Re: [Elecraft] K4 YouTube Video List by Date

[K8TE]

Well-written Doug and Charlie!

I am always surprised by the lack of understanding in the broader amateur
radio community about inflation, state of the art, and the comparative value
of current radios and their predecessors.  If one takes the time to research
information on any radio, and can throw out the invalid/meaningless
anecdotes, it is relatively easy to choose a radio based on facts and
commensurate with one's "needs."  Perhaps a little brand Kool-Aid could be
an influence too.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

73, Bill, K8TE



--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] K4 YouTube Video List by Date

[Doug Turnbull]

Charles is correct.   Even the fully loaded K3 is more expensive than the
fully loaded K4.Look at all the add ons for the K3 such as high
stability oscillator and DVK then add in a full eight roofing filters when
you have a second receiver.   The P3 with external monitor card and before
long you are touching $6000 plus.  Remember the addition of the KB3 to allow
out of amateur bands reception.  Now take into consideration even the low
inflation of recent years and I am talking K3 not K3S.The K4 is not
harshly priced plus the performance is improved at least from the Graphical
User Interface point of view and probably from an RF perspective as well.
The total package is smaller than a K3 with P3 combination.Elecraft is
not gouging but presenting to us a new opportunity with what one hopes is
going to be again the top of the pile radio.   You can not expect to
purchase a K4D with superhet front ends for the price of an Icom 7300.

   The Icom is a great radio for the money but it is not in K4 territory.
You can gradually build up to the ultimate K4 if this is what you seek.
Again the modular approach taken by Elecraft is an advantage.   It also
seems that Elecraft is allowing for considerable expansion of K4
capabilities in future.

   Of course everyone is interested in seeing if Elecraft advances the
specifications as reported by Sherwood Engineering.   The user interface
will be improved now will the RF performance still be improved as well.   

   I suspect that in most cases an old Drake twins pair will work everything
the K4D will work on non WARC bands but it may not be as comfortable to do
so.   I enjoyed the Drake twins but would not go back.

   Put the fully loaded K4 up against the best of the competitors and look
at the prices.No I am not suggesting that our friends should not get
greedy but as things stand it looks like the K4 is a pretty fair deal for
one seeking the top of the line.

   May I also remind you that you are dealing in a radio made by people who
speak English.   The manuals tend to be better from our perspective.   I
have a Toyota Prius Plug In and boy does that manual have problems.
Technical writing is not a trivial matter.   This radio is going to be
complex.   We also have what from Elecraft what I believe is the best
support in the industry.   The Chief Engineers and CEOs Wayne and Eric
participate in this forum.

 73 Doug EI2CN

 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Charlie T
Sent: 24 December 2019 02:13
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K4 YouTube Video List by Date

I don't understand the paradigm that the K4 is WAY more expensive than the
K3s.
If you outfit a K3s with everything that is included for example, in a K4D,
I believe you'll find the K3s package is actually MORE expensive than the
K4D.
Don't forget to include:   The P3, + transmit monitor, +  VGA output option
(more modern HDMI on the K4 ).

73, Charlie k3ICH



 

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Re: [Elecraft] K4 YouTube Video List by Date

[Charlie T]

I don't understand the paradigm that the K4 is WAY more expensive than the K3s.
If you outfit a K3s with everything that is included for example, in a K4D, I 
believe you'll find the K3s package is actually MORE expensive than the K4D.
Don't forget to include:   The P3, + transmit monitor, +  VGA output option 
(more modern HDMI on the K4 ).

73, Charlie k3ICH



 

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Re: [Elecraft] K4 YouTube Video List by Date

[hb9cvq]

Hi All,

I use more or less happily 2 x K3S (+P3) upgraded by myself and 1x Original K3S 
(+P3). Serial No. are around 4000 , 7000 and 10400.
Recently I added YAESU FTDX101MP, impressive!
Comparing the NB and NR ( CW, SSB) in many very critical local QRM , QRN 
situations makes YAESU audio sound better and actions are often more effective 
than with K3S.
In HF mobile , low bands , have not tested the YAESU yet  .

73 Andy HB9CVQ www.qrz.com/db/hb9cvq


-Original Message
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Wes
Sent: Montag, 23. Dezember 2019 21:11
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K4 YouTube Video List by Date

I can say that I would be looking at a TS-890 on my desk if it wasn't for the 
reported abysmal NB/NR performance.  I can believe the reports because as best 
as I can determine, Kenwood used the same processing in the '890 as they did in 
the TS-870.  Before Elecraft I owned an '870 and loved everything about it 
except for the NB/NR.  I had remarked more than once that Kenwood wasted 
valuable panel space by including controls for those features.

Frankly, I'm not very satisfied with the K3/K3S NB performance either. (I 
seldom bother with NR) Twenty-one settings for hardware and 21 settings for DSP 
blanking are ridiculous. IMHO, of course.  If the K4 does significantly better 
then I'll be an optimist and buy myself one for my 79th birthday.  The bugs 
should be resolved by then.

re: Sensitivity, this is a non-issue for any decent radio built in the last 20 
years or more.

Wes  N7WS


On 12/23/2019 10:20 AM, John Stengrevics wrote:
> POTENTIALLY better NR & NB will have to wait for hard data and independent 
> reviews.
>
> And, this will absolutely determine whether or not I transition from the K3S 
> to the K4 (along with improved sensitivity).
>
> 73,
>
> John
> WA1EAZ
>
>> On Dec 23, 2019, at 9:43 AM, M. George  wrote:
>>
>> It's not surprising that there many looking for all the information 
>> they can get on the K4 etc.. Here is a YouTube link that lists K3 
>> related video 'Search for Elecraft K4 Sorted by Date for Video posted 
>> this year'
>> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=elecraft+k4=CAISBAgF
>> EAE%253D>
>> :
>> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=elecraft+k4=CAISBAgFE
>> AE%253D
>>
>> Just use the filter option in YouTube in this case to narrow down the 
>> videos to the latest postings based on the search criteria to get the 
>> latest video by date.
>>
>> The first video in this list contains a lot of detail at 38 minutes 
>> long (Eric). (ELECRAFT K4 IN DEPTH with WA6HHQ at Waters & Stanton 
>> Ltd Portsmouth UK).  Take the time and watch the whole video... there 
>> is a lot of detail in this one.
>>
>> For the questions that seem to persist about how the K4 will compare 
>> to the K3... you quickly begin to understand that the receiver specs 
>> will be similar to the K3S, especially once you understand the K4 
>> design approach with the hyrbird direct sampling approach and 
>> superhet addition in the K4HD.  At the same time, I'm not going to 
>> underestimate the potential for some eye popping numbers when the 
>> K4HD module is introduced. (think Third-Order Dynamic Range Narrow 
>> Spaced rankings).  However if the specs are similar to the K3S or 
>> even a little better, it's becoming more clear to me that the K4 
>> platform and it's future potential with advances and refinements in 
>> the software are where the real advantages are.  Big leaps here over 
>> the K3S.  Leaps that the K3S can simply never take do to the limited 
>> processing power.  The K3 and K4 are not even in the same league in this 
>> area.
>>
>> You also begin to see the much higher potential the K4 has as far as 
>> noise reduction / noise blanking capability due to algorithms having 
>> access to a much wider bandpass with the SDR direct sampling 
>> approach.  Just my opinion, but I suspect there will be some big 
>> improvements in these areas as compared to the K3/S line.  The speed 
>> of the processing power and access to bandwidth will allow for better 
>> noise reduction etc... plus the software improvements over time and 
>> head room for processing power sets up the K4 for some big performance leaps 
>> improvements are made in software (IMHO).
>> You can glean all of this from the videos (reading between the lines) 
>> in my opinion. i.e. Elecraft potentially adding the capability with 
>> diversity receive to do phase shifting to null out noise, similar to 
>> the capability you get with a NCC-2 box for example.  And consider 
>> the design approach to upgrade the ADC proc

Re: [Elecraft] K4 YouTube Video List by Date

[Wes]

I can say that I would be looking at a TS-890 on my desk if it wasn't for the 
reported abysmal NB/NR performance.  I can believe the reports because as best 
as I can determine, Kenwood used the same processing in the '890 as they did in 
the TS-870.  Before Elecraft I owned an '870 and loved everything about it 
except for the NB/NR.  I had remarked more than once that Kenwood wasted 
valuable panel space by including controls for those features.


Frankly, I'm not very satisfied with the K3/K3S NB performance either. (I seldom 
bother with NR) Twenty-one settings for hardware and 21 settings for DSP 
blanking are ridiculous. IMHO, of course.  If the K4 does significantly better 
then I'll be an optimist and buy myself one for my 79th birthday.  The bugs 
should be resolved by then.


re: Sensitivity, this is a non-issue for any decent radio built in the last 20 
years or more.


Wes  N7WS


On 12/23/2019 10:20 AM, John Stengrevics wrote:

POTENTIALLY better NR & NB will have to wait for hard data and independent 
reviews.

And, this will absolutely determine whether or not I transition from the K3S to 
the K4 (along with improved sensitivity).

73,

John
WA1EAZ


On Dec 23, 2019, at 9:43 AM, M. George  wrote:

It's not surprising that there many looking for all the information they
can get on the K4 etc.. Here is a YouTube link that lists K3 related
video 'Search
for Elecraft K4 Sorted by Date for Video posted this year'

:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=elecraft+k4=CAISBAgFEAE%253D

Just use the filter option in YouTube in this case to narrow down the
videos to the latest postings based on the search criteria to get the
latest video by date.

The first video in this list contains a lot of detail at 38 minutes long
(Eric). (ELECRAFT K4 IN DEPTH with WA6HHQ at Waters & Stanton Ltd
Portsmouth UK).  Take the time and watch the whole video... there is a lot
of detail in this one.

For the questions that seem to persist about how the K4 will compare to the
K3... you quickly begin to understand that the receiver specs will be
similar to the K3S, especially once you understand the K4 design approach
with the hyrbird direct sampling approach and superhet addition in the
K4HD.  At the same time, I'm not going to underestimate the potential for
some eye popping numbers when the K4HD module is introduced. (think
Third-Order Dynamic Range Narrow Spaced rankings).  However if the specs
are similar to the K3S or even a little better, it's becoming more clear to
me that the K4 platform and it's future potential with advances and
refinements in the software are where the real advantages are.  Big leaps
here over the K3S.  Leaps that the K3S can simply never take do to the
limited processing power.  The K3 and K4 are not even in the same league in
this area.

You also begin to see the much higher potential the K4 has as far as noise
reduction / noise blanking capability due to algorithms having access to a
much wider bandpass with the SDR direct sampling approach.  Just my
opinion, but I suspect there will be some big improvements in these areas
as compared to the K3/S line.  The speed of the processing power and access
to bandwidth will allow for better noise reduction etc... plus the software
improvements over time and head room for processing power sets up the K4
for some big performance leaps improvements are made in software (IMHO).
You can glean all of this from the videos (reading between the lines) in my
opinion. i.e. Elecraft potentially adding the capability with diversity
receive to do phase shifting to null out noise, similar to the capability
you get with a NCC-2 box for example.  And consider the design approach to
upgrade the ADC processing... the K4 seems to be setup for a long life with
some interesting improvements down the road, not only with the software,
but think hardware processing upgrades too.

I can't speak for anyone else, but since the K4 has been announced I have
gone through a phase of trying to convince myself that the K4 isn't any
better than my K3S, so why would I consider a K4?  ($4K to $6K for a new
rig sure isn't chump change and could be spent on other station
improvements right?) As far as some of the tell-tell specs like dynamic
range blocking with strong signals near your band-pass etc... I think with
the K4HD, the specs will be similar, but overall, what is beginning to
interest me is the amazing potential the K4 design has.  We are talking
about two very different animals here. (with the same linage)

I have also spent a considerable amount of time looking at the direct
sampling competitors and as I start to dig in, I'm really seeing some
lacking features as they relate to a CW operator's rig.  I guess I'm biased
as a current Elecraft Fan-Boy / CW operator (I'll admit it), but when I
look at what I would be giving up in regard to CW operating features that
have become second nature to me, I 

Re: [Elecraft] K4 YouTube Video List by Date

[Gary Smith]

Ever since the 8086 XT processor where I 
could work 2 more MHz out of it, I have 
loved upgrading processors to get faster 
speeds. This being within the same family 
of processor, ones that simply drop into 
the existing socket & motherboard, some 
are much faster than others and have a 
more expansive architecture than their 
younger brother.

Perhaps that will be an option for the K4 
if the processor is socketed, say in 3-4 
years a replacement with ever greater 
speed and capabilities will come out. 
Maybe in the case of the K4 such a 
processor change would be inconsequential? 
Time will tell. 

One thing for sure, I really like the 
options for future expansion the K4 
modular system allows for.

Cheers to us all.

73,

Gary
KA1J


> John, that's the beauty of it all... you can play now (or rather in
> the near future) or you can wait and decide for yourself after all the
> 'glorious independent reviews come in' (grump around like the Grumpy
> Old K3 Grinch who stole Christmas). "When I was a young man we used a
> K3 or a K3S and by golly we loved it" You young whipper snappers
> with your new fangled K4 gizzo radios! :)  Is someone making you
> upgrade to a K4? Twisting your arm? You totally missed the point.
> 
> The K4 isn't ONLY about the receiver specs... maybe for you so you
> have no choice but to wait...  I get it...  However if that was the
> case, then you would have bought some other transceiver that has
> already exceeded some of the K3S's specs. No? The point here is that
> there is far more to the new platform than receiver specs alone and
> the potential truly leaves the exhausted K3's processing and now
> static capabilities in the dust (Elecraft is moving on whether you
> like it or not... that ship has already sailed!). Plus sensitivity is
> only as good as the noise floor your antenna system provides... I'm
> not aware of an HF antenna system that provides a ~-133dBm to -145dBm
> MDS noise floor.  So sensitivity is all relative to your antenna
> system.  Blocking dynamic range is far more important to me.  It's
> time for Elecraft to move on to a platform they can build on.  I'm
> sure many will shake their fist in the air, weep and wail and gnash
> their teeth, holding on to the K3s for years and years to come (a
> testament to K3 success), but many will be excited for what the K4
> will bring and are willing to go along for the ride right from the
> start.
> 
> You can stomp your feet and do what you like...bark at the moon and
> pound sand and continue to stick with the K3 until the end of times,
> nothing wrong with that... try to convince yourself that the creators
> of the K3 can't do any better.  I'm in the camp that they have already
> done better and I want to go along for that ride.  Doing better
> includes far more capabilities than dropping the MDS by a few dBm what
> will net nothing. Onward and upward I say... it's exciting to see that
> there is and continues to be a market to keep pushing the envelope in
> the HF transceiver market.
> 
> Max NG7M
> 
> On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 10:20 AM John Stengrevics
>  wrote:
> 
> > POTENTIALLY better NR & NB will have to wait for hard data and
> > independent reviews.
> >
> > And, this will absolutely determine whether or not I transition from
> > the K3S to the K4 (along with improved sensitivity).
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > John
> > WA1EAZ
> >
> > > On Dec 23, 2019, at 9:43 AM, M. George
> > > 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > It's not surprising that there many looking for all the
> > > information they can get on the K4 etc.. Here is a YouTube link
> > > that lists K3 related video 'Search for Elecraft K4 Sorted by Date
> > > for Video posted this year' <
> > https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=elecraft+k4=CAISBAgF
> > EAE%253D
> > >
> > > :
> > >
> > https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=elecraft+k4=CAISBAgF
> > EAE%253D
> > >
> > > Just use the filter option in YouTube in this case to narrow down
> > > the videos to the latest postings based on the search criteria to
> > > get the latest video by date.
> > >
> > > The first video in this list contains a lot of detail at 38
> > > minutes long (Eric). (ELECRAFT K4 IN DEPTH with WA6HHQ at Waters &
> > > Stanton Ltd Portsmouth UK).  Take the time and watch the whole
> > > video... there is a
> > lot
> > > of detail in this one.
> > >
> > > For the questions that seem to persist about how the K4 will
> > > compare to
> > the
> > > K3... you quickly begin to understand that the receiver specs will
> > > be similar to the K3S, especially once you understand the K4
> > > design approach with the hyrbird direct sampling approach and
> > > superhet addition in the K4HD.  At the same time, I'm not going to
> > > underestimate the potential for some eye popping numbers when the
> > > K4HD module is introduced. (think Third-Order Dynamic Range Narrow
> > > Spaced rankings).  However if the specs are similar to the K3S or
> > > even a little better, it's becoming more clear
> > to
> 

Re: [Elecraft] K4 YouTube Video List by Date

[John Stengrevics]

Max,

Perhaps my fault for being less clear than I should have been.  

As I said to another person who replied to me, my interest is almost 
exclusively in 6 meter DX.  So, what is important to me (and perhaps not to 
that many others) is better NB particularly on EME where I am currently limited 
in the size of array I can put up (currently 9 element LFA with no elevation).  
And, more sensitivity can only help.

I am not debating at all that the new platform will have many capabilities 
beyond those of the K3S.  But, they may be less of interest to me for my 
specific needs and interests.  And, I applaud the Elecraft team for advancing 
the state of the art.  

73,

John
WA1EAZ

On Dec 23, 2019, at 1:36 PM, M. George  wrote:
> 
> John, that's the beauty of it all... you can play now (or rather in the near 
> future) or you can wait and decide for yourself after all the ‘glorious 
> independent reviews come in' (grump around like the Grumpy Old K3 Grinch who 
> stole Christmas). "When I was a young man we used a K3 or a K3S and by golly 
> we loved it" You young whipper snappers with your new fangled K4 gizzo 
> radios! :)  Is someone making you upgrade to a K4?  Twisting your arm? You 
> totally missed the point.
> 
> The K4 isn't ONLY about the receiver specs... maybe for you so you have no 
> choice but to wait...  I get it...  However if that was the case, then you 
> would have bought some other transceiver that has already exceeded some of 
> the K3S's specs. No? The point here is that there is far more to the new 
> platform than receiver specs alone and the potential truly leaves the 
> exhausted K3's processing and now static capabilities in the dust (Elecraft 
> is moving on whether you like it or not... that ship has already sailed!). 
> Plus sensitivity is only as good as the noise floor your antenna system 
> provides... I'm not aware of an HF antenna system that provides a ~-133dBm to 
> -145dBm MDS noise floor.  So sensitivity is all relative to your antenna 
> system.  Blocking dynamic range is far more important to me.  It's time for 
> Elecraft to move on to a platform they can build on.  I'm sure many will 
> shake their fist in the air, weep and wail and gnash their teeth, holding on 
> to the K3s for years and years to come (a testament to K3 success), but many 
> will be excited for what the K4 will bring and are willing to go along for 
> the ride right from the start.
> 
> You can stomp your feet and do what you like...bark at the moon and pound 
> sand and continue to stick with the K3 until the end of times, nothing wrong 
> with that... try to convince yourself that the creators of the K3 can't do 
> any better.  I'm in the camp that they have already done better and I want to 
> go along for that ride.  Doing better includes far more capabilities than 
> dropping the MDS by a few dBm what will net nothing. Onward and upward I 
> say... it's exciting to see that there is and continues to be a market to 
> keep pushing the envelope in the HF transceiver market.
> 
> Max NG7M
> 
> On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 10:20 AM John Stengrevics  > wrote:
> POTENTIALLY better NR & NB will have to wait for hard data and independent 
> reviews.
> 
> And, this will absolutely determine whether or not I transition from the K3S 
> to the K4 (along with improved sensitivity).
> 
> 73,
> 
> John
> WA1EAZ
> 
> > On Dec 23, 2019, at 9:43 AM, M. George  > > wrote:
> > 
> > It's not surprising that there many looking for all the information they
> > can get on the K4 etc.. Here is a YouTube link that lists K3 related
> > video 'Search
> > for Elecraft K4 Sorted by Date for Video posted this year'
> >  >  
> > >
> > :
> > https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=elecraft+k4=CAISBAgFEAE%253D
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > Just use the filter option in YouTube in this case to narrow down the
> > videos to the latest postings based on the search criteria to get the
> > latest video by date.
> > 
> > The first video in this list contains a lot of detail at 38 minutes long
> > (Eric). (ELECRAFT K4 IN DEPTH with WA6HHQ at Waters & Stanton Ltd
> > Portsmouth UK).  Take the time and watch the whole video... there is a lot
> > of detail in this one.
> > 
> > For the questions that seem to persist about how the K4 will compare to the
> > K3... you quickly begin to understand that the receiver specs will be
> > similar to the K3S, especially once you understand the K4 design approach
> > with the hyrbird direct sampling approach and superhet addition in the
> > K4HD.  At the same time, I'm not going to underestimate the potential for
> > some eye popping numbers when the K4HD module is introduced. (think
> > Third-Order Dynamic 

Re: [Elecraft] K4 YouTube Video List by Date

[George Thornton]

I am a happy owner of a K3 that has been partially updated to K3s standards.

I am not a contester (other than at Field Day) and it is a big financial jump 
to go to the K4.

Since my existing equipment is working so well for me, I am not likely to move 
to the K4 unless there is some degree of enhanced performance.


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of M. George
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 10:36 AM
To: John Stengrevics 
Cc: Elecraft Mailer 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K4 YouTube Video List by Date

John, that's the beauty of it all... you can play now (or rather in the near 
future) or you can wait and decide for yourself after all the 'glorious 
independent reviews come in' (grump around like the Grumpy Old K3 Grinch who 
stole Christmas). "When I was a young man we used a K3 or a K3S and by golly we 
loved it" You young whipper snappers with your new fangled K4 gizzo radios! 
:)  Is someone making you upgrade to a K4?
Twisting your arm? You totally missed the point.

The K4 isn't ONLY about the receiver specs... maybe for you so you have no 
choice but to wait...  I get it...  However if that was the case, then you 
would have bought some other transceiver that has already exceeded some of the 
K3S's specs. No? The point here is that there is far more to the new platform 
than receiver specs alone and the potential truly leaves the exhausted K3's 
processing and now static capabilities in the dust (Elecraft is moving on 
whether you like it or not... that ship has already sailed!).
Plus sensitivity is only as good as the noise floor your antenna system 
provides... I'm not aware of an HF antenna system that provides a ~-133dBm to 
-145dBm MDS noise floor.  So sensitivity is all relative to your antenna 
system.  Blocking dynamic range is far more important to me.  It's time for 
Elecraft to move on to a platform they can build on.  I'm sure many will shake 
their fist in the air, weep and wail and gnash their teeth, holding on to the 
K3s for years and years to come (a testament to K3 success), but many will be 
excited for what the K4 will bring and are willing to go along for the ride 
right from the start.

You can stomp your feet and do what you like...bark at the moon and pound sand 
and continue to stick with the K3 until the end of times, nothing wrong with 
that... try to convince yourself that the creators of the K3 can't do any 
better.  I'm in the camp that they have already done better and I want to go 
along for that ride.  Doing better includes far more capabilities than dropping 
the MDS by a few dBm what will net nothing.
Onward and upward I say... it's exciting to see that there is and continues to 
be a market to keep pushing the envelope in the HF transceiver market.

Max NG7M

On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 10:20 AM John Stengrevics 
wrote:

> POTENTIALLY better NR & NB will have to wait for hard data and 
> independent reviews.
>
> And, this will absolutely determine whether or not I transition from 
> the K3S to the K4 (along with improved sensitivity).
>
> 73,
>
> John
> WA1EAZ
>
> > On Dec 23, 2019, at 9:43 AM, M. George 
> wrote:
> >
> > It's not surprising that there many looking for all the information 
> > they can get on the K4 etc.. Here is a YouTube link that lists K3 
> > related video 'Search for Elecraft K4 Sorted by Date for Video 
> > posted this year'
> > <
> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=elecraft+k4=CAISBAgFEA
> E%253D
> >
> > :
> >
> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=elecraft+k4=CAISBAgFEA
> E%253D
> >
> > Just use the filter option in YouTube in this case to narrow down 
> > the videos to the latest postings based on the search criteria to 
> > get the latest video by date.
> >
> > The first video in this list contains a lot of detail at 38 minutes 
> > long (Eric). (ELECRAFT K4 IN DEPTH with WA6HHQ at Waters & Stanton 
> > Ltd Portsmouth UK).  Take the time and watch the whole video... 
> > there is a
> lot
> > of detail in this one.
> >
> > For the questions that seem to persist about how the K4 will compare 
> > to
> the
> > K3... you quickly begin to understand that the receiver specs will 
> > be similar to the K3S, especially once you understand the K4 design 
> > approach with the hyrbird direct sampling approach and superhet 
> > addition in the K4HD.  At the same time, I'm not going to 
> > underestimate the potential for some eye popping numbers when the 
> > K4HD module is introduced. (think Third-Order Dynamic Range Narrow 
> > Spaced rankings).  However if the specs are similar to the K3S or 
> > even a little better, it's becoming more clear
> to
> > me that the K4 platform and it's future potential with advances and

Re: [Elecraft] K4 YouTube Video List by Date

[M. George]

John, that's the beauty of it all... you can play now (or rather in the
near future) or you can wait and decide for yourself after all the
'glorious independent reviews come in' (grump around like the Grumpy Old K3
Grinch who stole Christmas). "When I was a young man we used a K3 or a K3S
and by golly we loved it" You young whipper snappers with your new
fangled K4 gizzo radios! :)  Is someone making you upgrade to a K4?
Twisting your arm? You totally missed the point.

The K4 isn't ONLY about the receiver specs... maybe for you so you have no
choice but to wait...  I get it...  However if that was the case, then you
would have bought some other transceiver that has already exceeded some of
the K3S's specs. No? The point here is that there is far more to the new
platform than receiver specs alone and the potential truly leaves the
exhausted K3's processing and now static capabilities in the dust (Elecraft
is moving on whether you like it or not... that ship has already sailed!).
Plus sensitivity is only as good as the noise floor your antenna system
provides... I'm not aware of an HF antenna system that provides a ~-133dBm
to -145dBm MDS noise floor.  So sensitivity is all relative to your antenna
system.  Blocking dynamic range is far more important to me.  It's time for
Elecraft to move on to a platform they can build on.  I'm sure many will
shake their fist in the air, weep and wail and gnash their teeth, holding
on to the K3s for years and years to come (a testament to K3 success), but
many will be excited for what the K4 will bring and are willing to go along
for the ride right from the start.

You can stomp your feet and do what you like...bark at the moon and pound
sand and continue to stick with the K3 until the end of times, nothing
wrong with that... try to convince yourself that the creators of the K3
can't do any better.  I'm in the camp that they have already done better
and I want to go along for that ride.  Doing better includes far more
capabilities than dropping the MDS by a few dBm what will net nothing.
Onward and upward I say... it's exciting to see that there is and continues
to be a market to keep pushing the envelope in the HF transceiver market.

Max NG7M

On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 10:20 AM John Stengrevics 
wrote:

> POTENTIALLY better NR & NB will have to wait for hard data and independent
> reviews.
>
> And, this will absolutely determine whether or not I transition from the
> K3S to the K4 (along with improved sensitivity).
>
> 73,
>
> John
> WA1EAZ
>
> > On Dec 23, 2019, at 9:43 AM, M. George 
> wrote:
> >
> > It's not surprising that there many looking for all the information they
> > can get on the K4 etc.. Here is a YouTube link that lists K3 related
> > video 'Search
> > for Elecraft K4 Sorted by Date for Video posted this year'
> > <
> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=elecraft+k4=CAISBAgFEAE%253D
> >
> > :
> >
> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=elecraft+k4=CAISBAgFEAE%253D
> >
> > Just use the filter option in YouTube in this case to narrow down the
> > videos to the latest postings based on the search criteria to get the
> > latest video by date.
> >
> > The first video in this list contains a lot of detail at 38 minutes long
> > (Eric). (ELECRAFT K4 IN DEPTH with WA6HHQ at Waters & Stanton Ltd
> > Portsmouth UK).  Take the time and watch the whole video... there is a
> lot
> > of detail in this one.
> >
> > For the questions that seem to persist about how the K4 will compare to
> the
> > K3... you quickly begin to understand that the receiver specs will be
> > similar to the K3S, especially once you understand the K4 design approach
> > with the hyrbird direct sampling approach and superhet addition in the
> > K4HD.  At the same time, I'm not going to underestimate the potential for
> > some eye popping numbers when the K4HD module is introduced. (think
> > Third-Order Dynamic Range Narrow Spaced rankings).  However if the specs
> > are similar to the K3S or even a little better, it's becoming more clear
> to
> > me that the K4 platform and it's future potential with advances and
> > refinements in the software are where the real advantages are.  Big leaps
> > here over the K3S.  Leaps that the K3S can simply never take do to the
> > limited processing power.  The K3 and K4 are not even in the same league
> in
> > this area.
> >
> > You also begin to see the much higher potential the K4 has as far as
> noise
> > reduction / noise blanking capability due to algorithms having access to
> a
> > much wider bandpass with the SDR direct sampling approach.  Just my
> > opinion, but I suspect there will be some big improvements in these areas
> > as compared to the K3/S line.  The speed of the processing power and
> access
> > to bandwidth will allow for better noise reduction etc... plus the
> software
> > improvements over time and head room for processing power sets up the K4
> > for some big performance leaps improvements are made in software 

Re: [Elecraft] K4 YouTube Video List by Date

[John Stengrevics]

POTENTIALLY better NR & NB will have to wait for hard data and independent 
reviews.

And, this will absolutely determine whether or not I transition from the K3S to 
the K4 (along with improved sensitivity).

73,

John
WA1EAZ

> On Dec 23, 2019, at 9:43 AM, M. George  wrote:
> 
> It's not surprising that there many looking for all the information they
> can get on the K4 etc.. Here is a YouTube link that lists K3 related
> video 'Search
> for Elecraft K4 Sorted by Date for Video posted this year'
> 
> :
> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=elecraft+k4=CAISBAgFEAE%253D
> 
> Just use the filter option in YouTube in this case to narrow down the
> videos to the latest postings based on the search criteria to get the
> latest video by date.
> 
> The first video in this list contains a lot of detail at 38 minutes long
> (Eric). (ELECRAFT K4 IN DEPTH with WA6HHQ at Waters & Stanton Ltd
> Portsmouth UK).  Take the time and watch the whole video... there is a lot
> of detail in this one.
> 
> For the questions that seem to persist about how the K4 will compare to the
> K3... you quickly begin to understand that the receiver specs will be
> similar to the K3S, especially once you understand the K4 design approach
> with the hyrbird direct sampling approach and superhet addition in the
> K4HD.  At the same time, I'm not going to underestimate the potential for
> some eye popping numbers when the K4HD module is introduced. (think
> Third-Order Dynamic Range Narrow Spaced rankings).  However if the specs
> are similar to the K3S or even a little better, it's becoming more clear to
> me that the K4 platform and it's future potential with advances and
> refinements in the software are where the real advantages are.  Big leaps
> here over the K3S.  Leaps that the K3S can simply never take do to the
> limited processing power.  The K3 and K4 are not even in the same league in
> this area.
> 
> You also begin to see the much higher potential the K4 has as far as noise
> reduction / noise blanking capability due to algorithms having access to a
> much wider bandpass with the SDR direct sampling approach.  Just my
> opinion, but I suspect there will be some big improvements in these areas
> as compared to the K3/S line.  The speed of the processing power and access
> to bandwidth will allow for better noise reduction etc... plus the software
> improvements over time and head room for processing power sets up the K4
> for some big performance leaps improvements are made in software (IMHO).
> You can glean all of this from the videos (reading between the lines) in my
> opinion. i.e. Elecraft potentially adding the capability with diversity
> receive to do phase shifting to null out noise, similar to the capability
> you get with a NCC-2 box for example.  And consider the design approach to
> upgrade the ADC processing... the K4 seems to be setup for a long life with
> some interesting improvements down the road, not only with the software,
> but think hardware processing upgrades too.
> 
> I can't speak for anyone else, but since the K4 has been announced I have
> gone through a phase of trying to convince myself that the K4 isn't any
> better than my K3S, so why would I consider a K4?  ($4K to $6K for a new
> rig sure isn't chump change and could be spent on other station
> improvements right?) As far as some of the tell-tell specs like dynamic
> range blocking with strong signals near your band-pass etc... I think with
> the K4HD, the specs will be similar, but overall, what is beginning to
> interest me is the amazing potential the K4 design has.  We are talking
> about two very different animals here. (with the same linage)
> 
> I have also spent a considerable amount of time looking at the direct
> sampling competitors and as I start to dig in, I'm really seeing some
> lacking features as they relate to a CW operator's rig.  I guess I'm biased
> as a current Elecraft Fan-Boy / CW operator (I'll admit it), but when I
> look at what I would be giving up in regard to CW operating features that
> have become second nature to me, I think I would be very disappointed. If
> you spend some time in the competitors user groups you will understand what
> I'm talking about, but that's just me.  Owners in these other groups have
> been begging for some common CW features that never seem to materialize.
> However competition is good and it's great to have options.  You can't go
> too wrong with any of the high end rigs these days, including any of the
> direct sampling designs that are shipping now.
> 
> So to end this tome of a post... if I had to place an order today for a new
> rig, it would be a an order for a K4.  Wink / wink, maybe I already did.
> ;)  And if I did, I'm happy to wait X number of months for the K4 to emerge
> only when it is ready for prime time.  My trusty K3S at my side as I type
> away at the keyboard here will make the wait 

[Elecraft] K4 YouTube Video List by Date

[M. George]

It's not surprising that there many looking for all the information they
can get on the K4 etc.. Here is a YouTube link that lists K3 related
video 'Search
for Elecraft K4 Sorted by Date for Video posted this year'

:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=elecraft+k4=CAISBAgFEAE%253D

Just use the filter option in YouTube in this case to narrow down the
videos to the latest postings based on the search criteria to get the
latest video by date.

The first video in this list contains a lot of detail at 38 minutes long
(Eric). (ELECRAFT K4 IN DEPTH with WA6HHQ at Waters & Stanton Ltd
Portsmouth UK).  Take the time and watch the whole video... there is a lot
of detail in this one.

For the questions that seem to persist about how the K4 will compare to the
K3... you quickly begin to understand that the receiver specs will be
similar to the K3S, especially once you understand the K4 design approach
with the hyrbird direct sampling approach and superhet addition in the
K4HD.  At the same time, I'm not going to underestimate the potential for
some eye popping numbers when the K4HD module is introduced. (think
Third-Order Dynamic Range Narrow Spaced rankings).  However if the specs
are similar to the K3S or even a little better, it's becoming more clear to
me that the K4 platform and it's future potential with advances and
refinements in the software are where the real advantages are.  Big leaps
here over the K3S.  Leaps that the K3S can simply never take do to the
limited processing power.  The K3 and K4 are not even in the same league in
this area.

You also begin to see the much higher potential the K4 has as far as noise
reduction / noise blanking capability due to algorithms having access to a
much wider bandpass with the SDR direct sampling approach.  Just my
opinion, but I suspect there will be some big improvements in these areas
as compared to the K3/S line.  The speed of the processing power and access
to bandwidth will allow for better noise reduction etc... plus the software
improvements over time and head room for processing power sets up the K4
for some big performance leaps improvements are made in software (IMHO).
You can glean all of this from the videos (reading between the lines) in my
opinion. i.e. Elecraft potentially adding the capability with diversity
receive to do phase shifting to null out noise, similar to the capability
you get with a NCC-2 box for example.  And consider the design approach to
upgrade the ADC processing... the K4 seems to be setup for a long life with
some interesting improvements down the road, not only with the software,
but think hardware processing upgrades too.

I can't speak for anyone else, but since the K4 has been announced I have
gone through a phase of trying to convince myself that the K4 isn't any
better than my K3S, so why would I consider a K4?  ($4K to $6K for a new
rig sure isn't chump change and could be spent on other station
improvements right?) As far as some of the tell-tell specs like dynamic
range blocking with strong signals near your band-pass etc... I think with
the K4HD, the specs will be similar, but overall, what is beginning to
interest me is the amazing potential the K4 design has.  We are talking
about two very different animals here. (with the same linage)

I have also spent a considerable amount of time looking at the direct
sampling competitors and as I start to dig in, I'm really seeing some
lacking features as they relate to a CW operator's rig.  I guess I'm biased
as a current Elecraft Fan-Boy / CW operator (I'll admit it), but when I
look at what I would be giving up in regard to CW operating features that
have become second nature to me, I think I would be very disappointed. If
you spend some time in the competitors user groups you will understand what
I'm talking about, but that's just me.  Owners in these other groups have
been begging for some common CW features that never seem to materialize.
However competition is good and it's great to have options.  You can't go
too wrong with any of the high end rigs these days, including any of the
direct sampling designs that are shipping now.

So to end this tome of a post... if I had to place an order today for a new
rig, it would be a an order for a K4.  Wink / wink, maybe I already did.
;)  And if I did, I'm happy to wait X number of months for the K4 to emerge
only when it is ready for prime time.  My trusty K3S at my side as I type
away at the keyboard here will make the wait easy.  Take your time Elecraft.

Max NG7M



-- 
M. George
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