Re: [Elecraft] Straight key first? (was: Re: K3 in the Media)
* On 2011 28 Jun 23:20 -0500, Buddy Brannan wrote: Completely agree. To this day, I still can't send properly with an iambic paddle and tend to use them as though they were single lever paddles. Even though I've never owned such a beast. Really, really want another bug, though. In late '09 I read the World of Ideas column in CQ by the late Dave Ingram, K4TWJ, wherein he introduced the W6AME Bushwhacker single lever paddle kit. His statement that many ops find single lever keying easier and more accurate than iambic intrigued me so I ordered one and received it on a snowy Christmas Eve just before our Christmas blizzard of '09 so I had plenty of time to play with it. Admittedly, operating one is deceptively simple yet takes a much different technique than iambic paddles. I find my accuracy has improved but still has a long way to go! http://www.americanmorse.com/bushwhacker.htm It is a well-made unit, very precise, and offers a wide range of adjustment. I've had several straight keys from various no-name cheapies to a J-38. Last August I picked up a tarnished key on a black krinkle finish base. It looked neat and felt good so I paid the asking price and found out later that it is a Nye Speed-X key. I cleaned the nickel parts with NEVR-DULL and it looks great on the desk and is much easier to use than any previous key. I bought the matching base from Morse Express which makes for a nice key that is not too high off the desk top. 73, de Nate N0NB -- The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true. Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Straight key first? (was: Re: K3 in the Media)
At 06:06 PM 6/28/2011 -0700, you wrote: The hardest CW to copy (for me anyway) has insufficient spacing between letters or words. This is exactly what a keyer does NOT help you with! The operator has to learn to recognize what good CW sounds like. Does sending with a straight key help with that? Maybe, but I doubt it. Many of you have heard old-timers with bugs sending with the banana-boat swing (dits way too fast for the dahs) or the Lake Erie swing (think about sending from a rolling ship). These are generally considered 'bad CW', but they aren't difficult to copy. The techniques of sending with an iambic paddle, a bug and a straight key are very different. I don't think learning one helps you with the others. Hi I worked in Commercial CW communications at the tail-end of the era in the 50's and early 60's. At one point while in the Arctic we communicated with 2 stations in the south, Winnipeg and Ottawa. Between the 2 stations there would be 8 to 10 different operators. I could tell immediately who was on shift by the sound of the 'fist'. Almost all of the operators used a bug (each carried his in it's own case ... like professional pool players). A new man was immediately recognized ... and the usual response was to speed up hi. Personal communications was frowned upon. However on a night shift there would be a lot of banter ... (you would think we had QSK hi) You had to be careful though .. in those days we actually had Radio Monitoring Stations. It was possible to actually get a ticket for illegal traffic hi hi. The person giving the citation had to be a CW op as well and vy mean. I agree that certain kinds of swing with faster dots than dashes makes copying easier. Perfect CW ... as generated by a computer I find becomes harder to copy once the speed goes up beyond 20 WPM. I like an electronic keyer setup to simulate a bug (old habits I guess) with electronic dits and manual dashes. I can use a squeeze type setup ... but find I have to shift to the bug style in order to be more comfortable and to get into the 'swing' of things hi. As far as the straight key I don't know of anyone who continued to use one once they moved out of Radio School. Strange thing though in Radio School all CW reception was recorded with pencil and paper. The really good ops made the transition to the typewriter ... since all messages must be as received ... es not paraphrased hi hi. As mentioned my experience is at the tail end of the era. Some of the old hands (really old hands) talked about how they were sometime forbidden to use a bug as communications was considered to be more accurate with a straight key. Most of these experiences were railroad telegraphers and marine operators . The transmitter we used in the Arctic was a 300 watt Collins with full AM modulation. It was strictly forbidden to use AM. Although I recall using it on a few occasions hi hi. (where did the microphone come from ?) Sorry for rambling on. I was very fortunate to have learned CW and how to type (in a girls class in High School). I don't know one CW op with Alzheimers hi hi It is great for the grey matter. 73 Jim, VE3CI __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Straight key first? (was: Re: K3 in the Media)
The hardest CW to copy (for me anyway) has insufficient spacing between letters or words. This is exactly what a keyer does NOT help you with! The operator has to learn to recognize what good CW sounds like. Does sending with a straight key help with that? Maybe, but I doubt it. Many of you have heard old-timers with bugs sending with the banana-boat swing (dits way too fast for the dahs) or the Lake Erie swing (think about sending from a rolling ship). These are generally considered 'bad CW', but they aren't difficult to copy. The techniques of sending with an iambic paddle, a bug and a straight key are very different. I don't think learning one helps you with the others. On 6/28/2011 4:07 PM, Al Gulseth wrote: Al, The issue isn't nostalgia - it's technique and timing. Paddles cover a multitude of sins: as long as you're hitting the paddles somewere close to the right point you'll get nice even CW. With a straight key any technique or timing issues are immediately obvious. The old timer WWII radio ops that I've known (in particular my dad) always stressed mastering the straight key before ever trying to use paddles. And if you've heard those OTs on the air, a large percentage of them illustrate the wisdom of learning (and mastering) the straight key first. 73, Al On Tue June 28 2011 5:31:10 pm VE3GAM Allen McRorie wrote: after having operated both a straight key and a paddle, I'm not really sure that the two are comparable I don't think being able to send using a straight key does anything to help you send better than using a paddle, but using a paddle is much easier to me than using a straight key and if you take nostalgia out of it, I would think starting with a paddle is what I would recommend to anyone just starting out. I just don't understand the fascination with straight keys, they are hard to use and tiring if you don't use them correctly anyway my .02 cents worth al ve3gam -- Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Straight key first? (was: Re: K3 in the Media)
There is a product called the CW Machine invented by Ulrich Steinberg N2DE/DJ8GO and marketed by Begali which has vast capabilities beyond a standard keyer. One of the things it can do is analyze one's keying and provide feedback regarding spacing, etc. It appears to be a fabulous investment for the dedicated CW OP who is serious about mastering the art. Works with paddles, straight keys, bugs, 'swipers. Price seems reasonable by today's standards. Number of reviews at eHam are sufficiently high to lend creedance to the 5/5 rating it has achieved. More info available at www.i2rtf.com for interested listers. I have never seen one, much less operated one, but I was sufficiently intrigued by its potential that I purchased one. I take delivery on Thursday afternoon. The fellow who invented it is coming over to my shack to hook it up and get me started. I operate 100% CW. Paddles are wonderful--everyone sounds the same. And everyone makes the same mistakes. Straight keys are nostalgic, perhaps, but still worthy of learning to operate properly if no reason other than that 'they exist and they are part of our heritage'. Sideswipers are the least used and least understood of the keys but nonetheless worthy of the effort required to learn for the same reasons as previously mentioned. The bug is my favorite key because it's really difficult to do it correctly. I'm still trying to improve my dit to dah transitions after 51 years. I am hopeful that the CW Machine will help me achieve my personal goal of achieving the best 'fist' I can with each of the tools of the trade. That's the nice thing about ham radio -- so very many little niches to explore. 73, Stan WB2LQF KX1 #2411K1#2994K2# 6980K3#5244 K9 #1 (Cocoa the Chihuahua) Everything is QRP, even the dog. On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 9:06 PM, Vic K2VCO wrote: The hardest CW to copy (for me anyway) has insufficient spacing between letters or words. This is exactly what a keyer does NOT help you with! The operator has to learn to recognize what good CW sounds like. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Straight key first? (was: Re: K3 in the Media)
The banana boat swing is a combination of pure laziness and the limitations of many Vibroplex bugs. Vibroplex made many, many bugs with thick springs that prevent their dit rates being slowed below 35 wpm or so. So QRSing below that speed (most marine communications occurred between 15 and 20 wpm with some operators I knew working a 10 wpm or less) meant machine-gun dits with very long dahs and spaces. I had a buddy who came ashore and worked at KPH on the California coast for years with one of those bugs. To tame it (he as a stickler for good CW) he hung a huge cable clamp on the pendulum so he could easily run at 15 to 20 wpm - what nearly everyone used in that service. I have that bug now. His widow gave it to me when he became an SK. And I have the cable clamp. It works great, but I can't understand why his right arm didn't look like Popeye's after using it for years, Hi! I like to practice on my bug with a computer decoder that is very, very finicky about spacing and element lengths. CW GET is one such program that really hates to decode anything but keyboard sending. My goal is to make it decode my bug fist reliably. I used an iambic keyer for years and it was sweet, but it completely ruined my fist on a bug so I put the keyer away. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- The hardest CW to copy (for me anyway) has insufficient spacing between letters or words. This is exactly what a keyer does NOT help you with! The operator has to learn to recognize what good CW sounds like. Does sending with a straight key help with that? Maybe, but I doubt it. Many of you have heard old-timers with bugs sending with the banana-boat swing (dits way too fast for the dahs) or the Lake Erie swing (think about sending from a rolling ship). These are generally considered 'bad CW', but they aren't difficult to copy. The techniques of sending with an iambic paddle, a bug and a straight key are very different. I don't think learning one helps you with the others. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Straight key first? (was: Re: K3 in the Media)
The decoder on the K3 can be used to monitor one's sending. Getting the word spaces correct can be checked with it. However, thinking, copying, and sending simultaneously with the slight delay inherent in the decoder is like juggling five balls at once. It can be done but it makes life more interesting :) Kevin. KD5ONS On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 19:54:25 -0700, Ron D'Eau Claire r...@cobi.biz wrote: ... I like to practice on my bug with a computer decoder that is very, very finicky about spacing and element lengths. CW GET is one such program that really hates to decode anything but keyboard sending. My goal is to make it decode my bug fist reliably. ... Ron AC7AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Straight key first? (was: Re: K3 in the Media)
On Jun 28, 2011, at 9:06 PM, Vic K2VCO wrote: The hardest CW to copy (for me anyway) has insufficient spacing between letters or words. This is exactly what a keyer does NOT help you with! The operator has to learn to recognize what good CW sounds like. Does sending with a straight key help with that? Maybe, but I doubt it. Nah, not with that. I think sending with a straight key does help with getting a feel for how characters are structured, though. Not a bad thing, but like others here, I'd much rather have interested cw ops than insisting on straight keys all the way. On the other hand (am I an octopus?), an op who handles a straight key well is a real joy to work. Ditto for a well-handled bug. I'd love to be able to use both well myself; straight key fist is a bit rusty, not what it once was, but it's coming back, and I'm having a lot of fun with it. I expect I'm more critical of my sending than some might be of it, though. Many of you have heard old-timers with bugs sending with the banana-boat swing (dits way too fast for the dahs) or the Lake Erie swing (think about sending from a rolling ship). These are generally considered 'bad CW', but they aren't difficult to copy. Unless the spacing is off, then, well, all bets are off. I don't mind some swing, it adds character. The techniques of sending with an iambic paddle, a bug and a straight key are very different. I don't think learning one helps you with the others. Completely agree. To this day, I still can't send properly with an iambic paddle and tend to use them as though they were single lever paddles. Even though I've never owned such a beast. Really, really want another bug, though. But getting back to the straight key for a second, probably the worst code I've ever heard came from a straight key. Unfortunately, my friend Dave, N5RUL, had to suffer through that as his first cw contact. Were I not there to back him up on copy, and I really struggled with that myself, he'd have been completely lost and probably discouraged. The guy's dits and dahs were almost nearly the same length! Strange but true. In that case, I don't think a straight key helped him much. -- Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
