[Elecraft] OT: Attn CPU gurus - help me
I want to hook my K3's up to the latest skimmer software along with computer control of the rig, etc. and of course via the LP-Pan when it is available (soon). My query is about the computer processor and associated elements. Currently, I am reading that the way to go for skimmer (192kc bandwidth - not that I need that), is to use a machine with a 3G processor. But that seems to only account for one element of the system rating. My current ham radio computer is a fossil on which I run DOS stuff. But my home computer (this one) is a Pentium 4, 3.0 Gig. Sounds right, but.. When I look at the new machines (which seem relatively cheap for what you get), I see: Core 2 Quad Q6600 Core 2 Duo Pentiuim Dual Core Celeron Athlon 64 etc. Then I see speeds for each of the above, NONE of which goes up to 3.0 gig. Just because my current processor has the 3.0 gig label, I am assuming that these newer releases are even faster, despite the lower clock rate. For the app's that I'm looking at, DOES CLOCK RATE RULE or does this other stuff count too? I also see big variables on the L2 Cache: 2MB, 4MB, 8MB - relatively speaking, how important are these compared to the other factors? And then there is the Front Side Bus speed: 800, 1333. Weird that the Core 2 Quad (which sounds like the best to me) has a FSB of 1066 (not the fastest). And finally, there is the clock speed, which for most of the above is 2.2, 2.33, 2.66 gig (again, not reaching 3.0). How do I put all this together? Again, for MY apps, which figure of merit is most important? Or do I just multiply them all together? :-) Reminder: CPU gurus only need respond. I prefer direct replies, but I assume that this topic might be of wide interest to the Elecraft group...YOUR CHOICE if you respond to the list or just to me. THANKS A TON! de Doug KR2Q Expert on DRGs, not CPUs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnosis-related_group this page is rather outdated ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: Attn CPU gurus - help me
Hi Doug You've got some real legitimate questions that a lot of us non-gurus would like to hear the answers to. If you get a lot of your replies direct, could you summarize them in a post to us masses? Thanks and 73 Bob N6WG - Original Message - From: DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 3:49 AM Subject: [Elecraft] OT: Attn CPU gurus - help me I want to hook my K3's up to the latest skimmer software along with computer control of the rig, etc. and of course via the LP-Pan when it is available (soon). My query is about the computer processor and associated elements. Currently, I am reading that the way to go for skimmer (192kc bandwidth - not that I need that), is to use a machine with a 3G processor. But that seems to only account for one element of the system rating. My current ham radio computer is a fossil on which I run DOS stuff. But my home computer (this one) is a Pentium 4, 3.0 Gig. Sounds right, but.. When I look at the new machines (which seem relatively cheap for what you get), I see: Core 2 Quad Q6600 Core 2 Duo Pentiuim Dual Core Celeron Athlon 64 etc. Then I see speeds for each of the above, NONE of which goes up to 3.0 gig. Just because my current processor has the 3.0 gig label, I am assuming that these newer releases are even faster, despite the lower clock rate. For the app's that I'm looking at, DOES CLOCK RATE RULE or does this other stuff count too? I also see big variables on the L2 Cache: 2MB, 4MB, 8MB - relatively speaking, how important are these compared to the other factors? And then there is the Front Side Bus speed: 800, 1333. Weird that the Core 2 Quad (which sounds like the best to me) has a FSB of 1066 (not the fastest). And finally, there is the clock speed, which for most of the above is 2.2, 2.33, 2.66 gig (again, not reaching 3.0). How do I put all this together? Again, for MY apps, which figure of merit is most important? Or do I just multiply them all together? :-) Reminder: CPU gurus only need respond. I prefer direct replies, but I assume that this topic might be of wide interest to the Elecraft group...YOUR CHOICE if you respond to the list or just to me. THANKS A TON! de Doug KR2Q Expert on DRGs, not CPUs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnosis-related_group this page is rather outdated ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: Attn CPU gurus - help me
I work for one of the companies in question, so it's hard for me to be completely objective. CPU frequency isn't the only thing because there are multiple internal clocks on the CPUs and one big number isn't going to tell you everything about how fast things are running internally. The Pentium D's with higher clock rates aren't as fast as the Core 2's with lower clock rates in every case I've benchmarked (keep in mind I have only a very minimal set of benchmarks to go on here). You should also look at power consumpution (the fans are going to drive you nuts sometimes). I have noticed that the Core 2 processors are faster but seem to run the fans a lot less than the Pentium Ds. Multi-core processors are going to do well fo you if you need to do multiple processor-intensive things at once. I'm not sure how much processor it requires to do PSK31 while also running all the Vista nonsense in the background; someone else will have to vouch for that. So by now you can probably tell which company I work for. My basic suggestion is to go with a Core 2 system over a Pentium D system because there was a significant architecture change and it helps the computers run cooler and quieter. And that's just me talking, not the company. Oh, and it's usually true nowadays that the computers are fast enough to do whatever you need, unless you're processing video in the background while you're trying to run the rig. On Sat, 23 Feb 2008, Robert Tellefsen wrote: Hi Doug You've got some real legitimate questions that a lot of us non-gurus would like to hear the answers to. If you get a lot of your replies direct, could you summarize them in a post to us masses? Thanks and 73 Bob N6WG - Original Message - From: DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 3:49 AM Subject: [Elecraft] OT: Attn CPU gurus - help me I want to hook my K3's up to the latest skimmer software along with computer control of the rig, etc. and of course via the LP-Pan when it is available (soon). My query is about the computer processor and associated elements. Currently, I am reading that the way to go for skimmer (192kc bandwidth - not that I need that), is to use a machine with a 3G processor. But that seems to only account for one element of the system rating. My current ham radio computer is a fossil on which I run DOS stuff. But my home computer (this one) is a Pentium 4, 3.0 Gig. Sounds right, but.. When I look at the new machines (which seem relatively cheap for what you get), I see: Core 2 Quad Q6600 Core 2 Duo Pentiuim Dual Core Celeron Athlon 64 etc. Then I see speeds for each of the above, NONE of which goes up to 3.0 gig. Just because my current processor has the 3.0 gig label, I am assuming that these newer releases are even faster, despite the lower clock rate. For the app's that I'm looking at, DOES CLOCK RATE RULE or does this other stuff count too? I also see big variables on the L2 Cache: 2MB, 4MB, 8MB - relatively speaking, how important are these compared to the other factors? And then there is the Front Side Bus speed: 800, 1333. Weird that the Core 2 Quad (which sounds like the best to me) has a FSB of 1066 (not the fastest). And finally, there is the clock speed, which for most of the above is 2.2, 2.33, 2.66 gig (again, not reaching 3.0). How do I put all this together? Again, for MY apps, which figure of merit is most important? Or do I just multiply them all together? :-) Reminder: CPU gurus only need respond. I prefer direct replies, but I assume that this topic might be of wide interest to the Elecraft group...YOUR CHOICE if you respond to the list or just to me. THANKS A TON! de Doug KR2Q Expert on DRGs, not CPUs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnosis-related_group this page is rather outdated ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com -- Hisashi T Fujinaka - [EMAIL PROTECTED] BSEE(6/86) + BSChem(3/95) + BAEnglish(8/95) + MSCS(8/03) + $2.50 = latte ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: Attn CPU gurus - help me
I'd pretty much agree. Keep in mind, though, that a dual-core or quad- core CPU, whether it's Intel or AMD, is not often going to help you with much of the software out there that is not specifically written to take advantage of both cores. That's not to say that I wouldn't buy one--in fact, I'd definitely recommend any dual-core CPU over a Pentium D or single-core AMD if you're trying to buy something that will serve your general needs for the foreseeable future. If you're trying to stay on the cheap side, any of those you mentioned will run PSK31 or the other sound card- based programs for ham communications, dual-core or not. If any thing, I'd try to make sure that the box I buy has a decent name brand sound card in it, like a Sound Blaster Audigy or similar card, especially one that advertises more capability than a basic 16- bit A/D converter, which is what most Windows-type sound cards use. They'll all work fine, but a 20-bit card will give you some edge if you get into SDR (software-defined radio) designs or maybe next year's newest sound-card based ham decoders. As far as front-side bus goes, the higher speeds, of course, will give you better performance. The downside is that you will pay more for the faster memory sticks that are required. Generally, you don't need the fastest front-side bus unless you're using software that really needs it, and it doesn't sound like you are. If I were you, I'd probably opt for a mid-range 2+ GHz Intel Core 2 Duo-based box that advertised its quietness. I hate fan noise in the shack, and the older CPU's often run hotter than some of the newer dual-core stuff, requiring faster, noisier fans. I'm sure that the advice to use a 3 GHz processor was assuming the old single-core technology. Even though a dual-core CPU running at 2 GHz won't run twice as fast as a single-core, you will definitely see a benefit compared to the faster single CPU. Some of the operating system overhead (presumably Windows in your case) can be handled more efficiently by the dual-core structure, giving the appearance of a faster overall CPU experience to whatever program you're running. Generally, I'd stay away from anything called Celeron these days. In earlier times it was Intel's code word for cheapest chip with less capabilities than the others. Even if the clock speed is higher. Bottom line: 2 cores at 2.0 GHz will generally run as fast or faster than a 3.0 GHz Pentium D with less heat. A quad core box is great if you want to drop the money on it, but it won't be twice as fast as a dual-core unless you're running very specific software or an OS that can take advantage of it (like Mac OS X). For front-side bus speed, go with whatever your pocketbook allows. Faster is always better. And I'd generally recommend Intel over AMD, but that's a personal preference only. Hope this helps a bit. 73, Dave K7DAA http://www.k7daa.com On Feb 23, 2008, at 2:30 PM, Hisashi T Fujinaka wrote: I work for one of the companies in question, so it's hard for me to be completely objective. CPU frequency isn't the only thing because there are multiple internal clocks on the CPUs and one big number isn't going to tell you everything about how fast things are running internally. The Pentium D's with higher clock rates aren't as fast as the Core 2's with lower clock rates in every case I've benchmarked (keep in mind I have only a very minimal set of benchmarks to go on here). You should also look at power consumpution (the fans are going to drive you nuts sometimes). I have noticed that the Core 2 processors are faster but seem to run the fans a lot less than the Pentium Ds. Multi-core processors are going to do well fo you if you need to do multiple processor-intensive things at once. I'm not sure how much processor it requires to do PSK31 while also running all the Vista nonsense in the background; someone else will have to vouch for that. So by now you can probably tell which company I work for. My basic suggestion is to go with a Core 2 system over a Pentium D system because there was a significant architecture change and it helps the computers run cooler and quieter. And that's just me talking, not the company. Oh, and it's usually true nowadays that the computers are fast enough to do whatever you need, unless you're processing video in the background while you're trying to run the rig. On Sat, 23 Feb 2008, Robert Tellefsen wrote: Hi Doug You've got some real legitimate questions that a lot of us non-gurus would like to hear the answers to. If you get a lot of your replies direct, could you summarize them in a post to us masses? Thanks and 73 Bob N6WG - Original Message - From: DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 3:49 AM Subject: [Elecraft] OT: Attn CPU gurus - help me I want to hook my K3's up to the latest
Re: [Elecraft] OT: Attn CPU gurus - help me
On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 14:30:46 -0800 (PST), you wrote: [snip] You should also look at power consumpution (the fans are going to drive you nuts sometimes). I have noticed that the Core 2 processors are faster but seem to run the fans a lot less than the Pentium Ds. [snip] I can say that you are quite right about the above. I just finished building a rack mount server last week with a Core Duo 2.4G processor with copper pipe cooling running Win 2003 64 bit. It runs cooler than any server I've ever owned and performs very well. The fans are running on slow speed all of the time. It is a domain controller and also supports a SQL Server 2005 Enterprise 64 bit installation. tell you bosses (engineers) good work... Tom, N5GE - SWOT 3537 - Grid EM12jq They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin 1775 Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like. http://www.n5ge.com http://www.eQSL.cc/Member.cfm?N5GE ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
