Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling

2020-07-25 Thread Mike Short
We used helium to cool IR detectors on the RF-4C. It is also fun later. The
last IR system used nitrogen to cool the detectors. Not as much fun.

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 11:35 RICHARD Martin  wrote:

> If you have to use gas, use Helium.  It is very good especially at reduced
> pressures where the mean free path  approaches the dimension  of the
> container.
>
> Dick Martin KN6AA
>
> On Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 07:37 W2xj  wrote:
>
> > I would avoid that in ham or broadcast transmitters due to the potential
> > skill sets (or lack thereof)of end users. Hydrogen is too explosive in
> the
> > wrong hands.
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > > On Jul 25, 2020, at 6:41 AM, Rich NE1EE <73.de.ne...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > If you're up to the challenge, hydrogen is a great for cooling. Very
> > nice thermal conductivity and thermal capacity. I've worked on systems
> that
> > used it for cooling.
> > >
> > > ~R~
> > > 72/73 de Rich NE1EE
> > > On the banks of the Piscataqua
> > >
> > > __
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling

2020-07-25 Thread RICHARD Martin
If you have to use gas, use Helium.  It is very good especially at reduced
pressures where the mean free path  approaches the dimension  of the
container.

Dick Martin KN6AA

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 07:37 W2xj  wrote:

> I would avoid that in ham or broadcast transmitters due to the potential
> skill sets (or lack thereof)of end users. Hydrogen is too explosive in the
> wrong hands.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Jul 25, 2020, at 6:41 AM, Rich NE1EE <73.de.ne...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > If you're up to the challenge, hydrogen is a great for cooling. Very
> nice thermal conductivity and thermal capacity. I've worked on systems that
> used it for cooling.
> >
> > ~R~
> > 72/73 de Rich NE1EE
> > On the banks of the Piscataqua
> >
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to w...@w2xj.net
> >
>
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling

2020-07-25 Thread W2xj
I would avoid that in ham or broadcast transmitters due to the potential skill 
sets (or lack thereof)of end users. Hydrogen is too explosive in the wrong 
hands. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 25, 2020, at 6:41 AM, Rich NE1EE <73.de.ne...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> If you're up to the challenge, hydrogen is a great for cooling. Very nice 
> thermal conductivity and thermal capacity. I've worked on systems that used 
> it for cooling.
> 
> ~R~
> 72/73 de Rich NE1EE
> On the banks of the Piscataqua
> 
> __
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to w...@w2xj.net 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling

2020-07-25 Thread N2TK via Elecraft
Bill,
That is what I was trying to remember what we used for cooling for the
electrodes in RF plasma tools.
Thanks
N2TK, Tony

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On
Behalf Of Bill Frantz
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2020 9:56 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling

The Cray-2 computer was cooled with "Fluorinert", a 3M product which is an
electrically insulating, stable fluorocarbon-based fluid.

73 Bill AE6JV

---
Bill Frantz| gets() remains as a monument | Periwinkle
(408)348-7900  | to C's continuing support of | 150 
Rivermead Rd #235
www.pwpconsult.com | buffer overruns. | 
Peterborough, NH 03458

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling

2020-07-25 Thread Rich NE1EE
If you're up to the challenge, hydrogen is a great for cooling. Very nice 
thermal conductivity and thermal capacity. I've worked on systems that used it 
for cooling.

~R~
72/73 de Rich NE1EE
On the banks of the Piscataqua

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling

2020-07-24 Thread Wes
The Phoenix Missile was cooled using Coolanol.  Insidious stuff.  Never wear a 
new pair of slacks when you might get near a Phoenix Receiver/Transmitter Unit.  
Don't ask me how I know this.


Aircraft carrier Captains hated it leaking all over their carrier decks about as 
much as AFB Generals hated SR71s leaking fuel all over their runways.  We "dried 
up" Phoenix after the Shah was overthrown and the Russians got Phoenix and we 
redesigned it to replace klystrons with IMPATTs.


And they paid us to have all this fun.

Wes  N7WS

On 7/24/2020 6:56 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
The Cray-2 computer was cooled with "Fluorinert", a 3M product which is an 
electrically insulating, stable fluorocarbon-based fluid.


73 Bill AE6JV

---
Bill Frantz    | gets() remains as a monument | Periwinkle
(408)348-7900  | to C's continuing support of | 150 Rivermead Rd #235
www.pwpconsult.com | buffer overruns. | Peterborough, NH 03458


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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling

2020-07-24 Thread Bill Frantz
The Cray-2 computer was cooled with "Fluorinert", a 3M product 
which is an electrically insulating, stable fluorocarbon-based fluid.


73 Bill AE6JV

---
Bill Frantz| gets() remains as a monument | Periwinkle
(408)348-7900  | to C's continuing support of | 150 
Rivermead Rd #235
www.pwpconsult.com | buffer overruns. | 
Peterborough, NH 03458


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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling

2020-07-24 Thread Luis V. Romero
In the analog NTSC days, Harris UHF broadcast transmitters were liquid
cooled by stuff called UCARTHERM-HTF 6141 (If memory serves me). 

We called it "Vulcan Blood".  It was a special Ethylene Glycol much like
automotive anti-freeze but thicker and with lots of other goodies inside.
It was an interesting MSDS sheet.

An older RCA UHF TV Transmitter I remember "fondly" used distilled water.
There was a resistance sensor on the circulation system that measured the
resistance of the water.  The meter pointer on the yellow part of the meter
meant a long Friday overnight to Saturday morning session that week.
Usually quarterly. 

And, don't even think of turning the rig off during cold winter nights! The
heat exchanger had no heating element, and if you left the rig off for more
than a couple of hours, the water would freeze and crack it open, which was
a really bad thing to happen. 

No snow ever gathered in the vicinity of the heat exchanger exhaust duct.
There could be two feet of snow on the driveway, but there was always a spot
on the side of the building that was not only snow free, but often dry.
Often, the icicles on the adjacent windows were legendary!

Nobody ever thought of bypassing some of that heat into the building...
Those were the days of cheap energy.

Lu - W4LT 

---=---==---
-

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 16:46:00 -0400
From: 
To: "'Paul Christensen'" ,   
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling
Message-ID: <02b001d66132$4664f990$d32eecb0$@verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="utf-8"

Hi Paul,
I can't remember what we used to use for closed loop cooling. I don't think
we used distilled water because it's resistance would increase over time
from picking up ions from the metal. In our case it was cooling loops in a
copper 37" electrode. I thought it was some kind of antifreeze or maybe an
oil? And also isn't distilled water quite reactive?
To many bourbons ago ?
N2TK, Tony



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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling

2020-07-23 Thread N2TK via Elecraft
Tnx Paul

-Original Message-
From: W2xj  
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2020 5:08 PM
To: tony@verizon.net
Cc: Paul Christensen ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling

glycol and anti freeze. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 23, 2020, at 4:49 PM, N2TK via Elecraft  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Paul,
> I can't remember what we used to use for closed loop cooling. I don't think 
> we used distilled water because it's resistance would increase over time from 
> picking up ions from the metal. In our case it was cooling loops in a copper 
> 37" electrode. I thought it was some kind of antifreeze or maybe an oil? And 
> also isn't distilled water quite reactive?
> To many bourbons ago 
> N2TK, Tony
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
>  On Behalf Of Paul Christensen
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2020 3:54 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling
> 
>> "Until it leaks on the LDMOS devices."
> 
> Pure water is an insulator.  Leakage becomes a problem when water becomes 
> contaminated with conductive particles.  This rarely occurs in closed loop 
> systems that use distilled water when non-contaminating hoses, fittings, and 
> heat exchangers are used.  My 2KW LDMOS amp uses water cooling in such a
> closed system. 
> 
> My main amplifier at home is an Alpha PA-70V.  The amp uses an openly-cooled 
> vapor-phase system.  A pint of distilled water separates 4KV of plate voltage 
> and chassis ground.  Water is in direct contact with the plate. In time, air 
> particles do contaminate the water (usually in the form of algae) and the 
> system must be purged and refilled at annual intervals.  If leakage exceeds a 
> predetermined amount, the amp faults and shuts down.  
> 
> Paul, W9AC  
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling

2020-07-23 Thread W2xj
glycol and anti freeze. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 23, 2020, at 4:49 PM, N2TK via Elecraft  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Paul,
> I can't remember what we used to use for closed loop cooling. I don't think 
> we used distilled water because it's resistance would increase over time from 
> picking up ions from the metal. In our case it was cooling loops in a copper 
> 37" electrode. I thought it was some kind of antifreeze or maybe an oil? And 
> also isn't distilled water quite reactive?
> To many bourbons ago 
> N2TK, Tony
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
> Behalf Of Paul Christensen
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2020 3:54 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling
> 
>> "Until it leaks on the LDMOS devices."
> 
> Pure water is an insulator.  Leakage becomes a problem when water becomes 
> contaminated with conductive particles.  This rarely occurs in closed loop 
> systems that use distilled water when non-contaminating hoses, fittings, and 
> heat exchangers are used.  My 2KW LDMOS amp uses water cooling in such a
> closed system. 
> 
> My main amplifier at home is an Alpha PA-70V.  The amp uses an openly-cooled 
> vapor-phase system.  A pint of distilled water separates 4KV of plate voltage 
> and chassis ground.  Water is in direct contact with the plate. In time, air 
> particles do contaminate the water (usually in the form of algae) and the 
> system must be purged and refilled at annual intervals.  If leakage exceeds a 
> predetermined amount, the amp faults and shuts down.  
> 
> Paul, W9AC  
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling

2020-07-23 Thread N2TK via Elecraft
Hi Paul,
I can't remember what we used to use for closed loop cooling. I don't think we 
used distilled water because it's resistance would increase over time from 
picking up ions from the metal. In our case it was cooling loops in a copper 
37" electrode. I thought it was some kind of antifreeze or maybe an oil? And 
also isn't distilled water quite reactive?
To many bourbons ago 
N2TK, Tony


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Paul Christensen
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2020 3:54 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling

>"Until it leaks on the LDMOS devices."

Pure water is an insulator.  Leakage becomes a problem when water becomes 
contaminated with conductive particles.  This rarely occurs in closed loop 
systems that use distilled water when non-contaminating hoses, fittings, and 
heat exchangers are used.  My 2KW LDMOS amp uses water cooling in such a
closed system. 

My main amplifier at home is an Alpha PA-70V.  The amp uses an openly-cooled 
vapor-phase system.  A pint of distilled water separates 4KV of plate voltage 
and chassis ground.  Water is in direct contact with the plate. In time, air 
particles do contaminate the water (usually in the form of algae) and the 
system must be purged and refilled at annual intervals.  If leakage exceeds a 
predetermined amount, the amp faults and shuts down.  

Paul, W9AC  


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[Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling

2020-07-23 Thread Paul Christensen
>"Until it leaks on the LDMOS devices."

Pure water is an insulator.  Leakage becomes a problem when water becomes
contaminated with conductive particles.  This rarely occurs in closed loop
systems that use distilled water when non-contaminating hoses, fittings, and
heat exchangers are used.  My 2KW LDMOS amp uses water cooling in such a
closed system. 

My main amplifier at home is an Alpha PA-70V.  The amp uses an openly-cooled
vapor-phase system.  A pint of distilled water separates 4KV of plate
voltage and chassis ground.  Water is in direct contact with the plate. In
time, air particles do contaminate the water (usually in the form of algae)
and the system must be purged and refilled at annual intervals.  If leakage
exceeds a predetermined amount, the amp faults and shuts down.  

Paul, W9AC  


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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling

2020-07-23 Thread W2xj
We have 40 KW liquid cooled solid state transmitters and they don’t leak. It 
depends on if it is properly designed. There are TV transmitters over 100 KW 
and liquid cooling is common in many models and they don’t leak as well. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 23, 2020, at 1:10 PM, Dave  wrote:
> 
> Until it leaks on the LDMOS devices.
> 
> 
> Seriously, I would like to see the KPA1500 available with a larger finned 
> heat sink and in a larger enclosure using 120 mm fans. That would move a lot 
> of air across  a larger heat dissipation area keeping noise and temps down. 
> 
> I love the 1500 and under normal use I can tolerate the noise. Contesting 
> gets a little loud. That is what the Bose QC30 noise cancelling headphones 
> are for. 
> 
> Dave wo2x
> 
> Sent from my waxed string and tin cans. 
> 
>> On Jul 23, 2020, at 1:00 PM, W2xj  wrote:
>> 
>> Personally I would love to see a liquid cooled  high powered linear 
>> amplifier. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
 On Jul 23, 2020, at 12:40 PM, Richard Zalewski  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Firm believer in cooler is better.  Also believe one must be careful not to
>>> disrupt designed air flow.  I purchased this :
>>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0059BCVXY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8=1
>>> and put it on the desk to the side of the amp.  Seems to aid in moving the
>>> warm air from under amp and drops the temp 2-3 degrees C.
>>> 
>>> Richard
>>> *W7ZR* ex:5C5Z, CN2ZR, K2JSP, W6SBZ, W7KXR, K9ZIJ, W9KNF, W0KDF, W0MQU,
>>> J68ZR, KC6ZR, PJ4/W7ZR, KH2,W7ZR, KH6/W7ZR, V31ZR, VK4AAZ, XE2DV
>>> 
>>> 
>>> *Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer*
>>> __
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>>> 
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling

2020-07-23 Thread Dave
Until it leaks on the LDMOS devices.


 Seriously, I would like to see the KPA1500 available with a larger finned heat 
sink and in a larger enclosure using 120 mm fans. That would move a lot of air 
across  a larger heat dissipation area keeping noise and temps down. 

I love the 1500 and under normal use I can tolerate the noise. Contesting gets 
a little loud. That is what the Bose QC30 noise cancelling headphones are for. 

Dave wo2x

Sent from my waxed string and tin cans. 

> On Jul 23, 2020, at 1:00 PM, W2xj  wrote:
> 
> Personally I would love to see a liquid cooled  high powered linear 
> amplifier. 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Jul 23, 2020, at 12:40 PM, Richard Zalewski  wrote:
>> 
>> Firm believer in cooler is better.  Also believe one must be careful not to
>> disrupt designed air flow.  I purchased this :
>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0059BCVXY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8=1
>> and put it on the desk to the side of the amp.  Seems to aid in moving the
>> warm air from under amp and drops the temp 2-3 degrees C.
>> 
>> Richard
>> *W7ZR* ex:5C5Z, CN2ZR, K2JSP, W6SBZ, W7KXR, K9ZIJ, W9KNF, W0KDF, W0MQU,
>> J68ZR, KC6ZR, PJ4/W7ZR, KH2,W7ZR, KH6/W7ZR, V31ZR, VK4AAZ, XE2DV
>> 
>> 
>> *Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer*
>> __
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>> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling

2020-07-23 Thread W2xj
Personally I would love to see a liquid cooled  high powered linear amplifier. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 23, 2020, at 12:40 PM, Richard Zalewski  wrote:
> 
> Firm believer in cooler is better.  Also believe one must be careful not to
> disrupt designed air flow.  I purchased this :
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0059BCVXY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8=1
> and put it on the desk to the side of the amp.  Seems to aid in moving the
> warm air from under amp and drops the temp 2-3 degrees C.
> 
> Richard
> *W7ZR* ex:5C5Z, CN2ZR, K2JSP, W6SBZ, W7KXR, K9ZIJ, W9KNF, W0KDF, W0MQU,
> J68ZR, KC6ZR, PJ4/W7ZR, KH2,W7ZR, KH6/W7ZR, V31ZR, VK4AAZ, XE2DV
> 
> 
> *Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer*
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to w...@w2xj.net 
> 

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[Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling

2020-07-23 Thread Richard Zalewski
Firm believer in cooler is better.  Also believe one must be careful not to
disrupt designed air flow.  I purchased this :
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0059BCVXY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8=1
 and put it on the desk to the side of the amp.  Seems to aid in moving the
warm air from under amp and drops the temp 2-3 degrees C.

Richard
*W7ZR* ex:5C5Z, CN2ZR, K2JSP, W6SBZ, W7KXR, K9ZIJ, W9KNF, W0KDF, W0MQU,
J68ZR, KC6ZR, PJ4/W7ZR, KH2,W7ZR, KH6/W7ZR, V31ZR, VK4AAZ, XE2DV


*Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer*
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