Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
If there is a connection which is heating that much, one has more issues than molten solder to be resolved. 73 Bob, K4TAX K3S s/n 10,163 On 8/23/2015 12:37 PM, bs usb wrote: Kenneth Talbott wrote: Never solder PSU connectors - overcurrent can heat the joint and drop molten solder where you least desire it! Ken - ke4rg I thought the fuses were protection against over current conditions. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to rmcg...@blomand.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
Kenneth Talbott wrote: Never solder PSU connectors - overcurrent can heat the joint and drop molten solder where you least desire it! Ken - ke4rg I thought the fuses were protection against over current conditions. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
Never solder PSU connectors - overcurrent can heat the joint and drop molten solder where you least desire it! Ken - ke4rg -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of aj4tf Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 1:41 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX Bob, Crimped connections are superior to soldered connections in a high vibration, high stress environment. The solder will fracture after exposure to vibration and/or temperature cycles. With a proper crimp tool (not the one from Harbor Freight!) the resistance of a proper crimped connection will be no higher than that of a soldered connection. The TE/Amp PROIII hand crimp tool is $213 at Digikey...The Amphenol hex die crimper for RG-8, RG213, etc. is $112. But, soldered connections are fine for a ham shack. de AJ4TF __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
What would be a normal value on the FP voltage display when tx at 100W, using factory fused cables? No sub installed. PS is Astron VS-35M linear, voltage set at 13.9 idling per FP display. drops to 11.1 on TX. Current varies but up to 15.5A indicated. Specs call for 17-22A tx @100W. I suspect bad pass transistor and/or high drop over fuses, but want to establish normal indication for tx drop. 11.1v seems way out. tnx in advance -- de AB1VL NAQCC #6799 ab1vl.com I know it's a late reply but I too experienced similar (large) voltage drops with my first K3. (Serial number in the 4000's and with all options but the KRX3) It turns out it had dry joints on the main power input connectors on its motherboard. (In fact, It had NO SOLDER AT ALL on the connections between the Anderson plugs and the motherboard.) They were found by its second owner when they investigated the low voltage issues. I had been grumbling about the voltage drop on here ever for some time after I purchased the factory built K3 only to get the "It must be the leads" claptrap all the time from folks on this reflector. I almost didn't buy my second K3 because of it, I wasn't a happy camper to say the least. One of these days I will update my current K3, but I supposed I better figure out how to turn it on, it's been over 12 months since I've used it. :D - Jeff Cochrane - VK4XA Innisfail, QLD, Australia. K3 #4767 -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/normal-K3-voltage-drop-on-TX-tp7606504p7606608.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
Lets end the thread at this time in the interest of reducing list overload for others. 73, Eric List Moderator, from time to time.. elecraft.com _..._ > On Aug 23, 2015, at 1:41 AM, aj4tf wrote: > > Bob, > Crimped connections are superior to soldered connections in a high > vibration, high stress environment. > The solder will fracture after exposure to vibration and/or temperature > cycles. With a proper crimp tool > (not the one from Harbor Freight!) the resistance of a proper crimped > connection will be no higher than > that of a soldered connection. The TE/Amp PROIII hand crimp tool is $213 > at Digikey...The Amphenol > hex die crimper for RG-8, RG213, etc. is $112. > > But, soldered connections are fine for a ham shack. > > de AJ4TF > > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/normal-K3-voltage-drop-on-TX-tp7606504p7606603.html > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to eric.swa...@elecraft.com > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
Bob, Crimped connections are superior to soldered connections in a high vibration, high stress environment. The solder will fracture after exposure to vibration and/or temperature cycles. With a proper crimp tool (not the one from Harbor Freight!) the resistance of a proper crimped connection will be no higher than that of a soldered connection. The TE/Amp PROIII hand crimp tool is $213 at Digikey...The Amphenol hex die crimper for RG-8, RG213, etc. is $112. But, soldered connections are fine for a ham shack. de AJ4TF -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/normal-K3-voltage-drop-on-TX-tp7606504p7606603.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
Nice NASA geek type reading on connections and such. I'm sure the
information is largely out of date but still has a ton of really good info.
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19750010203.pdf
-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Edward
R Cole
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2015 2:03 AM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
I agree with Bob, but as 45-years experience has taught me.
Properly crimped bright new copper wire is fine. Take a look several years
later (also compare contact resistance; probably best measured as voltage
drop under load). If you live in the desert where humidity never rises
above 25% you may not see any change. Put the same crimped connector
100-foot from salt water and less than three years it will turn green and
start to fail. Put on a boat with no sealant and the connector will fall
apart.
Solder the connector after crimping to that bright new copper wire and those
problems will be lessened. ON a boat only airtight sealant will ensure long
life. I find where I want to ensure lowest contact resistance soldering
after crimping works.
But if the wire is subject to repeated movement or vibrational forces the
soldered connection will break whereas crimp-only seems more resilient.
Spacecraft use crimped-only connectors (subject to high g-force vibration in
launch and extreme temperature variations). But then there is no air in
space and thus no moisture to corrode.
For ordinary shack wiring of a ham station crimp+ solder causes no harm. I
use it where ever I want to ensure the lowest voltage drop under load.
Most of those NAPA wire crimpers are a poor excuse for a real tool - but
probably what most of us use. My coax crimpers are properly racheting
crimpers and produce a good contact. Still I do not like them in situations
where the cable sees a lot of movement. Good old compression back nut
construction is best. I'm talking about N, BNC, TNC, sma, 7/16, etc.
PL-259's are used only if I have to.
73, Ed - KL7UW
--
From: Bob McGraw - K4TAX
To: Jerry Moore , elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
Message-ID: <55d7d678.80...@blomand.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Properly it must be crimped A N D soldered. Both are required.
Are you saying a crimped and soldered connection is worse than a crimped
only connection?
My military experience says there first must be a mechanical connection made
{crimp or wrap} and then follow with an electrical connection
{solder}. And RCA stipulated this practice in all of their broadcast
equipment.
73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10,163
73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
dubus...@gmail.com
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Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
Fair enough Tom :) , I've not had the pleasure of doing microwave other than fixing/troubleshooting radar (APS 180/APS 80). My Navy training didn't include soldering/crimping for radar other than cannon/other connections. It's been a long time and I don't recall the magnetron connection types as we generally would only replace crystals or the whole unit if there was an issue. I did get to change a waveguide and test it with a sweep cart once. That was a lot of fun. -Original Message- From: Chester Alderman [mailto:alderm...@windstream.net] Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 11:01 PM To: 'Jerry Moore'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: RE: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX You should be sure to NEVER say that around a microwave person! As long as you stay in HF, crimps may be OK. As a retired microwave circuit and systems design engineer, there will never be a crimped anything in my ham station. Saying 'crimped' is better than soldered is the same as saying you don't know what you are talking about! Just my opinion of course. 73, Tom - W4BQF -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jerry Moore Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 9:38 PM To: Bob McGraw - K4TAX; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX I respectfully disagree. A properly made crimp is superior to a soldered connection. The key word being properly made. If you don't have the correct tools to do a proper crimp then a good compromise is to solder the connection after crimping, however, that's only to comply with connection best practice to establish a good mechanical and electrical connection. A proper crimp serves to mechanically weld the conductors together. Jer, AE4PB K3S TBA his email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to alderm...@windstream.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
Guys, there may be new/better information out there, and I’m agreeable to be wrong. I just know that our Government spends millions/billions to over research everything. What follows is excerpts from the US Navy Electricity and Electronics Training Series, Module 4, Chapter and page is included as reference. The format of the reference: - 2-11 - The increased use of crimp-on terminals is due to the limitations of soldered terminals. The quality of soldered connections depends mostly upon the operator's skill. Other factors, such as temperature, flux, cleanliness, oxides, and insulation damage due to heat, also add to defective connections. Solder-type connections are covered later in this chapter. An advantage of the crimp-on solderless terminal lugs is that they require relatively little operator skill to use. Another advantage is that the only tool needed is the crimping tool. This allows terminal lugs to be applied with a minimum of time and effort. The connections are made rapidly, are clean, and uniform in construction. Because of the pressures exerted and the material used, the crimped connection or splice, properly made, is both mechanically and electrically sound. My comments: I wasn’t able to find the “limitations of soldered terminals” listed. My best guess is that the limits are more based on correct process/skill at the onset to prevent cold joints AND loss of wire flexibility near the connection. The loss of flexibility potentially being more susceptible to weakening/breaks due to vibration – conjecture on my part. 2-24 - Do not tin wires that are to be crimped to solderless terminals or splices. I found a source for the modules online - http://jacquesricher.com/NEETS/ Jerry Moore AE4PB, K3S soon __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
I agree with Bob, but as 45-years experience has taught me.
Properly crimped bright new copper wire is fine. Take a look several
years later (also compare contact resistance; probably best measured
as voltage drop under load). If you live in the desert where
humidity never rises above 25% you may not see any change. Put the
same crimped connector 100-foot from salt water and less than three
years it will turn green and start to fail. Put on a boat with no
sealant and the connector will fall apart.
Solder the connector after crimping to that bright new copper wire
and those problems will be lessened. ON a boat only airtight sealant
will ensure long life. I find where I want to ensure lowest contact
resistance soldering after crimping works.
But if the wire is subject to repeated movement or vibrational forces
the soldered connection will break whereas crimp-only seems more
resilient. Spacecraft use crimped-only connectors (subject to high
g-force vibration in launch and extreme temperature variations). But
then there is no air in space and thus no moisture to corrode.
For ordinary shack wiring of a ham station crimp+ solder causes no
harm. I use it where ever I want to ensure the lowest voltage drop under load.
Most of those NAPA wire crimpers are a poor excuse for a real tool -
but probably what most of us use. My coax crimpers are properly
racheting crimpers and produce a good contact. Still I do not like
them in situations where the cable sees a lot of movement. Good old
compression back nut construction is best. I'm talking about N, BNC,
TNC, sma, 7/16, etc. PL-259's are used only if I have to.
73, Ed - KL7UW
--
From: Bob McGraw - K4TAX
To: Jerry Moore , elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
Message-ID: <55d7d678.80...@blomand.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Properly it must be crimped A N D soldered. Both are required.
Are you saying a crimped and soldered connection is worse than a crimped
only connection?
My military experience says there first must be a mechanical connection
made {crimp or wrap} and then follow with an electrical connection
{solder}. And RCA stipulated this practice in all of their broadcast
equipment.
73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10,163
73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
dubus...@gmail.com
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Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
Properly crimped, gas tight connection is superior to solder from DC to daylight. Just my opinion of course. Oh, and 40 years of experience. Ken - ke4rg When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ken G Kopp Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 11:16 PM To: Chester Alderman; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX Tom is correct ! OT Trivia: PL-259's and SO-239's were not designed to be 50 ohms and seldom are. Use them in impedence-critical situations ... phasing lines, power dividers, wattmeters, etc. ... at one's own peril. (;-) 73 Ken - K0PP On Aug 21, 2015 9:01 PM, "Chester Alderman" wrote: > You should be sure to NEVER say that around a microwave person! As > long as you stay in HF, crimps may be OK. As a retired microwave > circuit and systems design engineer, there will never be a crimped > anything in my ham station. > Saying 'crimped' is better than soldered is the same as saying you > don't know what you are talking about! Just my opinion of course. > > 73, > Tom - W4BQF > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
Tom is correct ! OT Trivia: PL-259's and SO-239's were not designed to be 50 ohms and seldom are. Use them in impedence-critical situations ... phasing lines, power dividers, wattmeters, etc. ... at one's own peril. (;-) 73 Ken - K0PP On Aug 21, 2015 9:01 PM, "Chester Alderman" wrote: > You should be sure to NEVER say that around a microwave person! As long as > you stay in HF, crimps may be OK. As a retired microwave circuit and > systems > design engineer, there will never be a crimped anything in my ham station. > Saying 'crimped' is better than soldered is the same as saying you don't > know what you are talking about! Just my opinion of course. > > 73, > Tom - W4BQF > > > > -Original Message- > From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of > Jerry > Moore > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 9:38 PM > To: Bob McGraw - K4TAX; elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX > > I respectfully disagree. A properly made crimp is superior to a soldered > connection. The key word being properly made. If you don't have the correct > tools to do a proper crimp then a good compromise is to solder the > connection after crimping, however, that's only to comply with connection > best practice to establish a good mechanical and electrical connection. A > proper crimp serves to mechanically weld the conductors together. > Jer, AE4PB > K3S TBA > > > > his email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to > alderm...@windstream.net > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to kengk...@gmail.com > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
You should be sure to NEVER say that around a microwave person! As long as you stay in HF, crimps may be OK. As a retired microwave circuit and systems design engineer, there will never be a crimped anything in my ham station. Saying 'crimped' is better than soldered is the same as saying you don't know what you are talking about! Just my opinion of course. 73, Tom - W4BQF -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jerry Moore Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 9:38 PM To: Bob McGraw - K4TAX; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX I respectfully disagree. A properly made crimp is superior to a soldered connection. The key word being properly made. If you don't have the correct tools to do a proper crimp then a good compromise is to solder the connection after crimping, however, that's only to comply with connection best practice to establish a good mechanical and electrical connection. A proper crimp serves to mechanically weld the conductors together. Jer, AE4PB K3S TBA his email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to alderm...@windstream.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
Properly it must be crimped A N D soldered. Both are required.
Are you saying a crimped and soldered connection is worse than a crimped
only connection?
My military experience says there first must be a mechanical connection
made {crimp or wrap} and then follow with an electrical connection
{solder}. And RCA stipulated this practice in all of their broadcast
equipment.
73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10,163
On 8/21/2015 8:38 PM, Jerry Moore wrote:
I respectfully disagree. A properly made crimp is superior to a
soldered connection. The key word being properly made. If you don't
have the correct tools to do a proper crimp then a good compromise is
to solder the connection after crimping, however, that's only to
comply with connection best practice to establish a good mechanical
and electrical connection. A proper crimp serves to mechanically weld
the conductors together.
Jer, AE4PB
K3S TBA
> On August 21, 2015 at 9:20 PM Bob McGraw - K4TAX
wrote:
>
>
> Malcolm brings up a very good point. All connections should be fitted
> with a proper lug which is crimped with a proper tool, depending on
wire
> size and the terminal to which it will be attached, AND all terminals
> should be soldered. I make no exceptions to this practice. The
> crimp connection is a mechanical connection, the soldering is the
> electrical connection.
>
> One additional point I've found to be most beneficial is to run a
> dedicated ground wire between the ground terminal on the radio to the
> ground terminal on the power supply. I do not rely on the DC negative
> to serve as ground between the radio and power supply.
>
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX
> K3S s/n 10,163
>
> On 8/21/2015 7:45 PM, Malcolm via Elecraft wrote:
> > Hi All
> >
> >
> > As a matter of standard practice all my crimp contact junctions
are soldered as well as being crimped using a good quality tool.
> >
> > I hope this note provides adequate guidance.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Malcolm
> > G0MIC
> >
> >
>
>
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
I respectfully disagree. A properly made crimp is superior to a soldered connection. The key word being properly made. If you don't have the correct tools to do a proper crimp then a good compromise is to solder the connection after crimping, however, that's only to comply with connection best practice to establish a good mechanical and electrical connection. A proper crimp serves to mechanically weld the conductors together. Jer, AE4PB K3S TBA > On August 21, 2015 at 9:20 PM Bob McGraw - K4TAX wrote: > > > Malcolm brings up a very good point. All connections should be fitted > with a proper lug which is crimped with a proper tool, depending on wire > size and the terminal to which it will be attached, AND all terminals > should be soldered. I make no exceptions to this practice. The > crimp connection is a mechanical connection, the soldering is the > electrical connection. > > One additional point I've found to be most beneficial is to run a > dedicated ground wire between the ground terminal on the radio to the > ground terminal on the power supply. I do not rely on the DC negative > to serve as ground between the radio and power supply. > > 73 > Bob, K4TAX > K3S s/n 10,163 > > On 8/21/2015 7:45 PM, Malcolm via Elecraft wrote: > > Hi All > > > > > > As a matter of standard practice all my crimp contact junctions are soldered > > as well as being crimped using a good quality tool. > > > > I hope this note provides adequate guidance. > > > > Regards > > > > Malcolm > > G0MIC > > > > > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to je...@carolinaheli.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
Malcolm brings up a very good point. All connections should be fitted with a proper lug which is crimped with a proper tool, depending on wire size and the terminal to which it will be attached, AND all terminals should be soldered.I make no exceptions to this practice.The crimp connection is a mechanical connection, the soldering is the electrical connection. One additional point I've found to be most beneficial is to run a dedicated ground wire between the ground terminal on the radio to the ground terminal on the power supply.I do not rely on the DC negative to serve as ground between the radio and power supply. 73 Bob, K4TAX K3S s/n 10,163 On 8/21/2015 7:45 PM, Malcolm via Elecraft wrote: Hi All As a matter of standard practice all my crimp contact junctions are soldered as well as being crimped using a good quality tool. I hope this note provides adequate guidance. Regards Malcolm G0MIC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
Hi All >From my time working in a Ham repair shop I can say that if a power supply >dipped by more than 0.25 Volts between RX and 100w TX AT THE TERMINALS ON THE >CASE OF THE POWER SUPPLY then that power supply wanted either replacement or >repair. I have just checked my own power supply for my K3 ( EP-925 or PS-30M badged linear PSU) and the voltage change (at the terminals on the case of the power supply) between RX and 100W TX is less than 70 milli-volts. This was measured using a both a Thurlby 1503HA (32000 count) or Fluke 8060A (4.5 digits) meters. The K3 is fed via 6 feet of 20 Amp cable and shows a voltage change between RX and 100w TX (on the K3 display) of no more than 0.6 Volts. There are no fuses in this lead but if there were I would allow an extra 0.1 volt per fuse giving a total of 0.8 volts. If the k3 showed a difference of 1 volt or more then that would be cause for immediate investigation. Put in its simplest form a voltage drop of 1 volt at 20 amps means that 20 watts of power is being wasted. In the example quoted by the original author we are seeing a drop of 3 volts at 17-.5 Amps a loss of over 50 watts (the equivalent of 4 Amps at 12.5 Volts)! Even the cheapest digital meters have a 200 milli-volt range and you can use this to measure the voltage drop across each junction in the wiring to find where the fault lies. I have cured many rigs that use the standard 6 pin connector of various problems simply by cleaning the power supply lead contacts throughout including the contacts between spade terminals and fuses and fuse holders and fuses. As a matter of standard practice all my crimp contact junctions are soldered as well as being crimped using a good quality tool. I hope this note provides adequate guidance. Regards Malcolm G0MIC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
On Fri,8/21/2015 11:52 AM, Richard S. Leary wrote: RX 13.9V @ 1.15A TX (100W CW)12.6V @ 19.62A Readings from K3 VFO "B" display of "V" and "A" The difference includes the IR drop in the red/black power cable between the power supply and the K3. Some quick arithmetic. #10 AWG is 1 milliOhm per foot. A 6 ft cable would be 12 m Ohms (two conductors), so .216V drop at 18A. With #12, it's .35 volts, .54 volts. Subtract the numbers for your cable (factoring in the length) from the difference, and that's the sag in power supply (and, of course, resistance internal to the K3). A better way to measure the sag in the PSU is with a digital voltmeter connected across it's output terminals. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
PS here is Astron RS-35M, connected directly to K3/100 #4497. Xmit into 50W dummy load RX 13.9V @ 1.15A TX (100W CW)12.6V @ 19.62A Readings from K3 VFO "B" display of "V" and "A" 73, Rick W7LKG -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of hb9brj Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 08:23 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX Same PS here, but a RigRunner 4005 in between PS and K3. RX 13.5V @ 1.26A TX (100W CW) 12.0V @ 17A This yields a resistance of 95mOhms which I consider ok. 73, Markus HB9BRJ -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/normal-K3-voltage-drop-on-TX-tp7606504p 7606507.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to w7...@comcast.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
On 8/21/2015 11:06 AM, Charles Yahrling wrote: What would be a normal value on the FP voltage display when tx at 100W, using factory fused cables? No sub installed. I don't know about "factory fused cables" since my factory cable does not have fuses. However, using the stock cable and an Astron RS-35A, My K3 reads 13.8V in receive, 12.9V in transmit with 17.9A for 105 W output into a dummy load on 20 meters. I would be very uncomfortable with an indicated 2V drop under load as that indicates more than 0.1 Ohm of resistance in connectors, fuses and cable. What voltage does the RS-35M front panel meter show under load? If it also sags, your problem could be pass transistor or internal connections (e.g. loose screws on the filter capacitor). If it is steady, your problem is in the cable/fuses/etc. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 8/21/2015 11:06 AM, Charles Yahrling wrote: What would be a normal value on the FP voltage display when tx at 100W, using factory fused cables? No sub installed. PS is Astron VS-35M linear, voltage set at 13.9 idling per FP display. drops to 11.1 on TX. Current varies but up to 15.5A indicated. Specs call for 17-22A tx @100W. I suspect bad pass transistor and/or high drop over fuses, but want to establish normal indication for tx drop. 11.1v seems way out. tnx in advance __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
Charles, at 100w into a dummy loadI see a .8 volt drop from 13.8 vdc on a switching supply, and 17.5 amps. I think it may be time for me to clean some contacts, too. The fuse holders are always good suspects. 73, W4FMD On 8/21/2015 11:06 AM, Charles Yahrling wrote: What would be a normal value on the FP voltage display when tx at 100W, using factory fused cables? No sub installed. PS is Astron VS-35M linear, voltage set at 13.9 idling per FP display. drops to 11.1 on TX. Current varies but up to 15.5A indicated. Specs call for 17-22A tx @100W. I suspect bad pass transistor and/or high drop over fuses, but want to establish normal indication for tx drop. 11.1v seems way out. tnx in advance __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
It also depends on the wire size and length of run. If you get a supply with Sense Terminals you can eliminate that problem. 73, Dick, W1KSZ On 8/21/2015 8:12 AM, Jerry Moore wrote: If you google around you'll find the Astron VS-35M is known to have issues with voltage sag under load. -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Charles Yahrling Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 11:06 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX What would be a normal value on the FP voltage display when tx at 100W, using factory fused cables? No sub installed. PS is Astron VS-35M linear, voltage set at 13.9 idling per FP display. drops to 11.1 on TX. Current varies but up to 15.5A indicated. Specs call for 17-22A tx @100W. I suspect bad pass transistor and/or high drop over fuses, but want to establish normal indication for tx drop. 11.1v seems way out. tnx in advance -- de AB1VL NAQCC #6799 ab1vl.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to je...@carolinaheli.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to w1...@earthlink.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
Same PS here, but a RigRunner 4005 in between PS and K3. RX 13.5V @ 1.26A TX (100W CW) 12.0V @ 17A This yields a resistance of 95mOhms which I consider ok. 73, Markus HB9BRJ -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/normal-K3-voltage-drop-on-TX-tp7606504p7606507.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
I just quickly tested my K3 s/n 8895 at 100w output into a 52 ohm dummy load. Key up = 13.5 vDC; Key down = 21.6 vDC. My power cable between my K3 and the Astron 75 amp power supply is homemade #8 twin wire about 8' long. 73, Tom - W4BQf -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Charles Yahrling Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 11:06 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX What would be a normal value on the FP voltage display when tx at 100W, using factory fused cables? No sub installed. PS is Astron VS-35M linear, voltage set at 13.9 idling per FP display. drops to 11.1 on TX. Current varies but up to 15.5A indicated. Specs call for 17-22A tx @100W. I suspect bad pass transistor and/or high drop over fuses, but want to establish normal indication for tx drop. 11.1v seems way out. tnx in advance -- de AB1VL NAQCC #6799 ab1vl.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to alderm...@windstream.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
If you google around you'll find the Astron VS-35M is known to have issues with voltage sag under load. -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Charles Yahrling Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 11:06 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX What would be a normal value on the FP voltage display when tx at 100W, using factory fused cables? No sub installed. PS is Astron VS-35M linear, voltage set at 13.9 idling per FP display. drops to 11.1 on TX. Current varies but up to 15.5A indicated. Specs call for 17-22A tx @100W. I suspect bad pass transistor and/or high drop over fuses, but want to establish normal indication for tx drop. 11.1v seems way out. tnx in advance -- de AB1VL NAQCC #6799 ab1vl.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to je...@carolinaheli.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] normal K3 voltage drop on TX
What would be a normal value on the FP voltage display when tx at 100W, using factory fused cables? No sub installed. PS is Astron VS-35M linear, voltage set at 13.9 idling per FP display. drops to 11.1 on TX. Current varies but up to 15.5A indicated. Specs call for 17-22A tx @100W. I suspect bad pass transistor and/or high drop over fuses, but want to establish normal indication for tx drop. 11.1v seems way out. tnx in advance -- de AB1VL NAQCC #6799 ab1vl.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
