Re: RE: [Elecraft] Mics for the K-3
Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: There are two means of supplying bias for an electret (or preamplified) microphone. The first, used by Elecraft in the K3 and by Icom, is to simply add DC voltage to the microphone hot lead. The second, used by the rest of the world is to use a power adder circuit to the mic line and supply the bias externally. I'm not clear what you mean by the Elecraft K3 method here; are you saying that there is a DC path from input pin of the first active element in the rig's microphone amplifier, or are you simply saying that the bias is injected at the plug end of the cable. In the latter case, this is also the technique used by typical PC sound card/electret microphone combinations. Although the bias is fed to the ring in the jack, the ring and tip are actually interconnected. (I think the reason for this is so that the same socket will work with dynamic microphones, with a mono jack.) I've checked the schematics, and there doesn't seem to be a DC path. The power adder consists of a capacitor between the mic element and the In the case of the K2, that capacitor is internal to the rig, but does exist. It's also the case for the K3, the capacitor is C17 on the third page of the KIO3 schematic. (It may well make a difference at RF, where the inductance of the cable is signficant.) Yaesu/TenTec/Flex-radio) or even a battery. The resistor is not there for voltage dropping, it is there to limit the current to the mic element to a safe value and to prevent the internal impedance of the As I understand the way that electret microphones work, you must not use a resistor value that effectively limits the current, as the FET would be operating in its cutoff region, which is not the ideal region in which to operate (although not as bad as bipolar transistors, which would have particularly bad second harmonic distortion). power supply, particularly any filter or bypass capacitor, from loading the mic (shunting the output). That's generally true, provided the amplifier input impedance is relatively low. If its high, the need to avoid cutting off the FET will limit the value of feed resistor and it may actually become the effective load on the microphone. The ideal power feed would have very high AC impedance and very low DC resistance, but a choke would be much more expensive than a resistor, to the extent that it is not even really worth analyzing whether the circuit would be stable, and immune from mains hum. -- David Woolley Emails are not formal business letters, whatever businesses may want. RFC1855 says there should be an address here, but, in a world of spam, that is no longer good advice, as archive address hiding may not work. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Mics for the K-3
So what everyone is saying is we have Kenwood wiring with the need of the Icom element. I have a mini pro , pro light whatever they called it. (dont think it is made anymore) and have had Yaesu radios. Everything has been plug and play up to this point. Ill have to sort through what I have to turn on or off I guess when the rig gets here. aj9c ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Mics for the K-3
A quick question for whoever. I saw mention that the K-3 was essentially wired like a Kenwood. I already own a Heil headset. Do I just need a new adapter set up for Kenwood and plug in or do you need to order a headset/mic from Elecraft? Mike/aj9c ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Mics for the K-3
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A quick question for whoever. I saw mention that the K-3 was essentially wired like a Kenwood. I already own a Heil headset. Do I just need a new adapter set up for Kenwood and plug in or do you need to order a headset/mic from Elecraft? The Heil Proset that I have has two 3.5 mm phone plugs on it that go to the adapters. They plug directly into the back panel mic and phones jacks of the K3, so you don't need *any* adapter and you don't need to have cords hanging off the front of your K3. If you want to plug it into the front panel, you can use the Heil Kenwood adapter. You do not need to buy the Elecraft version, although that (obviously) works too! -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Mics for the K-3
AJ9C: Do I just need a new adapter set up for Kenwood and plug in or do you need to order a headset/mic from Elecraft? You only need a Heil AD-1K...I used mine from the TS-930S I've had for 23 years. My Pro-Set HC-4 works fine including the foot switch connection. Life is good...and simple! 73, Bill W4ZV http://www.gigaparts.com/store.php?action=profilesku=ZHL-AD-1-K ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Mics for the K-3
Mike, A Heil Kenwood adaptor works fine. I've used it. You can also simply plug both the mic and the phones connectors from a Pro-Set into the back of the K3 and not use the front panel inputs at all. This is really helpful in reducing clutter in front of the radio. 73, andy, ae6y - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: elecraft elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:12 AM Subject: [Elecraft] Mics for the K-3 A quick question for whoever. I saw mention that the K-3 was essentially wired like a Kenwood. I already own a Heil headset. Do I just need a new adapter set up for Kenwood and plug in or do you need to order a headset/mic from Elecraft? Mike/aj9c ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Mics for the K-3
You can get the Kenwood cables for the Heil mics and they will work (according to Chip @ Heil). I bought one yesterday but have not yet installed it. HOWEVER, you must be sure to turn the bias OFF in the mic selection menu of the K3 if you are going to use a non-Elecraft mic. The MH2 from Elecraft uses the Heil Icom element and needs bias. The other Heil mics do not use that element and bias voltage will damage them. k4ia Craig Buck Fredericksburg, Virginia K3 #101 **See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304) ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Mics for the K-3
Hi All, Actually, it is more complicated than that. First of all, you need to be sure you know exactly what kind of mike you have, as in electret or dynamic. Also, when referring to the Pro-Set, you should be sure to distinguish between the Heil Pro-Set with the HC4 or HC5 cartridges (no bias on those), and the Elecraft Pro-Set K2 (made by Heil, and it is the IC version) which does require bias. There is some confusion about Heil microphone/headsets like the Heil Traveler. That is also an electret, and should have bias. however, the adapter for that microphone to mate with a Kenwood, has a dropping resistor of some kind (I measured 2.2K ohms) between pin 5 and pin 1, which is how you get bias I guess on a Kenwood radio--using pin 5. But the Elecraft K3 is shown as having 8 v. on pin 6, not pin 5. There is, however, something like 2.8 volts showing on pin 5 of the K3 microphone connector (front panel). I had some email exchanges with Don Wilhelm about using this mike (the Traveler), and he was concerned about how it seemed to be wired (via the Kenwood adapter). Accordingly, I am not using it, and am using an Elecraft Pro Set K2. I don't plan to use the Traveler until the confusion about the Traveler clears up. I may be wrong, but it seems to me that you don't need any connection on pin 5 or pin 6 (on the microphone) since the bias is apparently applied to pin 1 by turning on bias with the menu. So, maybe for Kenwood adapters, like the one the Traveler uses, one should maybe eliminate the pin 5 to pin 1 interconnection. Alternatively, maybe you should just make up your own adapter. Perhaps someone else can shed some light on this. Dave W7AQK - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mics for the K-3 You can get the Kenwood cables for the Heil mics and they will work (according to Chip @ Heil). I bought one yesterday but have not yet installed it. HOWEVER, you must be sure to turn the bias OFF in the mic selection menu of the K3 if you are going to use a non-Elecraft mic. The MH2 from Elecraft uses the Heil Icom element and needs bias. The other Heil mics do not use that element and bias voltage will damage them. k4ia Craig Buck Fredericksburg, Virginia K3 #101 **See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304) ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Mics for the K-3
There are two means of supplying bias for an electret (or preamplified) microphone. The first, used by Elecraft in the K3 and by Icom, is to simply add DC voltage to the microphone hot lead. The second, used by the rest of the world is to use a power adder circuit to the mic line and supply the bias externally. The power adder consists of a capacitor between the mic element and the microphone input of the radio (to prevent the bias from upsetting the microphone amplifier) and a resistor connected to the junction of the mic element and the capacitor. Power is applied to the other end of the resistor from any available source which can be another pin on the mic connector (pin 6 for Kenwood, pin 5 for Elecraft, pin 2 for Yaesu/TenTec/Flex-radio) or even a battery. The resistor is not there for voltage dropping, it is there to limit the current to the mic element to a safe value and to prevent the internal impedance of the power supply, particularly any filter or bypass capacitor, from loading the mic (shunting the output). There is some confusion about Heil microphone/headsets like the Heil Traveler. That is also an electret, and should have bias. Two solutions: 1) make up your own adapter that has no blocking capacitor and no resistor. Turn on the pin 1 bias in the K3. 2) Use a Kenwood HSTA but move the resistor on pin 6 to pin 5. 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Yarnes Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 6:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mics for the K-3 Hi All, Actually, it is more complicated than that. First of all, you need to be sure you know exactly what kind of mike you have, as in electret or dynamic. Also, when referring to the Pro-Set, you should be sure to distinguish between the Heil Pro-Set with the HC4 or HC5 cartridges (no bias on those), and the Elecraft Pro-Set K2 (made by Heil, and it is the IC version) which does require bias. There is some confusion about Heil microphone/headsets like the Heil Traveler. That is also an electret, and should have bias. however, the adapter for that microphone to mate with a Kenwood, has a dropping resistor of some kind (I measured 2.2K ohms) between pin 5 and pin 1, which is how you get bias I guess on a Kenwood radio--using pin 5. But the Elecraft K3 is shown as having 8 v. on pin 6, not pin 5. There is, however, something like 2.8 volts showing on pin 5 of the K3 microphone connector (front panel). I had some email exchanges with Don Wilhelm about using this mike (the Traveler), and he was concerned about how it seemed to be wired (via the Kenwood adapter). Accordingly, I am not using it, and am using an Elecraft Pro Set K2. I don't plan to use the Traveler until the confusion about the Traveler clears up. I may be wrong, but it seems to me that you don't need any connection on pin 5 or pin 6 (on the microphone) since the bias is apparently applied to pin 1 by turning on bias with the menu. So, maybe for Kenwood adapters, like the one the Traveler uses, one should maybe eliminate the pin 5 to pin 1 interconnection. Alternatively, maybe you should just make up your own adapter. Perhaps someone else can shed some light on this. Dave W7AQK ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
