Re: [Elecraft] K4 on-air testing, etc.

[WILLIE BABER]

 Hello All,

I operated in the Classic Exchange event, and on Tuesday evening on 80 meters I 
was surprised by a call from Wayne, n6kr. Wayne was using the K4 (I think he 
was working, hi). Interestingly, I was using a Sierra qrp transceiver that I 
built and that Wayne designed many years ago now. Wayne pointed out that he 
designed the Sierra, but I already knew that as I have, like many others, 
followed Elecraft starting with the Sierra kit (before Elecraft), and then the 
k2 kit, the kx1 kit, and finally k3 (that eventually replaced MP, Orion, and 
Omni VI in multi-two or so2r). 

Thanks for the qso, Wayne.
73, Will, wj9b, dit dit

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/
 On Wednesday, January 15, 2020, 10:12:49 AM PST, Buck 
 wrote:  
 
 The word was the kits would be about 6 months after the first release. 
This allows them to get experience assembling at the factory and allows 
time for writing the assembly manuals.

Buck, k4ia
Honor Roll
8BDXCC
EasyWayHamBooks.com

On 1/14/2020 11:29 PM, Charlie T wrote:
> I'm guessing there's no new info on the K4 kit version yet.
> 
> 73, Charlie k3ICH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On
> Behalf Of Paul Van Dyke
> Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 9:27 PM
> To: Wayne Burdick 
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K4 on-air testing, etc.
> 
> Thank you Wayne
> Looking for it to arrive (along with 1000's of others)
> 
> Paul - KB9AVO/KP2
> chasing from the beach on St Thomas
> KX3 #24, KXPA #22 on A123 batteries
> 
> On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 9:51 PM Wayne Burdick  wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>>
>> We've been making contacts with our K4s as often as possible, often in
>> conjunction with checkout of new software. But the Elecraft CW an SSB
>> nets are another great resource that we've been overlooking. We'll be
>> getting on these nets frequently in the future.
>>
>> Also note that we're going to start releasing K4 operational screen
>> shots as part of a newsletter series that begins soon. The intent is
>> both to inform potential users about how things work and to solicit
>> additional feedback.
>>
>> 73,
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>> pvandyke1...@gmail.com
>>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
> delivered to pin...@erols.com
> 
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to radiok...@gmail.com
> 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net 
  
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] K4 delivery is now in May

[WILLIE BABER]

 K7? Does that imply that Elecraft company makes it to heaven too, with some of 
us? Ok! But are there any 100 foot towers in heaven?

73, Will, wj9b, dit dit


CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/

 On Thursday, January 16, 2020, 5:28:53 AM PST, Dr. William J. Schmidt 
 wrote:  
 
 Whew!  Otherwise we are really screwed on using the K5, K6, and K7...


Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ

> On Jan 15, 2020, at 9:42 PM, Keith N6JPA  wrote:
> 
> Don't worry. I have it on good authority that heaven has a Ham Shack with 
> all of the models. Think positive :-)
> 
> 
>> On 1/15/2020 5:09 PM, Michael Walker wrote:
>> All in good time
>> 
>> The world won’t end and no one will die if it comes out later.
>> 
>> Mike va3mw
>> 
 On Jan 15, 2020, at 8:02 PM, mark roz via Elecraft 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Wow. K4- perhaps first delivery in May now.
>>> Very disappointing.
>>> __
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>> 
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to va...@portcredit.net
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to n6jp...@gmail.com
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to b...@wjschmidt.com
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net   
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] K4 delivery is now in May

[WILLIE BABER]

 I recall the K2 in particular. I received modifications from Elecraft before I 
finished building it. Because I was working so hard at the University, I put K2 
is a box, partially assembled. However, I kept track of every Elecraft 
modification and put them in the box too. Then I purchased an assembled K3. It 
also went through a few changes (remember the replacement of those pins?) and 
well before the improved synthesizer. Still, I did not use exclusive so2r K3 
until 2015 (but I should have done so sooner---I was still using Orion).

I didn't finish building K2 until 2016, four years after I retired! Elecraft 
still had a few parts that I needed. K2 works perfectly, but nothing else I 
have used slices up signals in a contest like K3 with the six-pole 200 hz 
crystal filter. 

So while the delay is unfortunate, I wouldn't worry about Elecraft's final 
product if history is any kind of measure that involves the future. Of course 
time is a real issue, as many of us are running short of it!

I am in my 70th year, and I was one of the younger ones in the hobby, hi.

73, Will, wj9b, dit dit

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/ On Wednesday, January 15, 2020, 11:28:46 PM PST, Buddy 
Brannan  wrote:  
 
 Disappointing? It’s not unusual. Same happened with the 
KX3—production/shipping delays—and, I gather, same happened with the K3 as 
well. I don’t recall if the same delays happened with the KX1 or not. But it’s 
one of those nature of the beast things. I ordered my KX3 just a day or so 
after the announcement of the preorder window came up, and the scheduled 
beginning of production slipped. I think it slipped a couple times. Finally got 
it about a week before Field Day, and it was a sub-500 serial number. Was it 
worth the extra wait? Absolutely, without question it was. It was everything 
I’d hoped for it to be and then some. 


Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Email: bu...@brannan.name
Mobile: (814) 431-0962



> On Jan 15, 2020, at 8:01 PM, mark roz via Elecraft  
> wrote:
> 
> Wow. K4- perhaps first delivery in May now.
> Very disappointing.
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to bu...@brannan.name 

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net   
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] K3 - No RF output

[WILLIE BABER]

 I had a problem with no output, but the radio was keying. I reseated all 
cables going to the synthesizer, and rf output returned. 

73, Will, wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/
 On Monday, June 15, 2020, 01:04:50 AM PDT, G4BVH  
wrote:  
 
 Hi,

 

I have had a fault develop on my K3 whereby there is no RF being produced. I
have emailed the details to Elecraft support and am hoping to receive a
reply with suggestions. However, I thought I would also send the details
here in case anyone can suggest something to try or investigate further.

 

I have a K3, serial number 6482 which I built from a kit. It has worked
flawlessly since I built it. I have the 400Hz and 2.7kHz (2.8kHz?) filters
fitted and the 100W module but no other additions.

 

A few days ago, it was running 20W of FT8 and I suddenly discovered that it
hadn't been transmitting. Everything appeared that it should be
transmitting: the red TX LED was lit, it was not in TEST mode (TX not
flashing) but there was no RF output displayed on the bar graph and
definitely nothing coming out on any mode. There is no RF if I wind down the
power below the 10W level, there is the usual relay click going through 12W
- 13W and still no RF above this level, ie on towards 100W.

 

The K3 metering shows 13.5V and 0.84 on receive, 0.97A on the lower power
level setting and 1.18A on the higher power setting on transmit. The RF
output bar graph always displays 1 bar on transmit no matter what the power
level  is set but there is no RF coming out.

 

I tried the TX calibration but it fails saying the power level didn't reach
that required.

 

The receiver works fine and I can hear the CW side tone and SSB, AM and FM
audio monitoring as normal.

 

I have removed and reseated the front panel and also the 3 coax patch leads
behind the front panel but this made no difference. There is a yellow LED,
D33, on the main board which is lit on receive and goes out on transmit.

 

The latest firmware is installed - I updated this a month or so ago.

 

TX inhibit is OFF and the 20A breaker has not tripped.

 

Any thoughts or suggestions gratefully received.

 

Very many thanks and 73,

 

Peter, G4BVH

 

 



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net 
  
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] New Elecraft K4 has great Rx Audio on CW pileups, no more mush

[WILLIE BABER]

I think the point of the recording was to illustrate receiver recover between 
elements while sending high speed cw. 
I would like to know how much better is k4 than k3, which would mean hearing 
more between elements of cw at high speed; a better recording is needed or one 
has to operate the radio itself.  Bob's opinion does carry some weight however.
FYI, I could not take full advantage of k3 qsk using HP until I got the 
kpa1500. 
73, will, wj9b




CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/ 

On Tuesday, June 23, 2020, 9:22:19 AM PDT, Wayne Burdick 
 wrote:  
 
 Paul,

The K4's DSP smoothly ramps audio up/down during muting. There's no "clamp." 

The artifacts in the recording are not coming from the K4; they're probably due 
to RFI getting into the external recording device's cables, as Bob mentioned in 
his posting.

Wayne


> On Jun 23, 2020, at 9:11 AM, Paul Hvidston  wrote:
> 
> Just sounds like the audio muting during key-down. The K4 speaker
> probably rolls off below 300Hz while your recording has higher fidelity.
> External audio devices would have to roll off the low frequency to avoid
> it. I bet if the K4 used a VCA rather than a simple clamp you probably
> would not hear this on the line-out during keying. No idea if it is
> simple hardware or a DSP operation (easily fixed). Either way, the K4 is
> impressive.
> 
> 72 de Paul/N6MGN
> 
> On 6/23/2020 7:23 AM, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP wrote:
>> I certainly hope the clicking I hear on the sidetone is an artifact of
>> the recording process, or something that will go away with the
>> production version of the K4!
>> 
>> 
>> 73,
>> Victor, 4X6GP
>> Rehovot, Israel
>> Formerly K2VCO
>> CWops no. 5
>> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>> .
>> On 23/06/2020 12:41, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:
>>> Summary:  The K4D Receiver Audio and QSK performance seems
>>> outstanding --
>>> I'm sold.
>>> 
>>> I hesitated to order a K4 until I could hear how one sounded in "real
>>> world" pileup conditions, compared to my trusty 11-year old K3s (S/N
>>> 1494
>>> and 1495 with KSYN3A upgrades).
>>> 
>>> Well, here is a short recording I made while operating a K4D Field Test
>>> unit during the All Asian CW Contest this past weekend, so you can
>>> have a
>>> listen to the QSK performance and the audio tones when several
>>> stations are
>>> calling on about the same frequency all at once, which is the typical
>>> "pileup mush" situation that has been so difficult for most modern
>>> radios
>>> to handle (including the K3):
>>> 
>>> https://www.kkn.net/~n6tv/Pileup_Audio_on_K4D_Field_Test_N6TV.mp3
>>> 
>>> (Headphones recommended).
>>> 
>>> With 2 or 3 guys calling, it seemed *so* much easier to pick out
>>> callsigns
>>> with the K4D, compared to my K3, especially when they were very close in
>>> frequency, which was often.  The audio distortion and "beat note
>>> buzzing" I
>>> still occasionally hear on the K3 is not heard on the K4. *This alone is
>>> reason enough for me to order a second K4D* for SO2R contesting.
>>> 
>>> Note:  The "thumps" and clicks you hear in the recording while I'm
>>> transmitting with full QSK are mostly a side effect of the analog
>>> recording
>>> method  used (rear headphone jack, long cable, ungrounded radio, and
>>> microHAM MK2R+ sound card).  I think some RF is still getting into the
>>> MK2R+ despite lots of ferrites.  The "thumps" are not heard in the front
>>> panel headphone jack of the K4.  The stereo USB Sound in the K4D
>>> won't have
>>> these issues.
>>> 
>>> I also toggled PRE1 and NR (level 4) when a weak one would call, and it
>>> really seemed to help pull them out of the noise.  I put both
>>> receivers on
>>> the same frequency and used A/B to toggle both settings ON and OFF at
>>> the
>>> same time with a single tap (Main RX had PRE OFF and NR OFF, Sub RX had
>>> PRE1 ON and NR ON, and I would swap them).  I modified my Win-Test
>>> scripts
>>>  so I could swap A/B from the keyboard of my
>>> logging program.  I've also made scope control work from the Win-Test
>>> keyboard, as with my P3 scripts.  The radio responds to CAT commands
>>> instantly, as does the touch screen display.
>>> 
>>> Unlike the K3, I could keep the RF Gain at MAX and hear no real problem
>>> until the bands got really noisy, then backing it off helped a bit,
>>> as did
>>> the attenuator.  But I like the way the fast AGC worked.  Loud stations
>>> never hammered my ears, and there's a new "AGC attack time" setting
>>> that we
>>> don't have in the K3 that will require further experimentation.
>>> 
>>> As for QSK, I went back and forth between QSK ON and QSK OFF, Delay
>>> 0.00.
>>> There's a huge difference.  QSK OFF Delay 0.00 is much quieter, but I
>>> like
>>> to hear more between elements.
>>> 
>>> QSK performance was *way* better than the K3, especially at high
>>> speed (I
>>> went up to 39 WPM).  Amp. is a KPA1500.  No CW jitter was observed,
>>> so "CW
>>> QRQ" mode is no longer needed to send cle

[Elecraft] Kpa500

[WILLIE BABER]

I received kpa500k yesterday evening, about 4:30 pm. I was done building it at 
about 1:30 am, with time out for supper.  I did the HV test before going to bed.
...very easy build; however, I was already familiar with the hardware sizes 
which could otherwise slow down assembly.
I like the small size of kpa500 given its power output with a built in power 
supply.
73, will, wj9b
CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] New CW audio recording: K3 vs. K4D

[WILLIE BABER]

I like k2 audio too but it seems that some of the difference compared to k3 is 
the lower I-F gain in k2.  So I reduced I-F gain in k3.
K2 audio still wins but nothing I have used here slices through cw pileups like 
k3, or hears a weak signal better.
The main action I took to enjoy k3 audio was to reduce the CW offset  to 500 
hz, quite by accident, which is much lower than what sounds good to me on other 
radios, usually around 600 hz to 700 hz.
My interest in k4 is to see what Elecraft can do that is better, based on 
having proven (at least to me) that k3 is easily  #1 compared to all other 
radios I have used in cw contests (in selectivity, weak signal, and qsk when 
using pin-diode switched amps).
Of course some other radios come close, the second best I have used is Tentec 
Orion.
73, Will, wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/ 

On Thursday, June 25, 2020, 6:32:28 AM MDT,  
wrote:  
 
 I would have to say both sound better then my KX3 speaker.  ;-)  And I'm 
waiting for my 
K4D!  BTW, the recording doesn't sound as good and my K2.  :-)  So we'll see if 
the K4 can 
hold up against the K2.  :-)
-- 
73, William KT5TE

On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 10:32:51 PM CDT Macy monkeys wrote:
> Overall, the K3 sounded a little smoother to my ears. I do not own a K3 nor
> have I ordered a K4. But I would be happy with either one!
> 
> John K7FD
> 
> > On Jun 24, 2020, at 7:24 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV  wrote:
> > 
> > 73,
> 
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to kt...@watershipfarm.com



__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net 
  
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] K3 to K3S Upgrade Opinions

[WILLIE BABER]

My experience is similar to Stefan's. In so2r I typically used k3 as the S and 
P radio (but only after getting the the DSP board swap change). I used Orion as 
the run radio (and before that, Omni VI).

Other than on-the-air experience with radio equipment (my own as well as at 
ny4a M/M), the guide for me vis-a-vis radio performance is in two texts: Solid 
State Design for the Radio Amateur (1977, Wes Hayward and Doug DeMaw) and 
Introduction to Radio Frequency Design (1982, Wes Hayward).  On the one hand, 
this dates me (ok, so I am 67 years old, but I am still here and every day 
counts)!  On the other hand, how long does it take to understand and use a 
given level of technological excellence (as noted in the two texts), say in a 
cw contest (answer: far longer than the next "best ever produced" radio)?  BTW, 
after reading the above texts it was easy to understand the superior 
performance of Ten-Tec Omni series of radios compared to imports. Ten-Tec 
radios had later-to-be-named "roofing filters."

I was using Orion (revolution in synthesizer performance), mainly, but with the 
introduction of the new Elecraft synthesizer, I had my 2008 K3 fitted with one 
(plus any other mod that Elecraft wanted to include while they had the radio) 
and I purchased another K3.  So since early 2015? (anyway, right before K3s was 
released), I have been so2r K3, with dynamic range and phase noise second to no 
other radio.  In short, a (late model) K3 with synthesizer board (or an updated 
early K3 like one of mine) is as good as K3s for my purpose.  This perception 
has come from on-the-air experience, guided by the above text, as well as 
integration of the so2r system.

In K3s, the second preamp is not needed on 10m; you may need the preamp on 6m.  
I use K3 160m-10m, HF contest bands only.  Having the ability to disable the K3 
preamp and/or put in 10 db of attenuation works fine 160m through 20m.  K3S has 
10db more blocking (150db!), but 140 db of blocking in K3 is already remarkable 
in that 130 db is outstanding.  The digital mode change of K3s would be 
desirable by digital mode ops, I suspect. 

My so2r system, here and now, is far more integrated and functional compared to 
anything I have used in the past.  One reason I don't want to change anything 
is because everything works as I wish, for the first time (this also includes 
software, tr4w  preferred)!  Of course my purpose is defined by cw only, and 
not by all modes.

I can think of small changes in preferences only (tied to using other radios), 
or different ergonomics. But at this point in time I have been trained by the 
K3 radios.  When I see other radios offering "this or that" function or 
performance, my main thought is "you don't know me that well;" the main part of 
the equation is me and what I have learned over the years.

Excluding so2r cw challenges, then I would find other radios to be just as good 
as K3 and better is some specific way, or another, or certainly more "cutting 
edge" SDR (but for what purpose?).

73, Will, wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Sat, 5/19/18, Stefan von Baltz, DL1IAO  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 to K3S Upgrade Opinions
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Date: Saturday, May 19, 2018, 3:49 AM
 
 Hello Frank,
 
 As of recently I have both a K3 (without
 upgrades) and a K3S. The improvements which stick out for me
 are the improved CW timing of the new synthesizer at speeds
 above 32WPM or so, the easiness and ruggedness of the new
 internal soundcard when setting up digital modes, the
 selectable attenuation levels between 0 and 15db per band
 and, yes, the soft-touch VFO A grip. I have not seen the
 need to use preamp 2 but this may be because of my noisy
 environment causing S-meter action even on a dead 10m band.
 Others love it for weak-signal work.
 
 While the new attenuator is not available as an
 upgrade most other things are. It boils down to your
 personal needs. If you have been happy with the rig as it is
 then there is little reason to upgrade. Personally I had
 given up on the K3 early on because of the CW timing issues
 which are explained in great detail by N6TV (see links).
 Now, the K3S is my preferred CW rig.
 
 http://lists.f5mzn.org/pipermail/support/2013-November/083384.html
 http://mldxcc.org/n6tv-k3.pdf
 
 You may consider selling your
 K3 as it is (maybe saving the roofing filters) and get a
 used K3S depending on prices on the second-hand market.
 
 
 
 73,
 
 Stefan
 DL1IAO, SA3CWW/SM9A
 
 
 --
 Stefan v. Baltz
 dl1...@contesting.com
 http://www.dl1iao.com
 
 
 
 
 
 > Am
 19.05.2018 um 07:21 schrieb Frank :
 > 
 > I have a K3 with
 dual receivers that I purchased 5 years ago at Dayton.  It
 is the best radio I have ever owned hands down.  My main
 use for the radio is chasing DX.
 > 
 > I have read all the marketing materials
 about the improvements the K3S has over the K3.  On paper
 and in the lab th

Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] Boldly OT: 6 meter Sporadic-E season and the FT-8 microjuggernaut

[WILLIE BABER]

Stop Dave. Will you stop Dave?  What do you think you are doing, Dave?

--

73, Will, wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Fri, 6/1/18, rich hurd WC3T  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] Boldly OT: 6 meter Sporadic-E season and the 
FT-8 microjuggernaut
 To: "Charlie T" 
 Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Date: Friday, June 1, 2018, 4:02 PM
 
 Just remember, a computer's
 attention span is exactly as long as itspower
 cord.  ;)
 
 On
 Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 17:43 Charlie T 
 wrote:
 
 > My computer
 just kicked me out of the shack with some really scary
 threats
 > if I even attempted to
 "pull the plug" while it was working toward
 DXCC
 > (which I already have on 6M SSB)
 on 50 MHz.
 >
 > Seems I
 gave it a tad TOO much control over the station.
 >
 > Now I'm afraid to
 even go into the room while the band's open.  The
 damn
 > thing has taken over and doing it
 all, including internet QSL's.
 >
 > Even the cats are hiding in the
 basement.
 >
 > Oh well,
 there's always Andy Griffith re-runs on the old-time TV
 channels.
 >
 > 73,
 Charlie k3ICH
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 __
 > Elecraft mailing list
 >
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 >
 > This list hosted by:
 http://www.qsl.net
 >
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 > Message delivered to r...@wc3t.us
 >
 -- 
 72,
 Rich Hurd / WC3T / DMR: 3142737
 PA Army MARS, Northampton County RACES,
 EPA-ARRL Public Information Officer
 for
 Scouting
 Latitude: 40.761621 Longitude:
 -75.288988  (40°45.68' N 75°17.33' W) Grid:
 *FN20is*
 __
 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] KPA-1500 Fan Noise - YouTube ?

[WILLIE BABER]

While running stations on 160m at a high rate, the finals of an Omni VI got so 
hot that output dropped to zero.  Once the finals cooled for maybe about five 
minutes, full output returned.  We then put a small fan on the heat sink fins 
and experienced no further problem.  No damage at all to the components.  
Unfortunately, the same Omni VI was hit by lightning some years later.

73, Will, wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Sat, 6/2/18, Gmail - George  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA-1500 Fan Noise - YouTube ?
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Date: Saturday, June 2, 2018, 6:10 AM
 
 One other thought to keep in mind
 - solid state amps need a lower delta T 
 than tube amps. Tubes like to run hot - solid
 state devices not so much.
 
 I've seen a tube with the fins so hot that
 the solder was in globs, while 
 the
 transmitter was still operating. I doubt any solid state
 final would 
 have survived that heat.
 
 When we installed our solid
 state TV transmitter, it was a new learning 
 curve in cooling. Both transmitters were 30 kW
 class AB1. The tube 
 transmitter moved air
 faster through 3 tubes but had almost 3 times the 
 temperature rise than the specs for the solid
 state transmitter. Our HVAC 
 company and
 architect worked on several complex systems with air mixers
 
 until we just decided to use wall mounted
 air conditioners into the room 
 behind the
 transmitter racks and exhausted to the front of the
 transmitters.
 
 Our solid
 state transmitter did meet the OSHA limit for 8 hours
 exposure to 
 noise but just barely. It was
 very noisy compared to the tube unit.
 
 No tube transmitter I have ever used had a
 temperature shut down on any of 
 the tube
 stages.
 
 73 George AI4VZ
 
 
 
 -Original Message- 
 From: Don Wilhelm
 
 Only one bit of correction.  If the output
 power is 1500 watts and the
 efficiency is
 50%, that 1500 watts is only half the total power
 consumed, so there is 1500 watts of power that
 must be exhausted as heat.
 
 __
 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net
 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] KPA-1500 Fan Noise

[WILLIE BABER]

I have a Lunar-LInk System 72 (432 mhz) Amplifier using a pair of 3cx800 
(perfectly designed by K1FO SK), in a cubic package that may actually be 
smaller than the KPA1500 (of course the power supply is external, and the 
blower and T/R relays are attached to the back of the amp).  I had a choice of 
Dayton blowers, one for ssb/cw (60 CFM if I recall correctly) and one for 
moon-bounce or key-down modes (100 CFM, I think).  I got the 100 CFM blower, 
anyway the one that moves more air; 100 CFM makes a lot more noise!

The only discussion about blower noise was to provide this choice (sometime 
after I got my unit it became possible to purchase the 100 CFM blower but it 
ran at two speeds). 

I imagine that levels 4, and 5 are related to key down modes in KPA1500, and 
maybe level 3 as well.  I suppose one can reduce fan or blower noise to some 
extent by paying attention to relevant details about fan and noise but all 
significant variables held constant (like the size of the amp and the power 
output), there is no free lunch (as usual), solid-state or not.

I recall the conduction cooled amps (no fan, no noise), one by Henry Radio (2 x 
8873) and another by Heathkit (one 8873).  You had to reduce power 
significantly for key-down modes, and neither amp made 1500 watts output rtty 
key-down (1000 watts cw for the Henry--but of course this was before the 
current maximum legal power output).  Still, how long you could hold down the 
key depended upon ventilation of the amplifier. Heathkit recommended only 200 
watts output for rtty.  I imagine guys placed fans (making some noise) near the 
heatsinks!

So, to put this into perspective, how long the key can be held down using 
kpa1500 at 1500 watts output power may have something to do with fan speed 
number five!  

If you want "almost silent high power", then try running kpa1500 at 500 watts 
output (about like a conduction cooled amp--but don't hold that key down too 
long without ventilation).

73, Will. wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Sat, 6/2/18, Jim via Elecraft  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA-1500 Fan Noise
 To: "John Perlick" 
 Cc: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
 Date: Saturday, June 2, 2018, 6:20 AM
 
 I don’t have a dog in this
 fight - someone who spends half the year (the half with all
 the good contests) in a Florida condo is not a candidate for
 buying amps. But might water cooling be a possibility? As in
 a heat sink that sits in water, with appropriate thermal
 shutoff if the water/amp get too warm? 
 
 And when that happens, get fresh cool water.
 
 
 73  - 
 Jim   K8MR
 
 
 > On Jun 2, 2018, at 4:06 AM, John Perlick
 
 wrote:
 > 
 > Bill
 Schmidt is right--you have to get rid of a bunch of heat--no
 matter what device you are using to amplify (tubes,
 transistors, or magic). The amplifying device must dissipate
 considerable heat because we are running Class AB and
 because of all electronic devices are naturally lossy. 
 > 
 > Remember that this
 heat is generated not only in the RF transistors, but also
 in the power supplies, bias circuits, lights, etc.  There
 are lots of heat sources in every amplifier.
 > 
 > I can honestly say
 that my KPA1500 is considerably quieter than the Expert 2KFA
 that I just sold and I would have to say it is quieter than
 my old Alpha 87A.  I do operate it at full 1.5 KW output
 but I suspect my duty cycle on CW has not caused it to so
 how that the fans max out.  Same for the 2KFA, but even at
 low speeds, it was far noisier.  And, the 2KFA has REALLY
 loud T/R relays!  
 >
 __
 > Elecraft mailing list
 >
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 > 
 > This list hosted by:
 http://www.qsl.net
 >
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 > Message delivered to jimk...@aol.com
 
 __
 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise - Not An Issue

[WILLIE BABER]

I imagine that if enough heat can be removed fast enough KPA1500 would run 
key-down forever at 1500 watts output.  That is why fan levels 4 and 5 are so 
loud, to give those five minutes on (and take five minutes off) without the 
amplifier overheating and forcing a hard fault.  Hard faults force KPA1500 into 
standby, to protect itself.  

If you generate excessive forward power the amp will attenuate the excessive 
power and warn you with a yellow LED.  If you continue to demand excessive 
power then you will get a hard fault and what sounds like a scream, along with 
a red LED.  This must mean STOP!

"Dave, Dave.  What are you doing Dave?"

73, Will, wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Tue, 6/5/18, Walter Underwood  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise - Not An Issue
 To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
 Date: Tuesday, June 5, 2018, 1:01 AM
 
 I would recommend reading the
 specs. As I remember, it is ICAS, five minutes on, five
 minutes off. But you should check for yourself.
 
 wunder
 K6WRU
 Walter Underwood
 CM87wj
 http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my
 blog)
 
 > On Jun 4, 2018,
 at 5:06 PM, Paul Baldock 
 wrote:
 > 
 > Can the
 KPA1500 run brick down 100% duty cycle at 1500W while
 maintaining the temperature in a safe range? Anybody tried
 it?
 > 
 > - Paul
 > 
 >
 __
 > Elecraft mailing list
 >
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 > 
 > This list hosted by:
 http://www.qsl.net
 >
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 > Message delivered to wun...@wunderwood.org
 
 __
 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net
 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Field Day rig experience

[WILLIE BABER]

More then one so2r operator has noted that the 7300 will overload in an so2r 
situation so that you cannot clearly hear on 7300 when the other radio is 
transmitting (yes, on a different band).  Since the 7610 doesn't have a 
front-end either, I imagine that it will do the same.  Sherwood himself notes 
that using the SDR radio (i.e, without a superhet front-end) means reducing 
gain to limit ADC overload, but he has also suggested that blocking dynamic 
range is over-rated.  Generally this is true, dynamic range is over-rated if 
you are using one radio.  However, blocking isn't over-rated in a field day 
situation (more than one radio) or if you have a neighboring op running high 
power, or in legal-limit multi-op situations (with antennas relatively close to 
each other), or in legal-limit so2r.

Reducing sensitivity works to prevent ADC overload on the lower bands where 
sensitivity is not needed in the first place but on 15m through 6m one can use 
the sensitivity.  While SDR radios have their advantages, some of the 
advantages of superhet radios still exist today, namely, that a so-called 
roofing filter front-end (which is just a mode-specific filter ahead of the 
first mixer) will deliver outstanding blocking AND as much sensitivity as 
required (compared to SDR).

I don't see any way around this fact (at least not yet) and you can see the 
difference in the Sherwood numbers.

73, Will, wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Sat, 6/9/18, Wayne Burdick  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Field Day rig experience
 To: "Bill" 
 Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" 
 Date: Saturday, June 9, 2018, 10:34 AM
 
 
 > On Jun 9,
 2018, at 5:24 AM, Bill 
 wrote:
 > 
 > Along the
 line (lightly discussed under "K3- AF Knob") of
 what rigs are used for dxpeditions and Field Day..  How
 do the new technology ICOMs (7300 and 7610) do under the
 "several rigs on the same band" conditions? The
 size, weight, and cost factor is inviting for the 7300 -
 BUT!!! Is it up to the job? Close to up to the job? Or,
 better left home during these events?
 
 
 Hi Bill,
 
 Hopefully you’ll get some responses to this
 question from those with direct experience. But looking at
 it theoretically: both the 7300 and 7610 are direct-sampling
 radios with about 25-30 dB less blocking dynamic range than
 the K3 or K3S. On Field Day this could have a definite
 impact when using multiple transmitters on the same band, or
 even on different bands, depending on antenna spacing and
 power level used. 
 
 Dynamic
 range of all of these radios is quantified in the receiver
 performance table at www.sherweng.com, specifically the
 fifth column (“100 kHz Blocking”).
 
 Wayne
 
 
 
 __
 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Field Day rig experience

[WILLIE BABER]

Robert is talking about the crystal filters, also known as roofing filters 
now-days, that are typically placed after the first mixer (I mistakenly typed 
"ahead" but I meant "after" as Robert notes), though there is a post amp and NB 
before these filters in K2 and K3.  

The idea is that a crystal filter right after the first mixer gives high 
dynamic range because high selectivity comes before the receiver has developed 
stages of gain that otherwise could cause blocking or IMD, especially when 
selectivity is postponed to the second mixer while ignoring gain distribution 
in prior stages of the receiver.  This basic idea was popularized in Solid 
State Design for the Radio Amateur, and it was applied to Ten-Tec radios for 
decades (at a 9 mhz I-F).

Roofing filter gets defined in relationship to Japanese radios that had up 
conversion 15 khz filters at the first I-F, and generally lower dynamic range 
as a result, (but you got all modes, general coverage, and optional crystal 
filters at the second I-F). 

Good for everyone radios but with lower dynamic range and phase noise from 
the early synthesizers.  This is why Ten-Tec radios were so popular among 
contesters, especially Omni V and VI (modified with a narrow cw filter at the 
first I-F).

73, Will, wj9b



CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Wed, 6/13/18, Jim Brown  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Field Day rig experience
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Date: Wednesday, June 13, 2018, 10:36 AM
 
 On 6/12/2018 4:50 PM, Robert G
 Strickland wrote:
 > A small nit...
 perhaps my ignorance... but, I think that the roofing 
 > filter [by whatever name] comes after the
 first mixer, at the 
 > so-called IF
 frequency.
 
 A month or so
 ago, as part of a project to measure input Z of receivers
 
 and preamps, I measured the 2nd RX of my K3
 as 50 ohms and with a 
 bandpass filter
 between the antenna input and the 50 ohm load. Clearly, 
 in the K3, there is a "per band"
 bandpass filter ahead of the first RF 
 stage.
 
 73, Jim
 K9YC
 
 __
 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net
 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Field Day rig experience

[WILLIE BABER]

Hello Wes,

I took a look.  Both designs are using the idea of "roofing filter" to refer to 
up-conversion radios similar to the use of up-conversion 3khz filters as 
roofing filters in Icom radios.

"Roofing filter" (a mode specific filter after the first mixer including narrow 
cw filters) only makes sense in the context  of the history of superhet design 
and in particular the use of one broad 15 khz first I-F (so that all modes may 
pass through it) typical of all Japanese radios until recently.  Calling a 45 
mhz filter at the first I-F a "roofing filter" as noted in the info you sent 
entirely misses the point of what roofing filter means.  Or, to put it another 
way, all Ten-Tec radios had roofing filters in them (and were ssb and cw only) 
well before the term roofing filter was coined!  Which is why an Omni C will 
out perform any wide (15 khz) first I-F Japanese radio, even those built well 
after the 1980 vintage Omni C.

Unless mode specific up-conversion crystal filters can be made and as narrow as 
200 hz (this is possible with down-conversion) then "roofing filter" and up 
conversion doesn't make sense historically or in reality.  

Actually, Icom says that did it with 1.2khz filter at 64 mhz in the Icom 7851, 
though I'm not convinced the filter is that narrow, and 1.2khz is far from the 
200hz filter that my K3 has in it (however, the placement of this filter is why 
the 7851 is among the best radios in Sherwood's chart, on cw).

It is possible to make very narrow and precise crystal filters as narrow as the 
200 hz inexpensively, and this is the point of having multiple roofing filters 
at the first I-F.  So, this is the origin of the term roofing filter---in 
comparison to the barn-door up conversion first I-F.

73, Will, wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Wed, 6/13/18, Wes Stewart  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Field Day rig experience
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Date: Wednesday, June 13, 2018, 3:08 PM
 
 Certainly not to disparage the
 K3(S) architecture (I have two of them) there is 
 nothing inherently wrong with an up-conversion
 receiver, if modern hardware is used.
 
 See: https://martein.home.xs4all.nl/pa3ake/hmode/g3sbi_intro.html
 
 and my friend Cornell's,
 Star-10 transceiver. 
 https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/eb33/5c12858779a653d9b9b93ca20120aebb7616.pdf
 
 Wes  N7WS
 
 
   On 6/13/2018 11:38 AM, WILLIE BABER
 wrote:
 > Robert is talking about the
 crystal filters, also known as roofing filters now-days,
 that are typically placed after the first mixer (I
 mistakenly typed "ahead" but I meant
 "after" as Robert notes), though there is a post
 amp and NB before these filters in K2 and K3.
 >
 > The idea is that a
 crystal filter right after the first mixer gives high
 dynamic range because high selectivity comes before the
 receiver has developed stages of gain that otherwise could
 cause blocking or IMD, especially when selectivity is
 postponed to the second mixer while ignoring gain
 distribution in prior stages of the receiver.  This basic
 idea was popularized in Solid State Design for the Radio
 Amateur, and it was applied to Ten-Tec radios for decades
 (at a 9 mhz I-F).
 >
 >
 Roofing filter gets defined in relationship to Japanese
 radios that had up conversion 15 khz filters at the first
 I-F, and generally lower dynamic range as a result, (but you
 got all modes, general coverage, and optional crystal
 filters at the second I-F).
 >
 > Good for everyone radios but with
 lower dynamic range and phase noise from the early
 synthesizers.  This is why Ten-Tec radios were so popular
 among contesters, especially Omni V and VI (modified with a
 narrow cw filter at the first I-F).
 >
 > 73, Will, wj9b
 >
 
 __
 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Field Day rig experience

[WILLIE BABER]

Wes,

"A "Roofing filter" is simply a filter in the radio's first IF through which 
all signals must pass before they will be "seen" by later receiver stages. The 
narrower this filter is, the less exposure later stages will have. Thus a 
"narrow" roofing filter is desirable -- but "narrow" is relative, as I'll 
explain."

What Elecraft said (above) is exactly what I said.  Moreover, Elecraft's 
explanation is required because the term roofing filter is now applied to 
up-conversion in multiple conversion radios (with relatively wide first I-F 
filters compared to what is achievable at a low first I-F) which is what the 
term initially sought to rebuff in the first place, also my point.

73, Will, wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Thu, 6/14/18, Wes Stewart  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Field Day rig experience
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Date: Thursday, June 14, 2018, 4:47 PM
 
 Will,
 
 First of all I have said before and will repeat
 it, I detest the term "roofing 
 filter."  That said, by the generally
 accepted definition, you are wrong. See 
 Elecraft's take on this:
 
 http://www.elecraft.com/K3/Roofing_Filters.htm
 
 If you will think in
 Wayne's terms, the post-mixer filter is a
 "protective" 
 filter, not a
 mode-specific filter.  So the question becomes, how much
 
 protection is necessary?  In
 Elecraft's case, quite a lot, IMHO.  With its QRP 
 DNA, Elecraft uses post crystal filter
 circuitry that minimizes current 
 consumption.  The trade off for this is the
 need for a bank of pricey crystal 
 filters
 to limit the frequencies that the circuitry is exposed
 to.
 
 Now what if the
 subsequent circuitry doesn't require this much
 protection 
 because it is more robust?  We
 now have direct-sampling radios that can digitize 
 a whole ham band with good performance. If the
 BW was limited to 10-15 kHz in an 
 up
 conversion configuration they should be even better.  The
 limitation now 
 becomes LO phase noise, but
 newer synthesizer designs overcome that obstacle.  
 Another thing to note is that IMD in crystal
 filters is reported to be inversely 
 proportional to BW. So a wider filter might
 actually be better from that 
 perspective. 
 Some Elecraft filters exhibit passive IMD BTW.
 
 Wes  N7WS
 
 On 6/14/2018 8:01 AM, WILLIE BABER wrote:
 > Hello Wes,
 >
 > I took a look.  Both designs are using
 the idea of "roofing filter" to refer to
 up-conversion radios similar to the use of up-conversion
 3khz filters as roofing filters in Icom radios.
 >
 > "Roofing
 filter" (a mode specific filter after the first mixer
 including narrow cw filters) only makes sense in the
 context  of the history of superhet design and in
 particular the use of one broad 15 khz first I-F (so that
 all modes may pass through it) typical of all Japanese
 radios until recently.  Calling a 45 mhz filter at the
 first I-F a "roofing filter" as noted in the info
 you sent entirely misses the point of what roofing filter
 means.  Or, to put it another way, all Ten-Tec radios had
 roofing filters in them (and were ssb and cw only) well
 before the term roofing filter was coined!  Which is why an
 Omni C will out perform any wide (15 khz) first I-F Japanese
 radio, even those built well after the 1980 vintage Omni
 C.
 >
 > Unless mode
 specific up-conversion crystal filters can be made and as
 narrow as 200 hz (this is possible with down-conversion)
 then "roofing filter" and up conversion
 doesn't make sense historically or in reality.
 >
 > Actually, Icom says
 that did it with 1.2khz filter at 64 mhz in the Icom 7851,
 though I'm not convinced the filter is that narrow, and
 1.2khz is far from the 200hz filter that my K3 has in it
 (however, the placement of this filter is why the 7851 is
 among the best radios in Sherwood's chart, on cw).
 >
 > It is possible to
 make very narrow and precise crystal filters as narrow as
 the 200 hz inexpensively, and this is the point of having
 multiple roofing filters at the first I-F.  So, this is the
 origin of the term roofing filter---in comparison to the
 barn-door up conversion first I-F.
 >
 > 73, Will, wj9b
 >
 > CWops #1085
 > CWA
 Advisor levels II and III
 > http://cwops.org/
 >
 >
 
 > On Wed, 6/13/18, Wes Stewart 
 wrote:
 >
 >   Subject:
 Re: [Elecraft] Field Day rig experience
 >   To:elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 >   Date: Wednesday, June 13, 2018, 3:08
 PM
 >   
 >  
 Certainly not to disparage the
 >   K3(S)
 architecture (I have two of them) there is
 >   nothing inherently wrong with an
 up-conversion
 >   receiver, if modern
 hardware is used.
 >   
 >   See:https://martein.home.xs4all.

Re: [Elecraft] Field Day rig experience

[WILLIE BABER]

 receivers, but their dynamic range was
 poor. Crystal filters are 
 expensive, but
 until we have fast ADC's linear to at least 24 bits, 
 they're necessary to get that kind of
 dynamic range.
 
 I've
 often wondered if any other communication system requires
 the close 
 in dynamic range we do.  Why
 would anyone design a system that allowed 
 signals 2 kHz apart to differ in strength by
 140 dB?
 
 73,
 Scott K9MA
 
 
 
 
 On 6/14/2018
 20:33, WILLIE BABER wrote:
 > Wes,
 >
 > "A "Roofing
 filter" is simply a filter in the radio's first IF
 through which all signals must pass before they will be
 "seen" by later receiver stages. The narrower this
 filter is, the less exposure later stages will have. Thus a
 "narrow" roofing filter is desirable -- but
 "narrow" is relative, as I'll
 explain."
 >
 >
 What Elecraft said (above) is exactly what I said. 
 Moreover, Elecraft's explanation is required because the
 term roofing filter is now applied to up-conversion in
 multiple conversion radios (with relatively wide first I-F
 filters compared to what is achievable at a low first I-F)
 which is what the term initially sought to rebuff in the
 first place, also my point.
 >
 > 73, Will, wj9b
 >
 > CWops #1085
 > CWA
 Advisor levels II and III
 > http://cwops.org/
 >
 >
 
 > On Thu, 6/14/18, Wes Stewart 
 wrote:
 >
 >   Subject:
 Re: [Elecraft] Field Day rig experience
 >   To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 >   Date: Thursday, June 14, 2018, 4:47
 PM
 >   
 >   Will,
 >   
 >   First of all I
 have said before and will repeat
 >   it,
 I detest the term "roofing
 >  
 filter."  That said, by the generally
 >   accepted definition, you are wrong.
 See
 >   Elecraft's take on this:
 >   
 >   http://www.elecraft.com/K3/Roofing_Filters.htm
 >   
 >   If you will
 think in
 >   Wayne's terms, the
 post-mixer filter is a
 >  
 "protective"
 >   filter, not
 a
 >   mode-specific filter.  So the
 question becomes, how much
 >   
 >   protection is necessary?  In
 >   Elecraft's case, quite a lot,
 IMHO.  With its QRP
 >   DNA, Elecraft
 uses post crystal filter
 >   circuitry
 that minimizes current
 >  
 consumption.  The trade off for this is the
 >   need for a bank of pricey crystal
 >   filters
 >   to
 limit the frequencies that the circuitry is exposed
 >   to.
 >   
 >   Now what if the
 >  
 subsequent circuitry doesn't require this much
 >   protection
 >  
 because it is more robust?  We
 >   now
 have direct-sampling radios that can digitize
 >   a whole ham band with good performance.
 If the
 >   BW was limited to 10-15 kHz
 in an
 >   up
 >  
 conversion configuration they should be even better. 
 The
 >   limitation now
 >   becomes LO phase noise, but
 >   newer synthesizer designs overcome that
 obstacle.
 >   Another thing to note is
 that IMD in crystal
 >   filters is
 reported to be inversely
 >  
 proportional to BW. So a wider filter might
 >   actually be better from that
 >   perspective.
 >  
 Some Elecraft filters exhibit passive IMD BTW.
 >   
 >   Wes  N7WS
 >   
 >   On 6/14/2018
 8:01 AM, WILLIE BABER wrote:
 >   >
 Hello Wes,
 >   >
 >   > I took a look.  Both designs are
 using
 >   the idea of "roofing
 filter" to refer to
 >  
 up-conversion radios similar to the use of up-conversion
 >   3khz filters as roofing filters in Icom
 radios.
 >   >
 >  
 > "Roofing
 >   filter" (a
 mode specific filter after the first mixer
 >   including narrow cw filters) only makes
 sense in the
 >   context  of the
 history of superhet design and in
 >  
 particular the use of one broad 15 khz first I-F (so that
 >   all modes may pass through it) typical
 of all Japanese
 >   radios until
 recently.  Calling a 45 mhz filter at the
 >   first I-F a "roofing filter"
 as noted in the info
 >   you sent
 entirely misses the point of what roofing filter
 >   means.  Or, to put it another way, all
 Ten-Tec radios had
 >   roofing filters
 in them (and were ssb and cw only) well
 >   before the term roofing filter was
 coined!  Which is why an
 >   Omni C
 will out perform any wide (15 khz) first I-F Japanese
 >   radio, even those built well after the
 1980 vintage Omni
 >   C.
 >   >
 >   >
 Unless mode
 >   specific up-conversion
 crystal filters can be made and as
 >  
 narrow as 200 hz (this is possible with down-conversion)
 >   then "roofing filter" and up
 conversion
 >   doesn't make sense
 historically or in reality.
 >   >
 >   > Actually, Icom says
 >   that did it with 1.2khz

[Elecraft] 432 transverter?

[WILLIE BABER]

I guess Elecraft  suspended the production of its 432 transverter kt...I went 
looking to possible purchase one, and it is not listed.  Any information as to 
whether it will be produced again?

73, Will, wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

[WILLIE BABER]

I like the size and weight of K3 also.  K3 fits right underneath the seat in 
front of you as a carry on, and K3 is as good or better than an Orion or 
FT-5000 that will not fit in there, hi!  What other contest radio can do this?  

Elecraft K2/100.  Yes, you can build it with the separate receive antenna and 
with computer control of the radio.

Of course K3 has other advantages, like diversity receive which is routine at 
n2cei 160m station in FL.  Plus there is a second K3 for S & P of mults.  This 
requires the K3 lock-out feature so that only one K3 is transmitting.

And there is remote control.  This year in CQ 160m contest  I couldn't make the 
trip to FL so the n2cei group sent to me the other half of the remote gear and 
I operated my leg of n2cei M/M 160m anyway, from Idaho.

Cool.

73, Will, wj9b, ID
occasional multi- op at big-gun ny4a NC and 160m superstation n2cei FL

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Tue, 10/18/16, Bill Frantz  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Date: Tuesday, October 18, 2016, 7:04 AM
 
 Since June, my K3 went
 out for the California QSO Party (CQP), a 
 special event station from Ely NV, and field
 day. Field day and 
 CQP were solar powered
 battery. The Ely event ended up being 
 battery because the generator was putting out
 S9 noise. The 
 field day was QRP while CQP
 and Ely were at 100W. Being able to 
 drop
 back to battery saved our bacon in Ely. For all these 
 events, and in the shack, I am very glad to
 have a radio with 
 the ease of use of the
 K3, which IMHO, is better than my KX3.
 
 On 10/17/16 at 4:47 PM, ksto...@ac0h.net
 (Kevin) wrote:
 
 >How many
 people take their K3(s) out in the 
 >sticks...ever...save Field Day?
 ---
 Bill Frantz        | Can't fix stupid,
 but duct   | Periwinkle
 (408)356-8506      | tape can muffle the
 sound... | 16345 
 Englewood Ave
 www.pwpconsult.com |           
    - Bill Liebman | Los Gatos, 
 CA 95032
 
 __
 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net
 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Low Output on 15

[WILLIE BABER]

My 2014 purchased K3 is 20-25 watts low on 14mhz but all other bands are good.  
just haven't worried about it as I normally use 50 watts or less to drive 
an amplifier.  I'll look into it after ARRL DX CW in February, so long as it 
doesn't get worse.

73, Will, wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Sat, 11/12/16, K9MA  wrote:

 Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Low Output on 15
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Date: Saturday, November 12, 2016, 3:37 PM
 
 The output of my K3 (SN 4657) has
 suddenly dropped 10-15 W on 15 meters, 
 from about 100 W to 85-90.  The other bands haven't
 changed, nor has the 
 supply voltage (13.6 V at full power). Restoring to a
 previous 
 configuration does not help.  I had a similar problem
 early on, also on 
 15, and had to ship the K3 back to Elecraft, who replaced
 the 10 W 
 module, but not the KPA3.  15 seems to be a problematic
 band.  Has 
 anyone else seen a problem like this?
 
 73,
 
 Scott  K9MA
 
 -- 
 Scott  K9MA
 
 k...@sdellington.us
 
 __
 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net
 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

[Elecraft] second receive antenna port of K3

[WILLIE BABER]

Now that I am totally doing so2r K3, I have reasons to use the second antenna 
port available for k3/K3s.  I understand from the K3s manual that the second 
port works off the internal tuner module.  If I understand correctly, you can 
bypass the tuner and then select either of the two antenna ports, OR select the 
tuner for either antenna port.  Is this correct?

I have an old MP that I press into service just to have a radio with a second 
port for contest-specific but misc. antennas.  An MP, modified like mine, is 
good but of course it is not a K3.   Actually, dynamic range is acceptable, at 
least in rural Idaho, but TX phase noise is noticeable in so2r.

Due to my habit of using so2r K3 I may purchase the tuner just to get access to 
that second port--so long as I am not forced to use the tuner on either port.  
Wouldn't it be nice to have a module that allows access to the second port 
without purchasing the internal tuner?  

I need access to both ports without the tuner, i.e., the tuner is bypassed on 
either port.  I think this is want the manual is saying but I want to be 
certain.

73, Will, wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Front end protection

[WILLIE BABER]

I replaced that diode in my K3 with instructions from an Elecraft 
technican-person. I also at the point purchased bandpass filters so that I 
didn't have to worry about that happening again.  

In fact, all repairs and some mods to my first and early K3 were done by me 
with Elecraft assistance until I sent the radio back to get the new 
synthesizers and repair a problem that turned out to be a nick on a trace that 
disabled the sensor for the PA fanthat problem must have happened when I 
moved and the radio got some rough handling. I didn't even notice the problem 
until I started using more than 50 watts output.

The replacement of the diode isn't difficult even if you didn't build your K3. 
My K3 was factory built.  The tech-guys that tell you exactly what to do is a 
novel approach to service that has worked well for me. 

73, Will, wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Tue, 2/21/17, W0MU Mike Fatchett  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Front end protection
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Date: Tuesday, February 21, 2017, 5:34 PM
 
 Most everyone missed the
 point.
 
 Why in the K3 is
 there not an easy way to replace the damaged protection 
 diode or any radio for that matter.  This
 would seem like a common 
 failure point for
 many people using 2nd rigs, dxpeditions, etc.  Maybe 
 it is not practical in the actual sense? I
 don't want to drag more stuff 
 around. 
 If would seem to me that providing a field replaceable item
 on 
 the radio would not be that difficult. 
 Maybe it is?
 
 W0MU
 
 
 
 On 2/21/2017 8:21 AM, W0MU Mike Fatchett
 wrote:
 > Why is it that no manufacturer
 has created a field replaceable front 
 >
 end protection scheme?  Many of us are using multiple
 radios or in 
 > Multiop situations. 
 Stuff happens.
 >
 > In
 the case of the K3, D25 which we think has gone bad for
 whatever 
 > reason in my radio is a
 surface mount diode that cost essentially 
 > nothing but is not easily replaced. 
 Why?  Is there no way to provide 
 > an
 easier user replaceable part or a cost effective protection
 circuit 
 > board that would be field
 replaceable?
 >
 >
 >
 __
 > Elecraft mailing list
 >
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 >
 > This list hosted by:
 http://www.qsl.net
 >
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 > Message delivered to w...@w0mu.com
 
 __
 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net
 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Front end protection

[WILLIE BABER]

My only point John is that replacing that diode with instructions for Elecraft 
is not at all difficult to do.

73, Will, wj9b



CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Wed, 2/22/17, j...@kk9a.com  wrote:

 Subject: [Elecraft]  Front end protection
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Date: Wednesday, February 22, 2017, 5:20 AM
 
 I am surprised that you think it is
 not possible to accidentally set the
 bandpass filter to the wrong band or have an automatic
 switching relay
 fail, have a control wire pull out or just plain cockpit
 error after
 operating sleep deprived?  W0MU has a good point, if
 you're operating away
 from home like many of us do it could be a nice feature.
 
 John KK9A (WP2AA next week)
 
 WILLIE BABER said:
 Tue Feb 21 20:43:05 EST 2017
 
 I replaced that diode in my K3 with instructions from an
 Elecraft
 technican-person. I also at the point purchased bandpass
 filters so that I
 didn't have to worry about that happening again.
 
 
 73, Will, wj9b
 
 CWops #1085
 CWA Advisor levels II and III
 http://cwops.org/
 
 
 On Tue, 2/21/17, W0MU Mike Fatchett 
 wrote:
 
  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Front end protection
  To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net
  Date: Tuesday, February 21, 2017, 5:34 PM
 
  Most everyone missed the
  point.
 
 __
 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net
 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Vacuum Relays and 30 WPM QSK

[WILLIE BABER]

I have worn out vacuum relays in qsk amps too (replaced only one time in my 12 
year-old Alpha 99).  In fact, qsk with vacuum relays is not really qsk in that 
a vacuum relay is not as fast and silent as what I experienced using Alpha 89, 
which had switching diodes in it. Alpha 89 to me is the only qsk amp I have 
used (at ny4a).  You could, in fact, hear been characters at 30 wpm.  

I was disappointed when I purchased my first vacuum relay amp, Alpha 99.  Alpha 
99 was defined as qsk but it didn't switch like an Alpha 89.  Seems silly now 
but since Alpha 99 was defined as "qsk" I expected it to behavior like Alpha 
89.   

I even looked around for awhile for an Alpha 89, but then learn how easy it is 
to blow the diodes in Alpha 89--many owners replaced those expensive diodes, 
once blown, with vacuum relays.  So, I just decided to run "almost qsk" 
compared to Alpha 89.

73, Will, wj9b  

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Mon, 2/27/17, Jim Brown  wrote:

 Subject: [Elecraft] Vacuum Relays and 30 WPM QSK
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Date: Monday, February 27, 2017, 9:28 PM
 
 On Sun,2/26/2017 3:04 PM,
 Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
 > But even though
 the K3 is cycling TX/RX very fast the 8410 is not banging
 > the vacuum relay to death trying to follow
 30 wpm dits. 30 wpm QSK*does*
 >
 significantly shorten relay time to failure. Contesting,
 I've worn some out
 > in less than a
 year.
 
 I own three very nice
 vintage Ten Tec amps that use vacuum relays. All 
 of them came to me used, and I've replaced
 those relays in each amp at 
 least once.
 After a few rounds of that, I stopped running QSK with those
 
 amps. :) I'd like to hear from others
 having experience with vacuum 
 relays and
 QSK at contesting speeds. I mostly work between 28 and 32
 
 WPM. The original equipment relays were
 Jennings, and I've mostly used 
 Gigavac
 as replacements. I haven't had to replace one since
 giving up on 
 QSK about 8 years ago, but I
 really would like to run QSK. Have I made 
 the right decision to avoid it when running
 with a vacuum relay?
 
 73,
 Jim K9YC
 
 
 __
 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net
 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Compare the K3 and the Icom IC-7300

[WILLIE BABER]

What do you want to do with the radio?...for contesting K3/K3s is as good as it 
gets, so far.  And how was this done?  By improving an already good radio.  I 
think it is most cool to be able to bring k3 up to K3s performance for about 
$420 (synthesizer and preamp boards) and not buy a k3s.

K3s ranks second in the Sherwood table--which is based on dynamic range.  
However, in a "controlled comparison" between K3s and Flex 6700 (same with the 
Ic 7300), I suspect K3s would rank number one.  Set all radios to a given and 
the same MDS and then measure the dynamic range.

Not that dynamic range is the only criterion of a good radio nor the only 
reason to buy any radio...just saying that this is the criterion used in the 
Sherwood table of comparison.  And a good criterion if you intend to use the 
radio in a contest.

73, Will, wj9b 

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Tue, 2/28/17, Charlie T, K3ICH  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Compare the K3 and the Icom IC-7300
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2017, 6:31 AM
 
 One good reason is
 because a "pre-owned" IC-1300 can be found for
 about a
 half or a third of what a similar K3
 will cost.
 Charlie k3ICH
 
 Bill:
 Why don't you just
 get a bare bones used K3. Since it will be a backup rig
 why go and spend the extra $$ for a new rig. By
 having a second K3, you
 won't have to
 learn a new rig etc.
 *73 De Mike*
 *VE3YF
 
 
 
 __
 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net
 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] IC-7610 added to Sherwood's list

[WILLIE BABER]

How is it possible to compare the dynamic range of a direct conversion radio 
with a superhet, where a mode-specific filter can be placed at the first mixer, 
with the expectation that direct conversion would give similar dynamic range as 
a superhet?

I haven't heard yet a technical way to explain this, especially given how Wes 
Hayward defined how to measure receiver dynamic range many years ago.

73, Will, wj9b


CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Sun, 12/24/17, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] IC-7610 added to Sherwood's list
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Date: Sunday, December 24, 2017, 5:03 PM
 
 
 On 12/24/2017
 5:32 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
  > The real
 shocker is the BDR: only 119 to 122 dB. That’s 30 dB
 weaker
  > than the K3S and only 1 dB
 better than the IC-7300.
 
 My
 guess is that the "Front end selectivity" is not
 an "A tracking
 preselector" but
 rather a "B Band Pass" and that the bandpass is
 wider that that of the 7300 in order to support
 the "dual RX"
 capability of the
 7610.  It's either that or the design/hardware
 has some significant bugs.
 
 The other explanation would be simply that
 direct sampling SDR has a
 far wider
 measurement variability than traditional receiver
 topology.
 Note the 12 dB difference in
 IMDDR3 between Flex 6700 on 9/29/14 and
 the
 Flex 6700 measured on 3/17/17.
 
 73,
 
     ...
 Joe, W4TV
 
 
 On 12/24/2017 5:32 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
 > Rob’s IC-7610 RX performance
 measurements are now posted, at 
 >
 sherweng.com. The ‘7610 came in twelfth on his list.
 > The real shocker is the BDR: only 119 to
 122 dB. That’s 30 dB weaker 
 > than the
 K3S and only 1 dB better than the IC-7300. I guess no one is
 
 > using these rigs in high-signal
 conditions.
 > 
 >
 Bragging rights for the K3, KX3 and K3S owners.
 > 
 > 73,
 > Don W3FPR
 >
 __
 > Elecraft mailing list
 >
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 > 
 > This list hosted by:
 http://www.qsl.net
 >
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 > Message delivered to li...@subich.com
 __
 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Frustration with Elecraft

[WILLIE BABER]

Maybe there are two levels of frustrationregular frustration, especially if 
you have ONE radio that isn't working, and you know that you will be off the 
air until the radio is fixedand you will miss an operating event!  This is 
normal.

The second level of frustration is getting the radio fixed in a timely fashion. 
 Elecraft will allow us to fix our own radios if we have the skill to do it 
with technical assistance.  I have done this several times with my K3 x 2 
(so2r), with detailed instructions that almost anyone can follow, from an 
Elecraft technician.  This saves lots of time in getting the radio working 
properly again. 

However, when I could not repair the PA in my nearly purchased K3 via 
instructions from a technician, I sent in the PA module only.  The technician 
couldn't fix it in a timely fashion either so I was sent another PA that solved 
the problem.  However, this was a two or three week long experience until I 
finally got another PA. No problem for me because I had other radios, so I 
wasn't at all frustrated by the time factor.  Of course I had no doubt that 
Elecraft would fix the PA.

I experienced the same kind of support in completing Elecraft k2 100 that I 
purchased years ago but I didn't complete building until some years later.  
There were lots of mods to do as I purchased a field-test unit.  I got every 
one of the mods in place, including the much needed keying modification.  And, 
for the most part, I didn't have to bother Elecraft technicians to finish K2.  
Every issue I had with K2 was resolved by searching archived Elecraft emails!

I like Elecraft because we (or yours truly) can be part of the repair-solution 
compared to the black-box approach that forces you to "send it in" for repair, 
no matter what is the problem. And then wait.

Now, if you are new to ham radio and don't have much knowledge about radios, 
then this silver-lining to Elecraft service may not be as obvious.

73, Will, wj9b
K2, and K3/P3 x 2


CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Tue, 6/13/17, Gary Smith  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Frustration with Elecraft
 To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 11:25 AM
 
 Andy,
 
 Just to be another to chime in on the 
 bandwagon, This is the kind of response 
 that Elecraft has been doing since I first 
 bought my K3 kit in 98 I think it was.
 
 I now have a fully loaded K3s,
 a backup 
 K3, fully loaded P3 and a K-Pod.
 My 
 amplifier is an Alpha 77SX but I am 
 seriously considering going for the 
 upcoming Elecraft SS 1500W amp. The only 
 thing that could pry the 77SX out of my 
 fingers would be a full limit Elecraft 
 amp. I have come to equate Elecraft with 
 integrity and quality.
 
 You will enjoy your radios and you will 
 have fun discovering all the hidden 
 nuggets your radios have waiting for you 
 to uncover.
 
 73,
 
 Gary
 KA1J
 
 
 > Wayne,
 > 
 > Thanks for the quick response and
 action!
 > 
 > I look
 forward to having a great field day.
 >
 
 > 
 > 
 > -
 > NB8F - Andy
 > Elecraft K3S / KX2
 >
 User since June 2017
 > Ham since March
 2015
 > --
 > View this
 message in context:
 > http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Frustration-with-Elecraft-tp76316
 > 98p7631707.html Sent from the Elecraft
 mailing list archive at
 > Nabble.com.
 >
 __
 > Elecraft mailing list Home:
 > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 Help:
 > http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post:
 mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 > 
 > This list hosted by:
 http://www.qsl.net
 >
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 > Message delivered to g...@ka1j.com
 >
 
 
 
 
 __
 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net
 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] K3S Package Discounts

[WILLIE BABER]

I imagine that many persons wanting K3/K3s have one, and so sales may not be as 
robust as a result. The many improvements over time have created a mature 
radio--and all essential improvements can be made to an early K3 (same with the 
K2).  I appreciate Elecraft for this approach to building radios.  However, 
this does mean that many of us are using aging K3s that work just as well as 
the new K3s.  I have two K3 radios (so2r), one is about nine years older than 
the other one but they are both essentially the same.  

It does seem that the prices associated with adding more options to the basic 
radio is different from the original sales philosophy of Elecraft: a top 
performing radio at a price that is lower because you buy only what you need 
and you can save even more by assembling it yourself.

This still applies but not as well as it did with the original K3, first 
produced some years ago however!

I never thought of Elecraft as an inexpensive radio (it looked inexpensive if 
you purchased the basic kit and nothing else); rather, I could see the savings 
in purchasing only what I wanted but still had the performance and I/O for the 
future. 

Finally, maintaining the K3 is far less expensive (compared to other radios) 
because many of us can do minor repair ourselves, with instructions provided by 
Elecraft technicians.

73, Will, wj9b



CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Sat, 7/29/17, Bill W4ZV  wrote:

 Subject: [Elecraft] K3S Package Discounts
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Date: Saturday, July 29, 2017, 5:50 AM
 
 http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3.htm#K3SPkg
 
 I still question the wisdom of
 bundling the the preamp, USB, 630m
 capabilities, etc into the K3S.  This went
 against Elecraft's original
 philosophy
 of keeping base price low and choosing only the options we
 really
 wanted.  This resulted in inflating
 the base price which put it out of reach
 for
 many folks and further away from competing products
 (IC-7300, Kenwood
 590 and Flex 6300).  That
 must be hurting sales resulting in discounting.
 
 A viable option is to buy a
 recent used K3 and sell/purchase options to
 configure it as you want.  Basic K3 prices are
 in the $1500 making this a
 viable
 alternative IMHO.
 
 73, 
 Bill  W4ZV
 
 
 
 --
 View this
 message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Confused-about-K3-to-K3S-Migration-service-tp7626459p7632800.html
 Sent
 from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
 __
 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net
 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft K4 and Accessibility

[WILLIE BABER]

K4 should succeed in that it appears to build upon K3/P3/KRX3 (highly 
successful) with added color screen, direct-sampling SDR, and increased I/O.  
The same K3 "upgradeable approach" applies to K4.  If you are not into 
contesting then K4 SDR may be all you wish (especially if you already have a K3 
for contesting). You do have to pay for the upgradeable approach 
 even if you are not interested in upgrading. 

This is the advantage of Elecraft IMHO.  I purchased my first k3 in 2008, and 
it is as good in 2019 as my K3s.  An upgradeable radio also helps with radio 
repair cost, in addition to NOT purchasing a new model radio just to obtain 
improved performance. 

Before I ended up with K3/P3 so2r in 2015, I went through a new board to 
improve K3 audio, the replacement of the pins affecting the KPA3 module, and 
new synthesizers (plus a few minor mods). My K3 eventually  replaced ft1000mp, 
Omni VI, and (finally) Orion.

I'm satisfied using K3 so2r more so than at any point in the past.  Based on my 
past experience I suspect K4 has a bright future!

73, Will, wj9b
PS: This is not the same as saying that I do not like other radios.  I still 
have Orion and a broken Omni VI that I hope to repair.



CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and II,:
http://cwops.org


On Sun, 5/26/19, Rick Tavan  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft K4 and Accessibility
 To: hwhi...@maine.rr.com
 Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" , k...@yahoogroups.com, 
elecraft...@groups.io
 Date: Sunday, May 26, 2019, 12:55 PM
 
 Wow. Your preference seems to be
 in a minority, Harry, although I have to
 admit that my opinion is subjective and based
 mainly on what I've read on
 this
 reflector which may well be biased by folks like me who
 *like* the K3.
 I think Elecraft retained in
 the K4 many of the design points that made the
 K3 very successful and enduring, including its
 light weight and small size
 which are two
 major complaints on your list. So it may be a chocolate
 vs.
 vanilla situation - some people (like
 me) value those characteristics while
 other
 people (like you) dislike them. Of course, you're right
 that many
 prospective buyers are aging and
 some may come to dislike smaller knobs, I
 for one still find the knobs and buttons plenty
 big enough and I'm now 70
 years old. I
 once measured the K3 button size and spacing against my
 prior
 favorite rig, the FT-1000MP, and found
 them practically the same. I never
 had
 trouble operating the K3 and its menu structure was logical,
 rarely
 needed, and self-documenting. The new
 K4 screen is plenty large enough for
 me and
 comparable to many current, competitive radios'. It can
 also be
 blown up to as large as you like
 through the addition of an in expensive,
 external, HDMI monitor or a tablet. I've
 seen it and it was gorgeous.
 
 So you're certainly correct that some
 people like big, heavy radios with
 "substantial" knobs and they may not
 buy the K4. Others like radios they
 can lift
 without back strain, carry to vacation homes and field
 sites,
 operate remotely with minimal
 external hardware, and expect to survive
 through upgrades for a decade. Many of them,
 like me, have been K3 fans for
 12 years or
 so and will be delighted to buy the K4. The market will
 decide.
 I think the K4 will be highly
 successful and I'm rooting for it. We'll see.
 
 73,
 
 /Rick N6XI
 --
 
 Rick Tavan
 Truckee, CA
 
 
 On Fri, May 24, 2019 at 5:00
 PM 
 wrote:
 
 > Wayne and
 interested others,
 >
 >
 Way back when, I bought a loaded K3. I believe the S/N was
 around 4K? It
 > was back in the day when
 almost every DXpedition was using K3's so it was
 > obviously the radio to own. (Around 2009?)
 It was at the top of the
 > Sherwood
 ratings. Owner's bragged, incessantly, about its
 Sherwood rating.
 >
 >
 After a period of time I grew to really dislike that radio.
 The audio was
 > just plain awful and the
 man/machine interface was the worst I have ever
 > seen. I detest bar graphs. I suppose if
 you play at ham radio 8 hours a
 > day,
 seven days a week, the interface is "normal", even
 usable. For those
 > of us who might get
 on the air for an hour or two a week, the controls were
 > a mystery. Tap this button to do this,
 hold the same button for three
 > seconds
 to do that, the list goes on. NOTHING was intuitive. It did
 not
 > help that it was an incredibly
 ugly, too light and unsubstantial, radio.
 > It's looks may have been barely
 acceptable when first introduced but it
 >
 aged badly, rapidly. Over a ten year period it's price
 has become a real
 > problem.
 >
 > There were many, many
 questions on this reflector regarding the controls,
 > the same questions about the same
 controls, over and over and over again.
 >
 That should have been a very large hint that the controls
 should be
 > massively improved in any new
 radio.
 >
 > I sold my
 K3 and moved on to the big Japanese three, ANAN, and Flex,
 over
 > the years. All had 

Re: [Elecraft] K4: superhet vs. direct sampling

[WILLIE BABER]

In my experience the value of high-level blocking and low phase noise is in the 
ability to hear very weak signals next to  strong ones.  When I first got into 
So2r years ago, I discovered an entire layer of very weak signals when I 
switched to usingTenTec Omni V and Omni VI; this was related directly to lower 
phase noise in so2r where the other radio was not a TenTec.  Also, high level 
blocking allows you to hear those weak ones in S & P that you would otherwise 
roll right over especially when the band is full of strong signals. If you are 
not into cw contesting, and in so2r in particular, then what I just said 
doesn't matter and lots of radios become good radios. I have used nothing in 
so2r better than 2 x k3, with Omni VI, Orion and Tentec Eagle almost as good.  
After those, there is Kenwood ts590s.

The thing is, you cannot notice the signals that you are not hearing if you 
have two radios that perform equally poor, and especially with respect to phase 
noise.

73, will, wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Tue, 6/4/19, Wayne Burdick  wrote:

 Subject: [Elecraft] K4: superhet vs. direct sampling
 To: "Elecraft Reflector" 
 Date: Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 8:18 PM
 
 The superhet module buys a lot of
 BDR improvement. But also -- a subtlety I've failed to
 mention so far -- the superhet module is intended to
 somewhat improve 2 kHz IMDDR3 *and* make this figure more
 repeatable. 
 
 Q: Say
 what?
 
 A: As Rob Sherwood
 noted many times before finally immortalizing this point in
 his must-read footnotes, A-to-D converters sharing the same
 part number are not all created equal. The long-time
 previous occupant of his Top Spot benefitted from a
 never-corroborated monotonicity in its ADC's LSBs. An
 act of god. The product of a very good day at the silicon
 foundry when, serendipitously, all the bunny suits were
 defect-free, and no one was exhaling molecules of grain
 alcohol or other substances from the night before.
 
 That said, most ops can get by
 without the extra BDR and IMDDR3, because they're not
 situated in the RF equivalent of the Gulf Stream. Hence the
 different K4 models. 
 
 73,
 Wayne
 N6KR
 
 
 >
 On Jun 4, 2019, at 5:10 PM, Lyle Johnson 
 wrote:
 > 
 > Mark,
 > 
 > The "20 dB
 lower than a K3" figure is an estimate for 100 kHz
 Blocking Dynamic Range rather than the 2 kHz Narrow Spaced
 Dynamic Range.
 > 
 >
 The K3 is listed at 140 to 150 dB (depending on model,
 synthesizer, etc) on Sherwood's Receiver Test Data
 page.  The K4 series without the "HD" option are
 estimated to be in the 120 to 130 dB range, typical of other
 direct sampling SDR products (Flex, Apache, Icom, ...).
 > 
 > 73,
 > 
 > Lyle KK7P
 > 
 > On 6/4/19 4:00 PM,
 mark roz via Elecraft wrote:
 >> Before
 putting my money up front for the first run of K4D I need to
 know what is the dynamic range
 >> of
 the K4D RX at 2kHz spacing. K3 is 105 dB and K4D? If it is
 20dB lower than K3 than it would be 85dB-correct?
 
 
 
 __
 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net
 
 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft-K4] K4 CW and keying Rise Time

[WILLIE BABER]

I said that, to a person who reported that my radio was generating clicks. "I 
am using K3, I should be perfectly clean," was my reply.
My K2 was clicky.  I used it Qrp or LP until after I installed the Elecraft 
modification.
Moreover, after curing Omni 6 and ft1000mp of clicks by installing and testing 
proven modifications, I do know a little bit about detecting key clicks under 
my nose---compared to a very strong (but clean) signal.
73, Will, wj9b
CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/ 

On Monday, November 4, 2019, 6:22:43 PM EST, Wayne Burdick 
 wrote:  
 
 We went to great lengths to create an ideal sigmoidal (raised cosine) 
rise/fall characteristic for our CW keying envelope. It is set at approximately 
5 ms and will not be shortened for any reason. Elecraft rigs don't click.

We also ensure that ALC never interferes with the CW keying waveform. During 
rise and fall, ALC is open-loop, allowing the characteristic curve to be 
presented to the output stages.

The result of all this is the narrowest CW keying bandwidth possible consistent 
with crisp on-the-air sound.

73,
Wayne
N6KR



> On Nov 4, 2019, at 12:21 PM, Dan Atchison via Groups.Io 
>  wrote:
> 
> I am hoping that the K4, like its predecessor the K3(S), does NOT give a user 
> the ability to change its CW rise times.  
> 
> I believe the K3 is designed for a 5ms rise.  Many, if not most, other 
> manufacturers allow as little as 1ms resulting in CW signals that reach 
> beyond 1kHz of bandwidth by creating horrible key-clicks.  Indeed, their 
> "default" values can be too short.  To what end?  Unscrupulous users setting 
> it so their clicks help keep their run frequency clear?  Terrible to think 
> that but I have heard some station owners admitting same.
> 
> Last weekend's CWSS had many, many horrible key-click stations - some from 
> notable contesters.  I realize that things other than a CW rise time can give 
> cause to key-clicks (antenna connections, hot-switching, etc.), but newer 
> radios shouldn't be the culprit - yet they can be because of manufacturer's 
> oversight (or under-thought).  
> 
> I've never heard of a short CW rise time being an advantage other than to 
> create havoc. There is a happy medium.
> 
> Dan - N3ND
> 
> 
> _._,_._,_
> Groups.io Links:
> You receive all messages sent to this group.
> 
> View/Reply Online (#246) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute This Topic 
> | New Topic
> 
> Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [n...@elecraft.com]
> _._,_._,_

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net 
  
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

[Elecraft] k2/k3

[WILLIE BABER]

Hello All,

I have been reading the mail of this reflector for some time, and thought I 
would join today and include my two cents; after all I own so2r K3/P3/K-Pod.  
However, I do enjoy other radios, mainly an IC 7600 which isn't a K-3 in 
handling strong signals but it does just fine here is rural Idaho, and the qsk 
is just as good.  Shamelessly, I like the colorful screen.

On K3 audio:  After finishing the build on a K2/100 recently (a field model 
purchased in 1998 and never completed) I was surprised at the overall 
performance of K2 and decided that K3 can have too much gain.  I now have no 
gain on each filter, and 2db on the 200 hz one.  If K3 seems noisy then after 
adjusting agc and RX EQ (like most others I have the cw offset at 500hz), you 
may want to use 0 gain on the filters.  Maybe this point about I-F gain has 
been covered but if so I don't recall reading about it. Moreover, I don't 
normally use a preamp 160m through 20m, except on beverages.

K2 does not have objectionable phase noise as I read somewhere, that noise is 
the need to do the keying modification.  K2 is a real sleeper of a radio, and 
it taught me something about K3.  Of course you have to build it, but K2 is 
contest competent though with far fewer features than K3.  

BTW, I had no difficulty getting the parts to finish K2, including the keying 
modification, 18 years later.  

73, Will, wj9b


CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

[Elecraft] Running stations with k3

[WILLIE BABER]

Hello All,

I did M/M with a big station in the NW running Icom 7700.  Needless to say 
comparison between K3 (one was on site) versus Icom radios came into discussion 
during rest periods.  Yes, the Icom 7700 played quite well, giving what some 
called "full-body" cw and easy to pick-out-stations while running them.

I like all radios...well almost all of them.  Having said that, you can easily 
get "full-body" cw and better running of station if you simulate the front-end 
of the Icom radio using K3.  To do this, set the first I-F filter to ssb 
bandwidth (2.7khz) and then use the DSP to deliver 500 hz passband.  You will 
hear stations that are within the 2.7khz window but not quite on your frequency 
(similar to 7700) while running stations, and without having to fool so often 
with RIT.

Once you go to 400 hz  in the first  I-F of K3 you are in serious high dynamic 
range territory...better have a k-pod on RIT and forget about "full-body" cw, 
which requires a wider first I-F.  Of course when you need a narrow first I-F 
you can have several of them in K3.

My two cents.

73, Will, wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] OT: K2

[WILLIE BABER]

Hello Don,

You may never  know how many folks you have helped-out who are K2 owners.  As I 
mentioned in an earlier post, I didn't finish my K2/100 until very recently, 
serial number 0086.four years after I retired!  So, as you know, I had to 
do lots of mods. I think I got  them all. 

Your posts got me through several issues, including the keying wave-form mod, 
alignment of the crystal filter (I used the newer crystals based on your post 
about  this--a big difference in my case), the power output instability problem 
(which led me to the Elecraft mod on this).and some more stuff I don't 
recall now.  I don't think there was one issue that I searched on that didn't 
include a response from you.  All your advice was dead on, too. 

Anyone wanting to build K2 has a resource on this reflector in your advice. 
Thanks  for all your advice and easy to follow instructions.

I guess K2 is a legacy radio but it will out perform all those up-conversion 
radios, hands down.  Sweet sound too.  You may never need a K3!

73, Will, wj9b
Kx1, K2, so2r K3/P3


CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Tue, 9/20/16, Don Wilhelm  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: K2
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Date: Tuesday, September 20, 2016, 4:34 PM
 
 Eric,
 
 I do repairs, alignment and calibration and upgrades of the
 Elecraft 
 legacy gear (K2, K1, KX1 and XV series transverters), and I
 am as busy 
 as I want to be (sometimes more than I want to be).
 So there is still a lot of interest in that gear, but you
 are right, 
 most of the posts are about the K3, KX3 and KX2.
 Non-the-less, there are frequent posts about the legacy
 gear. Many of 
 the older posts about "how to do ..." are no longer seen,
 but those 
 questions do pop up occasionally.
 
 Many of the K2, K1 and KX1 posts come from folks who have
 purchased a 
 used transceiver.  In many cases, they did not get all
 the associated 
 pieces (counter probe for the K2, connecting cables for the
 KAT100, 
 power cables, etc.) so those new owners need assistance, and
 they do 
 often post to the reflector.
 
 73,
 Don W3FPR
 
 On 9/20/2016 2:35 PM, Eric J wrote:
 > I had recently stopped monitoring the reflector as I
 only have a K1 and
 > two K2's. Everything is K3 and subject lines rarely
 reflect that anymore
 > so it's hard to filter them. But I had a K2 problem and
 rejoined. Got a
 > response with solution within an hour! And discovered
 that I miss the OT
 > discussions from a unique bunch of experts. Most of the
 OTs are
 > interesting and more relevant to a non-KX/K3 owner. So
 I'm back to
 > monitoring only OTs. hi.
 >
 > The new products don't fill any need in my hamming that
 isn't satisfied
 > by the K2, but the ongoing development of the state of
 ham art at
 > Elecraft is extraordinary to see.
 >
 > Eric KE6US
 >
 > On 9/19/2016 8:05 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
 >> P.S. Us K2 owners are rather quiet these days. I
 suspect few are still
 >> monitoring the reflector. I miss the many questions
 about soldering,
 >> testing, setting up an antenna, etc. But time, and
 products, moves on..
 >>
 >
 __
 > Elecraft mailing list
 > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 >
 > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
 > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 > Message delivered to donw...@embarqmail.com
 >
 
 __
 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net
 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Running stations with k3

[WILLIE BABER]

It wasn't my term.  But I think "full-bodied" cw means a slightly wider I-F to 
establish background noise that some ops want to hear, particularly if  the 
receiver has exceptional gain distribution and in-band IMD, which the latest 
Icoms do have.  This gives articulation to cw signal outs of a quiet back 
ground of noise, and so long as you are not dealing with an exceptionally 
strong signal nearby, hard-wired fast agc can give relative strength to the 
competing signals.  Then, a good cw op can pick out stations actually easier 
than with a 400hz filter where RIT becomes more necessary.  Of course on the 
Icom radio there is no choice but to do this because 3khz  is the narrowest 
setting, though you could ask for more DSP filtering.   

So, here again, is what I mean:  set you K3 for 2.7khz and I-F DSP at 500hz and 
tune in a s-9 signal.  Now engage your narrow cw filter (I can do 400hz, 250hz, 
and 200hz).  Listen to the I-F back ground noise decrease relative to the 
signal.  Notice too that  2.7 hz with 500hz of DSP sounds more "full-bodied" 
than 400hz, 250hz, 200hz.   Of course, this is all good when you are trying to 
hear a weak signal anyway as opposed to running a pileup of stations.

My point is (or was in the discussion about this) if you like running stations 
with an Icom you can enjoy running them in the same way with K3. But what has 
to happen to the Icom radio when a signal like the one Guy describes gets 
within the 3 khz roofing filter?  

On the k3 you can engage a 200 hz filter and carry on the east coast -EU battle 
 If there is an advantage to contesting in Idaho it is that EU stations from 
over the pole are seldom over s-9 and don't blink, you will miss the EU 
opening, hi.  However,  I have seen east coast signals nearly peg the meter of 
k3 a few times in 300z cwt.  

73, Will, wj9b
KX1, k2, so2r K3/P3


CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Tue, 9/20/16, Ron D'Eau Claire  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Running stations with k3
 To: "'F5vjc'" , "'Guy Olinger K2AV'" 

 Cc: "'Elecraft Reflector Reflector'" 
 Date: Tuesday, September 20, 2016, 6:03 PM
 
 A very long time ago
 (1950's) we called 'em "California
 Kilowatts" knowing
 that their driver
 stages were running a kilowatt at least and then the big
 amp following... 
 
 On A.M. (not so much SSB then) 100% modulation
 was a starter. 150% produced
 a nice splatter
 that told everyone across the band that you were "on
 the
 air". The same with CW using very
 square wave keying that announced your
 presence over many kc/s with clicks that
 allowed everyone to read your call
 and know
 that "Big Al" (or whomever) was on his key. 
 
 They seemed rampant on 75 and
 20 meters. 
 
 So the
 geography has shifted, but not the crazy interests of some
 operators.
 
 
 BTW, if you are interested in a 15 kW H.F. amp
 check out the "Tsunami":
 
 http://ta5fa.blogspot.com/2013/03/15kw-hf-rf-amplifier-tube.html
 
 I'm sure that some
 operators would use it to drive a "big" final amp,
 Hi! We
 can hope they don't find a way.
 
 
 73, Ron AC7AC
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net]
 On Behalf Of F5vjc
 Sent: Tuesday, September
 20, 2016 3:01 PM
 To: Guy Olinger K2AV
 Cc: Elecraft Reflector Reflector
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Running stations with
 k3
 
 This is the degeneration
 of Amateur radio, yes really, it's true.  These
 signals from Eu are invariably the dirtiest
 worst you will ever hear on the
 bands,
 spewing crap all over the band.
 
 Below...
 
 
 "The "full body" (whatever that
 means) CW technique will NOT work in a DX
 test I've been in (Will knows where) with
 that 45 over S9 Italian station
 running 15
 kW and a 4 element beam on 40m pointed at the US when the
 band is
 wide open, and who has parked 400 Hz
 above or below me, AND I am trying to
 copy
 an S0 (if even that strong) basement noodle antenna QRP
 station."
 
 73 F5VJC
 
 
 __
 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net
 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Running stations with k3

[WILLIE BABER]

Well, I didn't mention who it was that made the comment about what we now can 
call the k3zo method.  However, the guy who sees an advantage in a 3 khz 
roofing filter can do just that!!

73, wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Wed, 9/21/16, Guy Olinger K2AV  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Running stations with k3
 To: "Bill W4ZV" 
 Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" 
 Date: Wednesday, September 21, 2016, 10:43 AM
 
 On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at
 6:59 AM, Bill W4ZV 
 wrote:
 
 > This is nothing
 new.  K3ZO has been doing this for about 30 years (at
 > least)
 > using wide
 filters and his ears as DSP.
 >
 
 Some people really CAN do
 this. For some years while he was living in NC, I
 had the pleasure of operating with W2CS at the
 NY4A multi/multi sessions.
 There were some
 number of neat things he could do, that I could not make
 happen in my brain, including the K3ZO method
 and typing 100% copy well
 behind the signal
 while carrying on an unrelated conversation.
 
 I think I figured out I
 can't copy CW and chew gum at the same time or
 something pretty close. So beware of
 presentation of methodology as general
 technique, that actually requires some
 not-so-common physical talents to
 pull off.
 I *do* know that K3ZO and W2CS *can* do that, and I also
 know
 that I *cannot*. And I also know that
 my chances of typing CW well behind
 the
 signal and carrying on a separate conversation in the room
 about how
 deep to plant radials at the same
 time are simply, factually, ZERO.  :>)
 
 I do know how to turn K3
 diversity into a sound stage and spread signals in
 a pile up around an audio "horizon".
 So I'm not totally devoid.  :>)
 
 73, Guy K2AV
 __
 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net
 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Technology Change (OT)

[WILLIE BABER]

I'd just like to know how an ADC works and produces some measurable form of 
dynamic range that I can associate with what I do know and learned about 
dynamic range.  I got started with Solid State Design for the Radio Amateur, 
published in 1977, where I learned about the concept of roofing filter but the 
concept didn't have a name. Wes and Doug were producing 100 db two tone dynamic 
range receivers in their homes, back in the day.  Then I got hold of Wes 
Hayward's book and learn more about how to test receivers.

I don't enjoy radio when someone seems to explain something that is so 
complicated mathematically that I don't understand in comparison to what I do 
know, or how I enjoy what I do know.  A true paradigm shift will be able to 
explain the new technology in terms of some mutually comparable variable that 
includes the old technology.

For example, I do not yet understand how Flex radio can top the chart of 
Sherwood's receiver table based on how two tone dynamic range is measured when 
I also know that Flex radio is a direct conversion radio without a way of 
separating the two tones of two tone dynamic range in the way that superhets 
do. Yes, I understand that signal separation is a delayed output based on 
signal sampling by the ADC but how does that process relate to two tone dynamic 
range?  Flex radio numbers in that chart do not make sense to me in comparison 
to the superhet receiver numbers that do make sense to me. 

Am I simply an  Elecraft nut when it seems by the numbers that K3 should be 
ranked first (based on MDS AND dynamic range), and that there needs to be some 
type of conversion based on two-tone dynamic range to know where the Flex-type 
ADC radios would rank?

Ok, so I am a nut.

73, Will wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Fri, 9/23/16, Mike Morrow  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Technology Change (OT)
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Date: Friday, September 23, 2016, 10:45 AM
 
 Morgan / NJ8M wrote:
 
 > I made a miss key ... 1625 not 1628.
 
 Yep...in fact there was never a 1628.  The 1625 is a
 12.6v 807, with different base.
 
 > ...then there was the magic EYE of the ARK 5 command
 transmitter.
 
 That's the 1629.  The equipment nomenclature is
 AN/ARC-5 (or ARA/ATA or SCR-274-N):
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/ARC-5
 The transmitters use a 1626 MO, two 1625 PA, and a 1629 cal
 indicator.
 
 There are many many of these sets, often in near original
 military configuration except for some capacitor
 replacement, in use *today* by those who appreciate vintage
 technology and history.  The users accept that it won't
 be K3S performance. :-)
 
 > ...it was great, A J38.
 
 The J-38 is a Morse training set key.  The J-37 was
 used with Morse communications sets.
 
 > I forgot my first real commercial receiver...the trusty
 BC454, with one touch
 > of the top of the case you wire 20 KHz off freq.
 
 The BC-454-B (3.0 to 6.0 MHz, A1/A2/A3) is not a commercial
 set, but a USAAF version from the command sets mentioned
 above...the SCR-274-N set.  If your BC-454-B drifted
 that much, something was very very wrong with it.  It
 was designed for use in all aircraft types under extreme
 mechanical vibration stress under gross temperature
 changes.  It was pilot-tuned via a long flexible
 shaft.  Its entire range was in seven inches of dial
 travel, so selectivity was deliberately very poor by
 post-war standards.
 
 > Then I upgraded to the BC348.
 
 The USAAC/AAF BC-348-* receiver (200 to 500, 1.5 to 18.0
 MHz) is basically a 1936 RCA design.  It was the finest
 aircraft radio receiver in the world during WWII.  A
 few remained in USAF service into early 1970s.
 
 I like the idea of a KX2 communicating effectively with a
 75-year-old BC-696-A (3.0-4.0 MHz) transmitter and
 associated BC-454-B receiver.  The latest sets like the
 KX2 and KX3 may be appreciated much more with knowledge of
 antecedent technology.  The same can be said of new and
 (likely) transient communications modes.
 
 To borrow from Ecclesiastes 1:4:  "One ham fad passeth
 away, and another ham fad cometh: but CW abideth for ever."
 
 Mike / KK5F
 [With one other old-time quirk that the modern crowd doesn't
 share:  I just can not purchase a commercial HF ham rig
 that lacks schematics.  That violates all my ham
 instincts.  :-) ]
 __
 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net
 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This l

Re: [Elecraft] N6TV recording K4 K3

[WILLIE BABER]

No disclosure required, Bob.  Credit where credit is due (to Elecraft); just 
based on the k3 alone, I believe you, hi.
The only reason I would not purchase k4 is because of k3/k3s.  One of mine is 
12 years old updated and performs just like k3s. I have three of them for so2r 
plus in band so2r (lp), requiring a third one.
Try within band so2r on any other pair of radios, lp.
What does this say about k4?  The only issue has been waiting for it, similar 
to kpa1500.  They are not going to release it until it is 99. percent there 
(of course the virus is in the mix too).
Elecraft deserves the credit until they do not deserve it...no sign of that 
since they got started.
73, will, wj9b
CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/ 

On Thursday, June 25, 2020, 4:53:16 PM MDT, Bob Wilson, N6TV 
 wrote:  
 
 Hi Doug,

I've been doing CW contests with the K3 for nearly 11 years now.  After
using an early release of the K4 firmware, which should only improve over
time, I'm convinced that the K4 far outperforms the K3 in CW pileup
scenarios, mainly due to much improved audio performance.  I predict other
Field Testers will come to the same conclusion, but I'll let them speak for
themselves.

Wayne can explain technically why this is the case (the K4 DAC hardware and
CPU is 11 years newer and faster of course), but all I can ask is to listen
closely to the first recording I posted
.
Please ignore the RFI artifacts during transmissions, and just listen to
the callers, preferably with headphones and a good PC sound card, not a
phone or tablet.  Try to pick out a callsign from the pile.  Then rewind
and try to pick out the *other* callsign.  I think you'll be able to get a
partial or full callsign almost every time, assuming normal hearing and
"contester ears," even though the stations are quite close to each other.
In a K3, under similar conditions, I would often hear annoying "beat notes"
or "buzzes" (audio distortion) with as few as two callers in the passband.
I have yet to hear that in the K4, though of course I've only used it for 6
hours of contesting.

But I've heard enough to place an order for a 2nd K4, mainly so that I can
do SO2R with two identical radios.

Disclosure:  I am not paid or employed by Elecraft, I have never worked
there, and I receive no compensation from the company beyond a small
discount on the price paid for an early Field Test Unit, and the chance to
play and provide direct feedback to the company before the general
release.  Fun stuff (and more work than you might think).

73,
Bob, N6TV

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 2:43 PM Douglas Zwiebel  wrote:

> Thanks to TV for doing these.
>
> I really think that while well intentioned, these recordings are "not much"
> in terms of comparing the two radios (or even just the K4 alone), unless
> you're an operator who is concerned about exactly the conditions
> (parameters) which are being used for the recordings.
>
> It's great to hear that "a neighbor" with a 65db over 9 signal can be
> "handled" with ease.
>
> I don't think many of us experience that scenario.
>
> RM just asked for a "pile-up" simulation.  OK, that's good, but how well
> will the recording be an honest representation of what a human with
> headphones connected to the radio be?  I mean, you can't see what 4K Ulta
> HD TV looks like by watching an example on an "older" TV.
>
> I am more concerned about how the radio works under "contest" conditions;
> that is, with many big signals on the band (not just one at 65db over 9)
> while trying to pull out 4th tier signals in a pileup.  For me, that's the
> test that matters.
>
> I don't know how many guys on here are serious DXer or are serious
> contesters.  For me, if the k4 can "pass the test" for the latter group,
> then the receiver should be fine for everybody else.  Maybe FD will give us
> an idea (if recorded as forecast).  But still, we are all listening through
> a myriad of different devices to hear / observe what we hope to discern
> about the K4 receiver.
>
> Finally, while it is encouraging that Elecraft can provide some "hints"
> about how to tweak the K4 to get to what TV is looking for, it is a
> reminder that this is still a work in progress.
>
> Patience is a virtue.
>
> de Doug KR2Q
> I have two K3 radios, original owner, both 3 digit SN, both "kit" form.
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to n...@arrl.net
>
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.

Re: [Elecraft] KX2 Drift During Field Day

[WILLIE BABER]

 1 hz? My hallicrafters crystal controlled oscillator was rated less than 400 
hz an hour drift after warm- up (it will do much better than that after 1 hour 
of warmup), That was considered very stable in 1962. I still use it in short 
qsos where I barely hear 10 hz of drift in 5 minutes, after an one hour warmup. 

How soon we forget!

73, will, wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/

 On Monday, June 29, 2020, 06:21:33 PM MDT, Jay Rutherford  
wrote:  
 
 ONE Hertz??

73
Jay K3BH

On Mon, Jun 29, 2020, at 18:35, Ian Kahn, NV4C wrote:
> All,
> 
> I have KX2 s/n 2862. I noticed while operating Field Day that, about 
> every 15 minutes, it would drift down 1 Hz. Has anyone else ever seen 
> this in their KX2? I will admit it is possible this was just the effect 
> of RF getting back into the rig, but at 10W, I'm not really sure where 
> enough would come from to cause an issue.
> 
> Thanks and 73,
> 
> Ian, NV4C
> 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net 
  
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

[WILLIE BABER]

There is a way to improve the signal to noise of the CW signal.  It is called 
the yagi or beam antenna.
The tower, guy system, beam, feedline, connectors, and switching, all have 
considerable appeal for some of us, the same as a good paddle, or a K3 radio.
My four towers and yagis were built by me--solo on the tower--and I do relate 
to my antenna system in the same way I do to my German-crafted cw paddle (even 
though I did not build it).
The details about how to do anything is subject to standards about how, 
exactly, to do it (and without harming yourself or others).
Of course you could decide that an egg is an egg no matter what you do to it (I 
have seen some tower systems that I would not climb). 
I had several tower Elmers starting with Dave Bunte, k9fn, who put up my first 
tower, a BX tower, at the tall height of 32 feet. I was fearful of that 32 foot 
tower.  Now I routinely go above 100 feet with two towers at 130 feet.  I turn 
70 years old in September.
If I had more than 4 acres I would have gone to 160 feet, for the sake of 80 
meters.
We all have our limitations (4 acres in my case but a ponderosa compared to 
many others) as well as our different ways of making art but, like a good 
omelet, the love of art is what makes life so pleasant, and far less dangerous.
73, Will, wj9b





CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/ 

On Sunday, July 12, 2020, 7:07:32 PM PDT, Wayne Burdick  
wrote:  
 
 
> On Jul 12, 2020, at 6:57 PM, David Gilbert  wrote:
> 
> Think of it this way ... CW works fine as both a contest mode, DXing mode, 
> and conversational mode.  Underlaying CW with a well configured digital 
> signal processing scheme like that which is under FT8, except with a 
> different user interface than either WSJT-X or JS8,  could be equally 
> versatile but with maybe 6-8 db better S/N ... possibly by an even greater 
> margin if the decoding allowed errors instead of being all or nothing.


Except that (a) you don't have to know CW, and (b) you don't need a key. There 
goes 73% of its charm :)

Wayne
N6KR



__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net 
  
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] K4 in production

[WILLIE BABER]

nonetheless, I think we are all hoping for the best with covid (and doing 
what we can to be safe) and vis-a-vis Elecraft.
If anyone thinks that Elecraft is trying to do anything other than their love 
of art, and make a living doing it, then whomever thinks that hasn't been 
paying attention since before the Elecraft K2.
73  will, wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/ 

On Thursday, July 16, 2020, 11:56:33 AM MDT, Tox  
wrote:  
 
 Given lead times, if the Dec/Jan ship date was not BS, then parts would
already have already been in transit before primary covid impacts were in
place. OK, that was missed.

I understand these are not normal times. And I live in Santa Clara County,
understand current density and watch county #s (and Health Orders being
ignored by the public).

That they aren't shipping on time now seems most immediately attributable
to covid, agreed. That this is the case is seems a result of either failure
to deliver or failure to honestly communicate last year.

We're now reaching the window of the most recent round of delivery
promises, yet I don't know anyone, including those who fronted cash a year
ago on a Nov date, who has even gotten final pricing yet.

Hence my frustration. I not only am impatient about getting the Shiny
(surprise), I feel deceived about how it has been handled by someone
sitting on thousands of dollars of my cash.

Scott

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 10:47 AM Fred Jensen  wrote:

> Say again?  The virus began in Asia [Wuhan China to be exact] at the
> very end of 2019.  Many of the parts that Elecraft and every other
> manufacturer uses are sourced out of Asia.  Everyones' supply chains are
> disrupted now but slowly improving.
>
> Elecraft is based in California.  The population density in California
> is high ... high enough that if everyone stood 1 meter from everyone
> else, some would be standing in Nevada and some in the Pacific Ocean.
> [:=)  From the news that leaks over the Sierra Nevada to Sparks,
> Elecraft is really working to both resume normal production AND protect
> their employees and families so they can continue normal production.
>
> 73,
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
>
> On 7/16/2020 10:20 AM, Tox wrote:
> > The parts availability issue was supposed to have been resolved
> pre-covid.
> > Wondering what the facts are.
> > (not griefing you, just frustrated by Nov,Dec/Jan,Mar/Apr,Jul/Aug
> >  string-along)
> >
> > Scott
> >
>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to scott.sm...@gmail.com



-- 
Scott Small
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net 
  
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] K4 in production

[WILLIE BABER]

If I had the money to put up in advance I would "front" the money to Elecraft, 
based on the K3. And I did purchased kpa1500 in advance.
I purchased Orion before it was produced based on most of the previous Tentec 
radio too.
But I confess that while I do turn 70 years old in September, I am in excellent 
shape, still climbing towers.  
Time can be an important factor, but who doesn't know that?
73, will, wj9b






CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/ 

On Thursday, July 16, 2020, 12:35:53 PM MDT, rich hurd WC3T  
wrote:  
 
 From where I sit on the Right Coast, I'd be reluctant to front ANYONE that
amount of cash, reputation notwithstanding.  Heck, George Z at Packtenna
couldn't until recently even get the antenna wire from Wireman.  Stuff
happens.  Supply chains bend and break.

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 2:05 PM Carl Yaffey  wrote:

> >
> > Hence my frustration. I not only am impatient about getting the Shiny
> > (surprise), I feel deceived about how it has been handled by someone
> > sitting on thousands of dollars of my cash.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> What? We’re not getting interest?
> 73 K8NU
>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to r...@wc3t.us



-- 
72,
Rich Hurd / WC3T / DMR: 3142737
Northampton County RACES, EPA-ARRL Public Information Officer for Scouting
Latitude: 40.761621 Longitude: -75.288988  (40°45.68' N 75°17.33' W) Grid:
*FN20is*
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net   
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft K4 question

[WILLIE BABER]

Can you say or know about when k4 will be available from " in stock" units?
73, Will, wj9b
CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/ 

On Wednesday, January 27, 2021, 10:57:36 AM PST, Wayne Burdick 
 wrote:  
 
 
> On Jan 27, 2021, at 10:04 AM, Wayne Suite  wrote:
> 
> Does the K4 cover the 2200m and 630m ham bands, like the flex radios do?

The K4 receives on these bands. Transmit output can be taken from the XVTR OUT 
jack, and is about +10 dBm.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net 
  
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[WILLIE BABER]

I used a kx1, operating FD with emergency power (batteries internal to kx1).  I 
used two sets of batteries.
The maximum output was 1.5 watts but after 2.5 hours of operating power output 
dropped to .5 watts.  So, I used another set of fresh batteries to operate a 
total of 5.5 hours. I made 70 contacts on 20m and 59 on 40m.  Of course I have 
large antennas.
However, I was surprised by how well the receiver did using my home-station 
antennas (yagis)! Dynamic range was not an issue but there was some I-F 
"blowby," on very strong signals but many dB down from other signals.
...amazing performance for such a simple radio.
73. Will, wj9b




CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/ 

On Monday, June 26, 2023 at 08:59:45 AM MDT, Wayne Burdick 
 wrote:  
 
 Thanks for your comments, Eric. 

Note that the K4 shares the same pedigree, and weighs only 2 pounds more, for 
the same reasons.

73,
Wayne
N6KR
2A SCV


> On Jun 26, 2023, at 7:56 AM, Eric Fitzgerald  wrote:
> 
> Every time I take my K3 out into the field - be it Field Day, POTA, SOTA or 
> grid activations - I marvel at how well designed this transceiver is for 
> portable operation.  From the informative display, to the practical power/ALC 
> settings for soundcard digital operation, to the miserly power consumption; 
> this radio shines over all the other rigs I have operated portable.  It is a 
> pleasure to operate out of the shack.
> 
> Thank you Elecraft for devising a machine to match the portable operator's 
> needs.
> 
> Bravo!
> 
> Eric
> 
> KG6MZS 2E LAX



__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to wlba...@bellsouth.net 
  
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Disappointing Performance

[WILLIE BABER]

I have the KH -1.  
I have always had an interest in: how small one can make a radio relative to 
good performance?
Before the KH-1 I considered the KX-1 that I own as an ideal, small, competent, 
self-contained 2-band radio, with tuner. I have built others, as kits, or one 
band units on my own---just for fun.
I have so far worked the following stations while seated on my couch using 
KH-1. All of them relatively strong of course.
Wb0rlj,  NEAi0y,  MNK7RI, UTWC7C, WA
Like the KX-1, this little radio hears well.  I was surprised to hear EU 
stations coming through, very weak but q5 on 20m, one evening while walking up 
and down my drive way.  
Is it possible to build a smaller radio, plus fit a battery and tuner inside of 
it?  
I don't see how!
73, Will, wj9bMiddleton, ID












CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/ 

On Thursday, September 26, 2024 at 06:32:53 PM MDT, MIKE ZANE via Elecraft 
 wrote:  
 
 QRP is a fun way to do ham radio. 1992 WPX contest from Aruba as P40Z was 
amazing, I couldn't work all those that called me as wife shut me down to go on 
some or another excursion.  Mike n6zw
> On 09/26/2024 2:10 PM PDT Bill Johnson  wrote:
> 
>  
> Dan, nice to know someone else is active like me at 79.  I have also used 174 
> and 316 with no ill effect for shorter lengths and low power.  Working QRP is 
> a learning experience and is enjoyable.  The rewards are great!
> 
> 
> Bill
> K9YEQ
> 
> From: Dan Presley 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2024 10:54:09 PM
> To: Bill Johnson 
> Cc: Mike Fatchett W0MU ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
> 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Disappointing Performance
> 
> Also don’t sweat using RG 316 or 174 for reasonably short runs. I use 316 
> from the KX2 to the tripod mounting the AX1 and 174 for my linked 40/20/15 
> dipole. The loss is negligible at short distances at HF. And at 5W in the 
> field there’s no need for any baluns or chokes unless you’re using a high 
> impedance end fed. If all goes well next week I’ll be taking the KH1 and the 
> MC-750 for a SOTA activation on Mary’s Peak in the Oregon coast range. 4100 
> feet and a nice little hike. I’m just glad I can still pull this off at age 
> 73…
> Dan Presley 503-701-3871
> @me. com
> n7...@arrl.net
> 
> 
> > laOn Sep 25, 2024, at 21:53, Bill Johnson  wrote:
> >
> > Use your analyzer to lengthen/shorten the radial and calculate the 
> > appropriate counterpoise.  Know that the AX1 antenna design was for direct 
> > connection.  The operator adds capacitance that would lower effective 
> > frequency.  The tuner will let you load anything.  Shut off tuner and work 
> > for lowest reflective power.
> >
> > Bill
> > K9YEQ
> > 
> > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  
> > on behalf of Mike Fatchett W0MU 
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2024 7:19:18 PM
> > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Disappointing Performance
> >
> > You have a small compromised sized antenna and QRP.  Maybe your
> > expectations are a bit off.  Many people seem to do quite well with
> > mobile setups using hustler/hamsticks.  If you are going camping how
> > about a dipole or similar?  Toss a dipole in a tree for 20m is easy.
> > You are wasting your time on 40m in Idaho and probably 30m.
> >
> > W0MU
> >
> >> On 9/25/2024 4:57 PM, Dave (NK7Z) wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> If possible raise the antenna higher.  Add more radials...
> >>
> >> A friend of mine has one of these and we took it out at a portable
> >> station using a KX radio.  It was 6 feet above the ground, and had 6
> >> radials on it, each around 20 or 30 feet long, sloped heading to the
> >> ground.  We used WSPR on it during the big eclipse a few years back,
> >> and it worked really well, hits all over the world on 20... Radials
> >> are the key to making it work better. Being a shortened antenna it
> >> will never work as well as say a 6BTV, but it will work well with a
> >> decent set of radials.
> >>
> >> 73, and thanks,
> >> Dave (NK7Z)
> >> https://www.nk7z.net
> >> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> >> ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
> >> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
> >>
> >> My favorite definition of an intellectual: 'Someone who has been
> >> educated beyond his/her intelligence'.  Arthur C Clarke
> >>
> >>> On 9/25/24 15:17, James Bennett via Elecraft wrote:
> >>> Several months ago I started building up a POTA station, including a
> >>> KX3 (with internal tuner), the AX1 Dual Band Antenna, the AXE1 40
> >>> Meter Extender, and the AXT1 Tripod Adapter. This afternoon I finally
> >>> got the time to see how this antenna plays. I was a bit disappointed.
> >>> Here is the setup:
> >>>
> >>> KX3 (with internal tuner), 25 feet of RG-316 with ferrites on the
> >>> radio end, five foot tall carbon fiber tripod sitting in the middle
> >>> of my back yard; no other resonant antennas on the property.
> >>>
> >>> The KX3 / ATU WAS able