well put! We are blessed and I am still very much in a learning mode. There are a couple of questions to be aired at a later date but boy the K3 works. 73 Doug EI2CN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Complexity
Ditto Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry Storm -Original Message- From: Doug Turnbull turnb...@net1.ie Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 21:42:29 To: 'Lee Trout'trou...@gmail.com; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Complexity Wayne and Company, Thank you so much for listening and improving the AGC Most K3 Contesters will thank their good fortune for their K3 and the amazing work you good people put into tweaking the K3 into an even better radio! It is my feeling that of late the radio of choice for use in contesting is the K3. I do not wish to take anything from any other aspect of the hobby but if a radio is going to go flat it will be happen in CQ WW. The new manual will be welcome and I admit to liking the idea of a stand alone panadaptor - wow. The keyboard would also be great. We are all peculiar but I do not want a PC permanently connected to the K3. It is my practice to disconnect the antenna and perhaps unplug the K3 supply when not using the radio. A PC connected to a hard wired LAN in our house leaves me vulnerable to thunderstorms. I don't find the K3 complex. As a matter of fact, I rather enjoy playing with the new features. One doesn't have to upgrade the firmware if he is happy with the radio as is. Well put! We are blessed and I am still very much in a learning mode. There are a couple of questions to be aired at a later date but boy the K3 works. 73 Doug EI2CN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Complexity
On Thu, 07 May 2009 11:50:10 -0500, John Lyon wrote: But I, too, have become concerned that the K3 is becoming just another menu driven radio - with so many parameters that the result is brain paralysis. How many AGC parameters does one person need, even with different modes and band conditions? How many angels really can dance on the head of a pin? When is enough enough? Early in its life, the K3 became a very popular competition radio, and this fact has driven its design. That is, a high percentage of K3s have been sold to contesters. The extra effort put into issues like the AGC are an attempt to optimize it in that direction. As to complexity -- K3NA told that those seasoned operators who used very early serial number versions of the K3 at VP6DX found it very easy to use, and were working at full efficiency in 5-10 minutes after first sitting down with it. My reaction as an old-timer has been the same. I find the user interface quite intuitive and fast, and the use of menus is limited to customization of the radio to suit the needs of the individual operator. In day-to-day operation, about the only time I use the menus is the tweak the settings of the Noise Blanker. The only thing I find awkward is operating control of the 2nd radio. It's been getting better, but there are still things I need to do that either aren't possible or aren't easy. I'd rather see Elecraft complete the original feature list. What ever happened to synchronous detection? The hope of a keyboard connection? Or for that manner, a tightly integrated panadapter? An up-to-date, complete owner's manual? I'd like to see these things too, but the panadapter and an up-to-date manual that better integrates new functions are the things on your list that I'd most like to see. Synchronous detection is nice, but I didn't buy my K3s to ragchew on AM or listen to shortwave. Others may have different priorities. :) 73, Jim Brown K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 complexity
Jim wrote (Snip) I'd like to see these things too, but the panadapter and an up-to-date manual that better integrates new functions are the things on your list that I'd most like to see. Asynchronous detection is nice, but I didn't buy my K3s to ragchew on AM or listen to shortwave. Others may have different priorities. :) I have to agree with the above. I do NOT find the K3 to be complex, try the FTdx-9000 and you may find as I did that this radio is quite complex and I hope the K3 will never go down that Interstate. The Hi/Lo cut granularity issue is high on my wish list but the AM issue is not on my list at all...:-) I am a newbie to the world of contesting and having tried it quite few times with other radios I decided it was not for. Since I got the K3 my mind has done a back flip (bit like our politicians?) And now get satisfaction from contesting as it pushes the boundaries of both the equipment and the mind. Gary VK4WT Sent via BlackBerry® from Telstra __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
