Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
I've used the "wire around the tip" trick too and it worked for me. Later I got a small tip (0.5mm) for my iron. I think an even smaller tip might be better. For fine pitch IC's I found that liquid solder flux makes soldering much much easier. You can get a flux pen from Mouser or Digikey for $4 or $5. If necessary, use solderwick to remove bridges between the leads. This leaves enough solder to still form a joint between the lead and the pad. When using the liquid flux, I haven't had trouble with bridges, even on 25mil pitch leads. 73/ Bob - W5BIG - Original Message - From: "Larry Makoski W2LJ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits? > A "trick" that I learned was to take a long piece of solid "bell wire" > or hookup wire (copper) about 6- 8 inches long. Remove the insulation > and wrap a coil around your soldering iron tip. Bring the last bit of > wire out, parallel to the axix of the soldering iron. Plug the iron, in, > let the wire heat up, cut the "tip" to the length you want and you have > a very fine tip for soldering SMD devices. > > I wouldn't want to build a kit this way; but if you only have a couple > devices to solder it works pretty good. > > 73 de Larry W2LJ - Vivat Morse! © ® > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.qsl.net/w2lj > > ARRL Lifemember QRP ARCI #4488 NJQRP #47 > FISTS #1469 QRP-L #778 FP #612 QRPp-I #759 > ARS #1528, AmQRP, CQC #746 > > K1 #1647 - K2 #4090 for QRP > Icom IC-751A for QRO > Butternut HF9V and G5RV antennas > > - Original Message - > > John Payne wrote: > > > Who needs an expensive "soldering station" for SMT? I've built a > couple of > > SMT projects with a standard soldering station (using a fine tip)with > no > > problem. If one looks for excuses, one can find them, and never do or > learn > > anything new! There are many cheap and easy tricks for SMT work, if > one > > only cares to look a bit! > > > > 73 de John N4FLJ > > > > ___ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?--- END of thread
41 SMT related posts in the last couple of days. Wow! Looks like we've beaten it to death. Time to let this thread rest. :-) 73, Eric WA6HHQ Elecraft List moderator ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
Yes, the Princess line of irons with replaceable tips can be used for SMT. Stuart K5KVH ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
Sandy, What kind of soldering station do you have now? How about $5 to put you in SMD capable soldering set up? Or maybe $10 outside, the cost of a proper tip if you have a heat controlled station now. 750 tips would do it, with the narrow end suited to 1206 pads. 73, Stuart K5KVH ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
SMT: Actually, you can use your present soldering station if it is heat controlled, and just get a smaller conical 750 degree tip for the Weller, or Ungar lines. For home use, this works for 1206 components well enough. The secret is to not apply heat too long, you are not soldering like you did with leaded components and trying to melt a whole pad. You are "tacking" down the 1206 one end at a time after centering it on a pretinned pad. A simple 25 watt iron could be used if you got or made a suitable tip of copper. A larger wattage iron might work well if you put a diode in series with hot side of AC line to limit the voltage and thus wattage. For simple projects, it is NOT necessary to use the hot air gun, or reflow solder tank. -Stuart K5KVH ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
I have an old Ungar "Princess" that might work? Someday I mat try SMD out, but I suspect I'll sooner or later drop some parts and probably never find them! 73, Sandy W5TVW - Original Message - From: "John Payne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Sandy W5TVW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Frank C Van Cleef" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:12 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits? | Who needs an expensive "soldering station" for SMT? I've built a couple of | SMT projects with a standard soldering station (using a fine tip)with no | problem. If one looks for excuses, one can find them, and never do or learn | anything new! There are many cheap and easy tricks for SMT work, if one | only cares to look a bit! | | 73 de John N4FLJ | - Original Message - | From: "Sandy W5TVW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | | | | > One "reason" I don't care with SMD stuff, is the cost of "proper" | soldering gear for | > them! > Big smile ;^) | > | | | ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
As I said, I think the "soldering" part would be the least bothersome part of
assembling SMD board. (PROVIDED...the assembler KNOWS HOW to solder!...
this was one of the BIGGEST problems I encountered fixing Heathkit stuff
other people put together. Some looked like they used a heated mail for a
soldering
iron!)
The biggest problem would be positioning and handling the components!
At least I think this would be the "kink" for people who KNOW how to
solder correctly!
73,
Sandy W5TVW
- Original Message -
From: "Mike Morrow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
| I wrote:
|
| >> SMT construction is specifically designed *only* for machine
| >> assembly. IMO, any SMT kit must come with almost all the SMT
| >> components pre-assembled to the PC boards to be acceptable.
|
| To which Blake responded:
|
| >Misinformation.
|
| The fact that some humans can manage to assemble some SMT components with
varying
degrees of inconvenience does *not* alter the fact that SMT component packages
*are*
designed first and foremost to facilitate machine assembly. No designer of an
SMT
component package ever sat down and added "ease of human manual assembly" to
the list
of design criteria he had to meet.
|
| The second sentence began with "IMO" ("in my opinion"). An opinion expressing
personal preference is not "misinformation." It *is* a fact that a manually
assembled SMT kit is unacceptable to me (and many many other likely kit
builders).
|
| > I like SMT much better... No board flipping and lead clipping.
|
| I'll accept that as a statement of personal preference. Otherwise I might
make the
same mistake and write "Misinformation!"
|
| 73
| Mike / KK5F
| ___
| Elecraft mailing list
| Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
| You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
| Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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|
|
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
A "trick" that I learned was to take a long piece of solid "bell wire" or hookup wire (copper) about 6- 8 inches long. Remove the insulation and wrap a coil around your soldering iron tip. Bring the last bit of wire out, parallel to the axix of the soldering iron. Plug the iron, in, let the wire heat up, cut the "tip" to the length you want and you have a very fine tip for soldering SMD devices. I wouldn't want to build a kit this way; but if you only have a couple devices to solder it works pretty good. 73 de Larry W2LJ - Vivat Morse! © ® [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.qsl.net/w2lj ARRL Lifemember QRP ARCI #4488 NJQRP #47 FISTS #1469 QRP-L #778 FP #612 QRPp-I #759 ARS #1528, AmQRP, CQC #746 K1 #1647 - K2 #4090 for QRP Icom IC-751A for QRO Butternut HF9V and G5RV antennas - Original Message - John Payne wrote: > Who needs an expensive "soldering station" for SMT? I've built a couple of > SMT projects with a standard soldering station (using a fine tip)with no > problem. If one looks for excuses, one can find them, and never do or learn > anything new! There are many cheap and easy tricks for SMT work, if one > only cares to look a bit! > > 73 de John N4FLJ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
Richard, I already sent you my comments directly as you requested, but feel I should respond to some of the comments posted here. By way of background, the only SMT parts I had used previously were mounting 5 SMT caps on an Inrad roofing filter kit for my Orion. That went well so I began looking for another SMT kit to try. I decided to try KD1JV's AT Sprint II which is described here: http://www.al7fs.us/AL7FS5ATSprint2.html The ATS-2 is a quasi-competitor to the KX1 in that it covers 80/40/30/20 and comes in a very small lightweight package for $205 shipped. I was particularly interested in the weight since I've gotten interested in the Adventure Radio Society's Spartan Sprints, which place a premium on weight. My ATS-2 including paddle, earphones, modules for 80/40/20 and a 9V battery (good for 2.5W for the 2 hour Sprint duration) altogether weighs 0.59 pounds. Steve KD1JV has now ended production of the ATS-2 in favor of an ATS-3 which should be even lighter! Construction was really a non-event and it was actually fun to build. I was initially worried about the AD9834 DDS chip which has extremely small leads but even that was no problem. The only trick to SMT is to use the proper tools--a magnifying visor (I got one for $4.95 plus shipping), 0.015" solder and a needle point tip on a standard solder station (mine is the $35 Circuit Specialists version) are the only musts . Special SMT soldering equipment is NOT needed. I also did NOT use any hold-down device although it is very easy to construct one with several web references (one on AL7FS's site above). Bottom line for me: SMT is nothing to be afraid of if you use the proper tools (which are neither expensive or specialized). I'm now just waiting for KD1JV to bring out his ATS-3 and get my weight down WELL below 0.5 pounds for more Spartan Sprints. 73, Bill W4ZV (K2 #4119) ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
I wrote:
>> SMT construction is specifically designed *only* for machine
>> assembly. IMO, any SMT kit must come with almost all the SMT
>> components pre-assembled to the PC boards to be acceptable.
To which Blake responded:
>Misinformation.
The fact that some humans can manage to assemble some SMT components with
varying degrees of inconvenience does *not* alter the fact that SMT component
packages *are* designed first and foremost to facilitate machine assembly. No
designer of an SMT component package ever sat down and added "ease of human
manual assembly" to the list of design criteria he had to meet.
The second sentence began with "IMO" ("in my opinion"). An opinion expressing
personal preference is not "misinformation." It *is* a fact that a manually
assembled SMT kit is unacceptable to me (and many many other likely kit
builders).
> I like SMT much better... No board flipping and lead clipping.
I'll accept that as a statement of personal preference. Otherwise I might make
the same mistake and write "Misinformation!"
73
Mike / KK5F
___
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
Who needs an expensive "soldering station" for SMT? I've built a couple of SMT projects with a standard soldering station (using a fine tip)with no problem. If one looks for excuses, one can find them, and never do or learn anything new! There are many cheap and easy tricks for SMT work, if one only cares to look a bit! 73 de John N4FLJ - Original Message - From: "Sandy W5TVW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > One "reason" I don't care with SMD stuff, is the cost of "proper" soldering gear for > them! > Big smile ;^) > ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sandy W5TVW > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 7:18 PM > To: Frank C Van Cleef; elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits? > > One "reason" I don't care with SMD stuff, is the cost of > "proper" soldering gear for them! The Optivisor and > magnafier florescent lamps I have, who can spend many times > more than a kit would cost for an SMD "soldering station"? > (Not to mention looking for missing parts on my "unclean > room" workshop!!) Sandy Good lighting and inspection capability is essential for any construction work, through hole or SMT. You would actually find less issues with lighting on SMT work although in some cases you are correct, because of the reduced pitch of the parts, especially IC pins, a good magnifier can become essential. > Big smile ;^) Only as long as you do not drop any parts (especially MLCC's as they have no markings!), then its frown time! There is still a lot to be said for all the parts having the value marked well, and Elecraft do well by supplying the through hole parts on bandolier from a sequencer so they can be removed in line with the assembly manual, not so easy to do that with SMT. This was missed in the earlier posts. John (GM1BSG) > 73, > Sandy W5TVW > - Original Message - > From: "Frank C Van Cleef" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:20 AM > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits? > > > | > | With all due respect to those of us who have to squint ever > harder to see > | what used to stand out > | clearly: I, for one, would be delighted to have a kit > based primarily on > | SMT devices to try my hand at. I have a fine-tip iron and > an Optovisor at > | hand, and I love to build kits, so if SMT is the coming > thing, let's have at > | it! It may not be everybody's cupp'a'tea but new things > are interesting and > | exciting to try, and isn't that what it's all about? > | > | Perhaps a kit of, say, the K1's complexity to start with. > The TAPR project > | described below is a pretty big gulp to start with, so > perhaps something a > | little less complicated would be in order for a first project. > | What say, Elecraft guru's, I bet the challenges of > designing an SMT kit > | project would be exciting on your side as well!? > | > | 73 de W1WCG > | Frank Van Cleef > | > | - Original Message - > | From: "Richard T Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > | To: > | Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:29 AM > | Subject: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits? > | > | > | Ok, folks - this is off topic, but since y'all have been a > font of knowledge > | about kit building, I thought I would try this question... > | > | How hard is SMT soldering, really? I've been lusting after > the TAPR Software > | Defined Radio > kit,(http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/Fdsp10.html) but it's > | majority SMT. I'm in my 30's, with fairly steady hands and > decent vision... > | with the proper tools, should I be able to do this? Any > experienced SMT > | builders out there got any pointers? > | Please respond to me directly - I'll summarize for the list > later if there's > | interest. > | > | Now, for the other shoe - I just ordered a KX1 to go with > my now almost 5 > | year old K2 (#668). This should be fun! > | > | 73 DE KF4BAL/V73 > | Richard Perry > | ___ > | Elecraft mailing list > | Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > | You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > | Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > | http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > | Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > | Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > | > | > | ___ > | Elecraft mailing list > | Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > | You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > | Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > | Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > | Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > | > | > > ___ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Morrow > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:35 PM > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits? > > I would *never* buy any kit that requires more than an item > or two of SMT work. SMT construction is specifically > designed *only* for machine assembly. IMO, any SMT kit must > come with almost all the SMT components pre-assembled to the > PC boards to be acceptable. Mike This is not so my friend. Even in a production environment manual SMT assembly or rework is common place. You cannot lead a board back into a machine after placement, for a start you cannot paste it again! So any issues found by manual/AO/FFT inspection needs fixed manually. I have seen non-skilled workers, with no interest in electronics at all (and sometimes no motivation) become quite competent within a week or so on devices down to 0603 for chip parts (smallest you should really go in a kit IMHO) and even 0.65mm pitch SOIC and QFP parts. Of course to become really skilful takes a lot longer and a will/desire to do it but it shows the minor learning curve required, there are no mountains to climb if the kit is balanced between SMT parts/PTH parts. > I'm not against SMT. In fact, I wish the K1 or KX1 were > available with most of the generic components in SMT, > pre-assembled. (MFJ has almost the correct mixture in their > Cub kits.) That would be more reliable, quicker to build, > eliminate much error, reduce monotony in assembly, simplify > kit parts inventory, etc. But a kit with many SMT parts that > must be assembled by the builder grossly degrades, rather > than improves, **all** of these areas, in comparison with > conventional components. I had actually considered buying a K2 and creating a hybrid SMT/PTH version as I was looking for a bit more of a challenge than just soldering and aligning the kit. The additional space which would be freed up would allow for some more goodies to be squeezed in... (maybe ;-) ) It would also allow for builders who are not confident to complete a full kit, to buy a part assembled boards (say with R/C already fitted, thus avoiding what must be one of the most common problems for new builders, the part in the wrong place) I would guess the IC might be better left as PTH to better fit with Elecraft spares inventory Perhaps Elecraft would consider sending me the SCH in e-readable format or as netlist and set me loose on this as a mini project ... ? It would be fun, so the ground work could be done as a feasibility exercise for free. After seeing the issues caused by builders expectations of what a 'quality' build job should be I do believe SMT would help in a big way, if say 1206 sized parts were used they are not much different in size than a 1/8 W resistor and easily handled, no cropping, no worry about through hole penetration levels and perhaps a bit better performance in some areas that have trace critical routing. Just some comments of mine John (GM1BSG) > ___ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
Now that Wayne Burdick has a great idea. An introductory kit to SMT devices. That is why I like Elecraft. Thinking folks. As the cordinator for a "build day" for our local radio club, I embarked upon a small inexpensive kit search that would give our novice builders the biggest bang for their buck ($27) and something that hopefully could be completed in a day. As a result 11 RockMites were ordered from Dave Benson at Small Wonder Labs. The RockMite has one surface mount device. That gets installed first and the rest of the kit then builds around it. I am anxiously awaiting the day when we have 11 builders of various expertise "gluing" that one in. Fortunately we have planned "elmers" into the project so there will be an experienced builder at every table to guide faltering hands. Jim, W4ATK K2/100 4028 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
One "reason" I don't care with SMD stuff, is the cost of "proper" soldering gear for them! The Optivisor and magnafier florescent lamps I have, who can spend many times more than a kit would cost for an SMD "soldering station"? (Not to mention looking for missing parts on my "unclean room" workshop!!) Big smile ;^) 73, Sandy W5TVW - Original Message - From: "Frank C Van Cleef" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:20 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits? | | With all due respect to those of us who have to squint ever harder to see | what used to stand out | clearly: I, for one, would be delighted to have a kit based primarily on | SMT devices to try my hand at. I have a fine-tip iron and an Optovisor at | hand, and I love to build kits, so if SMT is the coming thing, let's have at | it! It may not be everybody's cupp'a'tea but new things are interesting and | exciting to try, and isn't that what it's all about? | | Perhaps a kit of, say, the K1's complexity to start with. The TAPR project | described below is a pretty big gulp to start with, so perhaps something a | little less complicated would be in order for a first project. | What say, Elecraft guru's, I bet the challenges of designing an SMT kit | project would be exciting on your side as well!? | | 73 de W1WCG | Frank Van Cleef | | - Original Message - | From: "Richard T Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | To: | Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:29 AM | Subject: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits? | | | Ok, folks - this is off topic, but since y'all have been a font of knowledge | about kit building, I thought I would try this question... | | How hard is SMT soldering, really? I've been lusting after the TAPR Software | Defined Radio kit,(http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/Fdsp10.html) but it's | majority SMT. I'm in my 30's, with fairly steady hands and decent vision... | with the proper tools, should I be able to do this? Any experienced SMT | builders out there got any pointers? | Please respond to me directly - I'll summarize for the list later if there's | interest. | | Now, for the other shoe - I just ordered a KX1 to go with my now almost 5 | year old K2 (#668). This should be fun! | | 73 DE KF4BAL/V73 | Richard Perry | ___ | Elecraft mailing list | Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net | You must be a subscriber to post to the list. | Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): | http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft | Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm | Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com | | | ___ | Elecraft mailing list | Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net | You must be a subscriber to post to the list. | Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft | Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm | Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com | | ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
Actually, I find surface mount components much easier to replace in most cases than through hole parts. Especially when you are prototyping and you have to change components often. No holes to clean out, no plate throughs to damage, no leads to clip. Once you get used to the size of the parts and a little different technique in building, it's easy. As to the comment about it being for machine assembly only, we hand build all prototype pcb's at work. Very high density stuff too. Not that big a deal once you have done it a few times. The K1 could probably be the size of the KX1 if all SMD's were used... 73's Trev - K6ESE http://www.qsl.net/k6ese dit dididit dit dit dit ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
- Original Message - From: Mike Morrow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:34 am Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits? > SMT construction is specifically designed *only* for machine > assembly. IMO, any SMT kit must come with almost all the SMT > componentspre-assembled to the PC boards to be acceptable. Misinformation. When I was in college, a bunch of radio club members decided to get the NorCal SMK 40m kits. Some of those guys had little to no soldering experience, but all of us had our rigs working FB in a couple of hours with no problems. A little "how-to" info is all you need: http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~fvandenb/work/robot/SMT-GuideV1-3.pdf I like SMT much better... No board flipping and lead clipping. 73, Blake N4GI ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
G'day, > I would *never* buy any kit that requires more than an item or two of SMT > work. SMT construction is specifically designed *only* for machine > assembly. IMO, any SMT kit must come with almost all the SMT components > pre-assembled to the PC boards to be acceptable. Well I guess "through hole" is going to vanish sooner or later, probably sooner, so we had better get used to it. Yes, I would buy a kit that uses SMT components. A right royal pain in the butt no doubt, so I would like to start small (no pun intended). Regards, Mike VP8NO #1400 + re-heat ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
Lesee... The design of clocks, especially mechanical watches, has always fascinated me. I built a 24-inch long model of the USS Constitution once with about half a jillion tiny knots in the rigging, all done by hand using tweezers. With that background, I simply found the advent of SMC's "interesting". I already had an optivisor. My first experience was with removing and replacing them on pc boards with no specialized tools while repairing "land mobile" radios in the 80's. Later it was doing the same thing sitting cross-legged on a cold steel floor using a "porta-sol" butane iron and a small flashlight clamped in my teeth while servicing electronics on ships. At least in the land mobile shop I had a soldering station, comfortable bench and good light, but the shipboard experience proved that with enough practice one can get good results in very primitive conditions. Patience, good vision aids (if you're old enough that you can't focus on the tip of your nose any longer), a solder sucker or braid and sharp knife, and a pair of tweezers are the basics, in my experience. Oh, and a pair of soft-soled shoes helps. If you pick up a "pebble" on your shoe, you can be sure it's a resistor or a capacitor. Removing 'em, I use braid or a sucker to take all the solder off I can. Usually the part is still stuck by a tiny thin film of solder at each terminal bonding it to the board. A razor blade or very sharp hobby knife run along that seam will separate the part from the board without damaging either. Be sure to hold the part down with a small screwdriver or one blade of the tweezers when you remove the last bit of solder or you may have to pick it off of the bottom of your shoe eventually. Putting an SMC on, I hold the part in place with the tip of the tweezers, then "tack solder" one end using just the iron with a tiny amount of solder on it. Then I let go of the tweezers and properly solder the other end before going back to the first tack solder spot and finishing it, if needed. If the pad/part are tinned properly, just touching it with the iron the first time often solders it FB. You don't need a lot of solder. Make sure any solder on the pc-board pads is VERY thin. You don't want the part held off the board on islands of solder or stressing a terminal by pushing down on it after one end is soldered with the part not lying flat on the board. When replacing parts, I often use a bit of solder braid heated by the iron to "dry" the board pads as much as possible before installing the new part. Multi-pin transistors and I.C.s work just the same, but with more terminals. There are specialized irons that will heat both terminals on an SMC cap or resistor simultaneously, or even a whole I.C. If I were to do a lot of SMC work on my bench, I'd probably get one. Like any soldering, taking parts off cleanly is more work than putting 'em on. Frankly, most SMC's are too cheap to worry about much, unless I want to check the part out-of-circuit after it's off. So I worry about the board and I'm quick to sacrifice the part during removal if that makes things easier. In that regard, it's no different than replacing through-hole parts. Prefer Grandfather clocks to watches? Then at least through-hole and possibly vacuum tube stuff is likely a much more interesting project . Ron AC7AC -Original Message- ...How hard is SMT soldering, really? I've been lusting after the TAPR Software Defined Radio kit,(http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/Fdsp10.html) but it's majority SMT. I'm in my 30's, with fairly steady hands and decent vision... with the proper tools, should I be able to do this? Any experienced SMT builders out there got any pointers? Please respond to me directly - I'll summarize for the list later if there's interest. Now, for the other shoe - I just ordered a KX1 to go with my now almost 5 year old K2 (#668). This should be fun! 73 DE KF4BAL/V73 Richard Perry ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
Mike, - Original Message - From: "Mike Morrow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits? > I would *never* buy any kit that requires more than an item or two of SMT > work. SMT construction is specifically designed *only* for machine > assembly. IMO, any SMT kit must come with almost all the SMT components I must respectively disagree with this statement. SMT parts are quite regularly hand soldered in a professional production environment. -- 73, Rod N0RC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
I would *never* buy any kit that requires more than an item or two of SMT work. SMT construction is specifically designed *only* for machine assembly. IMO, any SMT kit must come with almost all the SMT components pre-assembled to the PC boards to be acceptable. I'm not against SMT. In fact, I wish the K1 or KX1 were available with most of the generic components in SMT, pre-assembled. (MFJ has almost the correct mixture in their Cub kits.) That would be more reliable, quicker to build, eliminate much error, reduce monotony in assembly, simplify kit parts inventory, etc. But a kit with many SMT parts that must be assembled by the builder grossly degrades, rather than improves, **all** of these areas, in comparison with conventional components. 73, Mike / KK5F ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
With all due respect to those of us who have to squint ever harder to see what used to stand out clearly: I, for one, would be delighted to have a kit based primarily on SMT devices to try my hand at. I have a fine-tip iron and an Optovisor at hand, and I love to build kits, so if SMT is the coming thing, let's have at it! It may not be everybody's cupp'a'tea but new things are interesting and exciting to try, and isn't that what it's all about? Perhaps a kit of, say, the K1's complexity to start with. The TAPR project described below is a pretty big gulp to start with, so perhaps something a little less complicated would be in order for a first project. What say, Elecraft guru's, I bet the challenges of designing an SMT kit project would be exciting on your side as well!? 73 de W1WCG Frank Van Cleef - Original Message - From: "Richard T Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:29 AM Subject: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits? Ok, folks - this is off topic, but since y'all have been a font of knowledge about kit building, I thought I would try this question... How hard is SMT soldering, really? I've been lusting after the TAPR Software Defined Radio kit,(http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/Fdsp10.html) but it's majority SMT. I'm in my 30's, with fairly steady hands and decent vision... with the proper tools, should I be able to do this? Any experienced SMT builders out there got any pointers? Please respond to me directly - I'll summarize for the list later if there's interest. Now, for the other shoe - I just ordered a KX1 to go with my now almost 5 year old K2 (#668). This should be fun! 73 DE KF4BAL/V73 Richard Perry ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
None of this "SMT" nonsense for me! My eyes have gotten old enough to give me trouble just reading numbers on newer "mini parts"! Also arthritis in my thumbs has affected the dexterity of the hand I once had! It's like "working on wristwatches" as far as I'm concerned! I played that game when I was younger, but no more! Have fun with the Surface mounted stuff guys> 73, Sandy W5TVW - Original Message - From: "Steve, G4GXL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits? | > SMT work requires ... a few pieces of extra | equipment if one is to be successful < | | One useful piece of 'extra equipment' is a vacuum | cleaner with a piece of nylon stocking stretched over | the nozzle. | | Then instead of spending 30 minutes on your hands and | knees looking for the SMD component that you just | dropped (and is almost certainly the only one for | which you have no spare), a quick swipe with the | Hoover should find it. | | 73 | Steve, G4GXL | | ___ | Elecraft mailing list | Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net | You must be a subscriber to post to the list. | Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft | Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm | Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com | | ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
> SMT work requires ... a few pieces of extra equipment if one is to be successful < One useful piece of 'extra equipment' is a vacuum cleaner with a piece of nylon stocking stretched over the nozzle. Then instead of spending 30 minutes on your hands and knees looking for the SMD component that you just dropped (and is almost certainly the only one for which you have no spare), a quick swipe with the Hoover should find it. 73 Steve, G4GXL ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
Richard, SMT work requires some parts handling techniques and a few pieces of extra equipment if one is to be successful. If you are going to be building electronic equipment, it is something you may want to persue. The first thing needed is to develop a gentle hand with the tweezers to adequately hold those small parts without having them fly off into 'never-never-land' when you try to pick them up. The second thing needed is a 'third hand' - to hold down the part while you use one hand to hold the soldering iron and another to apply a small bit of solder - a fixture that holds a vertical rod (stainless steel is a good choice) and applies a few ounces of pressure straight down (and not sideways) is a nice thing to have. A well lighted work area and a magnifier are quite desirable too, but that is not unique to SMT construction. Those are the essential things - some folks have developed exotic tools for SMT work, but you could get by with these basic essentials. Give it a try - you could see the availability of thru-hole parts dry up in your lifetime as more automated processes move to SMT. 73, Don W3FPR - Original Message - How hard is SMT soldering, really? I've been lusting after the TAPR Software Defined Radio kit,(http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/Fdsp10.html) but it's majority SMT. I'm in my 30's, with fairly steady hands and decent vision... with the proper tools, should I be able to do this? Any experienced SMT builders out there got any pointers? Please respond to me directly - I'll summarize for the list later if there's interest. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
