Re: [Elecraft] Test serial-to-USB converter

2016-07-20 Thread John R. Lonigro 

Jan,

In the "good old days", you could check a serial port by connecting pin 
2 to pin3 at the end of the serial cable.  Set the port to software 
handshaking (or else connect the control pins together in a similar 
manner-I don't recall the pin numbers). Then run a dumb terminal 
program.  What you type will be echoed to your screen, even with "echo" 
turned off.  If echo is turned on, you'd see what you typed twice.  That 
would prove the signal made it out and back and the interface works.  
The baudrate doesn't matter, as long as it's the same for transmitting 
and receiving.


73,

John AA0VE

Jan,

The best way to test a USB to serial converter is by substitution with
a known good one, or by substitution of a known good working serial
device connected to the questionable converter cable.

Yes, a power surge or a lightning event can damage serial interfaces
as well as USB interfaces.

Since your USB ports on the computer seem to work, borrow a known good
USB to serial converter and try it out - preferably one with an FTDI
chipset.

If you have any other devices that use a serial COM port interface,
see if they work with your USB to serial adapter - if so, the adapter
is probably OK, but remember that in the event of a power surge,
multiple failures are possible even though in normal troubleshooting
we assume only a single failure.

You can test the USB to serial converter with a 'scope and an RS-232
breakout box, but you have to know the proper RS-232 levels to
understand what is happening.  A null modem loopback cable can be
helpful if you have to proper driving software application for that
testing.  I did that during my years of PC modem testing, but that was
more than 30 years ago and the software ran under DOS - not helpful now.

73,
Don W3FPR



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Re: [Elecraft] Test serial-to-USB converter

2016-07-19 Thread Mark E. Musick 
I have solved problems with my laptops in the past as Ron describes.
However, take note that most laptops today do not have removable batteries
or DVD/Blue Ray drives. All in an effort to make the laptops thinner. 

Mark, WB9CIF

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ron
D'Eau Claire
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 3:06 AM
To: 'Rick WA6NHC' <wa6...@gmail.com>; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Test serial-to-USB converter

Absolutely. I had some "strangeness" occur with a Compaq laptop a number of
years ago and support instructed me to remove the battery for a full minute
(they have a "supercapacitor" that must fully discharge) and it fixed the
problem. Subsequently I ran into that with my XYLs Toshiba laptop which was
restored the same way. 

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Rick
WA6NHC
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2016 5:40 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Test serial-to-USB converter

A multitude of USB 'sins' can often be cured by a complete powering down of
the computer, including pulling the power cord (on desktops) and removing
the battery (laptops).  A soft reboot doesn't always reset the hardware but
10+ seconds of zero power to them usually does.  In this condition, the 
10+ only
power in the computer is the RTC battery.

All this test costs is time and most of the time, it works here.

Then make sure that the OS hasn't assigned it/them a new port value
(com2 instead of com5).  You may have to use Device Manager in Windoze to
force it to accepting the value you want.

This is why when I built the shack computer, I went back to using real
serial ports, which are far more stable.

Good luck.

Rick nhc


On 7/18/2016 4:05 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> Jan,
>
> The best way to test a USB to serial converter is by substitution with 
> a known good one, or by substitution of a known good working serial 
> device connected to the questionable converter cable.
>
> Yes, a power surge or a lightning event can damage serial interfaces 
> as well as USB interfaces.
>
> Since your USB ports on the computer seem to work, borrow a known good 
> USB to serial converter and try it out - preferably one with an FTDI 
> chipset.
>
> If you have any other devices that use a serial COM port interface, 
> see if they work with your USB to serial adapter - if so, the adapter 
> is probably OK, but remember that in the event of a power surge, 
> multiple failures are possible even though in normal troubleshooting 
> we assume only a single failure.
>
> You can test the USB to serial converter with a 'scope and an RS-232 
> breakout box, but you have to know the proper RS-232 levels to 
> understand what is happening.  A null modem loopback cable can be 
> helpful if you have to proper driving software application for that 
> testing.  I did that during my years of PC modem testing, but that was 
> more than 30 years ago and the software ran under DOS - not helpful now.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 7/18/2016 6:36 PM, Jan Ditzian wrote:
>> I have a K3 that lost communication with my computer. It uses an 
>> Elecraft serial-to-USB converter and cable.  This probably happened 
>> during a known power surge.  I also lost communication to my MDS 
>> rotor, which uses a built-in USB cable, which I believe may also be a 
>> serial-to-USB arrangement.  I checked things out a bit, and I can 
>> tell that my USB ports all seem to work.  I also tried the K3 with 
>> another computer and was unable to communicate with it.  However, I 
>> also tried a direct serial-to-serial cable from the K3 to the first 
>> computer, which has a serial port, and was also unable to 
>> communicate.  I am now unsure of the location of the problem.  I am 
>> willing to go with whatever works.
>>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Test serial-to-USB converter

2016-07-19 Thread Ron D'Eau Claire 
Absolutely. I had some "strangeness" occur with a Compaq laptop a number of
years ago and support instructed me to remove the battery for a full minute
(they have a "supercapacitor" that must fully discharge) and it fixed the
problem. Subsequently I ran into that with my XYLs Toshiba laptop which was
restored the same way. 

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Rick
WA6NHC
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2016 5:40 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Test serial-to-USB converter

A multitude of USB 'sins' can often be cured by a complete powering down of
the computer, including pulling the power cord (on desktops) and removing
the battery (laptops).  A soft reboot doesn't always reset the hardware but
10+ seconds of zero power to them usually does.  In this condition, the only
power in the computer is the RTC battery.

All this test costs is time and most of the time, it works here.

Then make sure that the OS hasn't assigned it/them a new port value
(com2 instead of com5).  You may have to use Device Manager in Windoze to
force it to accepting the value you want.

This is why when I built the shack computer, I went back to using real
serial ports, which are far more stable.

Good luck.

Rick nhc


On 7/18/2016 4:05 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> Jan,
>
> The best way to test a USB to serial converter is by substitution with 
> a known good one, or by substitution of a known good working serial 
> device connected to the questionable converter cable.
>
> Yes, a power surge or a lightning event can damage serial interfaces 
> as well as USB interfaces.
>
> Since your USB ports on the computer seem to work, borrow a known good 
> USB to serial converter and try it out - preferably one with an FTDI 
> chipset.
>
> If you have any other devices that use a serial COM port interface, 
> see if they work with your USB to serial adapter - if so, the adapter 
> is probably OK, but remember that in the event of a power surge, 
> multiple failures are possible even though in normal troubleshooting 
> we assume only a single failure.
>
> You can test the USB to serial converter with a 'scope and an RS-232 
> breakout box, but you have to know the proper RS-232 levels to 
> understand what is happening.  A null modem loopback cable can be 
> helpful if you have to proper driving software application for that 
> testing.  I did that during my years of PC modem testing, but that was 
> more than 30 years ago and the software ran under DOS - not helpful now.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 7/18/2016 6:36 PM, Jan Ditzian wrote:
>> I have a K3 that lost communication with my computer. It uses an 
>> Elecraft serial-to-USB converter and cable.  This probably happened 
>> during a known power surge.  I also lost communication to my MDS 
>> rotor, which uses a built-in USB cable, which I believe may also be a 
>> serial-to-USB arrangement.  I checked things out a bit, and I can 
>> tell that my USB ports all seem to work.  I also tried the K3 with 
>> another computer and was unable to communicate with it.  However, I 
>> also tried a direct serial-to-serial cable from the K3 to the first 
>> computer, which has a serial port, and was also unable to 
>> communicate.  I am now unsure of the location of the problem.  I am 
>> willing to go with whatever works.
>>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Test serial-to-USB converter

2016-07-19 Thread Ron D'Eau Claire 
Instead of buying a new adapter, you might consider upgrading your K3 with a
KIO3B interface board that contains a built-in USB port. There are several
other enhancements in the KIO3B that may make it a "no-brainer" upgrade!

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jan
Ditzian
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2016 4:26 PM
To: donw...@embarqmail.com; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Test serial-to-USB converter

Don,

Thank you for the suggestions.  I do not have another FTDI cable, but it
seems that this is the way to go, and I can order one from Elecraft (since I
understand that cheaper alternatives my result in a cable that is
incompatible with recent drivers).  As for why the serial to serial did not
work:  I also had a size adapter in there, so that may have been at fault.
The most straightforward test would be replacement.  If that works, I will
contact MDS for a replacement converter as well.

Thank you,

Jan, KX2A


On 7/18/2016 7:05 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> Jan,
>
> The best way to test a USB to serial converter is by substitution with 
> a known good one, or by substitution of a known good working serial 
> device connected to the questionable converter cable.
>
> Yes, a power surge or a lightning event can damage serial interfaces 
> as well as USB interfaces.
>
> Since your USB ports on the computer seem to work, borrow a known good 
> USB to serial converter and try it out - preferably one with an FTDI 
> chipset.
>
> If you have any other devices that use a serial COM port interface, 
> see if they work with your USB to serial adapter - if so, the adapter 
> is probably OK, but remember that in the event of a power surge, 
> multiple failures are possible even though in normal troubleshooting 
> we assume only a single failure.
>
> You can test the USB to serial converter with a 'scope and an RS-232 
> breakout box, but you have to know the proper RS-232 levels to 
> understand what is happening.  A null modem loopback cable can be 
> helpful if you have to proper driving software application for that 
> testing.  I did that during my years of PC modem testing, but that was 
> more than 30 years ago and the software ran under DOS - not helpful now.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 7/18/2016 6:36 PM, Jan Ditzian wrote:
>> I have a K3 that lost communication with my computer. It uses an 
>> Elecraft serial-to-USB converter and cable.  This probably happened 
>> during a known power surge.  I also lost communication to my MDS 
>> rotor, which uses a built-in USB cable, which I believe may also be a 
>> serial-to-USB arrangement.  I checked things out a bit, and I can 
>> tell that my USB ports all seem to work.  I also tried the K3 with 
>> another computer and was unable to communicate with it.  However, I 
>> also tried a direct serial-to-serial cable from the K3 to the first 
>> computer, which has a serial port, and was also unable to 
>> communicate.  I am now unsure of the location of the problem.  I am 
>> willing to go with whatever works.
>>
>
>
>
> -
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2016.0.7688 / Virus Database: 4627/12638 - Release Date: 
> 07/18/16
>
>

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Re: [Elecraft] Test serial-to-USB converter

2016-07-18 Thread Rick WA6NHC 
A multitude of USB 'sins' can often be cured by a complete powering down 
of the computer, including pulling the power cord (on desktops) and 
removing the battery (laptops).  A soft reboot doesn't always reset the 
hardware but 10+ seconds of zero power to them usually does.  In this 
condition, the only power in the computer is the RTC battery.


All this test costs is time and most of the time, it works here.

Then make sure that the OS hasn't assigned it/them a new port value 
(com2 instead of com5).  You may have to use Device Manager in Windoze 
to force it to accepting the value you want.


This is why when I built the shack computer, I went back to using real 
serial ports, which are far more stable.


Good luck.

Rick nhc


On 7/18/2016 4:05 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Jan,

The best way to test a USB to serial converter is by substitution with 
a known good one, or by substitution of a known good working serial 
device connected to the questionable converter cable.


Yes, a power surge or a lightning event can damage serial interfaces 
as well as USB interfaces.


Since your USB ports on the computer seem to work, borrow a known good 
USB to serial converter and try it out - preferably one with an FTDI 
chipset.


If you have any other devices that use a serial COM port interface, 
see if they work with your USB to serial adapter - if so, the adapter 
is probably OK, but remember that in the event of a power surge, 
multiple failures are possible even though in normal troubleshooting 
we assume only a single failure.


You can test the USB to serial converter with a 'scope and an RS-232 
breakout box, but you have to know the proper RS-232 levels to 
understand what is happening.  A null modem loopback cable can be 
helpful if you have to proper driving software application for that 
testing.  I did that during my years of PC modem testing, but that was 
more than 30 years ago and the software ran under DOS - not helpful now.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/18/2016 6:36 PM, Jan Ditzian wrote:
I have a K3 that lost communication with my computer. It uses an 
Elecraft serial-to-USB converter and cable.  This probably happened 
during a known power surge.  I also lost communication to my MDS 
rotor, which uses a built-in USB cable, which I believe may also be a 
serial-to-USB arrangement.  I checked things out a bit, and I can 
tell that my USB ports all seem to work.  I also tried the K3 with 
another computer and was unable to communicate with it.  However, I 
also tried a direct serial-to-serial cable from the K3 to the first 
computer, which has a serial port, and was also unable to 
communicate.  I am now unsure of the location of the problem.  I am 
willing to go with whatever works.




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Re: [Elecraft] Test serial-to-USB converter

2016-07-18 Thread Nr4c 
Call support for assistance. They will walk you through the tests. Have lid off 
and DVM handy. Very simple. 

I had a choke on the ground line go and it was very obvious with visual exam. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Jul 18, 2016, at 6:36 PM, Jan Ditzian  wrote:
> 
> I have a K3 that lost communication with my computer.  It uses an Elecraft 
> serial-to-USB converter and cable.  This probably happened during a known 
> power surge.  I also lost communication to my MDS rotor, which uses a 
> built-in USB cable, which I believe may also be a serial-to-USB arrangement.  
> I checked things out a bit, and I can tell that my USB ports all seem to 
> work.  I also tried the K3 with another computer and was unable to 
> communicate with it.  However, I also tried a direct serial-to-serial cable 
> from the K3 to the first computer, which has a serial port, and was also 
> unable to communicate.  I am now unsure of the location of the problem.  I am 
> willing to go with whatever works.
> 
> Is there a way for me to test the serial-to-USB converter and cable by 
> itself, or otherwise determine whether it is working?
> 
> 73,
> Jan, KX2A
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Re: [Elecraft] Test serial-to-USB converter

2016-07-18 Thread Kevin Cozens 

On 16-07-18 07:25 PM, Jan Ditzian wrote:

I do not have another FTDI cable, but it seems that this is the way to
go, and I can order one from Elecraft (since I understand that cheaper
alternatives my result in a cable that is incompatible with recent
drivers).


If you have some wire you can do a loopback test. If your cable ends in a 
9-pin connector you tie together pins 2 and 3, 4 and 6, and 7 and 8. See 
http://www.ni.com/tutorial/3450/en/


You can try using the Hyperterminal (IIRC) program if you are in Windows to 
test the serial port. I'm not sure what device an FTDI cable may appear to 
be in Windows as I mostly run Linux. If you are using Linux you can use minicom.


--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/   |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're
| powerful!"
#include  | --Chris Hardwick
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Re: [Elecraft] Test serial-to-USB converter

2016-07-18 Thread Cliff Frescura 
Another test you can try is to short pins 2 and 3 on the RS-232 side of the
converter (loop back) and then use a terminal program to see if characters
that you type are echoed back.

Some notes:

1. make sure handshaking is off/none
2. make sure local echo is off
3. data rate does not matter
4. there are several (free) terminal emulation programs out there.
HyperTerminal used to be bundled with XP but is no longer free.  However you
can download a trial version here
http://www.hilgraeve.com/hyperterminal-trial/ 

73,

Cliff K3LL/6

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don
Wilhelm
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2016 4:05 PM
To: Jan Ditzian; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Test serial-to-USB converter

Jan,

The best way to test a USB to serial converter is by substitution with a
known good one, or by substitution of a known good working serial device
connected to the questionable converter cable.

Yes, a power surge or a lightning event can damage serial interfaces as well
as USB interfaces.

Since your USB ports on the computer seem to work, borrow a known good USB
to serial converter and try it out - preferably one with an FTDI chipset.

If you have any other devices that use a serial COM port interface, see if
they work with your USB to serial adapter - if so, the adapter is probably
OK, but remember that in the event of a power surge, multiple failures are
possible even though in normal troubleshooting we assume only a single
failure.

You can test the USB to serial converter with a 'scope and an RS-232
breakout box, but you have to know the proper RS-232 levels to understand
what is happening.  A null modem loopback cable can be helpful if you have
to proper driving software application for that testing.  I did that during
my years of PC modem testing, but that was more than 30 years ago and the
software ran under DOS - not helpful now.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/18/2016 6:36 PM, Jan Ditzian wrote:
> I have a K3 that lost communication with my computer. It uses an 
> Elecraft serial-to-USB converter and cable.  This probably happened 
> during a known power surge.  I also lost communication to my MDS 
> rotor, which uses a built-in USB cable, which I believe may also be a 
> serial-to-USB arrangement.  I checked things out a bit, and I can tell 
> that my USB ports all seem to work.  I also tried the K3 with another 
> computer and was unable to communicate with it.  However, I also tried 
> a direct serial-to-serial cable from the K3 to the first computer, 
> which has a serial port, and was also unable to communicate.  I am now 
> unsure of the location of the problem.  I am willing to go with 
> whatever works.
>

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Re: [Elecraft] Test serial-to-USB converter

2016-07-18 Thread Jan Ditzian 

Don,

Thank you for the suggestions.  I do not have another FTDI cable, but it 
seems that this is the way to go, and I can order one from Elecraft 
(since I understand that cheaper alternatives my result in a cable that 
is incompatible with recent drivers).  As for why the serial to serial 
did not work:  I also had a size adapter in there, so that may have been 
at fault.  The most straightforward test would be replacement.  If that 
works, I will contact MDS for a replacement converter as well.


Thank you,

Jan, KX2A


On 7/18/2016 7:05 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Jan,

The best way to test a USB to serial converter is by substitution with 
a known good one, or by substitution of a known good working serial 
device connected to the questionable converter cable.


Yes, a power surge or a lightning event can damage serial interfaces 
as well as USB interfaces.


Since your USB ports on the computer seem to work, borrow a known good 
USB to serial converter and try it out - preferably one with an FTDI 
chipset.


If you have any other devices that use a serial COM port interface, 
see if they work with your USB to serial adapter - if so, the adapter 
is probably OK, but remember that in the event of a power surge, 
multiple failures are possible even though in normal troubleshooting 
we assume only a single failure.


You can test the USB to serial converter with a 'scope and an RS-232 
breakout box, but you have to know the proper RS-232 levels to 
understand what is happening.  A null modem loopback cable can be 
helpful if you have to proper driving software application for that 
testing.  I did that during my years of PC modem testing, but that was 
more than 30 years ago and the software ran under DOS - not helpful now.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/18/2016 6:36 PM, Jan Ditzian wrote:
I have a K3 that lost communication with my computer. It uses an 
Elecraft serial-to-USB converter and cable.  This probably happened 
during a known power surge.  I also lost communication to my MDS 
rotor, which uses a built-in USB cable, which I believe may also be a 
serial-to-USB arrangement.  I checked things out a bit, and I can 
tell that my USB ports all seem to work.  I also tried the K3 with 
another computer and was unable to communicate with it.  However, I 
also tried a direct serial-to-serial cable from the K3 to the first 
computer, which has a serial port, and was also unable to 
communicate.  I am now unsure of the location of the problem.  I am 
willing to go with whatever works.






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Re: [Elecraft] Test serial-to-USB converter

2016-07-18 Thread Don Wilhelm 

Jan,

The best way to test a USB to serial converter is by substitution with a 
known good one, or by substitution of a known good working serial device 
connected to the questionable converter cable.


Yes, a power surge or a lightning event can damage serial interfaces as 
well as USB interfaces.


Since your USB ports on the computer seem to work, borrow a known good 
USB to serial converter and try it out - preferably one with an FTDI 
chipset.


If you have any other devices that use a serial COM port interface, see 
if they work with your USB to serial adapter - if so, the adapter is 
probably OK, but remember that in the event of a power surge, multiple 
failures are possible even though in normal troubleshooting we assume 
only a single failure.


You can test the USB to serial converter with a 'scope and an RS-232 
breakout box, but you have to know the proper RS-232 levels to 
understand what is happening.  A null modem loopback cable can be 
helpful if you have to proper driving software application for that 
testing.  I did that during my years of PC modem testing, but that was 
more than 30 years ago and the software ran under DOS - not helpful now.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/18/2016 6:36 PM, Jan Ditzian wrote:
I have a K3 that lost communication with my computer. It uses an 
Elecraft serial-to-USB converter and cable.  This probably happened 
during a known power surge.  I also lost communication to my MDS 
rotor, which uses a built-in USB cable, which I believe may also be a 
serial-to-USB arrangement.  I checked things out a bit, and I can tell 
that my USB ports all seem to work.  I also tried the K3 with another 
computer and was unable to communicate with it.  However, I also tried 
a direct serial-to-serial cable from the K3 to the first computer, 
which has a serial port, and was also unable to communicate.  I am now 
unsure of the location of the problem.  I am willing to go with 
whatever works.




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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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