Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
I was a WRTC 2014 volunteer responsible for overseeing 4 different stations. Of the 8 radios at these stations, 6 were K3s. Before the contest started, we did have a significant issue with phase noise interference from one of the K3s on 15M when that station was beaming toward the adjacent station (also receiving on a K3). The interference made 15M unusable at the adjacent station. When we tested with the non-K3 from the same location with the same beam heading, the phase noise was not a significant problem. If we reduced the K3 output to 30 watts, there was no problem. Fortunately, we were able to change out the original K3 with another K3 and that significantly reduced the problem. I have used my K3 at a 160M multi-op station and recognzie how important it is to properly set up the AGC parameters to allow two radios to be on the same band. Since we were able to resolve the problem to the competitors satisfaction, I didn't probe any further into the setting of the K3s. Gerry, W1GD -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/WRTC-2014-Congratulations-Elecraft-tp7591534p7591723.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
On 7/29/2014 5:15 AM, w1gd via Elecraft wrote: When we tested with the non-K3 from the same location with the same beam heading, the phase noise was not a significant problem. If we reduced the K3 output to 30 watts, there was no problem. Fortunately, we were able to change out the original K3 with another K3 and that significantly reduced the problem. Hi Gerry, Thanks for the info. As the ARRL data shows, phase noise performance of the K3 that's working right is quite a bit better than any other modern rigs out to 1 MHz, but that's as far as ARRL's published data goes. If it was my K3, it would have gone back to Elecraft as soon as I could get it there after the contest, even handing to them in their booth. :) 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
Perhaps this is discussed somewhere in the thread, but I am surprised by the lack of Flex SDRs in the mix. I would have thought at least a few would be there for PR, if no other reason. 73 -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/WRTC-2014-Congratulations-Elecraft-tp7591534p7591693.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
The West Valley Amateur Radio Association operating as K6EI and W6ZZZ (GotA) had a similar experience. We operated 6AB-QRP with CW, SSB and digital HF stations. We used K3s and KX3s exclusively. Our antennas were arranged in a line to minimize interference. We would often have CW, digital, and SSB on the same band. In operating the digital station, I never noticed the CW people. The only way I noticed the SSB people was by overhearing their sound waves from the tent next door. :-) 73 Bill AE6JV On 7/27/14 at 7:40 PM, k2av@gmail.com (Guy Olinger K2AV) wrote: This is something the North Carolina PVRC group that did field day together north of Raleigh already knew about K3's vs. the world from a pile of experiences. We had five or six K3's available to us, and we went purely with the K3's on HF in the 3A class. We had a little horizontal physical spread to help out, but we often had both CW and SSB on the same band at the same time due to the conditions, and one could not hear the co-band K3. - Bill Frantz| When it comes to the world | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | around us, is there any choice | 16345 Englewood Ave www.pwpconsult.com | but to explore? - Lisa Randall | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
On 7/28/2014 8:45 AM, N4OI - Ken wrote: Perhaps this is discussed somewhere in the thread, but I am surprised by the lack of Flex SDRs in the mix. I would have thought at least a few would be there for PR, if no other reason. __ There is an article that addresses the earlier Flex products, which shows the Flex 1500 and Flex 3000 to be... well... kinda punk in the noise department. http://sm5bsz.com/dynrange/dubus313.pdf No doubt it would be swell if all radios could be included, but I believe this is a HUGE time consuming job mining data by sifting through all those old reviews and selecting the correct data, and then even more time to plot them in a consistent manner. I am not sure there is data on all rigs of interest, and the newest Flex radios revealed at Dayton have yet to be reviewed, heck it takes 8 to 9 months for a new rig to get reviewed in QST magazine. It takes time to test, and issue content is lined up months in advance. I had a piece published in the Nov 2013 QST magazine, but it has been submitted 11 months earlier. K8JHR -- __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
I think that most are looking for something the K3 WRTC numbers are not telling. I rather doubt that people went out and bought them for the WRTC. With those kinds of numbers, the market had already made its decision a long time ago. I know some who borrowed K3 and/or P3 for the contest. That means those skilled operators had other rigs but *wanted* the K3/P3. The rest (vast majority) already owned them. In those cases, it's the rig they bought for themselves, or they had multiple rigs and *wanted* the K3/P3 for the WRTC. As a piece of market research, that list should be (and is) terrifying to other manufacturers. Usually when a single brand/model has such a huge penetration of top echelon operators, the competition will take decades to change minds in the market. The only comparable historical dominance of this sort is Collins Radio, which eventually lost out to Yakencom because the Collins transistor offerings were ridiculously expensive. The Yakencom radio which pushed up market penetration among contesters was the FT1000MP. Interestingly, among all I know who do/did have MP's for contesting and upgraded, 90+ percent of those went to K3's. As to the technical advantages of the K3, most of my own K3's observed advantages probably would not show up using the WRTC antenna package. That is after all an intentional little pistol setup. The well known clean performance of K3's in multi- and close station immunity is very useful there, but some newer Yakencom are quite good there as well. If you run a five element 40m wide spaced quad on a 190 foot catenary trained on Europe, and place an MP side-by-side with a K3, the enormous difference shows immediately. Even if Yakencom comes out with an intermediate price unit with somewhat better performance there, The K3 has a better version of the VHS over Betamax advantage, plus the huge advantage of the proven, now trusted Elecraft responsiveness to customer issues. A case can be made that the latter was the biggest K3 competitive advantage. It should be obvious and without argument that the K3 far and away has THE market penetration among serious contesters, regardless of how one might explain it. That is true even without the WRTC numbers, just not so visible and in-your-face obvious. 73, Guy K2AV PS, I got my taste for KoolAid as a kid, long before I was interested in any kind of radios. The inference that all KoolAid is spiked with Cyanide is an insult to the memory of my registered nurse mother, who would do just about anything to keep her kids hydrated out in the hot New Mexico desert sun, sometimes including her own variety of KoolAid made from scratch. Jim Jones was an idiot and ruined a perfectly good concept. Elecraft KoolAid (sometimes known as liquid mojo) is good stuff and perfectly safe for human consumption :) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
On 7/27/2014 3:19 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote: I think that most are looking for something the K3 WRTC numbers are not telling. I rather doubt that people went out and bought them for the WRTC. With those kinds of numbers, the market had already made its decision a long time ago. Well, a certain portion of the market certainly has -- those need a high performance rig for use under demanding conditions, including those of a contest multi-op. Egged on by a discussion on another email relector, I replotted ARRL test data for key clicks and TX phase noise. I'm not going to stop there, but the results so far tell a large part of the story. k9yc.com/TXNoise.pdf Consider it a work in progress. ARRL publishes its data in the form of graphs pretty small, and in some cases with too-wide ranging scales, so it takes a lot of practice to get data within +/- 1.5 dB. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
Thank you. I’ve done this by eyeball for pairs of rigs, but this really helps. It is a huge chunk of work to compile this. “Thanks” seems inadequate, wunder K6WRU CM87wj http://observer.wunderwood.org/ On Jul 27, 2014, at 5:25 PM, Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com wrote: On 7/27/2014 3:19 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote: I think that most are looking for something the K3 WRTC numbers are not telling. I rather doubt that people went out and bought them for the WRTC. With those kinds of numbers, the market had already made its decision a long time ago. Well, a certain portion of the market certainly has -- those need a high performance rig for use under demanding conditions, including those of a contest multi-op. Egged on by a discussion on another email relector, I replotted ARRL test data for key clicks and TX phase noise. I'm not going to stop there, but the results so far tell a large part of the story. k9yc.com/TXNoise.pdf Consider it a work in progress. ARRL publishes its data in the form of graphs pretty small, and in some cases with too-wide ranging scales, so it takes a lot of practice to get data within +/- 1.5 dB. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to wun...@wunderwood.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
Thank you for the graphs. This is something the North Carolina PVRC group that did field day together north of Raleigh already knew about K3's vs. the world from a pile of experiences. We had five or six K3's available to us, and we went purely with the K3's on HF in the 3A class. We had a little horizontal physical spread to help out, but we often had both CW and SSB on the same band at the same time due to the conditions, and one could not hear the co-band K3. So I knew what to expect from your curves on the K3. 73, Guy K2AV Egged on by a discussion on another email relector, I replotted ARRL test data for key clicks and TX phase noise. I'm not going to stop there, but the results so far tell a large part of the story. k9yc.com/TXNoise.pdf Consider it a work in progress. ARRL publishes its data in the form of graphs pretty small, and in some cases with too-wide ranging scales, so it takes a lot of practice to get data within +/- 1.5 dB. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
There were 1-2 Yaesu radios that did not have the after-market key click mod and were causing tremendous unnecessary QRM to other WRTC stations. Those radios were detected in the Friday setup period and swapped out to eliminate the QRM. The 65 WRTC sites (only 59 actually used) were spread out over a distance of 80 miles, from the southern NH border to the entrance to Cape Cod in southern MA. There were some clusters of sites where 15 or so WRTC stations were located just a couple thousand yards from each other. The 100 watt power limit helped a bit, too. Ed W0YK Fred K6DGW wrote: The one factor that using different radios does not control for is spurious emissions such as key clicks and phase noise. There *is* a wide difference in those between the radios. Don't know if that would turn out to be an issue in the WRTC environment, although I sure know it was when my neighbor Jack, KF6T, was running a Yaesu rig with serious phase noise problems. Of course, if clicks and phase noise was an issue at WRTC, it would impact everyone else negatively. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
I'm partial to the comments below. While I prefer Win-Test for CW (and SSB) contesting, I strongly prefer WriteLog for RTTY contesting. N1MM Logger is a close second for RTTY. At the same time, I have to acknowledge that the current SO HP World Record holder in the CQ WW RTTY Contest used Win-Test. ;) I believe that the best logger for you is the logger that works best for you, not the logger that works best for someone else, or is the most popular logger among contesters. Ed W0YK Joe W4TV wrote: On 2014-07-24 12:56 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote: And also note that WinTest was number one logging software. Only due to two accidents - the large number of European teams and that WRTC does not include any RTTY component. When one looks at teams from the Americas, N1MM Logger was the more popular logger. When one looks at the top performers in digital mode contests the results show a much higher percentage of N1MM logger and WriteLog users. Win-Test has its pace if one is stuck on a user interface from the last century and is only concerned for CW (not that either is necessarily bad). __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
Jim, Thank you. Very persuading comparison. Could you possibly add some modern SDR based rigs to the comparison? 73, Igor UA9CDC - Original Message - From: Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 6:25 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update) On 7/27/2014 3:19 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote: I think that most are looking for something the K3 WRTC numbers are not telling. I rather doubt that people went out and bought them for the WRTC. With those kinds of numbers, the market had already made its decision a long time ago. Well, a certain portion of the market certainly has -- those need a high performance rig for use under demanding conditions, including those of a contest multi-op. Egged on by a discussion on another email relector, I replotted ARRL test data for key clicks and TX phase noise. I'm not going to stop there, but the results so far tell a large part of the story. k9yc.com/TXNoise.pdf Consider it a work in progress. ARRL publishes its data in the form of graphs pretty small, and in some cases with too-wide ranging scales, so it takes a lot of practice to get data within +/- 1.5 dB. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to ua9...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
On 7/27/2014 9:23 PM, Ed Muns wrote: I believe that the best logger for you is the logger that works best for you, not the logger that works best for someone else, or is the most popular logger among contesters. I agree completely. And the logger that is best for you is usually the one that you know so intimately that everything is completely instinctive. That takes lots of operating time! Because I'm happy with N1MM, and because it doesn't do CQP, I haven't bothered to study WinTest. I'd be interested to hear from WinTest users what they view as its advantages. The only things I've heard so far is that networking is quite solid and that the UI is very much like one of the popular DOS programs. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
On 7/27/2014 9:23 PM, Igor Sokolov wrote: Jim, Thank you. Very persuading comparison. Could you possibly add some modern SDR based rigs to the comparison? Hello Igor, So far, I've not bothered to look at the older ones, having read this work, and ARRL has not reviewed anything since the Flex 3000 in 2009. For that one, keying looks like the middle of middle of the pack rigs, phase noise is about -120 dBC all the way out to 1 MHz. http://sm5bsz.com/dynrange/dubus313.pdf I've seen predictions that the newer rigs will be better. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
Hi Jim - will you be adding the spectral display graphs of transmitter composite noise testing which appear in the various product reviews to your summary? If so, I will help mine the graphs from the reviews, if that will ease some of the work load. I know that takes serious time. -- K8JHR On 7/27/2014 8:25 PM, Jim Brown wrote: I replotted ARRL test data for key clicks and TX phase noise. I'm not going to stop there, __ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
I agree completely. The rig and logging software have very to do with the outcome. The #1 team probably has a sore back and sore arms, from lugging 7800s there :-) Barry W2UP Don Wilhelm-4 wrote Yes, very interesting, and I think most of the credit goes to the operators, rather than the radios. However, the fact that a very large percentage of these top operators *choose* to use the Elecraft K3 does say a lot about the desirability of the K3 for contesting. Whether that be because of the weight, or because of the performance and operating interface, you would probably have to ask each K3 operator about his choice. 73, Don W3FPR -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/WRTC-2014-Congratulations-Elecraft-tp7591534p7591572.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
A little number crunching of the results (because that sort of thing appeals to me... (the XYL says, There's something seriously wrong with you.)) tends to support the idea that the hardware is not the primary factor for this contest. The results below are somewhat suspect in that only 'Radio 1' was considered, and all of the QSO's were attributed to that radio. (A better approach might be to split the number of QSO's between Radio 1 and Radio 2. I might dedicate some brain cycles to that.) Interestingly, of the teams that made use of K3's for Radio 1, six of them used another brand for Radio 2, whereas teams that used something other than a K3 for 'Radio 1' didn't (with only a single exception (W1B)) make use of a K3 for 'Radio 2'. Given the number of K3's in the contest it's not surprising that 68% of all QSO's made were made by K3's. I hope the formatting holds for the table below. If it doesn't, e-mail me and I'll send you my spreadsheet. Radio 1 Avg # QSOs Avg Score Avg CW QSOs Avg SSB QSOsAvg HQ QSOs Avg DX QSOs FT1000D 3,564 4,212,430 2,230 1,334 145 204 FT1000MP3,935 4,900,036 3,208 727 136 219 FT3000 3,871 5,308,913 2,892 980 152 235 FTDX50003,910 5,330,219 2,968 942 157 240 IC756-3 4,285 5,982,317 3,039 1,246 153 243 IC7600 3,885 5,635,070 3,110 775 161 234 IC7800 4,382 5,808,693 3,656 726 167 250 K3 3,955 5,308,466 3,054 900 151 233 Orion II3,622 4,532,602 2,562 1,060 143 219 TS590 3,559 4,433,905 2,796 763 134 221 73 AA7F On Jul 25, 2014, at 05:28 AM, Barry w...@comcast.net wrote: I agree completely. The rig and logging software have very to do with the outcome. The #1 team probably has a sore back and sore arms, from lugging 7800s there :-) Barry W2UP Don Wilhelm-4 wrote Yes, very interesting, and I think most of the credit goes to the operators, rather than the radios. However, the fact that a very large percentage of these top operators *choose* to use the Elecraft K3 does say a lot about the desirability of the K3 for contesting. Whether that be because of the weight, or because of the performance and operating interface, you would probably have to ask each K3 operator about his choice. 73, Don W3FPR -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/WRTC-2014-Congratulations-Elecraft-tp7591534p7591572.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arlenfletc...@mac.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
Shucks, fellers. All that does not add up. WE can rationalize this any way we like, but the fact is, 5 of the 6 best operators did not choose a K3, and I know least one other happy K3 owner used a Brand-X radio for the competition, and in all of his qualifying rounds. Logically - If you say the rig does not matter, and it all turns on operator skill ... then no one can brag about any particular radio used in the competition for any reason. We cannot have it both ways. We cannot say the K3 is best because 70 percent of the field used one, but it does not matter what the winners used, because after all, it all turns on operator skill. If the rig does not matter for the winners, it does not matter for anyone. So the unfortunate bottom line take-away is the top three teams used 5 5 ICOMS and one K3. Again, if you claim the radio does not matter, then it does not matter, and we cannot claim any victory for any rig used in the contest. That would be inconsistent. Personally, I think the fact 70 percent of the field used the same model radio is significant, although it may just prove it is easier than other radios to ship and travel with. Still... it is a big number. Just MY take. --- K8JHR - On 7/25/2014 8:27 AM, Barry wrote: I agree completely. The rig and logging software have very to do with the outcome. The #1 team probably has a sore back and sore arms, from lugging 7800s there :-) Barry W2UP Don Wilhelm-4 wrote Yes, very interesting, and I think most of the credit goes to the operators, rather than the radios. However, the fact that a very large percentage of these top operators *choose* to use the Elecraft K3 does say a lot about the desirability of the K3 for contesting. Whether that be because of the weight, or because of the performance and operating interface, you would probably have to ask each K3 operator about his choice. 73, Don W3FPR -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/WRTC-2014-Congratulations-Elecraft-tp7591534p7591572.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to jricha...@k8jhr.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
I think that the rig is not very important. One tidbit to support this theory, although far from conclusive, is to compare what happened to the OE3DIA team in 2010 vs 2014. In 2010 there was a nasty lightning storm the took out both of this teams K3's. They were knocked out about 1 hour into the contest. But Yaesu had some reps on site and they had a pair of FT857's which they loaned to the team. They lost about an hour in the switchover. So they ran for 23 hours while the other teams ran for 24. If you compare their score at the end of the contest to the other teams after 23 hours (the hour-by-hour scores was available on the Russian web site for a while after the contest) they were in about the middle of the pack. This is using K3's for 1 hour and FT857's for 22 hours. In 2014 I see no notes about anyone suffering such a loss and the OE3DIA team finished 22nd out of 59. Again about the middle of the pack. I think this somewhat better than their 23 hour comparison in 2010, but not a lot better. This would tend to indicate that - when in the hands of very competent operators - a pair of lowly FT857's is nearly as good as a pair of K3's. Now, don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying the FT857 is as good as a K3, it is *not*. No doubt about that. In fact, it is not as good as a K2. I have those two sitting here side by side and I can assure you that the K2 is the superior rig. What it says to me is that the K3 and others of its class are somewhat overkill. The lowly FT857 is 'nearly good enough'. Certainly not great, but 'nearly good enough'. 73 de dave ab9ca/4 On 7/25/14 2:44 PM, K8JHR wrote: Shucks, fellers. All that does not add up. WE can rationalize this any way we like, but the fact is, 5 of the 6 best operators did not choose a K3, and I know least one other happy K3 owner used a Brand-X radio for the competition, and in all of his qualifying rounds. Logically - If you say the rig does not matter, and it all turns on operator skill ... then no one can brag about any particular radio used in the competition for any reason. We cannot have it both ways. We cannot say the K3 is best because 70 percent of the field used one, but it does not matter what the winners used, because after all, it all turns on operator skill. If the rig does not matter for the winners, it does not matter for anyone. So the unfortunate bottom line take-away is the top three teams used 5 5 ICOMS and one K3. Again, if you claim the radio does not matter, then it does not matter, and we cannot claim any victory for any rig used in the contest. That would be inconsistent. Personally, I think the fact 70 percent of the field used the same model radio is significant, although it may just prove it is easier than other radios to ship and travel with. Still... it is a big number. Just MY take. --- K8JHR - On 7/25/2014 8:27 AM, Barry wrote: I agree completely. The rig and logging software have very to do with the outcome. The #1 team probably has a sore back and sore arms, from lugging 7800s there :-) Barry W2UP Don Wilhelm-4 wrote Yes, very interesting, and I think most of the credit goes to the operators, rather than the radios. However, the fact that a very large percentage of these top operators *choose* to use the Elecraft K3 does say a lot about the desirability of the K3 for contesting. Whether that be because of the weight, or because of the performance and operating interface, you would probably have to ask each K3 operator about his choice. 73, Don W3FPR -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/WRTC-2014-Congratulations-Elecraft-tp7591534p7591572.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to jricha...@k8jhr.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to ho13d...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
I think you're correct Dave. Unlike all other contests, WRTC is refereed and everyone uses identical antennas and power ... about as level a playing field as you could ever create. WRTC *is* structured to focus on operator skills vs station excellence, 100W is 100W in that situation, it doesn't really matter which rig generated the RF. Mandating a specific radio would put all the ops who don't use that radio in everyday contesting at a big disadvantage. There could be some small advantages on receive, I imagine they were confronted with pile-ups earlier in the contest, but eventually, they likely worked everyone they heard, and I doubt there would be much difference in what one could hear on a K3 vs a 7600, FT1000, or other radios. They're all either current state-of-the-art radios or close. The one factor that using different radios does not control for is spurious emissions such as key clicks and phase noise. There *is* a wide difference in those between the radios. Don't know if that would turn out to be an issue in the WRTC environment, although I sure know it was when my neighbor Jack, KF6T, was running a Yaesu rig with serious phase noise problems. Of course, if clicks and phase noise was an issue at WRTC, it would impact everyone else negatively. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014 - www.cqp.org On 7/25/2014 3:43 PM, dave wrote: I think that the rig is not very important. One tidbit to support this theory, although far from conclusive, is to compare what happened to the OE3DIA team in 2010 vs 2014. In 2010 there was a nasty lightning storm the took out both of this teams K3's. They were knocked out about 1 hour into the contest. But Yaesu had some reps on site and they had a pair of FT857's which they loaned to the team. They lost about an hour in the switchover. So they ran for 23 hours while the other teams ran for 24. If you compare their score at the end of the contest to the other teams after 23 hours (the hour-by-hour scores was available on the Russian web site for a while after the contest) they were in about the middle of the pack. This is using K3's for 1 hour and FT857's for 22 hours. In 2014 I see no notes about anyone suffering such a loss and the OE3DIA team finished 22nd out of 59. Again about the middle of the pack. I think this somewhat better than their 23 hour comparison in 2010, but not a lot better. This would tend to indicate that - when in the hands of very competent operators - a pair of lowly FT857's is nearly as good as a pair of K3's. Now, don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying the FT857 is as good as a K3, it is *not*. No doubt about that. In fact, it is not as good as a K2. I have those two sitting here side by side and I can assure you that the K2 is the superior rig. What it says to me is that the K3 and others of its class are somewhat overkill. The lowly FT857 is 'nearly good enough'. Certainly not great, but 'nearly good enough'. 73 de dave ab9ca/4 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
Fred, Not really. It would very much effect those individual stations in the respective close area 'group' of the offending transmitter. And there were three of four fairly large 'groups' of stations. The other groups and the more widely spread stations would not be affected with the exception of perhaps on 80 Meters. 73 de Milt, N5IA = Fred, K6DGW commented: Of course, if clicks and phase noise was an issue at WRTC, it would impact everyone else negatively. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4716 / Virus Database: 3986/7921 - Release Date: 07/25/14 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
IMHO the most of those participants who had to travel long way have chosen the lightest out of the best radios. And K3 is unbeatable in that respect. Unfortunately in WRTC2014, locations were much different and very often that was the most important factor affecting the final standing. You can't work them if you don't hear them See these HFTA plots for comparison. URL: http://lists.wrtc2014.org/pipermail/wrtc2014/attachments/20140717/1860e222/attachment.jpg Name: W1V BLUE - K1A RED TERRAIN PROFILE 45 Degree Azimuth .jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 236102 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://lists.wrtc2014.org/pipermail/wrtc2014/attachments/20140717/1860e222/attachment-0001.jpg According to those who participated both in WRTC 2010 and WRTC 2014, the former was much more level field in that respect. Besides radio and operating skill one had to pull out right operating position. And this explains why some top notch ops like for example CT1BOH or ES5TV are well below the middle of the list in the final standing this year. 73, Igor UA9CDC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
Below is the actual data and link to the public source of Rick's comment about rigs used in WRTC. 73, Bill W4ZV P.S. In case others missed it there was a major firmware update (MCU 4.86 DSP 2.83) on June 10. For some reason there was no announcement about it (see http://www.elecraft.com/K3/k3_software.htm ) WRTC data: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/aocc/2014-July/016712.html Andy N2NT is still collecting data, but his preliminary release showed the following breakdown of radios used at WRTC2014 for 91 radios he compiled. I'll show the final when he releases it, maybe later this week. Not surprising figures, as the K3 has a lot of features in a small package. Great for worldwide travel. It should be noted that at least 2 of the IC7600's were loaners from sponsor Icom. One pair went to the YL Team of DL1QQ/DL8DYL, who finished well, 21st. More when I know more. 73, Bob K8IA - K3 63 IC7600 6 TS590 5 FTdx5000 5 FT1000MP 3 IC7800 2 FT1000D 2 IC756pro3 2 Other (IC7700, FT3000, TS850) 3 91 -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/WRTC-2014-Congratulations-Elecraft-tp7591534p7591535.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
That's more lopsided (2/3 K3's) than the first WRTC after the K3 came out (1/2 K3's). 73, Guy. On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Bill W4ZV btipp...@alum.mit.edu wrote: Below is the actual data and link to the public source of Rick's comment about rigs used in WRTC. 73, Bill W4ZV P.S. In case others missed it there was a major firmware update (MCU 4.86 DSP 2.83) on June 10. For some reason there was no announcement about it (see http://www.elecraft.com/K3/k3_software.htm ) WRTC data: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/aocc/2014-July/016712.html Andy N2NT is still collecting data, but his preliminary release showed the following breakdown of radios used at WRTC2014 for 91 radios he compiled. I'll show the final when he releases it, maybe later this week. Not surprising figures, as the K3 has a lot of features in a small package. Great for worldwide travel. It should be noted that at least 2 of the IC7600's were loaners from sponsor Icom. One pair went to the YL Team of DL1QQ/DL8DYL, who finished well, 21st. More when I know more. 73, Bob K8IA - K3 63 IC7600 6 TS590 5 FTdx5000 5 FT1000MP 3 IC7800 2 FT1000D 2 IC756pro3 2 Other (IC7700, FT3000, TS850) 3 91 -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/WRTC-2014-Congratulations-Elecraft-tp7591534p7591535.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to k2av@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
It appears the official report of transceivers and software is here: http://www.wrtc2014.org/radios-and-software-used/ The K3 was used by more than four times as many competitors than rigs from any other manufacturer (Elecraft: 75, Yaesu: 16, Icom: 15, Kenwood: 8, Ten-Tec: 2). Interestingly, 41 of the 59 teams (nearly 70%) used a K3. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2014-07-24 5:57 AM, Bill W4ZV wrote: Below is the actual data and link to the public source of Rick's comment about rigs used in WRTC. 73, Bill W4ZV P.S. In case others missed it there was a major firmware update (MCU 4.86 DSP 2.83) on June 10. For some reason there was no announcement about it (see http://www.elecraft.com/K3/k3_software.htm ) WRTC data: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/aocc/2014-July/016712.html Andy N2NT is still collecting data, but his preliminary release showed the following breakdown of radios used at WRTC2014 for 91 radios he compiled. I'll show the final when he releases it, maybe later this week. Not surprising figures, as the K3 has a lot of features in a small package. Great for worldwide travel. It should be noted that at least 2 of the IC7600's were loaners from sponsor Icom. One pair went to the YL Team of DL1QQ/DL8DYL, who finished well, 21st. More when I know more. 73, Bob K8IA - K3 63 IC7600 6 TS590 5 FTdx5000 5 FT1000MP 3 IC7800 2 FT1000D 2 IC756pro3 2 Other (IC7700, FT3000, TS850) 3 91 -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/WRTC-2014-Congratulations-Elecraft-tp7591534p7591535.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to li...@subich.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
Here they are sorted in order of finish: # Call Team RADIO 1 RADIO 2 SOFTWARE 1 K1A N6MJ / KL9A IC7800IC7800WINTEST 2 W1L OM3BH / OM3GIK3IC7600WINTEST 3 W1P DJ5MW / DL1IAO IC756-3 IC756-3 WINTEST 4 W1Z N5DX / N2IC K3K3N1MM 5 N1M K9VV / VE3EJ K3K3N1MM 6 W1A LY9A / LY4L FT3000FT1000MP WINTEST 7 W1D K1LZ / YT6W IC7800IC7800WINTEST 8 N1K DK6XZ / DK9IPK3K3WINTEST 9 K1D UR0MC / VE3DZK3K3N1MM 10 K1V G0CKV / M0DXRK3K3WINTEST 11 K1L S50A / S57AW K3K3N1MM 12 K1S W2SC / N2NL K3K3WRITELOG 13 K1K RL3FT / RA3COK3K3WINTEST 14 W1S F8DBF / F1AKKTS590 TS850 WINTEST 15 W1M 4O3A / HA1AG K3K3WINTEST 16 N1F RW1A / RA1A FTDX5000 FT1000MP WINTEST 17 N1G RX3APM / RV1AW K3K3WINTEST 18 N1Z PY1NX / LZ3YYK3K3N1MM 19 N1R UA3DPX / UA4FER K3K3WINTEST 20 K1R N4YDU / N3KS K3K3N1MM 21 N1A DL1QQ / DL8DYL IC7600IC7600WINTEST 22 K1N OE3DIA / E77DX K3K3WINTEST 23 K1I UU4JMG / UU0JM K3K3WINTEST 24 W1W OH2UA / OH6KZP FTDX5000 FTDX5000 WINTEST 25 W1C 9A5K / 9A1TT IC756-3 IC756-3 DXLOG 26 K1G 9A6XX / 9A1UNFT1000MP FT1000MP WINTEST 27 K1P M0CFW / GI0RTN K3K3WINTEST 28 K1C KE3X / K0DQ K3FTDX5000 WINTEST 29 K1T IZ1LBG / WQ2NK3IC7600WINTEST 30 N1O RC9O / UA9PM K3K3WINTEST 31 N1T ES5TV / ES2RRFTDX5000 FTDX5000 WINTEST 32 W1U LZ4AX / LZ3FNK3K3N1MM 33 K1Z VE7CC / VE7SVK3K3N1MM 34 K1W K6AM / N6AN K3K3WINTEST 35 N1V K7RL / KL2A K3K3N1MM 36 N1U K8MR / K9NW K3K3WINTEST 37 N1L KU1CW / EA5GTQ K3K3N1MM 38 N1W PY2YU / PY2NDX K3K3WINTEST 39 W1F CT1ILT / CT1BOH K3TS590 WINTEST 40 W1O OM2VL / OM3RMK3IC7600WINTEST 41 W1N 5B4WN / 5B4AFM K3K3WINTEST 42 W1V R9DX / UA9CDVK3K3WINTEST 43 W1G F4DXW / F8CMFK3K3WINTEST 44 N1S LX2A / YO3JR TS590 TS590 WINTEST 45 N1D NR5M / W2GD K3IC7700WINTEST 46 W1T AD4Z / W4UH Orion II Orion II N1MM 47 W1R OH2BH / OH2MMFTDX5000 FTDX5000 WINTEST 48 W1B OE2VEL / OE5OHO FT3000K3WINTEST 49 N1C IK2NCJ / IK2QEI K3K3WINTEST 50 N1P CX6VM / LU1FAM K3K3N1MM 51 N1B YL1ZF / YL2GQT k3k3WINTEST 52 W1I W2RE / WW2DX K3K3N1MM 53 N1N KH6ND / KH6SHFT1000MP FT1000MP WRITELOG 54 K1B W9RE / N5OT K3K3N1MM 55 K1F VY2ZM / KK6ZMFT1000D FT1000D WINTEST 56 W1K BA5CW / BA7IOK3K3N1MM 57 K1O JH5GHM / JA1OJE TS590 IC7600SKOOKUMLOGGER 58 K1M IK1HJS / I4UFH K3K3WINTEST 59 K1U KF5EYY / YT1AD TS590 TS590 WINTEST 73 de dave ab9ca/4 On 7/24/14 6:44 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: It appears the official report of transceivers and software is here: http://www.wrtc2014.org/radios-and-software-used/ The K3 was used by more than four times as many competitors than rigs from any other manufacturer (Elecraft: 75, Yaesu: 16, Icom: 15, Kenwood: 8, Ten-Tec: 2). Interestingly, 41 of the 59 teams (nearly 70%) used a K3. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2014-07-24 5:57 AM, Bill W4ZV wrote: Below is the actual data and link to the public source of Rick's comment about rigs used in WRTC. 73, Bill W4ZV P.S. In case others missed it there was a major firmware update (MCU 4.86 DSP 2.83) on June 10. For some reason there was no announcement about it (see http://www.elecraft.com/K3/k3_software.htm ) WRTC data: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/aocc/2014-July/016712.html Andy N2NT is still collecting data, but his preliminary release showed the following breakdown of radios used at WRTC2014 for 91 radios he compiled. I'll show the final when he releases it, maybe later this week. Not surprising figures, as the K3 has a lot of features in a small package. Great for worldwide travel. It should be noted that at least 2 of the IC7600's were loaners from sponsor Icom. One pair went to the YL Team of DL1QQ/DL8DYL, who finished well, 21st. More when I know more. 73, Bob K8IA - K3 63 IC7600 6 TS590 5 FTdx5000 5 FT1000MP 3 IC7800 2 FT1000D 2 IC756pro3 2 Other (IC7700, FT3000, TS850) 3 91 -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/WRTC-2014-Congratulations-Elecraft-tp7591534p7591535.html Sent from the Elecraft
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
And also note that WinTest was number one logging software. 73, Guy On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 10:35 AM, dave ho13d...@gmail.com wrote: Here they are sorted in order of finish: # Call Team RADIO 1 RADIO 2 SOFTWARE 1 K1A N6MJ / KL9A IC7800IC7800WINTEST 2 W1L OM3BH / OM3GIK3IC7600WINTEST 3 W1P DJ5MW / DL1IAO IC756-3 IC756-3 WINTEST 4 W1Z N5DX / N2IC K3K3N1MM 5 N1M K9VV / VE3EJ K3K3N1MM 6 W1A LY9A / LY4L FT3000FT1000MP WINTEST 7 W1D K1LZ / YT6W IC7800IC7800WINTEST 8 N1K DK6XZ / DK9IPK3K3WINTEST 9 K1D UR0MC / VE3DZK3K3N1MM 10 K1V G0CKV / M0DXRK3K3WINTEST 11 K1L S50A / S57AW K3K3N1MM 12 K1S W2SC / N2NL K3K3WRITELOG 13 K1K RL3FT / RA3COK3K3WINTEST 14 W1S F8DBF / F1AKKTS590 TS850 WINTEST 15 W1M 4O3A / HA1AG K3K3WINTEST 16 N1F RW1A / RA1A FTDX5000 FT1000MP WINTEST 17 N1G RX3APM / RV1AW K3K3WINTEST 18 N1Z PY1NX / LZ3YYK3K3N1MM 19 N1R UA3DPX / UA4FER K3K3WINTEST 20 K1R N4YDU / N3KS K3K3N1MM 21 N1A DL1QQ / DL8DYL IC7600IC7600WINTEST 22 K1N OE3DIA / E77DX K3K3WINTEST 23 K1I UU4JMG / UU0JM K3K3WINTEST 24 W1W OH2UA / OH6KZP FTDX5000 FTDX5000 WINTEST 25 W1C 9A5K / 9A1TT IC756-3 IC756-3 DXLOG 26 K1G 9A6XX / 9A1UNFT1000MP FT1000MP WINTEST 27 K1P M0CFW / GI0RTN K3K3WINTEST 28 K1C KE3X / K0DQ K3FTDX5000 WINTEST 29 K1T IZ1LBG / WQ2NK3IC7600WINTEST 30 N1O RC9O / UA9PM K3K3WINTEST 31 N1T ES5TV / ES2RRFTDX5000 FTDX5000 WINTEST 32 W1U LZ4AX / LZ3FNK3K3N1MM 33 K1Z VE7CC / VE7SVK3K3N1MM 34 K1W K6AM / N6AN K3K3WINTEST 35 N1V K7RL / KL2A K3K3N1MM 36 N1U K8MR / K9NW K3K3WINTEST 37 N1L KU1CW / EA5GTQ K3K3N1MM 38 N1W PY2YU / PY2NDX K3K3WINTEST 39 W1F CT1ILT / CT1BOH K3TS590 WINTEST 40 W1O OM2VL / OM3RMK3IC7600WINTEST 41 W1N 5B4WN / 5B4AFM K3K3WINTEST 42 W1V R9DX / UA9CDVK3K3WINTEST 43 W1G F4DXW / F8CMFK3K3WINTEST 44 N1S LX2A / YO3JR TS590 TS590 WINTEST 45 N1D NR5M / W2GD K3IC7700WINTEST 46 W1T AD4Z / W4UH Orion II Orion II N1MM 47 W1R OH2BH / OH2MMFTDX5000 FTDX5000 WINTEST 48 W1B OE2VEL / OE5OHO FT3000K3WINTEST 49 N1C IK2NCJ / IK2QEI K3K3WINTEST 50 N1P CX6VM / LU1FAM K3K3N1MM 51 N1B YL1ZF / YL2GQT k3k3WINTEST 52 W1I W2RE / WW2DX K3K3N1MM 53 N1N KH6ND / KH6SHFT1000MP FT1000MP WRITELOG 54 K1B W9RE / N5OT K3K3N1MM 55 K1F VY2ZM / KK6ZMFT1000D FT1000D WINTEST 56 W1K BA5CW / BA7IOK3K3N1MM 57 K1O JH5GHM / JA1OJE TS590 IC7600SKOOKUMLOGGER 58 K1M IK1HJS / I4UFH K3K3WINTEST 59 K1U KF5EYY / YT1AD TS590 TS590 WINTEST 73 de dave ab9ca/4 On 7/24/14 6:44 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: It appears the official report of transceivers and software is here: http://www.wrtc2014.org/radios-and-software-used/ The K3 was used by more than four times as many competitors than rigs from any other manufacturer (Elecraft: 75, Yaesu: 16, Icom: 15, Kenwood: 8, Ten-Tec: 2). Interestingly, 41 of the 59 teams (nearly 70%) used a K3. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2014-07-24 5:57 AM, Bill W4ZV wrote: Below is the actual data and link to the public source of Rick's comment about rigs used in WRTC. 73, Bill W4ZV P.S. In case others missed it there was a major firmware update (MCU 4.86 DSP 2.83) on June 10. For some reason there was no announcement about it (see http://www.elecraft.com/K3/k3_software.htm ) WRTC data: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/aocc/2014-July/016712.html Andy N2NT is still collecting data, but his preliminary release showed the following breakdown of radios used at WRTC2014 for 91 radios he compiled. I'll show the final when he releases it, maybe later this week. Not surprising figures, as the K3 has a lot of features in a small package. Great for worldwide travel. It should be noted that at least 2 of the IC7600's were loaners from sponsor Icom. One pair went to the YL Team of DL1QQ/DL8DYL, who finished well, 21st. More when I know more. 73, Bob K8IA - K3 63 IC7600 6 TS590 5 FTdx5000 5
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
On 2014-07-24 12:56 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote: And also note that WinTest was number one logging software. Only due to two accidents - the large number of European teams and that WRTC does not include any RTTY component. When one looks at teams from the Americas, N1MM Logger was the more popular logger. When one looks at the top performers in digital mode contests the results show a much higher percentage of N1MM logger and WriteLog users. Win-Test has its pace if one is stuck on a user interface from the last century and is only concerned for CW (not that either is necessarily bad). 73, ... Joe, W4TV On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 10:35 AM, dave ho13d...@gmail.com wrote: Here they are sorted in order of finish: # Call Team RADIO 1 RADIO 2 SOFTWARE 1 K1A N6MJ / KL9A IC7800IC7800WINTEST 2 W1L OM3BH / OM3GIK3IC7600WINTEST 3 W1P DJ5MW / DL1IAO IC756-3 IC756-3 WINTEST 4 W1Z N5DX / N2IC K3K3N1MM 5 N1M K9VV / VE3EJ K3K3N1MM 6 W1A LY9A / LY4L FT3000FT1000MP WINTEST 7 W1D K1LZ / YT6W IC7800IC7800WINTEST 8 N1K DK6XZ / DK9IPK3K3WINTEST 9 K1D UR0MC / VE3DZK3K3N1MM 10 K1V G0CKV / M0DXRK3K3WINTEST 11 K1L S50A / S57AW K3K3N1MM 12 K1S W2SC / N2NL K3K3WRITELOG 13 K1K RL3FT / RA3COK3K3WINTEST 14 W1S F8DBF / F1AKKTS590 TS850 WINTEST 15 W1M 4O3A / HA1AG K3K3WINTEST 16 N1F RW1A / RA1A FTDX5000 FT1000MP WINTEST 17 N1G RX3APM / RV1AW K3K3WINTEST 18 N1Z PY1NX / LZ3YYK3K3N1MM 19 N1R UA3DPX / UA4FER K3K3WINTEST 20 K1R N4YDU / N3KS K3K3N1MM 21 N1A DL1QQ / DL8DYL IC7600IC7600WINTEST 22 K1N OE3DIA / E77DX K3K3WINTEST 23 K1I UU4JMG / UU0JM K3K3WINTEST 24 W1W OH2UA / OH6KZP FTDX5000 FTDX5000 WINTEST 25 W1C 9A5K / 9A1TT IC756-3 IC756-3 DXLOG 26 K1G 9A6XX / 9A1UNFT1000MP FT1000MP WINTEST 27 K1P M0CFW / GI0RTN K3K3WINTEST 28 K1C KE3X / K0DQ K3FTDX5000 WINTEST 29 K1T IZ1LBG / WQ2NK3IC7600WINTEST 30 N1O RC9O / UA9PM K3K3WINTEST 31 N1T ES5TV / ES2RRFTDX5000 FTDX5000 WINTEST 32 W1U LZ4AX / LZ3FNK3K3N1MM 33 K1Z VE7CC / VE7SVK3K3N1MM 34 K1W K6AM / N6AN K3K3WINTEST 35 N1V K7RL / KL2A K3K3N1MM 36 N1U K8MR / K9NW K3K3WINTEST 37 N1L KU1CW / EA5GTQ K3K3N1MM 38 N1W PY2YU / PY2NDX K3K3WINTEST 39 W1F CT1ILT / CT1BOH K3TS590 WINTEST 40 W1O OM2VL / OM3RMK3IC7600WINTEST 41 W1N 5B4WN / 5B4AFM K3K3WINTEST 42 W1V R9DX / UA9CDVK3K3WINTEST 43 W1G F4DXW / F8CMFK3K3WINTEST 44 N1S LX2A / YO3JR TS590 TS590 WINTEST 45 N1D NR5M / W2GD K3IC7700WINTEST 46 W1T AD4Z / W4UH Orion II Orion II N1MM 47 W1R OH2BH / OH2MMFTDX5000 FTDX5000 WINTEST 48 W1B OE2VEL / OE5OHO FT3000K3WINTEST 49 N1C IK2NCJ / IK2QEI K3K3WINTEST 50 N1P CX6VM / LU1FAM K3K3N1MM 51 N1B YL1ZF / YL2GQT k3k3WINTEST 52 W1I W2RE / WW2DX K3K3N1MM 53 N1N KH6ND / KH6SHFT1000MP FT1000MP WRITELOG 54 K1B W9RE / N5OT K3K3N1MM 55 K1F VY2ZM / KK6ZMFT1000D FT1000D WINTEST 56 W1K BA5CW / BA7IOK3K3N1MM 57 K1O JH5GHM / JA1OJE TS590 IC7600SKOOKUMLOGGER 58 K1M IK1HJS / I4UFH K3K3WINTEST 59 K1U KF5EYY / YT1AD TS590 TS590 WINTEST 73 de dave ab9ca/4 On 7/24/14 6:44 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: It appears the official report of transceivers and software is here: http://www.wrtc2014.org/radios-and-software-used/ The K3 was used by more than four times as many competitors than rigs from any other manufacturer (Elecraft: 75, Yaesu: 16, Icom: 15, Kenwood: 8, Ten-Tec: 2). Interestingly, 41 of the 59 teams (nearly 70%) used a K3. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2014-07-24 5:57 AM, Bill W4ZV wrote: Below is the actual data and link to the public source of Rick's comment about rigs used in WRTC. 73, Bill W4ZV P.S. In case others missed it there was a major firmware update (MCU 4.86 DSP 2.83) on June 10. For some reason there was no announcement about it (see http://www.elecraft.com/K3/k3_software.htm ) WRTC data: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/aocc/2014-July/016712.html Andy N2NT is still collecting data, but his preliminary release
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
This is very interesting. I've been thinking of all the ways you could spin this data other than simply counting radios. For example, Icom could say, Five out of the top six winning radios were Icoms. Yaesu could say, When Elecraft owner Martti Laine needed a top performer for WRTC... he reached for his Yaesu!, Kenwood could say, Think a Kenwood can't beat an Elecraft in a tough contesting situation? Think again. c. I think what this all really means is that it comes down to the operator, not the radio... which is the whole reason for WRTC in the first place. Al W6LX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
* On 2014 24 Jul 14:16 -0500, Al Lorona wrote: This is very interesting. I've been thinking of all the ways you could spin this data other than simply counting radios. For example, Icom could say, Five out of the top six winning radios were Icoms. Yaesu could say, When Elecraft owner Martti Laine needed a top performer for WRTC... he reached for his Yaesu!, Kenwood could say, Think a Kenwood can't beat an Elecraft in a tough contesting situation? Think again. c. The months ahead will likely treat us to much advertising spin. I think what this all really means is that it comes down to the operator, not the radio... which is the whole reason for WRTC in the first place. To a point. Supposing the WRTC could be done all over again but the winning team were given the TS-590S radios instead of the Icoms, would they still win? Of course, that is impossible to answer, but I will note that no one showed up with an HW-101! 73, Nate N0NB -- The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true. Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
Yeah, it all depends on how you look at it. Back in the 2010 WRTC it was pretty much all Elecraft and Yeasu. Icom was there but not nearly as strong as this year. When I look over these results I think of the way the drivers finish in NASCAR races. You pretty much know who the top drivers are, but the exact order of finish remains to be seen. And this is strongly affected by luck in a lot of cases. I think the same here. The top 20 or 25 teams are all excellent ops with excellent rigs. But who snags a few rare multipliers is often more luck than skill. Gotta be in the right spot at the right time. I note that the Russian team that won in '10 finished 16th this time around. A very respectable showing, but no longer 1st. 73 de dave ab9ca/4 On 7/24/14 2:15 PM, Al Lorona wrote: This is very interesting. I've been thinking of all the ways you could spin this data other than simply counting radios. For example, Icom could say, Five out of the top six winning radios were Icoms. Yaesu could say, When Elecraft owner Martti Laine needed a top performer for WRTC... he reached for his Yaesu!, Kenwood could say, Think a Kenwood can't beat an Elecraft in a tough contesting situation? Think again. c. I think what this all really means is that it comes down to the operator, not the radio... which is the whole reason for WRTC in the first place. Al W6LX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to ho13d...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] WRTC 2014 - Congratulations, Elecraft!...(and firmware update)
Yes, very interesting, and I think most of the credit goes to the operators, rather than the radios. However, the fact that a very large percentage of these top operators *choose* to use the Elecraft K3 does say a lot about the desirability of the K3 for contesting. Whether that be because of the weight, or because of the performance and operating interface, you would probably have to ask each K3 operator about his choice. 73, Don W3FPR On 7/24/2014 3:15 PM, Al Lorona wrote: This is very interesting. I've been thinking of all the ways you could spin this data other than simply counting radios. For example, Icom could say, Five out of the top six winning radios were Icoms. Yaesu could say, When Elecraft owner Martti Laine needed a top performer for WRTC... he reached for his Yaesu!, Kenwood could say, Think a Kenwood can't beat an Elecraft in a tough contesting situation? Think again. c. I think what this all really means is that it comes down to the operator, not the radio... which is the whole reason for WRTC in the first place. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
