Re: [Elecraft] New to Elecraft - help with audio settings

[Mike VE3YF]

Rob:

Sorry about that, I was using an old chart, 1,2,3 are at -16,the rest is 
the same. Too many charts and notes around here


*73 De Mike*
*VE3YF

_/http://www.ve3yf.com/_*

On 23-Apr-17 21:16, Mike VE3YF wrote:

Rob:

FWIW, I use a Heil PR-40 which is pretty much the same as the PR-781 
and I have the following set:


Mic-014
Comp-018

Mic lvl set to high (Not Low as Heil Suggests)

1. -14
2. -14
3. -14
4. -03
5. +04
6. +05
7. +07
8. +08

I have had good reports. I could probably fine tune 4-8 on the EQ but 
as suggested the first 3 anywhere - 14 to -16. A lot depends on your 
voice but I think with all the assistance here on the forum you should 
get good reports.

--

*73 De Mike*
*VE3YF

_/http://www.ve3yf.com/_*



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Re: [Elecraft] New to Elecraft - help with audio settings

[Mike VE3YF]

Rob:

FWIW, I use a Heil PR-40 which is pretty much the same as the PR-781 and 
I have the following set:


Mic-014
Comp-018

Mic lvl set to high (Not Low as Heil Suggests)

1. -14
2. -14
3. -14
4. -03
5. +04
6. +05
7. +07
8. +08

I have had good reports. I could probably fine tune 4-8 on the EQ but as 
suggested the first 3 anywhere - 14 to -16. A lot depends on your voice 
but I think with all the assistance here on the forum you should get 
good reports.

--

*73 De Mike*
*VE3YF

_/http://www.ve3yf.com/_*

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Re: [Elecraft] New to Elecraft - help with audio settings

[Jim Brown]

On Mon,4/10/2017 7:45 PM, Bob Nielsen wrote:
Why would you use bias on the CM500?  I thought that it had a dynamic 
microphone.


No, it's an electret. An early version of the advertising blurb (written 
by guess who, a salesman) incorrectly said that it was a dynamic, so 
you're not imagining things. :)


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] New to Elecraft - help with audio settings

[n9tf]

Bob, 

It's an Electric Mic and requires bias. 

Gene 

From: "Bob Nielsen"  

Why would you use bias on the CM500? I thought that it had a dynamic 
microphone. 

73, 

Bob N7XY 


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Re: [Elecraft] New to Elecraft - help with audio settings

[Bob Nielsen]

Why would you use bias on the CM500?  I thought that it had a dynamic 
microphone.


73,

Bob N7XY


On 4/10/17 7:15 PM, n...@comcast.net wrote:


- Original Message -


"jim" 
I strongly disagree with Heil's recommended settings.


I agree with Jim about NOT using the Heil recommended settings. I use both the 
Heil Gold Elite (hold over from another rig), and the Yamaha CM500.
I use the exact same EQ settings for both mics. I use the Heil Gold Elite, set 
in the wide position for general rag chewing, and the CM500 for contesting and 
hunting DX.
EQ settings similar to Jim. 1, 2, and 3 -16, 4 = -3, 5 and 6 = 0, 7 = +12, and 
8 = +9

Front Panel Mic H. (Heil) Mic gain 30, Compression 17. Gives me 5-6 bars ALC 
and 10DB of Compression. Not to punchy easy to listen to.
Rear Panel Mic L. Bias On (CM500), Mic gain 3, Compression 17, Gives me the 
same as above ALC and Comp. Crystal clear punchy audio.

I have Macros M3 and M4 programed to switch between the two mics.

The same EQ settings end up being a really nice match to both mics and serve 
the purpose for intentions.

73 Gene, N9TF
K3S 10057
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Re: [Elecraft] New to Elecraft - help with audio settings

[n9tf]

- Original Message -

> "jim"  

> I strongly disagree with Heil's recommended settings. 


I agree with Jim about NOT using the Heil recommended settings. I use both the 
Heil Gold Elite (hold over from another rig), and the Yamaha CM500. 
I use the exact same EQ settings for both mics. I use the Heil Gold Elite, set 
in the wide position for general rag chewing, and the CM500 for contesting and 
hunting DX. 
EQ settings similar to Jim. 1, 2, and 3 -16, 4 = -3, 5 and 6 = 0, 7 = +12, and 
8 = +9 

Front Panel Mic H. (Heil) Mic gain 30, Compression 17. Gives me 5-6 bars ALC 
and 10DB of Compression. Not to punchy easy to listen to. 
Rear Panel Mic L. Bias On (CM500), Mic gain 3, Compression 17, Gives me the 
same as above ALC and Comp. Crystal clear punchy audio. 

I have Macros M3 and M4 programed to switch between the two mics. 

The same EQ settings end up being a really nice match to both mics and serve 
the purpose for intentions. 

73 Gene, N9TF 
K3S 10057 
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Re: [Elecraft] New to Elecraft - help with audio settings

[Walter Underwood]

The ModMic is an electret mic that can be added to your favorite headphones. 
I’ve been suggesting it to people for years, and I’m delighted to hear that 
someone is using it.

Electret mics are pretty flat, so just go with Jim Brown’s recommendations. You 
can see a graph comparing his recommended contour to Heil’s at my blog post 
(link below). I plotted all the contours posted to the Elecraft mailing list to 
compare them. About half were very similar to K9YC’s contour, and the rest were 
all over the place. 

https://observer.wunderwood.org/2015/09/09/transmit-audio-and-compression-with-the-elecraft-kx3/
 


wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Apr 10, 2017, at 4:52 PM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
> On Mon,4/10/2017 1:50 PM, Peter Chamalian wrote:
>> Jim, a few questions on your settings.
>> 
>> 1.  Do you have a high, mid or low pitch voice?  Mine tends to be mid to
>> high.
> 
> Relatively mid-range.
> 
>> 2.  What mic are you using?  Have the Antlion condenser ModMike 4
> 
> I'm using a Yamaha CM500 boom headset.
> 
>> Given these parameters, is there any changes you would suggest?
> 
> I had never heard of this product, so googled to find the website. The 
> description of this mic is in conflict with itself -- it first calls it a 
> "noise cancelling mic" but down the page calls "uni-directional."  VERY 
> different -- noise cancelling works on the basis of distance -- two perfectly 
> matched capsules, out of polarity, reject sound that isn't within an inch or 
> so of the mic. In general, they sound awful. Unidirectional mics are ok but 
> not great -- they suffer from proximity effect, which strongly boosts low 
> frequency sounds, wind, breath pop,  and vibration (like handling noise).
> 
> I wouldn't change my advice, which says start here and get reports. And that 
> settings for that 4th band and the high boost will depend on your voice and 
> the mic. With this mic, you're more likely to want greater cut of that 4th 
> band.
> 
>> I realize I have to test this myself and get some feedback on quality and 
>> punch but if you had any thoughts I'd appreciate hearing them.
> 
> I'd be happy to run a sked with you to help you judge settings. On one of 
> those increasing rare days that we have decent prop between W6 and W1. :)
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] New to Elecraft - help with audio settings

[Jim Brown]

Sorry. Bands 5 and 6 should remain at 0.

Actually, the settings are not very different. I'm starting from 0, and 
using relatively little boost. By boosting the midrange, their low cut 
relative to mid-range is pretty similar, and their boost of the two 
higher bands is similar, relative to the midrange. BUT -- one thing we 
learned in pro audio is that CUT EQ is better than BOOST EQ, primarily 
because using too much boost can cause the signal chain to run out of 
headroom (that is, clip).


And remember I said 3-6 on the top two bands, and get reports.

73, Jim K9YC

On Mon,4/10/2017 3:35 PM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:

I am trying to compare the Heil contest settings with yours, 5 and 6 are
not mentioned in your post.  The biggest difference seems to be Heil is
showing significant more boost at the top (3200Hz) and also you cut #3
(200Hz) more.

 HEIL  K9YC
1  -16-16
2  -16-16
3  -10-16
4   -6 -6
5   +4  ?
6   +6  ?
7   +8 +5
8  +12 +5



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Re: [Elecraft] New to Elecraft - help with audio settings

[Jim Brown]

On Mon,4/10/2017 1:50 PM, Peter Chamalian wrote:

Jim, a few questions on your settings.

1.  Do you have a high, mid or low pitch voice?  Mine tends to be mid to
high.


Relatively mid-range.


2.  What mic are you using?  Have the Antlion condenser ModMike 4


I'm using a Yamaha CM500 boom headset.


Given these parameters, is there any changes you would suggest?


I had never heard of this product, so googled to find the website. The 
description of this mic is in conflict with itself -- it first calls it 
a "noise cancelling mic" but down the page calls "uni-directional."  
VERY different -- noise cancelling works on the basis of distance -- two 
perfectly matched capsules, out of polarity, reject sound that isn't 
within an inch or so of the mic. In general, they sound awful. 
Unidirectional mics are ok but not great -- they suffer from proximity 
effect, which strongly boosts low frequency sounds, wind, breath pop,  
and vibration (like handling noise).


I wouldn't change my advice, which says start here and get reports. And 
that settings for that 4th band and the high boost will depend on your 
voice and the mic. With this mic, you're more likely to want greater cut 
of that 4th band.



I realize I have to test this myself and get some feedback on quality and punch 
but if you had any thoughts I'd appreciate hearing them.


I'd be happy to run a sked with you to help you judge settings. On one 
of those increasing rare days that we have decent prop between W6 and W1. :)


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] New to Elecraft - help with audio settings

[donovanf]

Hi Pete, 


Whats this all about? 


Go back to your W8FYO, you'll like it a lot better! 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 

- Original Message -

From: "Peter Chamalian"  
To: j...@audiosystemsgroup.com, elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 8:50:31 PM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New to Elecraft - help with audio settings 

Jim, a few questions on your settings. 

1. Do you have a high, mid or low pitch voice? Mine tends to be mid to 
high. 
2. What mic are you using? Have the Antlion condenser ModMike 4 

Given these parameters, is there any changes you would suggest? I realize I 
have to test this myself and get some feedback on quality and punch but if 
you had any thoughts I'd appreciate hearing them. 

Thanks and 73, 
Pete, W1RM 

-Original Message- 
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim 
Brown 
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 1:17 PM 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New to Elecraft - help with audio settings 

I strongly disagree with Heil's recommended settings. 

I will repeat mine for contesting, DXing, and casual operation. 

Three lowest bands maximum cut. Fourth band cut 6 dB. 3-6 dB boost of top 
two bands. 

Then get signal reports from a trained listener, who has his/her RX set for 
wide IF bandwidth. Depending on your voice and the mic, that 4th band may 
need more cut, and/or those top two bands may need more or less boost. 

AFTER EQ has been set, turn CMP down to zero and set mic gain per the 
manual. THEN, with the display set to show Compression, increase CMP to the 
point where you see about 10 dB of compression on voice peaks. 

Why do I recommend the same settings for contesting, DX, and casual 
operation? Because these settings increase talk power by nearly 13 dB, 
equivalent to your 100W rig driving a 2kW amp, and your 10W radio like a 
200W radio. That difference gets you 13 dB higher above QRM and noise, and 
has the effect of minimizing the effects of QSB. For all those reasons, it 
makes it easier for the other station to copy you, which makes for a more 
pleasant QSO. 

Why do I recommend so much bass cut? Because those low frequency sounds 
amount to nearly half the total voice power but make no contribution to 
speech intelligibility. They also include room noise, breath pops, and mic 
handling noise. Getting rid of the lows nearly doubles talk power (3dB). 

73, Jim K9YC 

On Mon,4/10/2017 6:02 AM, j...@kk9a.com wrote: 
> Follow the manual for setting gain and compression plus look at Heil's 
> suggestions for the equalizer: 
> https://heilsound.com/heil-amateur-radio/support/dsp-settings/all-thin 
> gs-elecraft/ 


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[Elecraft] New to Elecraft - help with audio settings

[j...@kk9a.com]

I am trying to compare the Heil contest settings with yours, 5 and 6 are
not mentioned in your post.  The biggest difference seems to be Heil is
showing significant more boost at the top (3200Hz) and also you cut #3
(200Hz) more.

HEIL  K9YC
1  -16-16
2  -16-16
3  -10-16
4   -6 -6
5   +4  ?
6   +6  ?
7   +8 +5
8  +12 +5

73,
John KK9A

From: Jim Brown
Mon Apr 10 13:17:29 EDT 2017


I will repeat mine for contesting, DXing, and casual operation.

Three lowest bands maximum cut. Fourth band cut 6 dB. 3-6 dB boost of
top two bands.

Then get signal reports from a trained listener, who has his/her RX set
for wide IF bandwidth. Depending on your voice and the mic, that 4th
band may need more cut, and/or those top two bands may need more or less
boost.

AFTER EQ has been set, turn CMP down to zero and set mic gain per the
manual. THEN, with the display set to show Compression, increase CMP to
the point where you see about 10 dB of compression on voice peaks.

Why do I recommend the same settings for contesting, DX, and casual
operation? Because these settings increase talk power by nearly 13 dB,
equivalent to your 100W rig driving a 2kW amp, and your 10W radio like a
200W radio. That difference gets you 13 dB higher above QRM and noise,
and has the effect of minimizing the effects of QSB. For all those
reasons, it makes it easier for the other station to copy you, which
makes for a more pleasant QSO.

Why do I recommend so much bass cut? Because those low frequency sounds
amount to nearly half the total voice power but make no contribution to
speech intelligibility. They also include room noise, breath pops, and
mic handling noise. Getting rid of the lows nearly doubles talk power (3dB).


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Re: [Elecraft] New to Elecraft - help with audio settings

[Peter Chamalian]

Jim, a few questions on your settings.

1.  Do you have a high, mid or low pitch voice?  Mine tends to be mid to
high.
2.  What mic are you using?  Have the Antlion condenser ModMike 4

Given these parameters, is there any changes you would suggest?  I realize I
have to test this myself and get some feedback on quality and punch but if
you had any thoughts I'd appreciate hearing them.

Thanks and 73,
Pete, W1RM

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim
Brown
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 1:17 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New to Elecraft - help with audio settings

  I strongly disagree with Heil's recommended settings.

I will repeat mine for contesting, DXing, and casual operation.

Three lowest bands maximum cut. Fourth band cut 6 dB. 3-6 dB boost of top
two bands.

Then get signal reports from a trained listener, who has his/her RX set for
wide IF bandwidth. Depending on your voice and the mic, that 4th band may
need more cut, and/or those top two bands may need more or less boost.

AFTER EQ has been set, turn CMP down to zero and set mic gain per the
manual. THEN, with the display set to show Compression, increase CMP to the
point where you see about 10 dB of compression on voice peaks.

Why do I recommend the same settings for contesting, DX, and casual
operation? Because these settings increase talk power by nearly 13 dB,
equivalent to your 100W rig driving a 2kW amp, and your 10W radio like a
200W radio. That difference gets you 13 dB higher above QRM and noise, and
has the effect of minimizing the effects of QSB. For all those reasons, it
makes it easier for the other station to copy you, which makes for a more
pleasant QSO.

Why do I recommend so much bass cut? Because those low frequency sounds
amount to nearly half the total voice power but make no contribution to
speech intelligibility. They also include room noise, breath pops, and mic
handling noise. Getting rid of the lows nearly doubles talk power (3dB).

73, Jim K9YC

On Mon,4/10/2017 6:02 AM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:
> Follow the manual for setting gain and compression plus look at Heil's 
> suggestions for the equalizer:
> https://heilsound.com/heil-amateur-radio/support/dsp-settings/all-thin
> gs-elecraft/


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Re: [Elecraft] New to Elecraft - help with audio settings

[Jim Brown]

 I strongly disagree with Heil's recommended settings.

I will repeat mine for contesting, DXing, and casual operation.

Three lowest bands maximum cut. Fourth band cut 6 dB. 3-6 dB boost of 
top two bands.


Then get signal reports from a trained listener, who has his/her RX set 
for wide IF bandwidth. Depending on your voice and the mic, that 4th 
band may need more cut, and/or those top two bands may need more or less 
boost.


AFTER EQ has been set, turn CMP down to zero and set mic gain per the 
manual. THEN, with the display set to show Compression, increase CMP to 
the point where you see about 10 dB of compression on voice peaks.


Why do I recommend the same settings for contesting, DX, and casual 
operation? Because these settings increase talk power by nearly 13 dB, 
equivalent to your 100W rig driving a 2kW amp, and your 10W radio like a 
200W radio. That difference gets you 13 dB higher above QRM and noise, 
and has the effect of minimizing the effects of QSB. For all those 
reasons, it makes it easier for the other station to copy you, which 
makes for a more pleasant QSO.


Why do I recommend so much bass cut? Because those low frequency sounds 
amount to nearly half the total voice power but make no contribution to 
speech intelligibility. They also include room noise, breath pops, and 
mic handling noise. Getting rid of the lows nearly doubles talk power (3dB).


73, Jim K9YC

On Mon,4/10/2017 6:02 AM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:

Follow the manual for setting gain and compression plus look at Heil's
suggestions for the equalizer:
https://heilsound.com/heil-amateur-radio/support/dsp-settings/all-things-elecraft/



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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft] New to Elecraft - help with audio settings

[Fred C. Jensen]

If you're still having problems Rob, email me direct. I'm on a crummy keyboard 
rite now.  Fred K6DGW


j...@kk9a.com wrote:
>Follow the manual for setting gain and compression plus look at Heil's
>suggestions for the equalizer: 
>https://heilsound.com/heil-amateur-radio/support/dsp-settings/all-things-elecraft/
>
>John KK9A
>
>From: Rob Monsipapa
>Sun Apr 9 22:34:08 EDT 2017
>
>I just set up my K3, KPA500, KAT500 and P3.  Couldn't get any audio out
>until I changed the mic setting of the front mic connection to high output
>and no bias.  CMP settings is 11, MIC gain is 9 and power on the K3 is set
>at 28watts...  It's now driving the amp up to around 500watts but I get NO
>readings on the CMP and ALC meters, none.  So I feel like I am missing
>something.  I'm using the Heil PR781 mic and need to make some EQ
>settings.
>
>If anyone can offer some suggestions I'd appreciate it.
>
>Rob - AK7RM
>
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>
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>This message has been scanned by E.F.A. Project and is believed to be clean.
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] New to Elecraft - help with audio settings

[j...@kk9a.com]

Follow the manual for setting gain and compression plus look at Heil's
suggestions for the equalizer: 
https://heilsound.com/heil-amateur-radio/support/dsp-settings/all-things-elecraft/

John KK9A

From: Rob Monsipapa
Sun Apr 9 22:34:08 EDT 2017

I just set up my K3, KPA500, KAT500 and P3.  Couldn't get any audio out
until I changed the mic setting of the front mic connection to high output
and no bias.  CMP settings is 11, MIC gain is 9 and power on the K3 is set
at 28watts...  It's now driving the amp up to around 500watts but I get NO
readings on the CMP and ALC meters, none.  So I feel like I am missing
something.  I'm using the Heil PR781 mic and need to make some EQ
settings.

If anyone can offer some suggestions I'd appreciate it.

Rob - AK7RM

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Re: [Elecraft] New to Elecraft - help with audio settings

[Walter Underwood]

If the K3 manual is anything like the KX3 manual, it has steps for voice setup. 
Set everything to zero, set mic level, then the next step. I did this all wrong 
several times with my KX3, then finally read the manual carefully. Before that, 
it was random twiddling and no joy.

I collected the received wisdom from the Elecraft list and put together a blog 
post. Read the manual, then check this out for TX EQ settings. For the K3, you 
might need the DVR option to do to voice A/B (KDVR3).

https://observer.wunderwood.org/2015/09/09/transmit-audio-and-compression-with-the-elecraft-kx3/
 


wunder
Walter Underwood
wun...@wunderwood.org
http://observer.wunderwood.org/  (my blog)


> On Apr 9, 2017, at 7:34 PM, Rob Monsipapa via Elecraft 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> I just set up my K3, KPA500, KAT500 and P3.  Couldn't get any audio out until 
> I changed the mic setting of the front mic connection to high output and no 
> bias.  CMP settings is 11, MIC gain is 9 and power on the K3 is set at 
> 28watts...  It's now driving the amp up to around 500watts but I get NO 
> readings on the CMP and ALC meters, none.  So I feel like I am missing 
> something.  I'm using the Heil PR781 mic and need to make some EQ settings.  
> 
> If anyone can offer some suggestions I'd appreciate it.
> 
> Rob - AK7RM
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> __
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> Message delivered to wun...@wunderwood.org

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[Elecraft] New to Elecraft - help with audio settings

[Rob Monsipapa via Elecraft]

Hello,
I just set up my K3, KPA500, KAT500 and P3.  Couldn't get any audio out until I 
changed the mic setting of the front mic connection to high output and no bias. 
 CMP settings is 11, MIC gain is 9 and power on the K3 is set at 28watts...  
It's now driving the amp up to around 500watts but I get NO readings on the CMP 
and ALC meters, none.  So I feel like I am missing something.  I'm using the 
Heil PR781 mic and need to make some EQ settings.  

If anyone can offer some suggestions I'd appreciate it.

Rob - AK7RM

Sent from my iPad
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