Re: [Elecraft] K3 ANT 1-2 isolation
Interesting. I looked at it from the other direction. With the K3 ANT1 connected to a dummy load and ANT2 connected also to a dummy load via my WM-2 QRP wattmeter. With 100W out at ANT1, out of ANT2 I measured 30mW at 50MHz down to 1mW at 7.1MHz. A range of -30dB to -50dB. 50MHz is not in the WM-2 spec, however, 25mW was measured at 28.2MHz which gives -36dB. There are obviously potential measurement errors there so no one needs to take it as absolute. Perhaps someone with access to precision equipment could also do the test. Regards, Mike VP8NO On 28/04/2012 12:27, Mark - G4AXX wrote: The isolation between ANT 1 and ANT 2 varies from -76dB at 1.8MHz to -46dB at 50MHz. This is measured with a signal generator, using the K3 S-meter, with ANT 2, AUX RF and RX ANT IN terminated in 50 Ohms. http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/file/n7509068/ANT1-2_leakage.jpg The isolation between AUX RF and ANT 1/2 is95dB (1-30MHz), rising to -70dB (52MHz). This was measured with an N2PK VNA. I have tried to dress the unscreened wires from ANT 1 2 to the ATU in a way to minimise coupling, but the coupling is dominated by the capacitance of relays K18 K19. Using ANT1/2 for Diversity reception means the receivers are never truly independent. There is likely to be more coupling inside the K3 than can usually be achieved by physical separation of the antennas. Operating Diversity reception with the SUB RX fed from the AUX RF BNC input is the way to go. 73 Mark G4AXX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 ANT 1-2 isolation
You are getting some really worse numbers than I did. You may have ant2 only terminated on one end of its cable connections, which would be really worse on 6 meters than 160. There is one of those bitty jacks that needs a cable attached to it and then terminated. It's the other antenna connection that allows you to listen on whichever of ANT1/2 the TX is NOT using. Out on Core Banks, NC, we were using doublets at right angles on the same pole to ANT1 and ANT2, receiving with diversity. There was 30 dB separation with the two antennas hanging on the same pole. How much better does it have to be inside the K3? You need to terminate the internal K3 connection of ANT2 when you make the measurement. Also the shields of both cable connections at both ends need to be grounded as well as terminated. 73, Guy. On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Mike Harris mike.har...@cwimail.fk wrote: Interesting. I looked at it from the other direction. With the K3 ANT1 connected to a dummy load and ANT2 connected also to a dummy load via my WM-2 QRP wattmeter. With 100W out at ANT1, out of ANT2 I measured 30mW at 50MHz down to 1mW at 7.1MHz. A range of -30dB to -50dB. 50MHz is not in the WM-2 spec, however, 25mW was measured at 28.2MHz which gives -36dB. There are obviously potential measurement errors there so no one needs to take it as absolute. Perhaps someone with access to precision equipment could also do the test. Regards, Mike VP8NO On 28/04/2012 12:27, Mark - G4AXX wrote: The isolation between ANT 1 and ANT 2 varies from -76dB at 1.8MHz to -46dB at 50MHz. This is measured with a signal generator, using the K3 S-meter, with ANT 2, AUX RF and RX ANT IN terminated in 50 Ohms. http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/file/n7509068/ANT1-2_leakage.jpg The isolation between AUX RF and ANT 1/2 is95dB (1-30MHz), rising to -70dB (52MHz). This was measured with an N2PK VNA. I have tried to dress the unscreened wires from ANT 1 2 to the ATU in a way to minimise coupling, but the coupling is dominated by the capacitance of relays K18 K19. Using ANT1/2 for Diversity reception means the receivers are never truly independent. There is likely to be more coupling inside the K3 than can usually be achieved by physical separation of the antennas. Operating Diversity reception with the SUB RX fed from the AUX RF BNC input is the way to go. 73 Mark G4AXX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 ANT 1-2 isolation
I thought it was clear that all I was looking at was a transmit parameter, that is, what came out of ANT2 when ANT1 was was carrying a signal. This gives an idea of the coupling across the C/O relay K18 which selects ANT1 or 2. In this context both ports were terminated. I fail to see why I should also have to terminate J43 on the KAT3, it would in effect doubly terminate the port with one termination before the wattmeter and one after. Not a satisfactory situation for the measurement. Naturally, if the Sub RX is connected to J43 that job would be being done by the input of the RX and readings might be different. I have my Sub RX either listening to the same antenna as the Main RX or to the Aux antenna port. Nothing connected to J43. The idea was to see what happens with one of a set of standard set-ups, not one where the configuration has been rigged to try and maximise a reading. If there is a real need to absolutely minimise what came out of, or into, the unused antenna port then by all means terminate J43. It's yours to do with what you like. Regards, Mike VP8NO On 29/04/2012 17:06, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote: You are getting some really worse numbers than I did. You may have ant2 only terminated on one end of its cable connections, which would be really worse on 6 meters than 160. There is one of those bitty jacks that needs a cable attached to it and then terminated. It's the other antenna connection that allows you to listen on whichever of ANT1/2 the TX is NOT using. Out on Core Banks, NC, we were using doublets at right angles on the same pole to ANT1 and ANT2, receiving with diversity. There was 30 dB separation with the two antennas hanging on the same pole. How much better does it have to be inside the K3? You need to terminate the internal K3 connection of ANT2 when you make the measurement. Also the shields of both cable connections at both ends need to be grounded as well as terminated. 73, Guy. On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Mike Harrismike.har...@cwimail.fk wrote: Interesting. I looked at it from the other direction. With the K3 ANT1 connected to a dummy load and ANT2 connected also to a dummy load via my WM-2 QRP wattmeter. With 100W out at ANT1, out of ANT2 I measured 30mW at 50MHz down to 1mW at 7.1MHz. A range of -30dB to -50dB. 50MHz is not in the WM-2 spec, however, 25mW was measured at 28.2MHz which gives -36dB. There are obviously potential measurement errors there so no one needs to take it as absolute. Perhaps someone with access to precision equipment could also do the test. Regards, Mike VP8NO On 28/04/2012 12:27, Mark - G4AXX wrote: The isolation between ANT 1 and ANT 2 varies from -76dB at 1.8MHz to -46dB at 50MHz. This is measured with a signal generator, using the K3 S-meter, with ANT 2, AUX RF and RX ANT IN terminated in 50 Ohms. http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/file/n7509068/ANT1-2_leakage.jpg The isolation between AUX RF and ANT 1/2 is95dB (1-30MHz), rising to -70dB (52MHz). This was measured with an N2PK VNA. I have tried to dress the unscreened wires from ANT 1 2 to the ATU in a way to minimise coupling, but the coupling is dominated by the capacitance of relays K18 K19. Using ANT1/2 for Diversity reception means the receivers are never truly independent. There is likely to be more coupling inside the K3 than can usually be achieved by physical separation of the antennas. Operating Diversity reception with the SUB RX fed from the AUX RF BNC input is the way to go. 73 Mark G4AXX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 ANT 1-2 isolation
In your context the ANT1 circuit was normally terminated, one port in the transmitter, the other in an antenna. That's normal, a load on both ends. ANT2 was NOT normally terminated unless you want to treat the reactive 10 k+ Z termination of the tiny capacitance across the relay as normal. If antenna two was actually being used for something while TX on ANT2, there would be something on J43 when not in transmit. If you have a sub RX on the non-TX line, then the crossover means something, as in do I need to close the COR relay. But that now is the same as your ANT1 termination, TX on one end, ANTenna on the other, except RX on one end and antenna on the other. I could say that your method was the one rigged (as in not normal), and was devised to come up with the worst possible reading. I actually USE ANT 2 during TX on ANT 1. That's when you want to know the separation. I don't get readings as bad as yours. 73, Guy. On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 5:51 PM, Mike Harris mike.har...@cwimail.fk wrote: I thought it was clear that all I was looking at was a transmit parameter, that is, what came out of ANT2 when ANT1 was was carrying a signal. This gives an idea of the coupling across the C/O relay K18 which selects ANT1 or 2. In this context both ports were terminated. I fail to see why I should also have to terminate J43 on the KAT3, it would in effect doubly terminate the port with one termination before the wattmeter and one after. Not a satisfactory situation for the measurement. Naturally, if the Sub RX is connected to J43 that job would be being done by the input of the RX and readings might be different. I have my Sub RX either listening to the same antenna as the Main RX or to the Aux antenna port. Nothing connected to J43. The idea was to see what happens with one of a set of standard set-ups, not one where the configuration has been rigged to try and maximise a reading. If there is a real need to absolutely minimise what came out of, or into, the unused antenna port then by all means terminate J43. It's yours to do with what you like. Regards, Mike VP8NO On 29/04/2012 17:06, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote: You are getting some really worse numbers than I did. You may have ant2 only terminated on one end of its cable connections, which would be really worse on 6 meters than 160. There is one of those bitty jacks that needs a cable attached to it and then terminated. It's the other antenna connection that allows you to listen on whichever of ANT1/2 the TX is NOT using. Out on Core Banks, NC, we were using doublets at right angles on the same pole to ANT1 and ANT2, receiving with diversity. There was 30 dB separation with the two antennas hanging on the same pole. How much better does it have to be inside the K3? You need to terminate the internal K3 connection of ANT2 when you make the measurement. Also the shields of both cable connections at both ends need to be grounded as well as terminated. 73, Guy. On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Mike Harrismike.har...@cwimail.fk wrote: Interesting. I looked at it from the other direction. With the K3 ANT1 connected to a dummy load and ANT2 connected also to a dummy load via my WM-2 QRP wattmeter. With 100W out at ANT1, out of ANT2 I measured 30mW at 50MHz down to 1mW at 7.1MHz. A range of -30dB to -50dB. 50MHz is not in the WM-2 spec, however, 25mW was measured at 28.2MHz which gives -36dB. There are obviously potential measurement errors there so no one needs to take it as absolute. Perhaps someone with access to precision equipment could also do the test. Regards, Mike VP8NO On 28/04/2012 12:27, Mark - G4AXX wrote: The isolation between ANT 1 and ANT 2 varies from -76dB at 1.8MHz to -46dB at 50MHz. This is measured with a signal generator, using the K3 S-meter, with ANT 2, AUX RF and RX ANT IN terminated in 50 Ohms. http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/file/n7509068/ANT1-2_leakage.jpg The isolation between AUX RF and ANT 1/2 is95dB (1-30MHz), rising to -70dB (52MHz). This was measured with an N2PK VNA. I have tried to dress the unscreened wires from ANT 1 2 to the ATU in a way to minimise coupling, but the coupling is dominated by the capacitance of relays K18 K19. Using ANT1/2 for Diversity reception means the receivers are never truly independent. There is likely to be more coupling inside the K3 than can usually be achieved by physical separation of the antennas. Operating Diversity reception with the SUB RX fed from the AUX RF BNC input is the way to go. 73 Mark G4AXX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list:
Re: [Elecraft] K3 ANT 1-2 isolation
So what you are essentially saying is the K3 has a design fault because in a perfectly normal factory configuration it is leaving a port unterminated. Maybe it is the electronic equivalent of a Persian rug. I'm not rigging anything, it's how it is right out of the box. I think the real objection here is simply that a low number is reported which is contrary to the perceived wish for the K3 to be somehow perfect. Regards, Mike VP8NO On 29/04/2012 21:47, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote: In your context the ANT1 circuit was normally terminated, one port in the transmitter, the other in an antenna. That's normal, a load on both ends. ANT2 was NOT normally terminated unless you want to treat the reactive 10 k+ Z termination of the tiny capacitance across the relay as normal. If antenna two was actually being used for something while TX on ANT2, there would be something on J43 when not in transmit. If you have a sub RX on the non-TX line, then the crossover means something, as in do I need to close the COR relay. But that now is the same as your ANT1 termination, TX on one end, ANTenna on the other, except RX on one end and antenna on the other. I could say that your method was the one rigged (as in not normal), and was devised to come up with the worst possible reading. I actually USE ANT 2 during TX on ANT 1. That's when you want to know the separation. I don't get readings as bad as yours. 73, Guy. On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 5:51 PM, Mike Harrismike.har...@cwimail.fk wrote: I thought it was clear that all I was looking at was a transmit parameter, that is, what came out of ANT2 when ANT1 was was carrying a signal. This gives an idea of the coupling across the C/O relay K18 which selects ANT1 or 2. In this context both ports were terminated. I fail to see why I should also have to terminate J43 on the KAT3, it would in effect doubly terminate the port with one termination before the wattmeter and one after. Not a satisfactory situation for the measurement. Naturally, if the Sub RX is connected to J43 that job would be being done by the input of the RX and readings might be different. I have my Sub RX either listening to the same antenna as the Main RX or to the Aux antenna port. Nothing connected to J43. The idea was to see what happens with one of a set of standard set-ups, not one where the configuration has been rigged to try and maximise a reading. If there is a real need to absolutely minimise what came out of, or into, the unused antenna port then by all means terminate J43. It's yours to do with what you like. Regards, Mike VP8NO On 29/04/2012 17:06, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote: You are getting some really worse numbers than I did. You may have ant2 only terminated on one end of its cable connections, which would be really worse on 6 meters than 160. There is one of those bitty jacks that needs a cable attached to it and then terminated. It's the other antenna connection that allows you to listen on whichever of ANT1/2 the TX is NOT using. Out on Core Banks, NC, we were using doublets at right angles on the same pole to ANT1 and ANT2, receiving with diversity. There was 30 dB separation with the two antennas hanging on the same pole. How much better does it have to be inside the K3? You need to terminate the internal K3 connection of ANT2 when you make the measurement. Also the shields of both cable connections at both ends need to be grounded as well as terminated. 73, Guy. On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Mike Harrismike.har...@cwimail.fk wrote: Interesting. I looked at it from the other direction. With the K3 ANT1 connected to a dummy load and ANT2 connected also to a dummy load via my WM-2 QRP wattmeter. With 100W out at ANT1, out of ANT2 I measured 30mW at 50MHz down to 1mW at 7.1MHz. A range of -30dB to -50dB. 50MHz is not in the WM-2 spec, however, 25mW was measured at 28.2MHz which gives -36dB. There are obviously potential measurement errors there so no one needs to take it as absolute. Perhaps someone with access to precision equipment could also do the test. Regards, Mike VP8NO On 28/04/2012 12:27, Mark - G4AXX wrote: The isolation between ANT 1 and ANT 2 varies from -76dB at 1.8MHz to -46dB at 50MHz. This is measured with a signal generator, using the K3 S-meter, with ANT 2, AUX RF and RX ANT IN terminated in 50 Ohms. http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/file/n7509068/ANT1-2_leakage.jpg The isolation between AUX RF and ANT 1/2 is95dB (1-30MHz), rising to -70dB (52MHz). This was measured with an N2PK VNA. I have tried to dress the unscreened wires from ANT 12 to the ATU in a way to minimise coupling, but the coupling is dominated by the capacitance of relays K18K19. Using ANT1/2 for Diversity reception means the receivers are never truly independent. There is likely to be more coupling inside the K3 than can usually be achieved by physical separation of the
Re: [Elecraft] K3 ANT 1-2 isolation
The isolation between ANT 1 and ANT 2 varies from -76dB at 1.8MHz to -46dB at 50MHz. This is measured with a signal generator, using the K3 S-meter, with ANT 2, AUX RF and RX ANT IN terminated in 50 Ohms. http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/file/n7509068/ANT1-2_leakage.jpg The isolation between AUX RF and ANT 1/2 is 95dB (1-30MHz), rising to -70dB (52MHz). This was measured with an N2PK VNA. I have tried to dress the unscreened wires from ANT 1 2 to the ATU in a way to minimise coupling, but the coupling is dominated by the capacitance of relays K18 K19. Using ANT1/2 for Diversity reception means the receivers are never truly independent. There is likely to be more coupling inside the K3 than can usually be achieved by physical separation of the antennas. Operating Diversity reception with the SUB RX fed from the AUX RF BNC input is the way to go. 73 Mark G4AXX -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-ANT-1-2-isolation-tp7500652p7509068.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 ANT 1-2 isolation
with isolation numbers like this perhaps there is hope for duplex mode, with transmitting on one band with the subrx enabled and listening on another?? Hopefully! Mark n2qt -Original Message- From: Mark - G4AXX Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 11:27 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 ANT 1-2 isolation The isolation between ANT 1 and ANT 2 varies from -76dB at 1.8MHz to -46dB at 50MHz. This is measured with a signal generator, using the K3 S-meter, with ANT 2, AUX RF and RX ANT IN terminated in 50 Ohms. http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/file/n7509068/ANT1-2_leakage.jpg The isolation between AUX RF and ANT 1/2 is 95dB (1-30MHz), rising to -70dB (52MHz). This was measured with an N2PK VNA. I have tried to dress the unscreened wires from ANT 1 2 to the ATU in a way to minimise coupling, but the coupling is dominated by the capacitance of relays K18 K19. Using ANT1/2 for Diversity reception means the receivers are never truly independent. There is likely to be more coupling inside the K3 than can usually be achieved by physical separation of the antennas. Operating Diversity reception with the SUB RX fed from the AUX RF BNC input is the way to go. 73 Mark G4AXX -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-ANT-1-2-isolation-tp7500652p7509068.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 ANT 1-2 isolation
True that the isolation between ATN1, ANT2 and RX Ant are poor. The solution is to use a preamp in receive antennas so that signals from RX and TX antennas are similar in strength. Ignacy -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-ANT-1-2-isolation-tp7500652p7503048.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 ANT 1-2 isolation
Poor is a bit harsh, what do you expect from a single small C/O relay. Anything over 30dB isolation is a luxury. Regards, Mike VP8NO On 26/04/2012 11:24, Ignacy wrote: True that the isolation between ATN1, ANT2 and RX Ant are poor. The solution is to use a preamp in receive antennas so that signals from RX and TX antennas are similar in strength. Ignacy __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 ANT 1-2 isolation
Might be considered poor in relation to coaxial switches. Some of these get 70 dB isolation. 73, matt W6NIA On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 15:44:39 -0300, you wrote: Poor is a bit harsh, what do you expect from a single small C/O relay. Anything over 30dB isolation is a luxury. Regards, Mike VP8NO On 26/04/2012 11:24, Ignacy wrote: True that the isolation between ATN1, ANT2 and RX Ant are poor. The solution is to use a preamp in receive antennas so that signals from RX and TX antennas are similar in strength. Ignacy __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 ANT 1-2 isolation
I have much greater separations than 30 dB when the jacks are terminated with real lines, so I'll have to assume that readings like 30 dB are listening in an unterminated port with signals on another. You can't measure separation (or RX noise) without line terminations (resistor or real antenna) on ALL ports. 73, Guy. On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 3:17 PM, Matt Zilmer mzil...@verizon.net wrote: Might be considered poor in relation to coaxial switches. Some of these get 70 dB isolation. 73, matt W6NIA On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 15:44:39 -0300, you wrote: Poor is a bit harsh, what do you expect from a single small C/O relay. Anything over 30dB isolation is a luxury. Regards, Mike VP8NO On 26/04/2012 11:24, Ignacy wrote: True that the isolation between ATN1, ANT2 and RX Ant are poor. The solution is to use a preamp in receive antennas so that signals from RX and TX antennas are similar in strength. Ignacy __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
