RE: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
A crimped connection will break too in the same way if the wire is allowed to flex where it leaves the crimp. That's why critical applications dealing with rather small wires subjected to lots of movement and constant vibration always employ strain reliefs, not matter how the wire is attached. Back in my days prototyping electronic equipment for the USAF, we were concerned about wicked solder up under the insulation only because if the wire did break it was hard to find. The break was hidden inside the insulation. We recommended crimping for many connections because: 1) Electrically, it was as good as solder *if* one used the proper tool and used it correctly. 2) It was cheaper because training an assembler to crimp properly was a lot faster than making them an expert at soldering. It was easy to justify a tool costing hundreds of dollars to do the crimping. 3) It was faster and avoided the danger of damage from burns and runaway solder while soldering a joint in tight quarters - especially hanging half upside down inside a cramped compartment in an aircraft fuselage. 3) In high current applications, not having solder in the connection eliminated the possibility of molten solder flowing were we didn't want it in case of a short circuit that overheated the connection (people have told me that's why electrical codes for homes and other buildings doesn't allow solder too). Many (perhaps most) Hams are willing to invest the time to learn to solder well and are happy to invest a little more time when needed rather than buy expensive crimp tools. But, for those who choose to crimp and spend the money on the right tool with the right dies and learn to use it correctly, they can save that time and end up with a joint that is just as robust and secure as soldering. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Brian, What you say is true, a soldered connection used in a high vibration application will fail at the point where the solder has wicked up into the (stranded) wire. This is an important consideration in aircraft and other mobile applications. In ham home station applications where the wire is not subjected to severe vibration, a soldered connection is often more reliable than a crimped connection. That is especially true if the crimping tool is not exactly the proper type for the connector in use. A good crimping tool is a rather expensive tool - it must be matched to the connector and the wire to be crimped. Inexpensive substitutes may work for a while, but will result in a connection that is more unreliable than a soldered connection. The *real* answer is it all depends 73, Don W3FPR Brian Lloyd wrote: On Nov 14, 2008, at 10:06 AM, Joe Spencer wrote: I have several Crimper tools but do not really trust crimped power connectors so...I solder all my PowerPoles connectors. It is easy to do...they work everytime and never a crimp problem. Crimp-only connections last longer than do crimp-and-solder connections and are just as low resistance. When you solder the crimped connection the solder wicks up the wire and creates fatigue point where the wire will fail first. Of course, that does presume you have the correct crimp tool and you are using the proper terminal for the size of wire. (This information comes from having wired aircraft.) Brian Lloyd Granite Bay Montessori School 9330 Sierra College Bl brian AT gbmontessori DOT com Roseville, CA 95661 +1.916.367.2131 (voice)+1.791.912.8170 (fax) PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
Unsolder the power pole from the rig and solder the power cable directly to the pcb, job done, no more problems. David G3UNA I have a love-hate relationship with the PowerPole: I love the convenience (e.g., Rigrunner DC manifold); but I hate that the connector does not lock 'n mate as compared to those power connectors manufactured by MOLEX and AMP. Locking the PowerPole requires some external means like a tie-wrap, or the special plastic bridge clip being sold by Anderson. Paul, W9AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
I have several Crimper tools but do not really trust crimped power connectors so...I solder all my PowerPoles connectors. It is easy to do...they work everytime and never a crimp problem. Joe KK5NA - Original Message - From: Paul Christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Rich [EMAIL PROTECTED]; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major I believe that if the PowerPole on the K3 was installed on a short length of flexible wire we would not be reading about this problem as it would not exist. That would make a connector change-out very easy should the PowerPole contacts become damaged.. A while back, I had shifted the K3 cabinet while listening to a QSO and the PowerPole disconnected from the lateral movement. It's mostly the lateral tension that creates the propensity for accidental disconnects. If I had moved the cabinet while transmitting at 100W, I suspect that I would need to have gone in and replaced the fused/welded pins. Arguably, K3 owners shouldn't be moving the rig while operating! I have a love-hate relationship with the PowerPole: I love the convenience (e.g., Rigrunner DC manifold); but I hate that the connector does not lock 'n mate as compared to those power connectors manufactured by MOLEX and AMP. Locking the PowerPole requires some external means like a tie-wrap, or the special plastic bridge clip being sold by Anderson. Ensuring a correct crimp is part of the solution, but not the whole solution. I have a shop drawer full of professional ratcheting crimpers and prior to the recent purchase of the West Mountain crimper, I thought I was doing a good job. But what was occurring with my existing crimper is that the contact tip was bending slightly out of alignment during the crimp process. The West Mountain crimper locks the contact tip while crimping, thereby ensuring the pin remains straight with the barrel after crimping. Moreover, the West Mountain crimper ensures a completely concentric crimp. Had I not tried it myself, I would not have believe there could be that much of a difference between it and my other ratcheting crimpers. Paul, W9AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
What does being a Liberal Arts Major have to do with ham radio? Are you implying that because you are a Liberal Arts Major, you are somehow less able to understand or comprehend than anyone else? There are many of us with degrees in the arts that are also hams. It's a hobby. You have already proven yourself by acquiring a license. Don't sell yourself short. Sorry if I misinterpreted this but, that's the impression I got after reading the subject line. Gary ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 08:56:31 -0700, Gary D Krause wrote: Are you implying that because you are a Liberal Arts Major, you are somehow less able to understand or comprehend than anyone else? There are many of us with degrees in the arts that are also hams. It's a hobby. You have already proven yourself by acquiring a license. Don't sell yourself short. YES. It's really a matter of putting in the time to STUDY and learn the technical side of the hobby. After all, that's what separates us from the CBers! The ARRL Handbook is carefully written to be accessible to folks without engineering education, but it DOES require study to learn it, just like it took study to get that Liberal Arts degree. I've also done a lot of tutorial writing with a similar focus, sharing what I've learned. As a non-technical elective in my EE program, I took courses in Music Theory, history, and writing. I've used all of them both in my work and for my pleasure. In the 44 years since I finished my BSEE, I've been studying and/or reading something almost every day. Everything from computers to photography to acoustics to radio propagation to economics to personal investing to running a business. That's life, and when we stop learning, it's time for someone to throw dirt on us. 73, Jim Brown K9YC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
On Nov 14, 2008, at 10:06 AM, Joe Spencer wrote: I have several Crimper tools but do not really trust crimped power connectors so...I solder all my PowerPoles connectors. It is easy to do...they work everytime and never a crimp problem. Crimp-only connections last longer than do crimp-and-solder connections and are just as low resistance. When you solder the crimped connection the solder wicks up the wire and creates fatigue point where the wire will fail first. Of course, that does presume you have the correct crimp tool and you are using the proper terminal for the size of wire. (This information comes from having wired aircraft.) Brian Lloyd Granite Bay Montessori School 9330 Sierra College Bl brian AT gbmontessori DOT com Roseville, CA 95661 +1.916.367.2131 (voice)+1.791.912.8170 (fax) PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
Brian, What you say is true, a soldered connection used in a high vibration application will fail at the point where the solder has wicked up into the (stranded) wire. This is an important consideration in aircraft and other mobile applications. In ham home station applications where the wire is not subjected to severe vibration, a soldered connection is often more reliable than a crimped connection. That is especially true if the crimping tool is not exactly the proper type for the connector in use. A good crimping tool is a rather expensive tool - it must be matched to the connector and the wire to be crimped. Inexpensive substitutes may work for a while, but will result in a connection that is more unreliable than a soldered connection. The *real* answer is it all depends 73, Don W3FPR Brian Lloyd wrote: On Nov 14, 2008, at 10:06 AM, Joe Spencer wrote: I have several Crimper tools but do not really trust crimped power connectors so...I solder all my PowerPoles connectors. It is easy to do...they work everytime and never a crimp problem. Crimp-only connections last longer than do crimp-and-solder connections and are just as low resistance. When you solder the crimped connection the solder wicks up the wire and creates fatigue point where the wire will fail first. Of course, that does presume you have the correct crimp tool and you are using the proper terminal for the size of wire. (This information comes from having wired aircraft.) Brian Lloyd Granite Bay Montessori School 9330 Sierra College Bl brian AT gbmontessori DOT com Roseville, CA 95661 +1.916.367.2131 (voice)+1.791.912.8170 (fax) PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
Ladies and Gents. I have been trying to follow the threads on IMD performance of the K3 and the S-Meter thread of the K3. Could someone explain (to a Liberal Arts Major - not an engineering type) what the issues are here and why they are issues with this radio? Maybe, I'm lost in all the hullabaloo. Alsowhy is one person calling the S-Meter and the power connector junk that cannot be fixed? Thank you for the education. Lee Buller - K0WA K3 SN 443 K2 SN 1056 In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine?___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
Lee,
Don't know about the connector issues (I suppose that might be a
matter of personal preference). The S-Meter issue has to do with fine
adjustments. Since the meter is a bar graph type, blocks are either
lit or not. If, for instance, you are attempting to see the difference
between 4.3 blocks and 4.4 blocks, they display the same (either 4 or 5
blocks, depending on software design). Apparently, this design issue is
also in the data given to a control computer. That is, instead of giving
a value (i.e., 4.321), it is just mimicking the bar graph (i.e., 4
blocks). So, if you're trying to make a comparative measurement
between similar signals, unless they happen to be on the edge of two
block values, they will look the same. While this is normal for this
type of display, it is a little unusual for the computer data stream.
That usually reflects raw data. Does that help? {'-)
Regards,
kurtt
Kurt Pawlikowski, AKA WB9FMC
The Pinrod Corporation
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(773) 284-9500
http://pinrod.com
Lee Buller wrote:
Ladies and Gents.
I have been trying to follow the threads on IMD performance of the K3
and the S-Meter thread of the K3. Could someone explain (to a Liberal
Arts Major - not an engineering type) what the issues are here and
why they are issues with this radio? Maybe, I'm lost in all the
hullabaloo.
Alsowhy is one person calling the S-Meter and the power connector
junk that cannot be fixed?
Thank you for the education.
Lee Buller - K0WA
K3 SN 443
K2 SN 1056
In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If
you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If
you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has
some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine?
___
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RE: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
Lee, Alsowhy is one person calling the S-Meter Because some people do not understand the difference between an amateur transceiver and a $10,000 piece laboratory test equipment. The K3's S-meter circuit is derived form the IF DSP and provides a very accurate scale in S-unit (5 dB) steps. It does not provide an analog voltage with infinite resolution. and the power connector junk that cannot be fixed? The power connector is an Anderson PowerPole and some people (unfairly) object to the use PowerPole connectors. In liberal arts terms, there are always those who expect a Ferrari or Maserati for the same price as a Chevrolet Cobalt. 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lee Buller Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:22 AM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major Ladies and Gents. I have been trying to follow the threads on IMD performance of the K3 and the S-Meter thread of the K3. Could someone explain (to a Liberal Arts Major - not an engineering type) what the issues are here and why they are issues with this radio? Maybe, I'm lost in all the hullabaloo. Alsowhy is one person calling the S-Meter and the power connector junk that cannot be fixed? Thank you for the education. Lee Buller - K0WA K3 SN 443 K2 SN 1056 In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine? ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
Lee Buller wrote: Alsowhy is one person calling the S-Meter and the power connector junk that cannot be fixed? Maybe I should explain my point. S-meter, too coars since it can only show a 6 dB change. It´s been reported on this reflector that it was impossible to rectify/change that, i e to get better resolution more data points has to be produced by the radio. So bottom line, an S-meter that coarse IMO is junk, sorry but it´s my opinion. 12V power connector, does not have a positive lock, i e can come loose if radio is moved. Again IMO this is junk. This probably could be fixed, i e modify it for another type connector. And yes the K3 has a few other issues also but as I did say before nothing in life is perfect, I still love my K3 and would not like to be without it. 73 Jim SM2EKM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
You mean the S-meter reads in S units (6db) how unique. Also the damn powerpole thing has been beat to death over numerous threads on this reflector. Read those and pray no one gets out their soapbox again. Matt KD8DAO http://blog.MattIsKichigai.com On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Jan Erik Holm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lee Buller wrote: Alsowhy is one person calling the S-Meter and the power connector junk that cannot be fixed? Maybe I should explain my point. S-meter, too coars since it can only show a 6 dB change. It´s been reported on this reflector that it was impossible to rectify/change that, i e to get better resolution more data points has to be produced by the radio. So bottom line, an S-meter that coarse IMO is junk, sorry but it´s my opinion. 12V power connector, does not have a positive lock, i e can come loose if radio is moved. Again IMO this is junk. This probably could be fixed, i e modify it for another type connector. And yes the K3 has a few other issues also but as I did say before nothing in life is perfect, I still love my K3 and would not like to be without it. 73 Jim SM2EKM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
a very accurate scale in S-unit (5 dB) steps. I assume you mean 6dB steps: Page 156 http://www.iaru-r1.org/VHF_Handbook_V5_11.pdf Page 142 http://www.iaru-r1.org/HFM%20Handbook%20V6.pdf ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
In a recent message, Jan Erik Holm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote ... 12V power connector, does not have a positive lock, i e can come loose if radio is moved. Again IMO this is junk. Have you assembled the connector correctly, Jim? Both my K3 and my XV144 Anderson power connectors go in with a definite 'click' and neither of them have come apart unintentionally even when the equipment is moved. Being digital, the S-meter has incremental steps of one S-point which is accurate enough for most practical purposes. In any case, everyone is 599 or 59 in contests ;-) 73 -- David G4DMP Leeds, England, UK -- ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
Lee Buller wrote: Alsowhy is one person calling the S-Meter and the power connector junk that cannot be fixed? The s-meter is only useful to give a rough reading of signal strength. It is good enough for RST reports. However, the radio includes a built-in 'dBV' (this is in quotes for those who will say that it should be called something else) function which can provide an accurate measurement of relative signal strength when necessary. Some people hate Powerpole connectors, others love them. I am of the latter persuasion. They need to be assembled carefully and then in my opinion they work well and are extremely convenient. But then, I like PL259/SO239's too. -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
Lee, It seems that some owners are expecting an analog signal from a digital source or expect their receiver to be a precision measurement device. The digital steps derived to drive the S-meter correlate to the marks on the S-meter in whole S units, it does not indicate anything in between. It is good enough for most displays and radio control programs since they usually display the S-meter in steps of whole S-units anyway. Those that I have looked at do not indicate fractions of an S-unit, so I believe the S-meter resolution is adequate for most purposes. There is an alternative for those who want better resolution, and that is the AFV and dBV alternate displays that can be dialed up in the VFOB area when CONFIG is set for TECH mode. The resolution of AFV is 1 mVp-p and is the value of the receiver output. dBV is relative to the receiver output level when the dBV scale was first entered and is in 1 dB increments - that is just about as good as any analog meter commonly available - yes more precision is available in some meters, but they cost big bucks. 73, Don W3FPR Lee Buller wrote: Ladies and Gents. I have been trying to follow the threads on IMD performance of the K3 and the S-Meter thread of the K3. Could someone explain (to a Liberal Arts Major - not an engineering type) what the issues are here and why they are issues with this radio? Maybe, I'm lost in all the hullabaloo. Alsowhy is one person calling the S-Meter and the power connector junk that cannot be fixed? Thank you for the education. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
Hi PowerPoles can be locked together with a small 'U shaped piece of stiff wire run through the holes between the red and black blocks after plugging in the connectors. I do this on my solar panel setup to keep the connectors in place even if the wires get pulled. Thanks Don Brown KD5NDB K3 S/N 0575 -- From: David Pratt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:08 AM To: Jan Erik Holm [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major In a recent message, Jan Erik Holm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote ... 12V power connector, does not have a positive lock, i e can come loose if radio is moved. Again IMO this is junk. Have you assembled the connector correctly, Jim? Both my K3 and my XV144 Anderson power connectors go in with a definite 'click' and neither of them have come apart unintentionally even when the equipment is moved. Being digital, the S-meter has incremental steps of one S-point which is accurate enough for most practical purposes. In any case, everyone is 599 or 59 in contests ;-) 73 -- David G4DMP Leeds, England, UK -- ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
Joe has again hit the nail on the head. The K3 is a very high quality transceiver. It is not test equipment. You want test equipment, you buy test equipment. I'm an EE and I've been a ham for 53 years. I find nearly all elements of the K3 user interface quite satisfactory, including the S-meter. I am, however, looking for additional control of the 2nd RX, and I expect to see that over the next few months. I am also a huge fan of Anderson Power Pole connectors -- beginning in 2004 when I bought my first K2, I've gradually rewired all my equipment that runs on low voltage DC to use them. Everything from laptops, talkies, Ethernet routers, telephones, etc. and all my radio gear. They are reasonably priced (at least in North America), easy to wire, and quite reliable. 73, Jim K9YC On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 10:39:00 -0500, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: Alsowhy is one person calling the S-Meter Because some people do not understand the difference between an amateur transceiver and a $10,000 piece laboratory test equipment. The K3's S-meter circuit is derived form the IF DSP and provides a very accurate scale in S-unit (5 dB) steps. It does not provide an analog voltage with infinite resolution. and the power connector junk that cannot be fixed? The power connector is an Anderson PowerPole and some people (unfairly) object to the use PowerPole connectors. In liberal arts terms, there are always those who expect a Ferrari or Maserati for the same price as a Chevrolet Cobalt. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
The K3 keeps the S-meter data in 1 decibel increments, and it's on the
enhancement list to be made available through the K3 RS232 command set. I've
done some early testing on this and the virtual analog meter on the PC display
mimics a true analog S-meter convincingly.
Five DB steps that can be on or off with a flicker fall way short for me as
well, a convincing analog meter is 50% of the listening experience at this QTH.
[Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
Kurt Pawlikowski kurtt at pinrod.com
Thu Nov 13 09:54:28 EST 2008
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Lee,
Don't know about the connector issues (I suppose that might be a
matter of personal preference). The S-Meter issue has to do with fine
adjustments. Since the meter is a bar graph type, blocks are either
lit or not. If, for instance, you are attempting to see the difference
between 4.3 blocks and 4.4 blocks, they display the same (either 4 or 5
blocks, depending on software design). Apparently, this design issue is
also in the data given to a control computer. That is, instead of giving
a value (i.e., 4.321), it is just mimicking the bar graph (i.e., 4
blocks). So, if you're trying to make a comparative measurement
between similar signals, unless they happen to be on the edge of two
block values, they will look the same. While this is normal for this
type of display, it is a little unusual for the computer data stream.
That usually reflects raw data. Does that help? {'-)
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Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
Five DB steps that can be on or off with a flicker fall way short for me as well, a convincing analog meter is 50% of the listening experience at this QTH. I'm trying to figure out how to hear an S_Meter, but I suppose we all listen in different ways. I'm really surprised, after happily monitoring this list in stealth mode for some time while waiting for my K3 to arrive, how much it has begun to sound from time to time like every other vendor/product list, all of which I finally retired from after tiring of these sorts of discussions. Or perhaps I just haven't yet realized how many serious problems my new K3 has :) (returning to stealth mode) Grant/NQ5T UR RST 5 8.39974 9 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
I assume you mean 6dB steps: In the case of the K3 it is 5 dB steps. If the S-meter is calibrated according to the manual S9 = 50 uV and S2 or S3 = 1 uV. For S2 = 1 uV we have 20log(1/50)/7 or 4.85 dB/unit. For S3 = 1uV we get 20log(1/50)/6 or 5.66 dB/unit. A very repeatable 5 dB per unit is fine for me considering that most of the even high end other transceivers have S-units that vary from 2 to 8 dB depending on where one starts. The K3 is also among the very few that can display an absolute S-meter (true signal strength) reading as the preamp and attenuator are used in various combinations. 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:53 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major a very accurate scale in S-unit (5 dB) steps. I assume you mean 6dB steps: Page 156 http://www.iaru-r1.org/VHF_Handbook_V5_11.pdf Page 142 http://www.iaru-r1.org/HFM%20Handbook%20V6.pdf ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
I'm trying to figure out how to hear an S_Meter, but I suppose we all listen in different ways. It's true Grant, the received signal has a rythm of amplitude that can be seen on the S-meter, but that effect is greatly reduced by the AGC if you are only listening for a change in the level of the AF. The effect is also reduced greatly by displaying 5 db chunk bars only as on/off/flicker values. The fading on SSB and CW modes can tell you a lot about what the band is doing. To me, this is an issue that has merit, as some others have suggested. You will really enjoy your K3, and having been an Orion pioneer it will be an interesting comparison. [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major Grant Youngman nq5t at tx.rr.com Thu Nov 13 12:27:51 EST 2008 Previous message: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major Next message: [Elecraft] N2CQ QRP Contest Calendar: Nov 13 - Dec 14, 2008 Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Five DB steps that can be on or off with a flicker fall way short for me as well, a convincing analog meter is 50% of the listening experience at this QTH. I'm trying to figure out how to hear an S_Meter, but I suppose we all listen in different ways. I'm really surprised, after happily monitoring this list in stealth mode for some time while waiting for my K3 to arrive, how much it has begun to sound from time to time like every other vendor/product list, all of which I finally retired from after tiring of these sorts of discussions. Or perhaps I just haven't yet realized how many serious problems my new K3 has :) (returning to stealth mode) Grant/NQ5T UR RST 5 8.39974 9 Previous message: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
Thanks David, yes I believe so, I do get the click. It´s no big issue, I can live with it however IMO as stated before this is a bad type of connector. 73 Jim SM2EKM David Pratt wrote: In a recent message, Jan Erik Holm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote ... 12V power connector, does not have a positive lock, i e can come loose if radio is moved. Again IMO this is junk. Have you assembled the connector correctly, Jim? Both my K3 and my XV144 Anderson power connectors go in with a definite 'click' and neither of them have come apart unintentionally even when the equipment is moved. Being digital, the S-meter has incremental steps of one S-point which is accurate enough for most practical purposes. In any case, everyone is 599 or 59 in contests ;-) 73 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
The factory installed PowerPole connector was misaligned on my K3. After trying to make sure the connectors I made were correct, several times, I discovered that the “flat” (with a small dimple) connectors were to far back on the heavy piece of wire they are soldered to. This prevents them from extending all the way out to the proper position as required by the mating PowerPole connector. Thus when connected the little humps had nor slide over each other and were not fully engaged. I heated up each of these two factory installed connectors and slid them outward slightly – making sure that they are PERFECTLY even with each other. This took several attempts. Once I had gotten perfect alignment with the PowerPole connector installed in the K3 I achieved a good connection. It now takes about 3-5 pounds of force to pull them apart. Since the connector in the K3 is mounted on heavy wire if they are not soldered in the correct position they will not fit in the connector correctly. AND since this wire has a 90 degree bend at the back, it can keep the connector case from going all the way back and preventing proper engagement of the mating connector. The connector on the flexible wire is not a problem as there is give between the two wires and that can allow the connectors to be properly seated in the case for proper alignment and connection with the mating connector. I believe that if the PowerPole on the K3 was installed on a short length of flexible wire we would not be reading about this problem as it would not exist. Either Elecraft should test EVERY connector or mount the connector on a short length or wire. Rich, KE0X Don Brown-4 wrote: Hi PowerPoles can be locked together with a small 'U shaped piece of stiff wire run through the holes between the red and black blocks after plugging in the connectors. I do this on my solar panel setup to keep the connectors in place even if the wires get pulled. Thanks Don Brown KD5NDB -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Questions-from-a-Liberal-Arts-Major-tp1494099p1495455.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
Hi Rich, I've forwarded your comments to our test techs to make sure they look for this on each RF board as they test and align it. 73, Eric WA6HHQ Rich wrote: The factory installed PowerPole connector was misaligned on my K3. After trying to make sure the connectors I made were correct, several times, I discovered that the “flat” (with a small dimple) connectors were to far back on the heavy piece of wire they are soldered to. This prevents them from extending all the way out to the proper position as required by the mating PowerPole connector. Thus when connected the little humps had nor slide over each other and were not fully engaged. I heated up each of these two factory installed connectors and slid them outward slightly – making sure that they are PERFECTLY even with each other. This took several attempts. Once I had gotten perfect alignment with the PowerPole connector installed in the K3 I achieved a good connection. It now takes about 3-5 pounds of force to pull them apart. Since the connector in the K3 is mounted on heavy wire if they are not soldered in the correct position they will not fit in the connector correctly. AND since this wire has a 90 degree bend at the back, it can keep the connector case from going all the way back and preventing proper engagement of the mating connector. The connector on the flexible wire is not a problem as there is give between the two wires and that can allow the connectors to be properly seated in the case for proper alignment and connection with the mating connector. I believe that if the PowerPole on the K3 was installed on a short length of flexible wire we would not be reading about this problem as it would not exist. Either Elecraft should test EVERY connector or mount the connector on a short length or wire. Rich, KE0X ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
I believe that if the PowerPole on the K3 was installed on a short length of flexible wire we would not be reading about this problem as it would not exist. That would make a connector change-out very easy should the PowerPole contacts become damaged.. A while back, I had shifted the K3 cabinet while listening to a QSO and the PowerPole disconnected from the lateral movement. It's mostly the lateral tension that creates the propensity for accidental disconnects. If I had moved the cabinet while transmitting at 100W, I suspect that I would need to have gone in and replaced the fused/welded pins. Arguably, K3 owners shouldn't be moving the rig while operating! I have a love-hate relationship with the PowerPole: I love the convenience (e.g., Rigrunner DC manifold); but I hate that the connector does not lock 'n mate as compared to those power connectors manufactured by MOLEX and AMP. Locking the PowerPole requires some external means like a tie-wrap, or the special plastic bridge clip being sold by Anderson. Ensuring a correct crimp is part of the solution, but not the whole solution. I have a shop drawer full of professional ratcheting crimpers and prior to the recent purchase of the West Mountain crimper, I thought I was doing a good job. But what was occurring with my existing crimper is that the contact tip was bending slightly out of alignment during the crimp process. The West Mountain crimper locks the contact tip while crimping, thereby ensuring the pin remains straight with the barrel after crimping. Moreover, the West Mountain crimper ensures a completely concentric crimp. Had I not tried it myself, I would not have believe there could be that much of a difference between it and my other ratcheting crimpers. Paul, W9AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
The digital steps derived to drive the S-meter correlate to the marks on the S-meter in whole S units, it does not indicate anything in between. It is good enough for most displays and radio control programs since they usually display the S-meter in steps of whole S-units anyway. Those that I have looked at do not indicate fractions of an S-unit, so I believe the S-meter resolution is adequate for most purposes. Right on, Don. Lemme see, when was the last time somebody told me my signal was S6.3 on their meternope, never! S9+21.8? Never! 8-) Ken ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
