Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Hi folks - We closed this OT thread yesterday due to the excessively high number 
of postings.


73,

Eric
Moodulator
/elecraft.com/

On 4/1/2016 9:17 AM, Jerry T. Dowell wrote:

My Conditional Class code exam in 1954, administered by an Extra Class ham,
was mixed code groups (5-letter as I recall) sent from an old Signal Corps
manual at 15 wpm or so with a bug. I imagine that a few others who lived in
the boondocks had similar experiences. The rules, of course, called for
plain language text.

Jerry  AI6L

-Original Message-
From: lstavenhagen [mailto:lstavenha...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2016 1:00 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

Oops, my apologies: one of those was me, my excuse will have to be that it
was in 1973 and I guess those memories are no longer what they used to be!

I probably mixed that up with my code practice tapes, which definitely did
have 4 letter code group parts

73,
LS
W5QD


Mike Morrow-3 wrote

Code groups were never part of ham exams at any speed.

Exactly!  Yet some report, even here in the past few days, that their ham
Morse exams were random character code groups.  Thanks for information to
the contrary that can be neither doubted nor disputed!

73,
Mike / KK5F


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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Jerry T. Dowell]

My Conditional Class code exam in 1954, administered by an Extra Class ham,
was mixed code groups (5-letter as I recall) sent from an old Signal Corps
manual at 15 wpm or so with a bug. I imagine that a few others who lived in
the boondocks had similar experiences. The rules, of course, called for
plain language text.

Jerry  AI6L

-Original Message-
From: lstavenhagen [mailto:lstavenha...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2016 1:00 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

Oops, my apologies: one of those was me, my excuse will have to be that it
was in 1973 and I guess those memories are no longer what they used to be!

I probably mixed that up with my code practice tapes, which definitely did
have 4 letter code group parts

73,
LS
W5QD


Mike Morrow-3 wrote
>> Code groups were never part of ham exams at any speed.
> 
> Exactly!  Yet some report, even here in the past few days, that their ham
> Morse exams were random character code groups.  Thanks for information to
> the contrary that can be neither doubted nor disputed!
> 
> 73,
> Mike / KK5F


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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[w7aqk]

Hi All,

I think all the FCC code exams were plain text, not code groups--at least to 
my memory going back to the 50's.  The reason may be obvious, in that the 
examiner had to check them "on the spot", and code groups would have been 
too difficult to check.  I took the Extra Class exam in front of an FCC 
examiner, and I know that was plain text.  I think those guys had the test 
material memorized, because they were checking them off pretty fast!   On my 
test I bracketed a big section I knew was right, and showed it to the 
examiner.  He looked at it for about 3 seconds, and said, "Yeah, you 
passed"!


In the Army, all we used were 5 letter code groups, and those were a bearcat 
to check!  I had that job for a while, and hated it!  Sometimes the hardest 
part was even deciphering what had been written down.  Unfortunately, 
penmanship was never part of the curricula!


Dave W7AQK


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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Phil Kane]

On 3/30/2016 3:18 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

> I'd appreciate actually knowing if groups were part of the exam since I
> can't trust my memory.

Yes, and a little-known secret that can be revealed now was that some of
the groups were mirror-images of each other!


73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

>From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Richard Fjeld]

I remember the FCC engineer administering the test consisting of plain 
text code for my Extra class CW test,
and some of the words were not spelled normally to see if we really 
copied each letter.


I do not remember a code test for the commercial license, but maybe 
credit was given for an Amateur License.
I kinda doubt that.  We were allowed 5 hours if radar endorsement was 
included.  The cost was around $45 ?? pass or fail.


Dick, n0ce

On 3/30/2016 6:29 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

People seem to be confusing US Ham and Commercial license exams.




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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Folks - we are flooding the reflector with the posts on this OT thread. Let's 
take it off-list and close the thread at this time


73,

Eric
/elecraft.com/

On 3/30/2016 4:29 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

People seem to be confusing US Ham and Commercial license exams.

Fred is right, the COMMERICAL RadioTelegraph license back then had code groups 
was well as plain text according to my memory and ex-FCC man Phil's (K2ASP) 
comments.



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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

People seem to be confusing US Ham and Commercial license exams. 

Fred is right, the COMMERICAL RadioTelegraph license back then had code groups 
was well as plain text according to my memory and ex-FCC man Phil's (K2ASP) 
comments. 

I believe Phil said the code groups were 16 wpm while the plain text was 20 wpm 
for the 2nd Class license. 

All I remember 59 years later was sweating perfect copy of the code groups! I 
had to retake the 2nd Class COMMERCIAL license exam in the early 1990's after 
letting my original expire but cannot remember if it had both or just plain 
text. After "pounding brass" for 60 years I was a bit more sanguine about the 
test by that time. 

My Novice 5 wpm and General 13 wpm tests in 1952 were plain text as was my 
Extra test at 20 wpm in about 1972. But those are AMATEUR license tests, not 
commercial. Those tests required solid copy of at least on minute on paper as 
well as sending to the examiner's satisfaction on the straight key at the FCC 
office. 

I believe near the end of the Amateur CW requirement all the applicant had to 
do was receive the CW message and answer some multiple choice questions 
indicating they generally understood what was sent. By then the exams were 
administered by VECs and many of them were not proficient in CW anyway. 

73, Ron AC7AC



-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don Hall
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2016 3:26 PM
To: k6...@foothill.net; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

I took four exams from 1948(Class C) given by W5CEO through 1952 at the FCC 
Office in Dallas(Extra). None of these were code groups.
73  Don  K5AQ 

On Wednesday, March 30, 2016 5:18 PM, Fred Jensen <k6...@foothill.net> 
wrote:
 

 Just for my own edification, were code groups ever part of the commercial 
exams?

It's been nearly a lifetime, but I sat for the 2nd Telegraph in 1956 [I was 
almost 16], and I vaguely think I remember two parts to the code element -- 
plain text and groups.  I also very vaguely think I remember the speeds were 
different [20 and 25?  or maybe the other way around? 
or maybe not].

It was an accident.  I intended to sit for the Extra since I had just passed 
the 2 yr service requirement and got to the FCC in the morning just before the 
telegraph exams.  The Extra was in the afternoon.  He told me to fill out the 
app and if I passed I'd get credit for the telegraph element on the Extra.

I was closest to that intimidating Boehme tape reader with the "steam gauge" 
speed dial, and ... not making this up ... the examiner had garters on the 
sleeves of his shirt and a green eyeshade.  I passed, he gave me the written 
exam ["What's to lose?" he said] which I passed exactly.  Lots of M-G set 
questions which I didn't know, but using maritime circuits for code practice 
paid off in operating knowledge I guess.

I'd appreciate actually knowing if groups were part of the exam since I can't 
trust my memory.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
- www.cqp.org

On 3/30/2016 12:49 PM, Mike Morrow wrote:

>> Code groups were never part of ham exams at any speed.
>
> Exactly!  Yet some report, even here in the past few days, that their 
> ham Morse exams were random character code groups.  Thanks for 
> information to the contrary that can be neither doubted nor disputed!
>
> 73, Mike / KK5F
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Don Hall]

I took four exams from 1948(Class C) given by W5CEO through 1952 at the FCC 
Office in Dallas(Extra). None of these were code groups.
73  Don  K5AQ 

On Wednesday, March 30, 2016 5:18 PM, Fred Jensen  
wrote:
 

 Just for my own edification, were code groups ever part of the 
commercial exams?

It's been nearly a lifetime, but I sat for the 2nd Telegraph in 1956 [I 
was almost 16], and I vaguely think I remember two parts to the code 
element -- plain text and groups.  I also very vaguely think I remember 
the speeds were different [20 and 25?  or maybe the other way around? 
or maybe not].

It was an accident.  I intended to sit for the Extra since I had just 
passed the 2 yr service requirement and got to the FCC in the morning 
just before the telegraph exams.  The Extra was in the afternoon.  He 
told me to fill out the app and if I passed I'd get credit for the 
telegraph element on the Extra.

I was closest to that intimidating Boehme tape reader with the "steam 
gauge" speed dial, and ... not making this up ... the examiner had 
garters on the sleeves of his shirt and a green eyeshade.  I passed, he 
gave me the written exam ["What's to lose?" he said] which I passed 
exactly.  Lots of M-G set questions which I didn't know, but using 
maritime circuits for code practice paid off in operating knowledge I guess.

I'd appreciate actually knowing if groups were part of the exam since I 
can't trust my memory.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
- www.cqp.org

On 3/30/2016 12:49 PM, Mike Morrow wrote:

>> Code groups were never part of ham exams at any speed.
>
> Exactly!  Yet some report, even here in the past few days, that their
> ham Morse exams were random character code groups.  Thanks for
> information to the contrary that can be neither doubted nor
> disputed!
>
> 73, Mike / KK5F
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Fred Jensen]

Just for my own edification, were code groups ever part of the 
commercial exams?


It's been nearly a lifetime, but I sat for the 2nd Telegraph in 1956 [I 
was almost 16], and I vaguely think I remember two parts to the code 
element -- plain text and groups.  I also very vaguely think I remember 
the speeds were different [20 and 25?  or maybe the other way around? 
or maybe not].


It was an accident.  I intended to sit for the Extra since I had just 
passed the 2 yr service requirement and got to the FCC in the morning 
just before the telegraph exams.  The Extra was in the afternoon.  He 
told me to fill out the app and if I passed I'd get credit for the 
telegraph element on the Extra.


I was closest to that intimidating Boehme tape reader with the "steam 
gauge" speed dial, and ... not making this up ... the examiner had 
garters on the sleeves of his shirt and a green eyeshade.  I passed, he 
gave me the written exam ["What's to lose?" he said] which I passed 
exactly.  Lots of M-G set questions which I didn't know, but using 
maritime circuits for code practice paid off in operating knowledge I guess.


I'd appreciate actually knowing if groups were part of the exam since I 
can't trust my memory.


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
- www.cqp.org

On 3/30/2016 12:49 PM, Mike Morrow wrote:


Code groups were never part of ham exams at any speed.


Exactly!  Yet some report, even here in the past few days, that their
ham Morse exams were random character code groups.  Thanks for
information to the contrary that can be neither doubted nor
disputed!

73, Mike / KK5F

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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[lstavenhagen]

Oops, my apologies: one of those was me, my excuse will have to be that it
was in 1973 and I guess those memories are no longer what they used to be!

I probably mixed that up with my code practice tapes, which definitely did
have 4 letter code group parts

73,
LS
W5QD


Mike Morrow-3 wrote
>> Code groups were never part of ham exams at any speed.
> 
> Exactly!  Yet some report, even here in the past few days, that their ham
> Morse exams were random character code groups.  Thanks for information to
> the contrary that can be neither doubted nor disputed!
> 
> 73,
> Mike / KK5F





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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Mike Morrow]

I wrote:

>> I passed the Second Class exam almost 40 years ago, but my old study
>> books for the exam indicate that the tests listed above were in place
>> even before WWII.  AFAIK, the only change occurred in the early 1990s
>> when the FCC began giving credit for all of the above if the
>> candidate held an Amateur Extra license.  

Phil replied:

> That credit was only for the code requirements (which I took advantage
> of) not for the written elements which were different from the ham exam
> elements contents.

Of course...I should have written more clearly if my post implied otherwise.

> The Telegraph exam contents remained the same as they were in
> the 60s (or earlier) up until last year, the only change being
> was that diagrams no longer had to be drawn after the testin
> became privatized.

I took the written elements once, the only radiotelegraph candidate at the 
Kansas City FCC office.  The 100-question exam was 10 percent short answer and 
schematic draws.  After the examiner graded all the multiple-choice questions 
and I passed from just those, he asked if I minded if he did mot grade the 
remaining 10 non-M/C questions...i.e. zero credit.  I said OK.

I wrote:

>> That, of course, wasn't even remotely equivalent...I guess the FCC just
>> got lazy.

> No comment.  I was a FCC code examiner for three decades and lazy
> didn't apply.

I have no doubt...I was not casting aspersions on the examining staff.  They 
were not the ones who made the decision in the early 1990s to accept a ham 
20-wpm read-only test requiring (after 1980) answering 10 multiple-choice 
questions about plain-language text, in place of the far more rigorous 
commercial Morse tests.

>> I took several ham Morse exams at the FCC in the late 1960s and early
>> 1970s.  Contrary to some claims otherwise, I do not ever remember the
>> 13 wpm test being random code groups on a ham exam.  That is far more
>> difficult than plain language to a ham new to Morse.

> Code groups were never part of ham exams at any speed.

Exactly!  Yet some report, even here in the past few days, that their ham Morse 
exams were random character code groups.  Thanks for information to the 
contrary that can be neither doubted nor disputed!

73,
Mike / KK5F

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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Phil Kane]

On 3/29/2016 6:51 PM, Mike Morrow wrote:

> I passed the Second Class exam almost 40 years ago, but my old study
> books for the exam indicate that the tests listed above were in place
> even before WWII.  AFAIK, the only change occurred in the early 1990s
> when the FCC began giving credit for all of the above if the
> candidate held an Amateur Extra license.  

That credit was only for the code requirements (which I took advantage
of) not for the written elements which were different from the ham exam
elements contents.  The Telegraph exam contents remained the same as
they were in the 60s (or earlier) up until last year, the only change
being was that diagrams no longer had to be drawn after the testing
became privatized.

>That, of course, wasn't even remotely equivalent...I guess the FCC just got 
>lazy.

No comment.  I was a FCC code examiner for three decades and lazy didn't
apply.

> I took several ham Morse exams at the FCC in the late 1960s and early
> 1970s.  Contrary to some claims otherwise, I do not ever remember the
> 13 wpm test being random code groups on a ham exam.  That is far more
> difficult than plain language to a ham new to Morse.

Code groups were never part of ham exams at any speed.


73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

>From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Todd]

USN still has the CTR rating and teaches Morse Intercept Ops at Corry 
Station, Pensacola, Florida.

http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=92864


Prior to being located at Corry,  Morse Intercept Ops (CTR's) were 
trained at Fort Devens, MA.


I attended Manual Morse Radio Op School at NTTC San Diego.
Most students at the time came from the SEAL community and/or Marine 
Recon BN's, with the exception

of a few of us Marines who were shipping over into the SIGINT/EW MOS's...

Todd KH2TJ
CT Marine

Walter Underwood wrote:

As far as I can tell, Morse is entirely a hobby now. Maritime radio stopped 
monitoring Morse on 12 July 1999. I did some searches and I don’t think the US 
military offers a Morse skill rating now.


   

On Mar 29, 2016, at 5:34 PM, lstavenhagen  wrote:

So... this may be too far OT and forgive me for being ignorant, but I'm
genuinely curious. Is Morse used at all anymore in any commercial or
military enterprises? Or is amateur radio "it" for CW these days? I honestly
don't know if we're the only ones left using it on planet Earth or not

LS
W5QD


 



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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[lstavenhagen]

I took 3 FCC code exams: the 5wpm for my novice in 1973, and years later, the
13wpm for the Advanced and the 20wpm for the Extra. But ironically, I think
the FCC removing the code requirement was a good thing for CW in amateur
radio. Now that people aren't forced to learn it and have to use it, and
potentially develop a bad taste in their mouths for it in the process,
they're more attracted to it as another activity they can pursue in the
hobby. Just like the digital modes and so forth. The FCC no longer practices
"mode discrimination" and amateurs are free to use whatever mode they like.

I've heard it said that CW usage has actually gone up since the CW
requirements were dropped, and I believe it. The lower end of 20 meters is
essentially unusable when a CW contest is going on, or at least it's good
thing I have rigs like my K's that can handle 800 S9+30db sigs every kc in
the band hi hi.

So to bring it back around to Elecraft, I should think the incentive to
continue to support strong CW capabilities in the K rigs will continue to be
there for quite a long time

73,
LS
W5QD



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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Bill Frantz]

In a desperate attempt to make this subject at least vaguely on 
topic, note that future CW use is important to the future 
requirements for ham radios. If new hams aren't interested in 
CW, then good support for CW will become less important, 
particularly as older ones leave the hobby.


There are a couple of things which give me hope for the 
continued use of CW:


CW is the easiest mode to use for DXCC. Between the large number 
of stations active on CW, and CW's ability to work in bad band 
conditions, I think it will continue to attract users. Digital 
might be a contender for bad conditions, but it seems to me the 
QSO rate is always slower for Digital vs. CW.


The number of licensees in the US continues to climb in all 
three license classes. Even if we assume that all the 
technicians are only interested in VHF/UHF FM for emergency 
services use, we still have growth in generals and extras. These 
people will be using HF for contesting, among a myriad of other 
uses. Many contests have incentives for CW in their scoring systems.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 3/29/16 at 5:34 PM, lstavenha...@hotmail.com (lstavenhagen) wrote:


So... this may be too far OT and forgive me for being ignorant, but I'm
genuinely curious. Is Morse used at all anymore in any commercial or
military enterprises? Or is amateur radio "it" for CW these days? I honestly
don't know if we're the only ones left using it on planet Earth or not


---
Bill Frantz| gets() remains as a monument | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | to C's continuing support of | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | buffer overruns. | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Walter Underwood]

I know about KSM, but that isn’t a commercial enterprise or even a nonprofit 
full-time job.

My dad volunteered as a blacksmith some weekends at the old Texas exhibit at 
the Fort Worth Zoo. But it wasn’t a job. He really enjoyed it.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Mar 29, 2016, at 6:44 PM, Phil Kane  wrote:
> 
> On 3/29/2016 5:49 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:
> 
>> As far as I can tell, Morse is entirely a hobby now. Maritime radio
>> stopped monitoring Morse on 12 July 1999. I did some searches and I
>> don’t think the US military offers a Morse skill rating now.
> 
> Manual Morse is still alive in the Maritime Services through Public
> Coast Station KSM, the former RCA Coast Station KPH,  with receivers in
> Point Reyes, CA and transmitters in Bolinas, CA.  It is owned by the
> National Park Service and operated by the Maritime Radio Historical
> Society with properly-licensed operators.  We operate on weekends, on
> genuine restored coast station equipment, and there are still several
> vessels that use Manual Morse for traffic.  We accept message traffic at
> no cost - we're funded by grants from the Park Service and member
> donations.  And we still keep "Silent Period" watch on 500 KC as in the
> "good old days".  We also operate a ham station on several HF bands  -
> at full legal power - licensed as K6KPH but using maritime calling and
> traffic procedure.   See:  www.radiomarine.org
> 
> The military still trains a small cadre of Morse intercept operators -
> now rated as Crypotologic Technicians - because "the others" still use
> Morse for various purposes and we need to know what they are up to.  It
> is not used for tactical or command communications. See:
> http://ve7sl.blogspot.com/2016/02/cw-lives.html
> 
> 
> 
> 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
> Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402
> T2-0208
> 
> From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
> Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Mike Morrow]

Ron wrote:

> In the 1950's the U.S. 2nd class commercial Radiotelegraph license exam
> required 20 wpm sending and receiving. Receiving was 5 character random
> groups that included all punctuation and most of the special characters you
> see above the numbers on a keyboard. After 6 months of sea duty as an
> assistant radio officer, one could apply for a First Class license that
> required the same but at 25 wpm. I don't recall how long we had to copy,
> just the elation LS experienced at passing, Hi!

Ron, this is what I recall from the FCC commercial radiotelegraph Morse exams:

Third Class and Second Class:
20 wpm plain language receive for five minutes, perfect copy required for 100 
consecutive characters (one minute).
20 wpm plain language send (straight key use mandatory) for up to five minutes, 
perfect sending required for 100 consecutive characters (one minute).
16 wpm random character groups receive for five minutes, perfect copy required 
for 80 consecutive characters (one minute).
16 wpm random character groups send (straight key use mandatory) required for 
up to five minutes, perfect sending required for 80 consecutive characters (one 
minute).

The test for First Class was as described above at 25 wpm plain language and 20 
wpm code groups.

Written exam elements 1, 2, and 5 were required for Third Class.
Written exam elements 1, 2, 5, and 6 were required for Second Class and First 
Class.  Element 6 required some short answer and schematic drawing.

Everyone generally took the exam for element 8 Ship Radar as well.

I passed the Second Class exam almost 40 years ago, but my old study books for 
the exam indicate that the tests listed above were in place even before WWII.  
AFAIK, the only change occurred in the early 1990s when the FCC began giving 
credit for all of the above if the candidate held an Amateur Extra license.  
That, of course, wasn't even remotely equivalent...I guess the FCC just got 
lazy.

I took several ham Morse exams at the FCC in the late 1960s and early 1970s.  
Contrary to some claims otherwise, I do not ever remember the 13 wpm test being 
random code groups on a ham exam.  That is far more difficult than plain 
language to a ham new to Morse.

A good practical capability to function at 25 wpm was sufficient for starting a 
merchant marine radio officer career.  Until it all disappeared on 12 July 
1999, the MF Maritime Morse band (410 to 535 kHz) was the most magical spot in 
the entire radio spectrum...especially at night!

I got solicited by the Radio Officer's Union in 1991...there weren't enough 
radio officers to man the US-flag merchant vessels that got re-activated after 
Desert Storm.

What I really regret is that during my US Navy days there was nothing so small 
and capable as the Elecraft K1.  I could have had a fine time *ashore* with a 
K1.

Mike / KK5F
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Phil Kane]

On 3/29/2016 5:49 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:

> As far as I can tell, Morse is entirely a hobby now. Maritime radio
> stopped monitoring Morse on 12 July 1999. I did some searches and I
> don’t think the US military offers a Morse skill rating now.

Manual Morse is still alive in the Maritime Services through Public
Coast Station KSM, the former RCA Coast Station KPH,  with receivers in
Point Reyes, CA and transmitters in Bolinas, CA.  It is owned by the
National Park Service and operated by the Maritime Radio Historical
Society with properly-licensed operators.  We operate on weekends, on
genuine restored coast station equipment, and there are still several
vessels that use Manual Morse for traffic.  We accept message traffic at
no cost - we're funded by grants from the Park Service and member
donations.  And we still keep "Silent Period" watch on 500 KC as in the
"good old days".  We also operate a ham station on several HF bands  -
at full legal power - licensed as K6KPH but using maritime calling and
traffic procedure.   See:  www.radiomarine.org

The military still trains a small cadre of Morse intercept operators -
now rated as Crypotologic Technicians - because "the others" still use
Morse for various purposes and we need to know what they are up to.  It
is not used for tactical or command communications. See:
http://ve7sl.blogspot.com/2016/02/cw-lives.html



73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402
T2-0208

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Walter Underwood]

As far as I can tell, Morse is entirely a hobby now. Maritime radio stopped 
monitoring Morse on 12 July 1999. I did some searches and I don’t think the US 
military offers a Morse skill rating now.

You can make a living blacksmithing, but not with Morse code.

This takes nothing away from Morse as a hobby. Or from blacksmithing — my 
father was an amateur blacksmith.

wunder
Walter Underwood
wun...@wunderwood.org
http://observer.wunderwood.org/  (my blog)


> On Mar 29, 2016, at 5:34 PM, lstavenhagen  wrote:
> 
> So... this may be too far OT and forgive me for being ignorant, but I'm
> genuinely curious. Is Morse used at all anymore in any commercial or
> military enterprises? Or is amateur radio "it" for CW these days? I honestly
> don't know if we're the only ones left using it on planet Earth or not
> 
> LS
> W5QD
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/OT-Decoding-high-speed-CW-tp7615612p7615703.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Kevin Stover]

I may be wrong and it wouldn't be the first time but I think the Navy 
still teaches pilots Morse code.


On 3/29/2016 7:34 PM, lstavenhagen wrote:

So... this may be too far OT and forgive me for being ignorant, but I'm
genuinely curious. Is Morse used at all anymore in any commercial or
military enterprises? Or is amateur radio "it" for CW these days? I honestly
don't know if we're the only ones left using it on planet Earth or not

LS
W5QD






--
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H
ARRL
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441


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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[lstavenhagen]

So... this may be too far OT and forgive me for being ignorant, but I'm
genuinely curious. Is Morse used at all anymore in any commercial or
military enterprises? Or is amateur radio "it" for CW these days? I honestly
don't know if we're the only ones left using it on planet Earth or not

LS
W5QD



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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Phil Kane]

On 3/29/2016 4:45 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> In the 1950's the U.S. 2nd class commercial Radiotelegraph license exam
> required 20 wpm sending and receiving. Receiving was 5 character random
> groups that included all punctuation and most of the special characters you
> see above the numbers on a keyboard. After 6 months of sea duty as an
> assistant radio officer, one could apply for a First Class license that
> required the same but at 25 wpm. I don't recall how long we had to copy,
> just the elation LS experienced at passing, Hi!

My memory is 16 WPM code groups and 20 WPM plain text for the Second
Class.  The one year at sea was for the endorsement permitting  the
person to be the sole operator on cargo ships.  The requirement to sit
for the First Class exam was one year or more experience handling Public
Correspondence (message traffic to and from commercial ship or shore
stations excluding most military experience).  Passenger ships required
two or more operators, one of whom had to hold a First Class license
acting as "Chief Operator".

The code requirements for the Second Class have been carried over for
the "combined" lifetime Radiotelegraph Operator License.  The FCC will
no longer issue  First Class Licenses because Manual Morse is no longer
required for safety and distress traffic in the Maritime Services now
that the satellite and SSB-based GMDSS is in operation and there is no
need for a "Chief Operator" on ships..

I finally got my Second Class before the "cut-off", one of the last 8 so
issued.  It gets renewed only once in 2018 and then it goes "lifetime"
losing the Second Class designation.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
T2-0208
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Peter Pauly]

I ordered a LP-Pan 2 and the requisite accessories. I also installed
MorseRunner and am attempting to improve my speed. Thanks everyone for your
help.

On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 7:45 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire <r...@cobi.biz> wrote:

> In the 1950's the U.S. 2nd class commercial Radiotelegraph license exam
> required 20 wpm sending and receiving. Receiving was 5 character random
> groups that included all punctuation and most of the special characters you
> see above the numbers on a keyboard. After 6 months of sea duty as an
> assistant radio officer, one could apply for a First Class license that
> required the same but at 25 wpm. I don't recall how long we had to copy,
> just the elation LS experienced at passing, Hi!
>
> In our work we had to have excellent character-by-character copy, usually
> pounding keys on a mill. Contesting is a bit like that except that in a
> contest one has a planned format and very short message as contrasted so,
> say, copying press (news) for half an hour at a time.
>
> I'm not surprised at the speeds one hears in contests. When rag-chewing,
> however, I seldom find stations running more than 20 wpm, often much less.
> And I often just "read the mail" in my head listening to CW rag chews while
> puttering around the shack.
>
> IMHO, the different uses for CW lend themselves to different learning
> techniques. I have met good, competent contest operators completely unable
> to have a QSO that is not a contest exchange. They simply cannot think
> conversationally at a key or paddle. On a keyboard they often revert to a
> brag tape and must QRT when it runs out. And of course, everyone seems to
> go
> through a bit of a learning curve to copy CW in their head.
>
> After all these years 99% of my operating is still CW. I joke that I spent
> so much time learning CW that I am determined to get as much value from the
> effort. (It's not entirely a joke, Hi!)
>
> 73 Ron AC7AC
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
> lstavenhagen
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 10:32 AM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW
>
> Excellent points, IMO. I took both types of code tests. For my novice in
> 1973 when I was 10 years old, it was the random groups at 5WPM format.
> IIRC,
> I achieved the 1-min-solid-copy requirement by some miraculously slim
> margin.
> It was something like 2 or 3 characters and I remember being extremely
> relieved and elated at the accomplishment.
>
> For the Extra, years later, it was when the content was a regular old QSO,
> so I had virtually completely solid copy of the whole thing; the written
> test was nearly my downfall in that case (I passed with like 71% or
> something).
>
> Finally, IIRC, licenses like the commercial radiotelegraph license had even
> more comprehensive requirements - something like 5 minutes of random groups
> at 20wpm, 5 minutes of plain language at 25wpm, or something like that,
> depending on what class of license you were going for. Pretty tough!
>
> So yes it seems to be well established that plain language is quite
> distinct
> from random letter/number groups with respect to copy speed. And it was
> tested accordingly, or at least in my opinion it was.
>
> Fortunately, now that CW isn't required at all has seemed to, ironically,
> started a revival in CW. The CW portions of the bands do seem to still be
> more sparse than the SSB portions, but they're still there
>
> 73,
> LS
> W5QD
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

In the 1950's the U.S. 2nd class commercial Radiotelegraph license exam
required 20 wpm sending and receiving. Receiving was 5 character random
groups that included all punctuation and most of the special characters you
see above the numbers on a keyboard. After 6 months of sea duty as an
assistant radio officer, one could apply for a First Class license that
required the same but at 25 wpm. I don't recall how long we had to copy,
just the elation LS experienced at passing, Hi!

In our work we had to have excellent character-by-character copy, usually
pounding keys on a mill. Contesting is a bit like that except that in a
contest one has a planned format and very short message as contrasted so,
say, copying press (news) for half an hour at a time. 

I'm not surprised at the speeds one hears in contests. When rag-chewing,
however, I seldom find stations running more than 20 wpm, often much less.
And I often just "read the mail" in my head listening to CW rag chews while
puttering around the shack. 

IMHO, the different uses for CW lend themselves to different learning
techniques. I have met good, competent contest operators completely unable
to have a QSO that is not a contest exchange. They simply cannot think
conversationally at a key or paddle. On a keyboard they often revert to a
brag tape and must QRT when it runs out. And of course, everyone seems to go
through a bit of a learning curve to copy CW in their head.   

After all these years 99% of my operating is still CW. I joke that I spent
so much time learning CW that I am determined to get as much value from the
effort. (It's not entirely a joke, Hi!)  

73 Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
lstavenhagen
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 10:32 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

Excellent points, IMO. I took both types of code tests. For my novice in
1973 when I was 10 years old, it was the random groups at 5WPM format. IIRC,
I achieved the 1-min-solid-copy requirement by some miraculously slim
margin.
It was something like 2 or 3 characters and I remember being extremely
relieved and elated at the accomplishment. 

For the Extra, years later, it was when the content was a regular old QSO,
so I had virtually completely solid copy of the whole thing; the written
test was nearly my downfall in that case (I passed with like 71% or
something). 

Finally, IIRC, licenses like the commercial radiotelegraph license had even
more comprehensive requirements - something like 5 minutes of random groups
at 20wpm, 5 minutes of plain language at 25wpm, or something like that,
depending on what class of license you were going for. Pretty tough! 

So yes it seems to be well established that plain language is quite distinct
from random letter/number groups with respect to copy speed. And it was
tested accordingly, or at least in my opinion it was. 

Fortunately, now that CW isn't required at all has seemed to, ironically,
started a revival in CW. The CW portions of the bands do seem to still be
more sparse than the SSB portions, but they're still there

73,
LS
W5QD


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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[lstavenhagen]

Excellent points, IMO. I took both types of code tests. For my novice in 1973
when I was 10 years old, it was the random groups at 5WPM format. IIRC, I
achieved the 1-min-solid-copy requirement by some miraculously slim margin.
It was something like 2 or 3 characters and I remember being extremely
relieved and elated at the accomplishment. 

For the Extra, years later, it was when the content was a regular old QSO,
so I had virtually completely solid copy of the whole thing; the written
test was nearly my downfall in that case (I passed with like 71% or
something). 

Finally, IIRC, licenses like the commercial radiotelegraph license had even
more comprehensive requirements - something like 5 minutes of random groups
at 20wpm, 5 minutes of plain language at 25wpm, or something like that,
depending on what class of license you were going for. Pretty tough! 

So yes it seems to be well established that plain language is quite distinct
from random letter/number groups with respect to copy speed. And it was
tested accordingly, or at least in my opinion it was. 

Fortunately, now that CW isn't required at all has seemed to, ironically,
started a revival in CW. The CW portions of the bands do seem to still be
more sparse than the SSB portions, but they're still there

73,
LS
W5QD



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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Edward R Cole]

LD,

That is why it was so hard to pass the CW tests back in the 1950's 
taking before the FCC because the test did not have any real 
words.  The entire 5 minute code test was five random character 
groups, not all of which were letters or numbers and you had to have 
one minute perfect copy to pass.  I never managed to pass at the FCC 
in Detroit with the unsmiling stern FCC employees that looked like 
they were FBI ready to haul you off to Cuba or somewhere? ;-)


So imagine my pleasure taking my 13wpm at the Anchorage FCC office in 
1982 with happy friendly faces and copying samples of an actual QSO 
with real words and only having to answer seven multiple choice 
questions about the test correctly - absolutely no comparison with 
the CW "inquisition" of the 1950's.


BTW I did get to the point that I recognized common words like "CQ", 
"de", "73", "name", "RST", "QTH", etc.  They became words in the CW 
"language".  Too bad CW isn't sent in Latin; I took two years of that 
in HS .
Only good that did me was understanding the priest at a Catholic Mass 
back in the days they still spoke in Latin.  Of course I can pick out 
a few words in Spanish and French and several other languages that 
have Latin base (like English) - .  Pretty hard to 
copy CW in Yupik Eskimo.


Good points about CW becoming a language.

73, Ed - KL7UW
dasvidaniya

---snip
That would explain why, for example, your copy speed will drop (sometimes
dramatically) when the content is blocks of random letter/number groups
instead of plain language, or if you're reading the mail on a QSO in another
language like Spanish or German (and you don't speak those languages).
---snip
73,
LS
W5QD



73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
dubus...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Barry]

Here's one more excellent resource:  http://lcwo.net/
The site was developed by Fabian, DJ1YFK, one of the 2 guys who broke the
200 WPM mark with RUFZ.

If anyone is interested and attending, I will be speaking about the IARU
High Speed Telegraphy World Championship at the ARRL Rocky Mountain Division
Convention in Keystone, CO, in mid May.

Barry W2UP





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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[lstavenhagen]

Just a quick point of clarification (since I did my graduate work in a
similar field). I would say it's more like a "pidgin" language in contesting
exchanges, yes, but in a regular QSO, CW is still basically just an encoding
system for the underlying language the QSO is in. 

The only difference is in the representation of the "items" of that
language: they are now represented by CW rather than the sounds made by the
human voice. Putting it another way, you're not having to relearn English
when you take up CW, but only a new representation for the "pieces" of it
(words and parts of words). 

That would explain why, for example, your copy speed will drop (sometimes
dramatically) when the content is blocks of random letter/number groups
instead of plain language, or if you're reading the mail on a QSO in another
language like Spanish or German (and you don't speak those languages). 

And (though by now you know where my comment is going hi hi) why your copy
speed can drop dramatically when it's 90% call signs like in a contest.
You're not totally at sea, since we have a definite and small set of
patterns to go by with calls and the format of contest exchanges (regarding
my 'pidgin' judgment above), but that's why contest QSO's kind of need their
own copy practice...

73,
LS
W5QD

Bill Frantz wrote
> LS is absolutely correct (below). When you get to 20+ WPM, CW is 
> no longer an encoding system. It is a language of its own and 
> should be approached like any foreign language. The big win for 
> contesting and DX is that the vocabulary is so small. For things 
> like 5NN, TU, CQ, DE, TEST, UP etc., I don't even think of the 
> letters. The CW sequence is a spoken word and understandable as such.





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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Bill Frantz]

All - I'm about to write a president's letter for our local club 
publication on learning CW, and this entire thread is a good 
source of ideas. Thank you.


Peter -

I learned 5 WPM in 1960 for my novice license, but never used 
it. I learned 5 WPM again in 2001 for my extra, but didn't start 
using it until 2013. TX5K is the first CW QSO in my log and 
W6SQQ is the 2nd QSO and first rag chew. My learning CW at age 
70+ is definitely an example of old dogs and new tricks.


Now I am mostly operating in contests and chasing DX with about 
the same abilities as you have. I can use a straight key up to 
about 18-20 WPM, but I haven't gotten the timing right for a 
paddle. Most of my sending is from K3 memories or my contest logger.


My survival strategies are:

  In contests I only search and pounce. I can hear the other 
op's call many times and get it right. I'm working on getting 
good enough to run.


  With my 100W and wire antennas, I get a lot of chances to 
listen to DX stations handle other callers. It is good practice 
to try to decode the call signs they're working. (It also helps 
locate the caller in the pileup.)


  I use the K3's decoder and display in the P3's SVGA. That 
keeps the decoded data from disappearing off the screen before I 
read it. (Note that the SVGA display can't be used if the 
computer is also reading the decoded data via the K3 utility or 
some other program.) The K3's decoding acts as a check on my 
head decoding.


  If the DX is only rarely identifying, I see if I can find him 
on the QRZ.COM DX spotting network. It is a lot easier to verify 
a call sent faster than you can read than it is to copy it.


LS is absolutely correct (below). When you get to 20+ WPM, CW is 
no longer an encoding system. It is a language of its own and 
should be approached like any foreign language. The big win for 
contesting and DX is that the vocabulary is so small. For things 
like 5NN, TU, CQ, DE, TEST, UP etc., I don't even think of the 
letters. The CW sequence is a spoken word and understandable as such.


I'll keep hanging in there and hope you do too.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 3/28/16 at 8:10 AM, lstavenha...@hotmail.com (lstavenhagen) wrote:


As for copying in one's head, I know I'm drifting slightly off topic, but
just a couple tips for free that helped me:
- the key to getting above about 25 wpm on plain language is to start
learning the CW for entire words or parts of words: "the", "and", and
segments like "tion", "ing", etc. Instead of discrete letters, learn what
entire words or frequent endings sound like. Then in a pinch you can decode
individual letters that you may have missed by not having to decode the
familiar-sounding ending or even guess from context what the entire word is.
- for call signs, which are basically just code groups, be familiar with the
patterns - 1-2 letter/number/2 or 3 letters, etc. That will help you store
those and limit the amount of brain power you have to devote to decoding a
call at high speed. Not infallible but it helps.

---
Bill Frantz| Ham radio contesting is a| Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | contact sport.   | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |  - Ken Widelitz K6LA / VY2TT | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Cady, Fred]

Yeah, but it is a real kick when the program sends your call to you which can 
happen if you are practicing with a dx call!


From: Elecraft <elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net> on behalf of Hisashi T 
Fujinaka <ht...@twofifty.com>
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 10:13 AM
To: lstavenhagen
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

Morserunner works under Wine on my Mac, or at least it used to. I quit
using it because it would suck me completely in and then several hours
would disappear. And none of those computer QSOs would QSL! :)
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Richard S. Leary]

Jim, Paul
Paul, Jim is correct. Practice, practice, practice, then sooner than not you
will be copying in your head.
Jim's ASA training and experience works for him. For me it was USAF CW
Intercept and over 7 years experience. I don't use skimmers or cw decoders.
My K3 has one, and to be honest, I use it very infrequently, mostly to check
on the other guys/gals speed when it gets up there. I may have to hear a
call more than once, at 35 or higher, but not often. It's usually the
QRM/QRN that gets you. Then there's the QSB. Ever copy "weak" sigs Jim? 
Do your practicing "On the Air", not by machine, if you can. W1AW code
practice is good, and there are others out there I believe as well. Start at
a speed you can copy fairly well, then work up from there. I wish you well,
and welcome to the world of CW.
Jim and I might even have to chat off list. Have to figure he was in Germany
also.
Take care and have fun.
73,
Rick, W7LKG

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim
Sheldon
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 05:44
To: Peter Pauly
Cc: Elecraft Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

Peter,
None of the decoders out there, including the better ones (internal to the
K3/K3S and the KX3) decode CW even close to accurately unless the conditions
are ideal and the sending operator is close to perfect in his/her sending so
the ultimate answer is "suck it up" and learn to decode it in your head.

If you rely on the decoders, you will have difficulty in actually learning
to copy in your head and you will get enough call signs wrong in your
contest logs that they could even be rejected due to too many "busted"
calls.

That being said, as for the decoders, I was a Morse Intercept Operator
during the first 6 years of my 20 year Army Security Agency career.  I had
the copying of Morse code drummed into my head 8 hours a day, but that was
copying mostly 5 letter or number coded groups on a typewriter. 
  It took a large amount of money to train us electronic spies, and the NSA
decided to design a decoder to replace us, figuring that a computer could do
a better job.  They spent several millions of dollars on this electronic
black box (back in the 60's) and discovered that the human brain was a much
better decoder than a machine could ever be.  Every little static burst
would disrupt the decoding and it would take a few characters to catch back
up.  Also, if the code wasn't being sent by automatic means (in those days
that was a punched paper tape) and the receiving conditions weren't very
close to perfect (almost never happens these days and even worse back then)
the decoder output gibberish.  
After a couple years of mostly abject failures and after spending millions
of dollars, they abandoned the project.

Wayne and others have done a marvelous job of computer coding, allowing the
firmware in Elecraft's radios (and other stand-alone devices) to decode CW,
but the above conditions apply to them as well as to NSA and NSA spent a
heck of a lot more money trying to achieve perfect copy than Elecraft had in
their coffers.  Bottom line, use it for occasional help, but work at
learning to read it in your head yourself.  It isn't as hard as most people
make it out to be and all it takes is practice.  That's the absolute bottom
line, it takes practice.  If you are willing to go the extra mile and put in
that practice, the rewards will outweigh the initial frustrations.

73 and good luck,
Jim Sheldon - W0EB
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Hisashi T Fujinaka]

Morserunner works under Wine on my Mac, or at least it used to. I quit
using it because it would suck me completely in and then several hours
would disappear. And none of those computer QSOs would QSL! :)

On Mon, 28 Mar 2016, lstavenhagen wrote:


Well, to take the other side for a moment, I promise I'm not a curmudgeon hi
hi. I'm a software engineer in my day job and am accustomed to embracing new
technologies when required; I have a lot of admiration for things like
MorseRunner and CW Skimmer & reversebeacon.net and so forth.

All that said, I did get my novice at age 10 when you only had 2 years and
that was it unless you upgraded, and CW and 75W input was all you were
allowed to use. So I started off pounding brass and somehow never went away
from it since.

So all that's just a qualification to take my comments with a grain of salt
- it's my fault that I never learnt to use a paddle very well or how to
shield my rigs from computer RFI, etc. not the technology.

But once I get setup at home with either a Windows box or a suitable VM on
my mac, I definitely _will_ start using MorseRunner. I definitely need some
sustained practice at 30wpm + that I don't get to have as much as I'd like
just S during contests

73,
LS
W5QD



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--
Hisashi T Fujinaka - ht...@twofifty.com
BSEE + BSChem + BAEnglish + MSCS + $2.50 = coffee
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[lstavenhagen]

Well, to take the other side for a moment, I promise I'm not a curmudgeon hi
hi. I'm a software engineer in my day job and am accustomed to embracing new
technologies when required; I have a lot of admiration for things like
MorseRunner and CW Skimmer & reversebeacon.net and so forth.

All that said, I did get my novice at age 10 when you only had 2 years and
that was it unless you upgraded, and CW and 75W input was all you were
allowed to use. So I started off pounding brass and somehow never went away
from it since. 

So all that's just a qualification to take my comments with a grain of salt
- it's my fault that I never learnt to use a paddle very well or how to
shield my rigs from computer RFI, etc. not the technology.

But once I get setup at home with either a Windows box or a suitable VM on
my mac, I definitely _will_ start using MorseRunner. I definitely need some
sustained practice at 30wpm + that I don't get to have as much as I'd like
just S during contests 

73,
LS
W5QD



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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Phil Wheeler]

Same here, LS. As I've gotten older my muscle 
coordination has deteriorated a tad, so ...; most 
seemed to result from an open heart surgery I had 
three years ago which also killed my kidneys 
(which came back after five weeks of dialysis -- 
whew!), making poor CW sending seem a minor price 
to pay).


Or maybe that's just a good excuse :-)

73, Phil W7OX

On 3/28/16 8:10 AM, lstavenhagen wrote:

Don't feel too bad, I kind of have the inverse problem: I can copy at a much
greater rate than I can send lol.

73,
LS
W5QD




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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Jim Brown]

On Mon,3/28/2016 5:43 AM, Jim Sheldon wrote:
None of the decoders out there, including the better ones (internal to 
the K3/K3S and the KX3) decode CW even close to accurately unless the 
conditions are ideal and the sending operator is close to perfect in 
his/her sending so the ultimate answer is "suck it up" and learn to 
decode it in your head. 


I agree. To paraphase the musician's gag -- "How do you get to Carnegie 
Hall? Practice, practice, practice."


The good news is that turning off your decoder and working a CW contest 
with your ears and brain can boost your copy speed by 5 WPM (or more). 
And I agree with recommendations that you spend some time with 
MorseRunner http://www.dxatlas.com/MorseRunner/ MorseRunner was written 
by VE3NEA, author of CW Skimmer and more than a dozen other very useful 
ham programs. MorseRunner and PileupRunner are free; some of the others 
are paid shareware.


And if your schedule and the availability of CW Academy classes permits 
(they tend to fill up in advance), by all means sign up.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[John Sager via Elecraft]

+1 from me.  I recently finished CWA Level 3 and with the 8 week class and lots 
and lots of practice moved from a comfort level of 20 wpm to comfortable head 
copy at 30 wpm.  Just be aware that because of demand for the classes and a 
shortage of instructors you may have to wait six months or more from signup 
until your classes begin.  It is well worth the wait if you want to improve 
your CW chops.  Highly recommended.  The instructors and classes are phenomenal!
73,John W7SAG 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad


On Monday, March 28, 2016, 9:05 AM, Brian Hunt  wrote:

Peter,
The CW Operators Club has a CW Academy has a course tailor made for you. Sign 
up for a level 2 or 3 class to increase your speed and your contesting skills. 
Check out http://www.cwops.org/cwacademy.html for details. 

73,
Brian, K0DTJ

> 
> Any suggestions (besides suck it up and learn to decode high speed in my
> head)?
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[lstavenhagen]

Don't feel too bad, I kind of have the inverse problem: I can copy at a much
greater rate than I can send lol. Also, I never learned to translate CW into
keyboard keystrokes, mainly because I just refuse to get a computer anywhere
near my rigs lol.  I prefer to just pound brass, so I think I'm doomed to
S in contests, even tho I've learned to copy calls and contest exchanges
at reasonably high speeds.

As for copying in one's head, I know I'm drifting slightly off topic, but
just a couple tips for free that helped me:
- the key to getting above about 25 wpm on plain language is to start
learning the CW for entire words or parts of words: "the", "and", and
segments like "tion", "ing", etc. Instead of discrete letters, learn what
entire words or frequent endings sound like. Then in a pinch you can decode
individual letters that you may have missed by not having to decode the
familiar-sounding ending or even guess from context what the entire word is.
- for call signs, which are basically just code groups, be familiar with the
patterns - 1-2 letter/number/2 or 3 letters, etc. That will help you store
those and limit the amount of brain power you have to devote to decoding a
call at high speed. Not infallible but it helps.

For learning words, W1AW code practice .mp3's on arrl.org are really good
for practicing this. For call signs, well, just listening during a hefty
contest is what I do.

Anyway, back to the regularly scheduled program,

73,
LS
W5QD



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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Brian Hunt]

Peter,
The CW Operators Club has a CW Academy has a course tailor made for you. Sign 
up for a level 2 or 3 class to increase your speed and your contesting skills. 
Check out http://www.cwops.org/cwacademy.html for details. 

73,
Brian, K0DTJ

> 
> Any suggestions (besides suck it up and learn to decode high speed in my
> head)?
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Daniel Brock / WB4RFQ]

+1 to what Fred Cady said.  I'm a fairly new CW op and just graduated from CW 
Academy level 3.  In that class, they teach you how to head copy high speed 
contest CW, primarily using Morse Runner and RufzXP, but also by live practice 
in the weekly CWT tests.  If you want some free, structured, hands on training, 
I can't recommend CW Academy highly enough.  http://www.cwops.org/cwacademy.html

db / WB4RFQ



On March 28, 2016 at 05:15:07, Peter Pauly (ppa...@gmail.com) wrote:

I became enamoured with N1MM+ after this weekend's contest and wanted to  
see if I can use it for other stuff like CW. I got the keying working with  
my K3S so that's no problem. The issue is I can't decode 30 WPM CW in my  
head. I need help.  

I've been using the K3 Util terminal for CW contests and that's worked out  
well. I wanted to see if I can use both N1MM+ and K3 Util and share the COM  
port with LP-Bridge, but apparently K3 Util doesn't work with LP-Bridge. I  
also tried using FLDigi but the results weren't too great. It doesn't  
decode most of the time.  

Any suggestions (besides suck it up and learn to decode high speed in my  
head)?  
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Cady, Fred]

Hi Peter,
Good for you!  N1NN+ is great and CW contesting is even better.
There are a couple of programs that will help you improve your copy for call 
signs and numbers.  These are Morse Runner and Rufz.
http://www.dxatlas.com/morserunner/
http://www.rufzxp.net/

Morse runner even simulates N1MM in a pileup and you can adjust the speed, 
pileup conditions etc.
Rufz sends one call at a time and if you get it right, ups the speed for the 
next one, wrong, slows down a notch.

Try to develop the following habits:
In Morse Runner Hit enter to start sending the call before you type the last 
letter of the call.
In Rufz when speeds get high, let the whole call go by before you type it it.

Use these a few minutes each day and you will be amazed how much better you 
will be.
73,
Fred KE7X

For all KE7X Elecraft books, see www.ke7x.com


From: Elecraft <elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net> on behalf of Peter Pauly 
<ppa...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 6:14 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

I became enamoured with N1MM+ after this weekend's contest and wanted to
see if I can use it for other stuff like CW. I got the keying working with
my K3S so that's no problem. The issue is I can't decode 30 WPM CW in my
head. I need help.

I've been using the K3 Util terminal for CW contests and that's worked out
well. I wanted to see if I can use both N1MM+ and K3 Util and share the COM
port with LP-Bridge, but apparently K3 Util doesn't work with LP-Bridge. I
also tried using FLDigi but the results weren't too great. It doesn't
decode most of the time.

Any suggestions (besides suck it up and learn to decode high speed in my
head)?
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Jim Sheldon]

Peter,
None of the decoders out there, including the better ones (internal to 
the K3/K3S and the KX3) decode CW even close to accurately unless the 
conditions are ideal and the sending operator is close to perfect in 
his/her sending so the ultimate answer is "suck it up" and learn to 
decode it in your head.


If you rely on the decoders, you will have difficulty in actually 
learning to copy in your head and you will get enough call signs wrong 
in your contest logs that they could even be rejected due to too many 
"busted" calls.


That being said, as for the decoders, I was a Morse Intercept Operator 
during the first 6 years of my 20 year Army Security Agency career.  I 
had the copying of Morse code drummed into my head 8 hours a day, but 
that was copying mostly 5 letter or number coded groups on a typewriter. 
 It took a large amount of money to train us electronic spies, and the 
NSA decided to design a decoder to replace us, figuring that a computer 
could do a better job.  They spent several millions of dollars on this 
electronic black box (back in the 60's) and discovered that the human 
brain was a much better decoder than a machine could ever be.  Every 
little static burst would disrupt the decoding and it would take a few 
characters to catch back up.  Also, if the code wasn't being sent by 
automatic means (in those days that was a punched paper tape) and the 
receiving conditions weren't very close to perfect (almost never happens 
these days and even worse back then) the decoder output gibberish.  
After a couple years of mostly abject failures and after spending 
millions of dollars, they abandoned the project.


Wayne and others have done a marvelous job of computer coding, allowing 
the firmware in Elecraft's radios (and other stand-alone devices) to 
decode CW, but the above conditions apply to them as well as to NSA and 
NSA spent a heck of a lot more money trying to achieve perfect copy than 
Elecraft had in their coffers.  Bottom line, use it for occasional help, 
but work at learning to read it in your head yourself.  It isn't as hard 
as most people make it out to be and all it takes is practice.  That's 
the absolute bottom line, it takes practice.  If you are willing to go 
the extra mile and put in that practice, the rewards will outweigh the 
initial frustrations.


73 and good luck,
Jim Sheldon - W0EB

-- Original Message --
From: "Peter Pauly" <ppa...@gmail.com>
To: "Elecraft Reflector" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: 3/28/2016 7:14:49 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

I became enamoured with N1MM+ after this weekend's contest and wanted 
to
see if I can use it for other stuff like CW. I got the keying working 
with
my K3S so that's no problem. The issue is I can't decode 30 WPM CW in 
my

head. I need help.

I've been using the K3 Util terminal for CW contests and that's worked 
out
well. I wanted to see if I can use both N1MM+ and K3 Util and share the 
COM
port with LP-Bridge, but apparently K3 Util doesn't work with 
LP-Bridge. I

also tried using FLDigi but the results weren't too great. It doesn't
decode most of the time.

Any suggestions (besides suck it up and learn to decode high speed in 
my

head)?
__
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[Elecraft] OT: Decoding high speed CW

[Peter Pauly]

I became enamoured with N1MM+ after this weekend's contest and wanted to
see if I can use it for other stuff like CW. I got the keying working with
my K3S so that's no problem. The issue is I can't decode 30 WPM CW in my
head. I need help.

I've been using the K3 Util terminal for CW contests and that's worked out
well. I wanted to see if I can use both N1MM+ and K3 Util and share the COM
port with LP-Bridge, but apparently K3 Util doesn't work with LP-Bridge. I
also tried using FLDigi but the results weren't too great. It doesn't
decode most of the time.

Any suggestions (besides suck it up and learn to decode high speed in my
head)?
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com