Re: [Elecraft] Mast question

[Don Wilhelm]

Reuben,

If you do not want to go much higher than 30 feet, and are willing to 
bracket the mast to the house peak, you can use 3 lengths of chain-link 
fence top rail.  It is relatively inexpensive and a 30 foot mast can be 
"walked up" by one person (don't try it with 40 feet).


With the mast supported about halfway up you should not need any guy 
wires unless you get high winds or the antenna is quite heavy.  I have 
used up to 20 feet of that chain-link top rail sections unsupported 
above the bracket successfully here.  If you go higher, guy wires would 
be mandatory.


You could guy to the corners of the house and run the antenna legs in a 
direction opposite those guy wires for full "guying" of the mast.  I am 
thinking the antenna would be in an inverted Vee configuration with the 
antenna ends connected to a fence or to a post in the ground so the 
wires are above head level.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/27/2016 9:19 AM, Reuben Popp wrote:

Hey everyone, more of a beginner question here and not [directly] Elecraft
related.

I have a K2 I built some time ago that I paired with a half size g5rv.  At
the time, I was living with a buddy whose house design allowed me to set
that antenna up as a sloper (and it worked quite well).  That said, some
years have passed, I'm married now and the house I live in now is much
smaller.  I have the antenna still, but it's merely laid along the vertex
of the roof.  Reception is so-so, but I know it could be much better.  So,
what can I use for a reliable mast that would be left up all the time?

There's no trees in the lot. The house itself is a single level house on a
slab (no basement). and from end to end it's _maybe_ all of 40'.  The
distance from the ground to the vertex is maybe all of 16 feet (or there
abouts).



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Re: [Elecraft] Mast question

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

That and similar designs are in almost any ARRL Handbook from the 1930's
into the ARRL Antenna manuals of the 1960's. Sometimes the old designs are
the best designs. 

Living on a postage-stamp sized lot a few years ago and not wanting a huge
ugly mast I erected an inverted vee using a mast made out of five 1x2 pieces
of lumber. Each length was only 8 feet. They were arranged in a T formation
with the edge of one screwed and glued against the wide part of the other
and staggered so solid wood bridged the butted joints. The last 1X2 was used
to make short sections for further reinforce the joints. I mounted it on the
house just outside the shack window with the base about 10 feet up, so the
total height was just under 30 feet at the peak: OK for 40 meter NVIS (many
QRP contacts out to 1500 miles or so and the occasional DX) and perfect for
20 meters and up to pick up maximum low-angle earth reflections. 

Painted white, the mast had to be pointed out to people outside before they
noticed it and it held my doublet for a number of years until we moved away.


With the mast supported in two places about 4 feet apart near the bottom and
the inverted V providing some self-guying at the top, it needed no further
support. 

I, too, had limited length available. No trees and just the peak of the roof
and garage for end supports. I'm a fan of doublets (non-half wave center fed
wires) and fed mine with open wire line. Not liking ribbon line much, I
picked up some 12 ga house wire and a bunch of white "dog-bone" antenna
insulators at HRO along with a handful of screw-in standoffs for TV "ladder
line". I popped the insulators for the ladder line out of the screw eyes and
screwed them into the mast at about 4 ft intervals.  Then I opened the eyes
enough to clamp them around the center grove in the dog bone insulators
(ladder line eyelets are quite soft metal -unlike real "screw eyes". The
insulators were about 4 inches hole-to-hole, which made great ladder line
spacing. A short piece of wire wrapped around each feeder where it passed
through the hole in the insulator kept it from shifting. Only a few were
needed. Screwing the eyelets into the pole kept the line stable in any wind
and the white insulators and white wires were darn near invisible from 20
feet unless they were pointed out. 

My radiator was about 60 feet overall, plenty to work with very high
efficiency on 40 and up and I made a number of contacts on 80 M. One thing
you can do to get more room for a resonant wire is to bend it at the ends up
to 90 degrees. If the ends can go to the peak of your roof just continue the
wire on down to the eaves keeping it several inches from the roof (assuming
you don't have a metal roof). You should pick up 15 feet or so at each end
that way. 

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of JJ
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 10:57 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Mast question

3 16' 2X4's and you're in business.
Google 2X4 antenna mast.
Good luck and 73,
Jon
WS1K

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Re: [Elecraft] Mast question

[Vic Rosenthal]

You could put up a TV-type 10-foot mast on each end of the roof using a pair of 
eave mounts for each one. Then run the antenna between them. There isn't enough 
room for the whole antenna, but you can bend the ends down on either end. You 
would need a third mast in the middle of the roof to support the feed line and 
keep the center from sagging. That one would need guys, but they would all be 
above roof level.

Vic 4X6GP

> On 27 May 2016, at 4:19 PM, Reuben Popp  wrote:
> 
> Hey everyone, more of a beginner question here and not [directly] Elecraft
> related.
> 
> I have a K2 I built some time ago that I paired with a half size g5rv.  At
> the time, I was living with a buddy whose house design allowed me to set
> that antenna up as a sloper (and it worked quite well).  That said, some
> years have passed, I'm married now and the house I live in now is much
> smaller.  I have the antenna still, but it's merely laid along the vertex
> of the roof.  Reception is so-so, but I know it could be much better.  So,
> what can I use for a reliable mast that would be left up all the time?
> 
> There's no trees in the lot. The house itself is a single level house on a
> slab (no basement). and from end to end it's _maybe_ all of 40'.  The
> distance from the ground to the vertex is maybe all of 16 feet (or there
> abouts).
> 
> The XYL said she doesn't want guy wires all over and a rohn style tower is
> out of my budget.  I'm looking for suggestions that's preferably < $300, if
> possible.  The locale is mid-east Missouri, about an hour outside St.
> Louis; storms come and go but it's not like I'm in tornado country (if that
> helps any).
> 
> So, what do folks recommend?
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[Elecraft] Mast question

[JJ]

3 16' 2X4's and you're in business.
Google 2X4 antenna mast.
Good luck and 73,
Jon
WS1K
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Re: [Elecraft] Mast question

[Wes]

A number of years ago I purchased two 20' lengths of 2" square, 1/8" wall 
fiberglass tubing for the boom of an LPD array that I never built.  They have 
been laying outside on the ground in the Arizona sun since then.  They are still 
as smooth as the day I brought them home.  Contrast that to some of the mil 
surplus fiberglass tubing sections that have gone in the trash in a shorter 
time.  The good stuff is made by Strongwell and is used for handrail systems.


On 5/27/2016 9:42 AM, GRANT YOUNGMAN wrote:

I’ve tried fiberglass poles (from one of the vendors mentioned here, supposedly 
with UV inhibitors) for permanent installation.  Didn’t work out well.  After a 
couple of years, the push-up poles started to break down anyway and couldn’t be 
handled without gloves unless I wanted nasty fiberglass fuzz imbedded in my 
hands.  They ended up going out in the trash.

There are certainly a lot of other options, and some have been suggested here.  
I finally ended up using a Spiderbeam aluminum push-up mast.  These are very 
high quality products, which could easily be house bracketed to eliminate the 
need for guys, and much more suited to permanent installation.  My mast (a 
30-something ft HD version) was supported by a ground mounted rotator and guys, 
and held a Hex beam before I had to pull it down to sell my QTH.   Not the same 
application, obviously, but an excellent quality product, and not outlandishly 
expensive.

YMMV

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091, KX3 #8342





Fiberglass poles such as those from Spiderbeam or Max-Gain Systems (
mgs4u.com ) won't support very much load without guys

Look into the Spiderbeam fiberglass poles.  Quite sturdy and all kinds of
lengths.  Well within your budget.

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Re: [Elecraft] Mast question

[GRANT YOUNGMAN]

I’ve tried fiberglass poles (from one of the vendors mentioned here, supposedly 
with UV inhibitors) for permanent installation.  Didn’t work out well.  After a 
couple of years, the push-up poles started to break down anyway and couldn’t be 
handled without gloves unless I wanted nasty fiberglass fuzz imbedded in my 
hands.  They ended up going out in the trash.

There are certainly a lot of other options, and some have been suggested here.  
I finally ended up using a Spiderbeam aluminum push-up mast.  These are very 
high quality products, which could easily be house bracketed to eliminate the 
need for guys, and much more suited to permanent installation.  My mast (a 
30-something ft HD version) was supported by a ground mounted rotator and guys, 
and held a Hex beam before I had to pull it down to sell my QTH.   Not the same 
application, obviously, but an excellent quality product, and not outlandishly 
expensive.

YMMV

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091, KX3 #8342




> 
> Fiberglass poles such as those from Spiderbeam or Max-Gain Systems (
> mgs4u.com ) won't support very much load without guys 

>> Look into the Spiderbeam fiberglass poles.  Quite sturdy and all kinds of
>> lengths.  Well within your budget.

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Re: [Elecraft] Mast question

[Jim Brown]

On Fri,5/27/2016 8:16 AM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:

Look into the Spiderbeam fiberglass poles.  Quite sturdy and all kinds of 
lengths.  Well within your budget.


NOT sturdy. If you're going to use one, it MUST be well guyed, contrary 
to advertising and photos on their website.


A simple solution I used on the house I owned in Chicago were Radio 
Shack tripods and masts designed for holding TV antennas. One at the 
front peak of the house roof and another at the peak of the garage roof 
held up a loaded 80/40 dipole (about 100 ft long, with loading coils, 
purchased from HyPower Antenna Co). Those masts WERE guyed, using #12 
insulated copper, and I loaded one of them as a vertical on 30M and 10M, 
with radials, of course.


Another option worth considering is a multi-band vertical on your roof. 
Antennas like the HyGain AV620 AV640, and AV680, the the Cushcraft R6, 
R8,and R9 are good choices -- they're well designed and don't need 
radials. Lots of ideas in this piece that I wrote last year for National 
Contest Journal. http://k9yc.com/AntennaPlanning.pdf  and the slides for 
a talk I've done at Pacificon and for several ham clubs. It includes 
photos of the TV masts.


http://k9yc.com/LimitedSpaceAntennasPPT.pdf

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Mast question

[Neil Martinsen-Burrell]

Fiberglass poles such as those from Spiderbeam or Max-Gain Systems (
mgs4u.com) won't support very much load without guys which your wife
disallowed (completely?). If you just want to support your G5RV above the
level of your roof, then you could use two roof tripods like those used for
TV antennas. Just put two 5-foot lengths of TV mast in each one and you'll
be more than 25 feet above the ground and 10 feet clear of
the roof.

If you are an inveterate scrounger, you could almost certainly get these
from the roofs of people who no longer use OTA TV antennas.  When I drive
around here, there are lots of TV antennas in states of disrepair that I'm
sure the homeowners would be glad to get rid of.

If you don't want to bolt through the roof, you could use bracketed wooden
masts on each end of the house. You could also consider going to a longer
open-wire fed doublet with the center over your roof, supported by the two
roof towers, then extending off the house to a high attachment point on
each end (you could use an eight foot T-post). With a tuner, you should be
able to work all bands 80-6 once the total length of the antenna gets up
around 90 feet (and it doesn't have to run in a straight line).


-Neil N0FN

On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 10:16 AM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft <
elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote:

> Look into the Spiderbeam fiberglass poles.  Quite sturdy and all kinds of
> lengths.  Well within your budget.
> Mel, K6KBE
>
>
>   From: George Dubovsky <n4ua...@gmail.com>
>  To: Reuben Popp <reuben.p...@gmail.com>
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
>  Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 7:19 AM
>  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mast question
>
> I would look for 3 used sections of Rohn 25, then figure out how to safely
> bracket it to your house, if possible. That should be do-able for somewhere
> close to your budget and certainly capable of holding up a G5RV.
>
> 73,
>
> geo - n4ua
>
> On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 9:19 AM, Reuben Popp <reuben.p...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hey everyone, more of a beginner question here and not [directly]
> Elecraft
> > related.
> >
> > I have a K2 I built some time ago that I paired with a half size g5rv.
> At
> > the time, I was living with a buddy whose house design allowed me to set
> > that antenna up as a sloper (and it worked quite well).  That said, some
> > years have passed, I'm married now and the house I live in now is much
> > smaller.  I have the antenna still, but it's merely laid along the vertex
> > of the roof.  Reception is so-so, but I know it could be much better.
> So,
> > what can I use for a reliable mast that would be left up all the time?
> >
> > There's no trees in the lot. The house itself is a single level house on
> a
> > slab (no basement). and from end to end it's _maybe_ all of 40'.  The
> > distance from the ground to the vertex is maybe all of 16 feet (or there
> > abouts).
> >
> > The XYL said she doesn't want guy wires all over and a rohn style tower
> is
> > out of my budget.  I'm looking for suggestions that's preferably < $300,
> if
> > possible.  The locale is mid-east Missouri, about an hour outside St.
> > Louis; storms come and go but it's not like I'm in tornado country (if
> that
> > helps any).
> >
> > So, what do folks recommend?
> > __
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> >
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Re: [Elecraft] Mast question

[Mel Farrer via Elecraft]

Look into the Spiderbeam fiberglass poles.  Quite sturdy and all kinds of 
lengths.  Well within your budget.
Mel, K6KBE


  From: George Dubovsky <n4ua...@gmail.com>
 To: Reuben Popp <reuben.p...@gmail.com> 
Cc: Elecraft Reflector <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
 Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 7:19 AM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mast question
   
I would look for 3 used sections of Rohn 25, then figure out how to safely
bracket it to your house, if possible. That should be do-able for somewhere
close to your budget and certainly capable of holding up a G5RV.

73,

geo - n4ua

On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 9:19 AM, Reuben Popp <reuben.p...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey everyone, more of a beginner question here and not [directly] Elecraft
> related.
>
> I have a K2 I built some time ago that I paired with a half size g5rv.  At
> the time, I was living with a buddy whose house design allowed me to set
> that antenna up as a sloper (and it worked quite well).  That said, some
> years have passed, I'm married now and the house I live in now is much
> smaller.  I have the antenna still, but it's merely laid along the vertex
> of the roof.  Reception is so-so, but I know it could be much better.  So,
> what can I use for a reliable mast that would be left up all the time?
>
> There's no trees in the lot. The house itself is a single level house on a
> slab (no basement). and from end to end it's _maybe_ all of 40'.  The
> distance from the ground to the vertex is maybe all of 16 feet (or there
> abouts).
>
> The XYL said she doesn't want guy wires all over and a rohn style tower is
> out of my budget.  I'm looking for suggestions that's preferably < $300, if
> possible.  The locale is mid-east Missouri, about an hour outside St.
> Louis; storms come and go but it's not like I'm in tornado country (if that
> helps any).
>
> So, what do folks recommend?
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Re: [Elecraft] Mast question

[George Dubovsky]

I would look for 3 used sections of Rohn 25, then figure out how to safely
bracket it to your house, if possible. That should be do-able for somewhere
close to your budget and certainly capable of holding up a G5RV.

73,

geo - n4ua

On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 9:19 AM, Reuben Popp  wrote:

> Hey everyone, more of a beginner question here and not [directly] Elecraft
> related.
>
> I have a K2 I built some time ago that I paired with a half size g5rv.  At
> the time, I was living with a buddy whose house design allowed me to set
> that antenna up as a sloper (and it worked quite well).  That said, some
> years have passed, I'm married now and the house I live in now is much
> smaller.  I have the antenna still, but it's merely laid along the vertex
> of the roof.  Reception is so-so, but I know it could be much better.  So,
> what can I use for a reliable mast that would be left up all the time?
>
> There's no trees in the lot. The house itself is a single level house on a
> slab (no basement). and from end to end it's _maybe_ all of 40'.  The
> distance from the ground to the vertex is maybe all of 16 feet (or there
> abouts).
>
> The XYL said she doesn't want guy wires all over and a rohn style tower is
> out of my budget.  I'm looking for suggestions that's preferably < $300, if
> possible.  The locale is mid-east Missouri, about an hour outside St.
> Louis; storms come and go but it's not like I'm in tornado country (if that
> helps any).
>
> So, what do folks recommend?
> __
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[Elecraft] Mast question

[Reuben Popp]

Hey everyone, more of a beginner question here and not [directly] Elecraft
related.

I have a K2 I built some time ago that I paired with a half size g5rv.  At
the time, I was living with a buddy whose house design allowed me to set
that antenna up as a sloper (and it worked quite well).  That said, some
years have passed, I'm married now and the house I live in now is much
smaller.  I have the antenna still, but it's merely laid along the vertex
of the roof.  Reception is so-so, but I know it could be much better.  So,
what can I use for a reliable mast that would be left up all the time?

There's no trees in the lot. The house itself is a single level house on a
slab (no basement). and from end to end it's _maybe_ all of 40'.  The
distance from the ground to the vertex is maybe all of 16 feet (or there
abouts).

The XYL said she doesn't want guy wires all over and a rohn style tower is
out of my budget.  I'm looking for suggestions that's preferably < $300, if
possible.  The locale is mid-east Missouri, about an hour outside St.
Louis; storms come and go but it's not like I'm in tornado country (if that
helps any).

So, what do folks recommend?
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