Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Faulting for High SWR inappropriately

2022-12-30 Thread David Woolley 

On 20/12/2022 01:38, Bob McGraw wrote:
Use an antenna analyzer to determine the actual complex antenna 
impedance.   I've always viewed SWR as more of a hocus pocus value, easy 
value to obtain, but very broad in definition as it is a ratio between 
two impedance, both usually unknown.


Whilst I'd agree that its usefulness is overstated, it is not the ratio 
of two impedances, and one of the impedances is generally known (unless 
you are measuring the the Lecher line way, by actually finding the 
voltage peaks and troughs on an open line, of unknown characteristic 
impedance).


I don't think the professionals have used for a very long time.  They 
prefer s parameters, or if they want a single number, they use return 
loss.  It is basically only heavily used in the amateur and CB communities.


Generally it is defined assuming an ideal transmission line, with a 
purely resistive impedance. and in that case, the only time that it 
equals a ratio is when the load impedance is also purely resistive.


The main advantage of SWR is that it can be physically measured without 
having to use anything other than the magnitude of the voltages read 
(i.e. no phase information).  But this means that the same SWR can be 
completely safe or destroy a PA, depending on the phase information.


--
David Woolley
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Faulting for High SWR inappropriately

2022-12-20 Thread Hal Massey 
Merry Christmas! Make sure it is not a transient antenna condition. A solid 
state amp is going to detect faults rather quickly. A lot of a log 
SWR/Wattmeters may not see these same faults…. 

> On Dec 19, 2022, at 8:51 PM, Jack Brindle via Elecraft 
>  wrote:
> 
> What is the fault? We see a lot of issues with antenna systems not being able 
> to handle the higher power, either 500 or 1500 watts. This can develop over 
> time or show up very quickly after the amp is installed. Be sure to check the 
> cabling and connectors for possible arcing.
> In this situation, things would work just fine at low power, but not at high 
> power, with the exact symptoms  you describe.
> 
> 
> 73,
> Jack, W6FB
> 
> 
>> On Dec 19, 2022, at 3:58 PM, David F. Reed > > wrote:
>> 
>> Lou,
>> 
>> I appreciate the suggestion, but it is with a K4D, properly cabled, used to 
>> work fine, and does it on some bands but not others... changed the delay to 
>> 15ms and still does it... Also seems to depend on band; for example, does it 
>> on 10m, not on 12m...
>> 
>> Also, below, I said 2 SWR meters; I meant 3...
>> 
>> 73 de Dave, W5SV
>> 
>> On 19-12-22 21:28, Lou Laderman wrote:
>>> Check the delay setting on your transmitter. You might have a hot switching 
>>> issue. I think (but check your manual) that unless you’re using the KPA1500 
>>> with a K3 or K4 without the 15-pin Elecraft interface cable, you’ll want at 
>>> least 10ms of delay to avoid that. I had that issue with a K4 and a PGXL. 
>>> Default on the K4 is 8ms and the PGXL needed 10ms.
>>> 
>>> 73, Lou W0FK
>>> 
>>> Lou Laderman
>>> Sent from my mobile device
>>> 
>>> On Dec 19, 2022, at 2:59 PM, David F. Reed  wrote:
>>> 
>>> My KPA1500 has started faulting inappropriately for High SWR.
>>> 
>>> I say inappropriately because all 2 of my SWR meters (K4D, KPA1500, Palstar 
>>> HF-AUTO) show an SWR of between 1.1:1 and 1.2:1. with just the K$ 
>>> transmitting and also with the KPA1500 in fine as it faults out.
>>> 
>>> Any ideas?
>>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Faulting for High SWR inappropriately

2022-12-19 Thread Jack Brindle via Elecraft 
What is the fault? We see a lot of issues with antenna systems not being able 
to handle the higher power, either 500 or 1500 watts. This can develop over 
time or show up very quickly after the amp is installed. Be sure to check the 
cabling and connectors for possible arcing.
In this situation, things would work just fine at low power, but not at high 
power, with the exact symptoms  you describe.


73,
Jack, W6FB


> On Dec 19, 2022, at 3:58 PM, David F. Reed  wrote:
> 
> Lou,
> 
> I appreciate the suggestion, but it is with a K4D, properly cabled, used to 
> work fine, and does it on some bands but not others... changed the delay to 
> 15ms and still does it... Also seems to depend on band; for example, does it 
> on 10m, not on 12m...
> 
> Also, below, I said 2 SWR meters; I meant 3...
> 
> 73 de Dave, W5SV
> 
> On 19-12-22 21:28, Lou Laderman wrote:
>> Check the delay setting on your transmitter. You might have a hot switching 
>> issue. I think (but check your manual) that unless you’re using the KPA1500 
>> with a K3 or K4 without the 15-pin Elecraft interface cable, you’ll want at 
>> least 10ms of delay to avoid that. I had that issue with a K4 and a PGXL. 
>> Default on the K4 is 8ms and the PGXL needed 10ms.
>> 
>> 73, Lou W0FK
>> 
>> Lou Laderman
>> Sent from my mobile device
>> 
>> On Dec 19, 2022, at 2:59 PM, David F. Reed  wrote:
>> 
>> My KPA1500 has started faulting inappropriately for High SWR.
>> 
>> I say inappropriately because all 2 of my SWR meters (K4D, KPA1500, Palstar 
>> HF-AUTO) show an SWR of between 1.1:1 and 1.2:1. with just the K$ 
>> transmitting and also with the KPA1500 in fine as it faults out.
>> 
>> Any ideas?
>> 
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[Elecraft] KPA1500 Faulting for High SWR inappropriately

2022-12-19 Thread Bob McGraw 
Use an antenna analyzer to determine the actual complex antenna 
impedance.   I've always viewed SWR as more of a hocus pocus value, easy 
value to obtain, but very broad in definition as it is a ratio between 
two impedance, both usually unknown.


 Chances are the antenna or a connector or feed line or lightning 
protection device is breaking down under power.   The SWR meter won't 
show this.


73

Bob, K4TAX

On 12/19/2022 4:55 PM, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote:

Message: 19
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2022 20:59:21 +
From: "David F. Reed"
To:"elecraft@mailman.qth.net"  ,
kpa1...@groups.io
Cc: Elecraft Support
Subject: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Faulting for High SWR inappropriately
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

My KPA1500 has started faulting inappropriately for High SWR.

I say inappropriately because all 2 of my SWR meters (K4D, KPA1500,
Palstar HF-AUTO) show an SWR of between 1.1:1 and 1.2:1. with just the
K$ transmitting and also with the KPA1500 in fine as it faults out.

Any ideas?

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Faulting for High SWR inappropriately

2022-12-19 Thread Morgan Bailey 
Are you developing an overshoot from the K4?

On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 4:00 PM David F. Reed  wrote:

> Lou,
>
> I appreciate the suggestion, but it is with a K4D, properly cabled, used
> to work fine, and does it on some bands but not others... changed the
> delay to 15ms and still does it... Also seems to depend on band; for
> example, does it on 10m, not on 12m...
>
> Also, below, I said 2 SWR meters; I meant 3...
>
> 73 de Dave, W5SV
>
> On 19-12-22 21:28, Lou Laderman wrote:
> > Check the delay setting on your transmitter. You might have a hot
> switching issue. I think (but check your manual) that unless you’re using
> the KPA1500 with a K3 or K4 without the 15-pin Elecraft interface cable,
> you’ll want at least 10ms of delay to avoid that. I had that issue with a
> K4 and a PGXL. Default on the K4 is 8ms and the PGXL needed 10ms.
> >
> > 73, Lou W0FK
> >
> > Lou Laderman
> > Sent from my mobile device
> >
> > On Dec 19, 2022, at 2:59 PM, David F. Reed  wrote:
> >
> > My KPA1500 has started faulting inappropriately for High SWR.
> >
> > I say inappropriately because all 2 of my SWR meters (K4D, KPA1500,
> Palstar HF-AUTO) show an SWR of between 1.1:1 and 1.2:1. with just the K$
> transmitting and also with the KPA1500 in fine as it faults out.
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Faulting for High SWR inappropriately

2022-12-19 Thread David F. Reed 

Lou,

I appreciate the suggestion, but it is with a K4D, properly cabled, used 
to work fine, and does it on some bands but not others... changed the 
delay to 15ms and still does it... Also seems to depend on band; for 
example, does it on 10m, not on 12m...


Also, below, I said 2 SWR meters; I meant 3...

73 de Dave, W5SV

On 19-12-22 21:28, Lou Laderman wrote:

Check the delay setting on your transmitter. You might have a hot switching 
issue. I think (but check your manual) that unless you’re using the KPA1500 
with a K3 or K4 without the 15-pin Elecraft interface cable, you’ll want at 
least 10ms of delay to avoid that. I had that issue with a K4 and a PGXL. 
Default on the K4 is 8ms and the PGXL needed 10ms.

73, Lou W0FK

Lou Laderman
Sent from my mobile device

On Dec 19, 2022, at 2:59 PM, David F. Reed  wrote:

My KPA1500 has started faulting inappropriately for High SWR.

I say inappropriately because all 2 of my SWR meters (K4D, KPA1500, Palstar 
HF-AUTO) show an SWR of between 1.1:1 and 1.2:1. with just the K$ transmitting 
and also with the KPA1500 in fine as it faults out.

Any ideas?


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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Faulting for High SWR inappropriately

2022-12-19 Thread Lou Laderman via Elecraft 
Check the delay setting on your transmitter. You might have a hot switching 
issue. I think (but check your manual) that unless you’re using the KPA1500 
with a K3 or K4 without the 15-pin Elecraft interface cable, you’ll want at 
least 10ms of delay to avoid that. I had that issue with a K4 and a PGXL. 
Default on the K4 is 8ms and the PGXL needed 10ms.

73, Lou W0FK

Lou Laderman
Sent from my mobile device 

On Dec 19, 2022, at 2:59 PM, David F. Reed  wrote:

My KPA1500 has started faulting inappropriately for High SWR.

I say inappropriately because all 2 of my SWR meters (K4D, KPA1500, Palstar 
HF-AUTO) show an SWR of between 1.1:1 and 1.2:1. with just the K$ transmitting 
and also with the KPA1500 in fine as it faults out.

Any ideas?

-- 
Thanks & 73 de Dave, W5SV

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[Elecraft] KPA1500 Faulting for High SWR inappropriately

2022-12-19 Thread David F. Reed 

My KPA1500 has started faulting inappropriately for High SWR.

I say inappropriately because all 2 of my SWR meters (K4D, KPA1500, 
Palstar HF-AUTO) show an SWR of between 1.1:1 and 1.2:1. with just the 
K$ transmitting and also with the KPA1500 in fine as it faults out.


Any ideas?

--
Thanks & 73 de Dave, W5SV

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