Re: [Elecraft] Wait For The K4 Direct RF Sampled SDR?
Yes this is sad being that the 3000 was supposed to have the same receiver as the 5000 and it did not in fact nowhere near it. I'm of that yahoo group as well as the 5000 and finally after seeing the QST numbers they told the story of what I had been hearing. But they all were saying was how great they were, then I showed them a comparison between base model K3/100 no options and the 3000 at $500 more and less radio. All they can say in reply usually is they wanted a big radio without a lot of menu's well I hate to tell them but the 3000 has a bunch also. 73,Fred/N0AZZ K3 Ser #'s 6730/5299--KX3 # 2573--K2/100--KAT/100 P3/SVGA--KPA500--KAT500--W2 -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Wayne Burdick Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 8:02 PM To: Rick Stealey Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Wait For The K4 Direct RF Sampled SDR? Rick Stealey wrote: Speaking of competitive rigs, I see QST just reviewed the FT3000. The number that caught my eye (well actually the chart) was composit noise. A whopping -120 dbc at 10 KHz and beyond ! Yikes. The K3 was -140 dbc at 10 KHz and -155 at 100 KHz. Just to clarify for those who aren't used to hearing these numbers, -140 dBc phase noise is significantly better than -120 dBc. It could mean the difference between having two transceivers coexist or not when in close proximity -- hence Rick's example of Field Day. 73, Wayne N6KR You sure don't want one of those noise generators at your next Field Day. If someone shows up with one, put him on 10 meters at the far end of the field. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 2641/6180 - Release Date: 03/15/13 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 2641/6180 - Release Date: 03/15/13 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Wait For The K4 Direct RF Sampled SDR?
Did you notice the reported 6M sensitivity number? 1.25 microvolt compared to 0.16 microvolt on 1.8-30MHz. This may be a misprint as the MDS values are close to the same. 73 de Brian/K3KO On 3/16/2013 03:09, David Gilbert wrote: The transmit IMD specs are pretty poor as well ... and the interesting thing is that neither deficiency was even discussed in the narrative portion of the review. 73, Dave AB7E On 3/15/2013 5:30 PM, Rick Stealey wrote: Speaking of competitive rigs, I see QST just reviewed the FT3000. The number that caught my eye (well actually the chart) was composit noise. A whopping -120 dbc at 10 KHz and beyond ! Yikes. The K3 was -140 dbc at 10 KHz abd -155 at 100 KHz. You sure don't want one of those noise generators at your next Field Day. If someone shows up with one, put him on 10 meters at the far end of the field. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2240 / Virus Database: 2641/5677 - Release Date: 03/15/13 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2240 / Virus Database: 2641/5680 - Release Date: 03/15/13 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Wait For The K4 Direct RF Sampled SDR?
Speaking of competitive rigs, I see QST just reviewed the FT3000. The number that caught my eye (well actually the chart) was composit noise. A whopping -120 dbc at 10 KHz and beyond ! Yikes. The K3 was -140 dbc at 10 KHz abd -155 at 100 KHz. You sure don't want one of those noise generators at your next Field Day. If someone shows up with one, put him on 10 meters at the far end of the field. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Wait For The K4 Direct RF Sampled SDR?
Rick Stealey wrote: Speaking of competitive rigs, I see QST just reviewed the FT3000. The number that caught my eye (well actually the chart) was composit noise. A whopping -120 dbc at 10 KHz and beyond ! Yikes. The K3 was -140 dbc at 10 KHz and -155 at 100 KHz. Just to clarify for those who aren't used to hearing these numbers, -140 dBc phase noise is significantly better than -120 dBc. It could mean the difference between having two transceivers coexist or not when in close proximity -- hence Rick's example of Field Day. 73, Wayne N6KR You sure don't want one of those noise generators at your next Field Day. If someone shows up with one, put him on 10 meters at the far end of the field. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Wait For The K4 Direct RF Sampled SDR?
CW looked a little clicky, too. On 3/15/2013 6:01 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: Rick Stealey wrote: Speaking of competitive rigs, I see QST just reviewed the FT3000. The number that caught my eye (well actually the chart) was composit noise. A whopping -120 dbc at 10 KHz and beyond ! Yikes. The K3 was -140 dbc at 10 KHz and -155 at 100 KHz. Just to clarify for those who aren't used to hearing these numbers, -140 dBc phase noise is significantly better than -120 dBc. It could mean the difference between having two transceivers coexist or not when in close proximity -- hence Rick's example of Field Day. 73, Wayne N6KR You sure don't want one of those noise generators at your next Field Day. If someone shows up with one, put him on 10 meters at the far end of the field. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Wait For The K4 Direct RF Sampled SDR?
The transmit IMD specs are pretty poor as well ... and the interesting thing is that neither deficiency was even discussed in the narrative portion of the review. 73, Dave AB7E On 3/15/2013 5:30 PM, Rick Stealey wrote: Speaking of competitive rigs, I see QST just reviewed the FT3000. The number that caught my eye (well actually the chart) was composit noise. A whopping -120 dbc at 10 KHz and beyond ! Yikes. The K3 was -140 dbc at 10 KHz abd -155 at 100 KHz. You sure don't want one of those noise generators at your next Field Day. If someone shows up with one, put him on 10 meters at the far end of the field. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Wait For The K4 Direct RF Sampled SDR?
Hi all, I would like to comments about Jan K1ND and Mike W5FTD messages. 1) Looking/waiting for a K4 SDR new project by Elecraft. Wayne, N6KR, has given the official reply No K4 but possible K3 improvements. 2) Why not a K2A SDR true kit ? 1) The K3 is already an SDR radio, having the DSP and its software replacing the classic hadware stages dedicated to demodulation, audio filtering and analog agc. Elecraft have obviated to the use of a dedicated PC, their main interest is the hardware they produce at best and not a PC producer. If a customer has a problem with an advanced SDR radio and is not in the condition to understand where the problem is he will have to discuss with at least two hardware manufacturers, the radio one and the PC one... plus a software company if the software is of a third party. As Wayne has expressed, a radio, particularly for the HF bands, needs a very strong front-end and the blocking range is still quite different between the two technologies sdr sampling still needs components improvement. Also, a powerfull PC is required to be able to run all those interesting software routines and displays, plus the reduction of delay audio output, critical in CW operations. 2) Elecraft has delievred a very nice SDR transceiver, the KX3, that is simple and can run stand alone or be attached to a PC. I believe Elecraft cannot invest anymore on an SDR or true kit product. They will not be able to cover their investment. Any new product will have to be an SMD assembly, as standard components are disappearing or are becoming very expensive. The main question for a true kit is ... How many people will be in the condition of building a radio from a kit versus how many people will be ready to purchase an assembled radio? Over a potential market of 10,000 hams, let say for a K2A, how many will purchase a professional SMD kit? Probably between 100 to 1000? Elecraft will never recuperate their investment, while serving 9,000 to 9,900 customers they could have a good return and be able to invest on a new product later on. The K2 was a different story, Elecraft could afford the sale of 1000 kits- Today, there is not much hardware available as a kit to make those solder iron smokers to enjoy themselves (I am one of these) ... SoftRock ensemble RXTX probably the more suitable for those interested on SDR transceiver kit. I maybe wrong ... Best 73 Gian I7SWX Message: 10 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 14:16:12 -0400 From: Jan k...@comcast.net To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] SDR with the K4 Message-ID: 5140c26c.7020...@comcast.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed SDR is NICE I'm willing to wait and let the ELECRAFT engineers work out their next product, K4 or whatever mountain they name it after . . . In the meantime I have been comparing the Elecraft KX3 with I/Q to the Edirol FA-66 sound-card running NaP3 software with my Genesis G59 MK3 sdr-kit transceiver, [assembled 1.5 years ago] with the same sound-card and software Genesis/Power-SDR AND do like the sdr-filtering better. Regards, Jan K1ND -- Message: 11 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:18:50 -0500 From: Michael Poteet mcpot...@gmail.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net elecraft@mailman.qth.net, Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Wait For The K4 Direct RF Sampled SDR? Message-ID: 2013313131850.399125@Sittingroom Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Maybe not a K4 but why not a K2A? Not to do a Flex 6000 or whatever but is there a way to replace the current mixer, direct conversion design with an (older, cheaper) direct sampling config? And leave most of the remainder of the design in place. Be a chance to explore some new tech and Elecraft could still keep most of the radio a true kit. Mike W5FTD No need to speculate. There is no such project underway at Elecraft. Direct RF-sampling receivers, for all their technology, still lag well behind the K3 in blocking dynamic range, and probably will continue to for years to come. We're quite happy with our superhet architecture. Also, any advancement we make to the K3 will be retrofittable to existing K3s, so your investment is safe. 73, Wayne N6KR l __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Wait For The K4 Direct RF Sampled SDR?
I love my K3/P3/SVGA and my KX3 as well. I do want to mention that the new Flex 6000 series uses a 16-bit A/D, with over 245Ms/s sample clock, much better than 100Ms/s. Processing gain is real, and should help the 16-bit range somewhat, but 16-bits is not really 16-bits in the real world. Throw away at least 1/2 bit, and maybe more. It will be very interesting to see what a Flex 6000 series finally does in various receive parameters, especially dynamic range. They claim to handle a very large dynamic range, even without the various RF filters. I can't wait to see the Sherwood report on the 6000 series. 73, Terry, WB4JFI -Original Message- From: Barry LaZar Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 10:13 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Wait For The K4 Direct RF Sampled SDR? I'm sort of curious about what Flex is doing with their new radio. The heart of it has to be a very good A/D converter, but the best thing I'm aware of is an Analog Devices 16 bit, 100 Msp/s one that ain't exactly cheap. To approach the dynamic range in the KX3 and the K3, 16 bits may be a might short. I, too, believe that direct sampling and high dynamic range is still a bit off particularly if you want to be able to afford one. I like the magic of my KX3 when used with NaP3 and a 24 bit, ASIO compliant sound card. As a practical matter, it serves for the 95% situations. those last five will include a lightning storm over my house or someone like W3LPL moving next door. 73, Barry K3NDM On 3/13/2013 9:49 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote: No need to speculate. There is no such project underway at Elecraft. Direct RF-sampling receivers, for all their technology, still lag well behind the K3 in blocking dynamic range, and probably will continue to for years to come. We're quite happy with our superhet architecture. Also, any advancement we make to the K3 will be retrofittable to existing K3s, so your investment is safe. 73, Wayne N6KR On Mar 12, 2013, at 8:04 PM, Bob Schumacher wrote: Given the advances in direct RF sampled SDRs (currently available QS1R, soon to be released Flex-6000, etc.), Elecraft must be quietly working on on an RF sampled K4 SDR. Maybe we will see an anouncement in May at Dayton? I am wondering if I should take the leap with the Flex or wait for Elecraft? I suspect that Elecraft will provide a higher value solution. Any speculation on this point by Elecraft fans? Thanks, W9DBR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Wait For The K4 Direct RF Sampled SDR?
I can't wait to see the Sherwood report on the 6000 series. Yes, it will be interesting. I hope Rob can do some notched noise power testing to see just how well the performance holds up with real world receive power levels when the receiver is operated in its multi-band mode (separate, simultaneous receiver windows in multiple octaves). 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 3/14/2013 5:03 PM, wb4...@knology.net wrote: I love my K3/P3/SVGA and my KX3 as well. I do want to mention that the new Flex 6000 series uses a 16-bit A/D, with over 245Ms/s sample clock, much better than 100Ms/s. Processing gain is real, and should help the 16-bit range somewhat, but 16-bits is not really 16-bits in the real world. Throw away at least 1/2 bit, and maybe more. It will be very interesting to see what a Flex 6000 series finally does in various receive parameters, especially dynamic range. They claim to handle a very large dynamic range, even without the various RF filters. I can't wait to see the Sherwood report on the 6000 series. 73, Terry, WB4JFI -Original Message- From: Barry LaZar Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 10:13 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Wait For The K4 Direct RF Sampled SDR? I'm sort of curious about what Flex is doing with their new radio. The heart of it has to be a very good A/D converter, but the best thing I'm aware of is an Analog Devices 16 bit, 100 Msp/s one that ain't exactly cheap. To approach the dynamic range in the KX3 and the K3, 16 bits may be a might short. I, too, believe that direct sampling and high dynamic range is still a bit off particularly if you want to be able to afford one. I like the magic of my KX3 when used with NaP3 and a 24 bit, ASIO compliant sound card. As a practical matter, it serves for the 95% situations. those last five will include a lightning storm over my house or someone like W3LPL moving next door. 73, Barry K3NDM On 3/13/2013 9:49 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote: No need to speculate. There is no such project underway at Elecraft. Direct RF-sampling receivers, for all their technology, still lag well behind the K3 in blocking dynamic range, and probably will continue to for years to come. We're quite happy with our superhet architecture. Also, any advancement we make to the K3 will be retrofittable to existing K3s, so your investment is safe. 73, Wayne N6KR On Mar 12, 2013, at 8:04 PM, Bob Schumacher wrote: Given the advances in direct RF sampled SDRs (currently available QS1R, soon to be released Flex-6000, etc.), Elecraft must be quietly working on on an RF sampled K4 SDR. Maybe we will see an anouncement in May at Dayton? I am wondering if I should take the leap with the Flex or wait for Elecraft? I suspect that Elecraft will provide a higher value solution. Any speculation on this point by Elecraft fans? Thanks, W9DBR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Wait For The K4 Direct RF Sampled SDR?
If it ran on Linux i would be confident but running in a Windows environment is a concern for me. The annual licence fee is also a concern for me. I guess we wait and see. Gary Vk1ZZ K3, KX3, KPA500, KAT500,P3. On 15/03/2013 7:24 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com wrote: I can't wait to see the Sherwood report on the 6000 series. Yes, it will be interesting. I hope Rob can do some notched noise power testing to see just how well the performance holds up with real world receive power levels when the receiver is operated in its multi-band mode (separate, simultaneous receiver windows in multiple octaves). 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 3/14/2013 5:03 PM, wb4...@knology.net wrote: I love my K3/P3/SVGA and my KX3 as well. I do want to mention that the new Flex 6000 series uses a 16-bit A/D, with over 245Ms/s sample clock, much better than 100Ms/s. Processing gain is real, and should help the 16-bit range somewhat, but 16-bits is not really 16-bits in the real world. Throw away at least 1/2 bit, and maybe more. It will be very interesting to see what a Flex 6000 series finally does in various receive parameters, especially dynamic range. They claim to handle a very large dynamic range, even without the various RF filters. I can't wait to see the Sherwood report on the 6000 series. 73, Terry, WB4JFI -Original Message- From: Barry LaZar Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 10:13 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Wait For The K4 Direct RF Sampled SDR? I'm sort of curious about what Flex is doing with their new radio. The heart of it has to be a very good A/D converter, but the best thing I'm aware of is an Analog Devices 16 bit, 100 Msp/s one that ain't exactly cheap. To approach the dynamic range in the KX3 and the K3, 16 bits may be a might short. I, too, believe that direct sampling and high dynamic range is still a bit off particularly if you want to be able to afford one. I like the magic of my KX3 when used with NaP3 and a 24 bit, ASIO compliant sound card. As a practical matter, it serves for the 95% situations. those last five will include a lightning storm over my house or someone like W3LPL moving next door. 73, Barry K3NDM On 3/13/2013 9:49 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote: No need to speculate. There is no such project underway at Elecraft. Direct RF-sampling receivers, for all their technology, still lag well behind the K3 in blocking dynamic range, and probably will continue to for years to come. We're quite happy with our superhet architecture. Also, any advancement we make to the K3 will be retrofittable to existing K3s, so your investment is safe. 73, Wayne N6KR On Mar 12, 2013, at 8:04 PM, Bob Schumacher wrote: Given the advances in direct RF sampled SDRs (currently available QS1R, soon to be released Flex-6000, etc.), Elecraft must be quietly working on on an RF sampled K4 SDR. Maybe we will see an anouncement in May at Dayton? I am wondering if I should take the leap with the Flex or wait for Elecraft? I suspect that Elecraft will provide a higher value solution. Any speculation on this point by Elecraft fans? Thanks, W9DBR __**__**__ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/**mailman/listinfo/elecrafthttp://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.**htmhttp://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:elecr...@mailman.qth.**net Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __**__**__ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/**mailman/listinfo/elecrafthttp://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.**htmhttp://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:elecr...@mailman.qth.**net Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __**__**__ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/**mailman/listinfo/elecrafthttp://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.**htmhttp://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:elecr...@mailman.qth.**net Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __**__**__ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/**mailman/listinfo/elecrafthttp://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.**htmhttp://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:elecr...@mailman.qth.**net Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Wait For The K4 Direct RF Sampled SDR?
I suspected that was the case. I'm a little out of being current, but S/N on some of the devices I remember were not that great as compared to the better sound cards. 16 bits, ideally should allow 96 db dynamic range. However, you are correct, you don't get the full 16 bits. The oversampling and processing does buy you improvement, but you still need to contend with the 16 bits of quantization and the need to put some amplification ahead of the A/D to improve SNR. That gain should negatively impact on dynamic range. I, too, am waiting to see what Sherwood has to say. It should be interesting. I do know this. Operating FD last year with a K3 and a KX3 using QRP power and from the same RV. The only problem we had was my KX3 LO being picked up by the K3. I forgot to turn on the isolation amplifier. Other than that, there was no problem. In the chaos of Field Day, the filtering appeared to be superb. 73, Barry K3NDM - Original Message - From: wb4...@knology.net To: Barry LaZar k3...@comcast.net, elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 5:03:30 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Wait For The K4 Direct RF Sampled SDR? I love my K3/P3/SVGA and my KX3 as well. I do want to mention that the new Flex 6000 series uses a 16-bit A/D, with over 245Ms/s sample clock, much better than 100Ms/s. Processing gain is real, and should help the 16-bit range somewhat, but 16-bits is not really 16-bits in the real world. Throw away at least 1/2 bit, and maybe more. It will be very interesting to see what a Flex 6000 series finally does in various receive parameters, especially dynamic range. They claim to handle a very large dynamic range, even without the various RF filters. I can't wait to see the Sherwood report on the 6000 series. 73, Terry, WB4JFI -Original Message- From: Barry LaZar Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 10:13 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Wait For The K4 Direct RF Sampled SDR? I'm sort of curious about what Flex is doing with their new radio. The heart of it has to be a very good A/D converter, but the best thing I'm aware of is an Analog Devices 16 bit, 100 Msp/s one that ain't exactly cheap. To approach the dynamic range in the KX3 and the K3, 16 bits may be a might short. I, too, believe that direct sampling and high dynamic range is still a bit off particularly if you want to be able to afford one. I like the magic of my KX3 when used with NaP3 and a 24 bit, ASIO compliant sound card. As a practical matter, it serves for the 95% situations. those last five will include a lightning storm over my house or someone like W3LPL moving next door. 73, Barry K3NDM On 3/13/2013 9:49 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote: No need to speculate. There is no such project underway at Elecraft. Direct RF-sampling receivers, for all their technology, still lag well behind the K3 in blocking dynamic range, and probably will continue to for years to come. We're quite happy with our superhet architecture. Also, any advancement we make to the K3 will be retrofittable to existing K3s, so your investment is safe. 73, Wayne N6KR On Mar 12, 2013, at 8:04 PM, Bob Schumacher wrote: Given the advances in direct RF sampled SDRs (currently available QS1R, soon to be released Flex-6000, etc.), Elecraft must be quietly working on on an RF sampled K4 SDR. Maybe we will see an anouncement in May at Dayton? I am wondering if I should take the leap with the Flex or wait for Elecraft? I suspect that Elecraft will provide a higher value solution. Any speculation on this point by Elecraft fans? Thanks, W9DBR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list
Re: [Elecraft] Wait For The K4 Direct RF Sampled SDR?
Glad to hear it Wayne I cant say that there is much more I want in a radio that the K3 or the K line can't offer now. Mind you if there are some cool toys coming for the K3... well new toys are always fun! David Moes dm...@nexicom.net VE3DVY On 3/13/2013 9:49 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote: No need to speculate. There is no such project underway at Elecraft. Direct RF-sampling receivers, for all their technology, still lag well behind the K3 in blocking dynamic range, and probably will continue to for years to come. We're quite happy with our superhet architecture. Also, any advancement we make to the K3 will be retrofittable to existing K3s, so your investment is safe. 73, Wayne N6KR On Mar 12, 2013, at 8:04 PM, Bob Schumacher wrote: Given the advances in direct RF sampled SDRs (currently available QS1R, soon to be released Flex-6000, etc.), Elecraft must be quietly working on on an RF sampled K4 SDR. Maybe we will see an anouncement in May at Dayton? I am wondering if I should take the leap with the Flex or wait for Elecraft? I suspect that Elecraft will provide a higher value solution. Any speculation on this point by Elecraft fans? Thanks, W9DBR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Wait For The K4 Direct RF Sampled SDR?
If you are waiting to see what the Flex 6000 is like you might take a look at the Apache-Labs ANAN-10 or ANAN-100d. The advantages: - software is free forever. - different versions of software are available for both windows and linux. - source code and hardware schematics are available. - it is actually available. My in-the-shack evaluation (without test equipment) is: - KX3 and ANAN-10 receive performance is equal (excellent). - both are better than my Kenwood TS-480 (no surprise). - panadapter on ANAN-10 is quite a bit better than NaP3, but NaP3 is good enough for my operating style. - ANAN-10 requires a computer (only required for KX3 NaP3 panadapter). - KX3 is the 'only' choice for backpacking or portable. - ANAN-10 will receive on two or more different bands at the same time. If this is important I'd choose either the ANAN or a loaded K3. If I had to choose for a home station I'd pick (barely) the KX3. Of course for quite a bit more $ my first choice would be a loaded K3 and large screen panadapter. g. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Wait For The K4 Direct RF Sampled SDR?
No need to speculate. There is no such project underway at Elecraft. Direct RF-sampling receivers, for all their technology, still lag well behind the K3 in blocking dynamic range, and probably will continue to for years to come. We're quite happy with our superhet architecture. Also, any advancement we make to the K3 will be retrofittable to existing K3s, so your investment is safe. 73, Wayne N6KR On Mar 12, 2013, at 8:04 PM, Bob Schumacher wrote: Given the advances in direct RF sampled SDRs (currently available QS1R, soon to be released Flex-6000, etc.), Elecraft must be quietly working on on an RF sampled K4 SDR. Maybe we will see an anouncement in May at Dayton? I am wondering if I should take the leap with the Flex or wait for Elecraft? I suspect that Elecraft will provide a higher value solution. Any speculation on this point by Elecraft fans? Thanks, W9DBR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Wait For The K4 Direct RF Sampled SDR?
I'm sort of curious about what Flex is doing with their new radio. The heart of it has to be a very good A/D converter, but the best thing I'm aware of is an Analog Devices 16 bit, 100 Msp/s one that ain't exactly cheap. To approach the dynamic range in the KX3 and the K3, 16 bits may be a might short. I, too, believe that direct sampling and high dynamic range is still a bit off particularly if you want to be able to afford one. I like the magic of my KX3 when used with NaP3 and a 24 bit, ASIO compliant sound card. As a practical matter, it serves for the 95% situations. those last five will include a lightning storm over my house or someone like W3LPL moving next door. 73, Barry K3NDM On 3/13/2013 9:49 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote: No need to speculate. There is no such project underway at Elecraft. Direct RF-sampling receivers, for all their technology, still lag well behind the K3 in blocking dynamic range, and probably will continue to for years to come. We're quite happy with our superhet architecture. Also, any advancement we make to the K3 will be retrofittable to existing K3s, so your investment is safe. 73, Wayne N6KR On Mar 12, 2013, at 8:04 PM, Bob Schumacher wrote: Given the advances in direct RF sampled SDRs (currently available QS1R, soon to be released Flex-6000, etc.), Elecraft must be quietly working on on an RF sampled K4 SDR. Maybe we will see an anouncement in May at Dayton? I am wondering if I should take the leap with the Flex or wait for Elecraft? I suspect that Elecraft will provide a higher value solution. Any speculation on this point by Elecraft fans? Thanks, W9DBR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Wait For The K4 Direct RF Sampled SDR?
those last five will include a lightning storm over my house or someone like W3LPL moving next door. Been there, done that! 1) Antenna struck by lightning while radio was on. Can you say bye-bye antenna, coax, radio, power supply, computer, monitor, rig interface, etc.? 2) Lived next door to Jim Lawson's (W2PV) super-station in Schenectady, New York. When he was on the air, you could hold a 4 foot long florescent lamp in your hand and walk in my side-yard and it would flash along with the CW. Kept me off the air most weekends. These days I'm pretty sure that my K3 would survive #2. 73, Bob, WB4SON __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Wait For The K4 Direct RF Sampled SDR?
Maybe not a K4 but why not a K2A? Not to do a Flex 6000 or whatever but is there a way to replace the current mixer, direct conversion design with an (older, cheaper) direct sampling config? And leave most of the remainder of the design in place. Be a chance to explore some new tech and Elecraft could still keep most of the radio a true kit. Mike W5FTD No need to speculate. There is no such project underway at Elecraft. Direct RF-sampling receivers, for all their technology, still lag well behind the K3 in blocking dynamic range, and probably will continue to for years to come. We're quite happy with our superhet architecture. Also, any advancement we make to the K3 will be retrofittable to existing K3s, so your investment is safe. 73, Wayne N6KR l __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Wait For The K4 Direct RF Sampled SDR?
Given the advances in direct RF sampled SDRs (currently available QS1R, soon to be released Flex-6000, etc.), Elecraft must be quietly working on on an RF sampled K4 SDR. Maybe we will see an anouncement in May at Dayton? I am wondering if I should take the leap with the Flex or wait for Elecraft? I suspect that Elecraft will provide a higher value solution. Any speculation on this point by Elecraft fans? Thanks, W9DBR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Wait For The K4 Direct RF Sampled SDR?
Speculation..? Visalia, not Dayton. I think I like the idea of a variable page, touch screen interface. .not sure about how successful such an implementation might be. Dick - KA5KKT _ Given the advances in direct RF sampled SDRs (currently available QS1R, soon to be released Flex-6000, etc.), Elecraft must be quietly working on on an RF sampled K4 SDR. Maybe we will see an anouncement in May at Dayton? I am wondering if I should take the leap with the Flex or wait for Elecraft? I suspect that Elecraft will provide a higher value solution. Any speculation on this point by Elecraft fans? Thanks, W9DBR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Wait For The K4 Direct RF Sampled SDR?
But will it make my coffee? 74 Gary Sent from my Galaxy SIII On 13/03/2013 2:16 PM, Edward Dickinson III softb...@windstream.net wrote: Speculation..? Visalia, not Dayton. I think I like the idea of a variable page, touch screen interface. .not sure about how successful such an implementation might be. Dick - KA5KKT _ Given the advances in direct RF sampled SDRs (currently available QS1R, soon to be released Flex-6000, etc.), Elecraft must be quietly working on on an RF sampled K4 SDR. Maybe we will see an anouncement in May at Dayton? I am wondering if I should take the leap with the Flex or wait for Elecraft? I suspect that Elecraft will provide a higher value solution. Any speculation on this point by Elecraft fans? Thanks, W9DBR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
