Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Other languages? (Was Re: Congratulations Luna developers!)
To get this conversation back on topic, I'm experimenting with developing Gtk apps in Go (http://golang.org). Once I have that "mastered", it shouldn't be too hard to make Granite apps given that Granite compiles to C. And Go is probably only a little slower than Vala but a lot more user friendly (the barrier to entry is a LOT lower, simpler design, better tooling, bigger community, etc). If you're interested in experimenting with me, let me know. On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Jakob Eriksson wrote: > On 2013-08-21 22:35, Kurt Smolderen wrote: > > > look at the code. As Vala is currently missing a decent IDE (such as > > Eclipse,...) and debugging isn't as easy due to the fact the code is > > translated into C, its often very difficult to analyse the flow of a > > program. Available tests might help this initial contributors with > > > And when will it be "blessed" to create Elementary apps in another > language than Vala? If Elementary would "open up" to other languages, > we could REALLY see increased productivity and more contributors. > IMHO Objective C, C++ and maybe even Java via GCJ would be the obvious > candidates. > > --jakob > > > -- > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Other languages? (Was Re: Congratulations Luna developers!)
Vala can target Windows and OSX last I checked. Also, Elementary can run apps written in non-Vala languages. Of course, it's not supported because Elementary's development resources are spread so thin and many developers here don't have expansive experience in other languages. On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Jakob Eriksson wrote: > On 2013-08-21 22:59, A. "Xylon" V. wrote: > > The thing about vala is that its simple enough to learn, but is still > very > > powerful and is extremely fast. The best thing is that it was made for > Gtk, > > which is perfect for elementary. > > > > More languages would mean that we wouldn't have unity across the > > applications - I do however, think that this would attract developers, > > especially since vala does not have very good tutorials, or books. > > That is an understatement. Not having support for other languages is > sort of insane. > > Scenario: > > I am a developer. I develop an application for Windows and, against > commercial reason, make a Linux version of it too. It's coded in a mix > of C++ and Python. > > I think Elementary is just fantastic, so just out of love I want to make > my Linux app an Elementary version. I read the HIG and love it. > > Then I go to http://elementaryos.org/docs/code on the FIRST page I read: > > "If you're not familiar with Vala, we highly encourage you to brush up > on it before coming here." > > Sorry say what? No, not going to happen. I can't redo my app in Vala, > even if I wanted to, because that means I can't run it on Windows. (Or > OSX, or iOS.) > > > The dev page should read something like "for Elementary core apps we use > Vala as a programming language. If you want to create your own > Elementary apps, we encourage you to try out Vala, which is a fantastic > language. If you want to use another language, that's fine too. Here are > example Hello World Elementary apps written in C++, Objective C, Python > and Ruby." > > > --jakob > > -- > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Other languages? (Was Re: Congratulations Luna developers!)
> it partially depends on Granite, so if you want to use a language other than C or Vala, you might need to mess with bindings Because D is ABI compatible with C, you do not need to make bindings for it, no? Also, I have seen a Python specific version of Granite, so Jakob, your C++ and Python app should have been able to follow elementary HIGs and use Granite. On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 3:03 PM, Julien wrote: The HIG is independent of the language you use, but it partially depends on Granite, so if you want to use a language other than C or Vala, you might need to mess with bindings. Official elementary apps will only use Vala (and some legacy C) because it makes it much easier for us, but that doesn't mean you can't use a different language for your 3rd party app. And the guide on the website is targeted at people who want to contribute to elementary (i.e. official apps) so of course you need to know Vala. Also, could it be we got slightly off topic? On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 11:57 PM, A. Xylon V. wrote: At least we're doing better than Android in terms of our language tolerance... XD On a serious note, last time I read the HIG, it was mostly a set of UX guidelines though, which could be applied to any language. Unless, of course, the HIG has gained vala specific stuff... On Aug 21, 2013 10:51 PM, "Albert Palacios Jimenez" wrote: Hi Jakob, This is a project worked by volunteers, who are developing other things that are more needed right now. Such as a site showing how to fix bugs and collaborate with them, or a tutorial on how to develop Vala applications for elementary OS. If you want to contribute, you are welcome to make a proposal of a tutorial about Vala bindings to other languages, and how to easily port applications using Vala bindings. I am sure the elementary OS team (and the GTK community) will be very happy. Elementary OS is just making a realistic decision choosing one language and defining the HIG. This is how great projects grow, and how they stand to their principles. We would love if you understand that some decisions are just for the good of the project and its users. On Aug 21, 2013, at 11:47 PM, Jaap Broekhuizen wrote: So you want us to document how to build a "elementary style" app in any possible language? Thanks but no thanks. IMHO we should provide generic goals and guidelines as to how an application should work and what it should look like, and preferably describe a set of tools with which you could achieve that. Vala is just the tool elementary agreed upon to use for core apps, and it makes sense to use that knowledge to also create third party apps. If you prefer to use different tools for third party apps, that's entirely OK. But it makes no sense to try to document any possible tool with which you could make an elementary style app. -- Jaap On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 11:39 PM, Jakob Eriksson wrote: Then there is an education / PR problem on the elementary.org page. It should be made clear how to make a HIG compliant app in any (where any=C++, hehe) language. On 2013-08-21 23:32, Albert Palacios Jimenez wrote: > > I think there are some misunderstandings: > > - The HIG is a must for core elementary OS applications but a recommendation for third party ones. > > - If you develop your application using a Model/View/Controller schema, it will be easy to make it look like an elementary OS just changing the View and leaving the original sources for Models and Controllers. > > This is why a lot of applications work across different systems, they get the "view/look" from the core libraries and work with a non "core" language. > > This is an appropriate way of developing applications, it works well not only for Linux but also for OSX, Windows, iOS, Android, ... > -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Other languages? (Was Re: Congratulations Luna developers!)
The HIG is independent of the language you use, but it partially depends on Granite, so if you want to use a language other than C or Vala, you might need to mess with bindings. Official elementary apps will only use Vala (and some legacy C) because it makes it much easier for us, but that doesn't mean you can't use a different language for your 3rd party app. And the guide on the website is targeted at people who want to contribute to elementary (i.e. official apps) so of course you need to know Vala. Also, could it be we got slightly off topic? On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 11:57 PM, A. Xylon V. wrote: At least we're doing better than Android in terms of our language tolerance... XD On a serious note, last time I read the HIG, it was mostly a set of UX guidelines though, which could be applied to any language. Unless, of course, the HIG has gained vala specific stuff... On Aug 21, 2013 10:51 PM, "Albert Palacios Jimenez" wrote: Hi Jakob, This is a project worked by volunteers, who are developing other things that are more needed right now. Such as a site showing how to fix bugs and collaborate with them, or a tutorial on how to develop Vala applications for elementary OS. If you want to contribute, you are welcome to make a proposal of a tutorial about Vala bindings to other languages, and how to easily port applications using Vala bindings. I am sure the elementary OS team (and the GTK community) will be very happy. Elementary OS is just making a realistic decision choosing one language and defining the HIG. This is how great projects grow, and how they stand to their principles. We would love if you understand that some decisions are just for the good of the project and its users. On Aug 21, 2013, at 11:47 PM, Jaap Broekhuizen wrote: So you want us to document how to build a "elementary style" app in any possible language? Thanks but no thanks. IMHO we should provide generic goals and guidelines as to how an application should work and what it should look like, and preferably describe a set of tools with which you could achieve that. Vala is just the tool elementary agreed upon to use for core apps, and it makes sense to use that knowledge to also create third party apps. If you prefer to use different tools for third party apps, that's entirely OK. But it makes no sense to try to document any possible tool with which you could make an elementary style app. -- Jaap On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 11:39 PM, Jakob Eriksson wrote: Then there is an education / PR problem on the elementary.org page. It should be made clear how to make a HIG compliant app in any (where any=C++, hehe) language. On 2013-08-21 23:32, Albert Palacios Jimenez wrote: > > I think there are some misunderstandings: > > - The HIG is a must for core elementary OS applications but a recommendation for third party ones. > > - If you develop your application using a Model/View/Controller schema, it will be easy to make it look like an elementary OS just changing the View and leaving the original sources for Models and Controllers. > > This is why a lot of applications work across different systems, they get the "view/look" from the core libraries and work with a non "core" language. > > This is an appropriate way of developing applications, it works well not only for Linux but also for OSX, Windows, iOS, Android, ... > -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Other languages? (Was Re: Congratulations Luna developers!)
At least we're doing better than Android in terms of our language tolerance... XD On a serious note, last time I read the HIG, it was mostly a set of UX guidelines though, which could be applied to any language. Unless, of course, the HIG has gained vala specific stuff... On Aug 21, 2013 10:51 PM, "Albert Palacios Jimenez" wrote: > Hi Jakob, > > This is a project worked by volunteers, who are developing other things > that are more needed right now. Such as a site showing how to fix bugs and > collaborate with them, or a tutorial on how to develop Vala applications > for elementary OS. > > If you want to contribute, you are welcome to make a proposal of a > tutorial about Vala bindings to other languages, and how to easily port > applications using Vala bindings. I am sure the elementary OS team (and the > GTK community) will be very happy. > > Elementary OS is just making a realistic decision choosing one language > and defining the HIG. This is how great projects grow, and how they stand > to their principles. > > We would love if you understand that some decisions are just for the good > of the project and its users. > > > > > On Aug 21, 2013, at 11:47 PM, Jaap Broekhuizen wrote: > > So you want us to document how to build a "elementary style" app in any > possible language? Thanks but no thanks. IMHO we should provide generic > goals and guidelines as to how an application should work and what it > should look like, and preferably describe a set of tools with which you > could achieve that. Vala is just the tool elementary agreed upon to use for > core apps, and it makes sense to use that knowledge to also create third > party apps. If you prefer to use different tools for third party apps, > that's entirely OK. But it makes no sense to try to document any possible > tool with which you could make an elementary style app. > > -- > Jaap > > > On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 11:39 PM, Jakob Eriksson > wrote: > >> Then there is an education / PR problem on the elementary.org page. >> >> It should be made clear how to make a HIG compliant app in any (where >> any=C++, hehe) language. >> >> >> >> On 2013-08-21 23:32, Albert Palacios Jimenez wrote: >> > >> > I think there are some misunderstandings: >> > >> > - The HIG is a must for core elementary OS applications but a >> recommendation for third party ones. >> > >> > - If you develop your application using a Model/View/Controller schema, >> it will be easy to make it look like an elementary OS just changing the >> View and leaving the original sources for Models and Controllers. >> > >> > This is why a lot of applications work across different systems, they >> get the "view/look" from the core libraries and work with a non "core" >> language. >> > >> > This is an appropriate way of developing applications, it works well >> not only for Linux but also for OSX, Windows, iOS, Android, ... >> > >> >> >> -- >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community >> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >> > > -- > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > > -- > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Other languages? (Was Re: Congratulations Luna developers!)
Hi Jakob, This is a project worked by volunteers, who are developing other things that are more needed right now. Such as a site showing how to fix bugs and collaborate with them, or a tutorial on how to develop Vala applications for elementary OS. If you want to contribute, you are welcome to make a proposal of a tutorial about Vala bindings to other languages, and how to easily port applications using Vala bindings. I am sure the elementary OS team (and the GTK community) will be very happy. Elementary OS is just making a realistic decision choosing one language and defining the HIG. This is how great projects grow, and how they stand to their principles. We would love if you understand that some decisions are just for the good of the project and its users. On Aug 21, 2013, at 11:47 PM, Jaap Broekhuizen wrote: > So you want us to document how to build a "elementary style" app in any > possible language? Thanks but no thanks. IMHO we should provide generic goals > and guidelines as to how an application should work and what it should look > like, and preferably describe a set of tools with which you could achieve > that. Vala is just the tool elementary agreed upon to use for core apps, and > it makes sense to use that knowledge to also create third party apps. If you > prefer to use different tools for third party apps, that's entirely OK. But > it makes no sense to try to document any possible tool with which you could > make an elementary style app. > > -- > Jaap > > > On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 11:39 PM, Jakob Eriksson > wrote: > Then there is an education / PR problem on the elementary.org page. > > It should be made clear how to make a HIG compliant app in any (where > any=C++, hehe) language. > > > > On 2013-08-21 23:32, Albert Palacios Jimenez wrote: > > > > I think there are some misunderstandings: > > > > - The HIG is a must for core elementary OS applications but a > > recommendation for third party ones. > > > > - If you develop your application using a Model/View/Controller schema, it > > will be easy to make it look like an elementary OS just changing the View > > and leaving the original sources for Models and Controllers. > > > > This is why a lot of applications work across different systems, they get > > the "view/look" from the core libraries and work with a non "core" language. > > > > This is an appropriate way of developing applications, it works well not > > only for Linux but also for OSX, Windows, iOS, Android, ... > > > > > -- > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > -- > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Other languages? (Was Re: Congratulations Luna developers!)
So you want us to document how to build a "elementary style" app in any possible language? Thanks but no thanks. IMHO we should provide generic goals and guidelines as to how an application should work and what it should look like, and preferably describe a set of tools with which you could achieve that. Vala is just the tool elementary agreed upon to use for core apps, and it makes sense to use that knowledge to also create third party apps. If you prefer to use different tools for third party apps, that's entirely OK. But it makes no sense to try to document any possible tool with which you could make an elementary style app. -- Jaap On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 11:39 PM, Jakob Eriksson wrote: > Then there is an education / PR problem on the elementary.org page. > > It should be made clear how to make a HIG compliant app in any (where > any=C++, hehe) language. > > > > On 2013-08-21 23:32, Albert Palacios Jimenez wrote: > > > > I think there are some misunderstandings: > > > > - The HIG is a must for core elementary OS applications but a > recommendation for third party ones. > > > > - If you develop your application using a Model/View/Controller schema, > it will be easy to make it look like an elementary OS just changing the > View and leaving the original sources for Models and Controllers. > > > > This is why a lot of applications work across different systems, they > get the "view/look" from the core libraries and work with a non "core" > language. > > > > This is an appropriate way of developing applications, it works well not > only for Linux but also for OSX, Windows, iOS, Android, ... > > > > > -- > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Other languages? (Was Re: Congratulations Luna developers!)
Then there is an education / PR problem on the elementary.org page. It should be made clear how to make a HIG compliant app in any (where any=C++, hehe) language. On 2013-08-21 23:32, Albert Palacios Jimenez wrote: > > I think there are some misunderstandings: > > - The HIG is a must for core elementary OS applications but a recommendation > for third party ones. > > - If you develop your application using a Model/View/Controller schema, it > will be easy to make it look like an elementary OS just changing the View and > leaving the original sources for Models and Controllers. > > This is why a lot of applications work across different systems, they get the > "view/look" from the core libraries and work with a non "core" language. > > This is an appropriate way of developing applications, it works well not only > for Linux but also for OSX, Windows, iOS, Android, ... > -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Other languages? (Was Re: Congratulations Luna developers!)
I think there are some misunderstandings: - The HIG is a must for core elementary OS applications but a recommendation for third party ones. - If you develop your application using a Model/View/Controller schema, it will be easy to make it look like an elementary OS just changing the View and leaving the original sources for Models and Controllers. This is why a lot of applications work across different systems, they get the "view/look" from the core libraries and work with a non "core" language. This is an appropriate way of developing applications, it works well not only for Linux but also for OSX, Windows, iOS, Android, ... On Aug 21, 2013, at 11:23 PM, Jakob Eriksson wrote: > On 2013-08-21 23:20, Albert Palacios Jimenez wrote: >> >> You can find non Vala applications at the software center, you can sell >> applications written in "whatever" language as long as they run properly. >> >> It is just that you application won't benefit of the Elementary + Granite + >> Vala ecosystem. It will probably look ugly and less appealing to your >> potential customers. >> > > > Is the mission to spread Vala or Elementary? > As long as apps with the "Elementary feeling" can only be done in Vala, > few third party developers will catch the train. > > Also what is "properly"? Will apps with substandard and ugly behaviour > which does not follow the HIG be allowed in the software center? > > --jakob > -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Other languages? (Was Re: Congratulations Luna developers!)
On 2013-08-21 23:20, Albert Palacios Jimenez wrote: > > You can find non Vala applications at the software center, you can sell > applications written in "whatever" language as long as they run properly. > > It is just that you application won't benefit of the Elementary + Granite + > Vala ecosystem. It will probably look ugly and less appealing to your > potential customers. > Is the mission to spread Vala or Elementary? As long as apps with the "Elementary feeling" can only be done in Vala, few third party developers will catch the train. Also what is "properly"? Will apps with substandard and ugly behaviour which does not follow the HIG be allowed in the software center? --jakob -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Other languages? (Was Re: Congratulations Luna developers!)
Like Dan said, you can write 3rd party applications in whatever language, but core elementary apps will use vala On Aug 21, 2013 10:20 PM, "Albert Palacios Jimenez" wrote: > > You can find non Vala applications at the software center, you can sell > applications written in "whatever" language as long as they run properly. > > It is just that you application won't benefit of the Elementary + Granite > + Vala ecosystem. It will probably look ugly and less appealing to your > potential customers. > > > > > > > > On Aug 21, 2013, at 11:14 PM, Jakob Eriksson > wrote: > > > On 2013-08-21 22:59, A. "Xylon" V. wrote: > >> The thing about vala is that its simple enough to learn, but is still > very > >> powerful and is extremely fast. The best thing is that it was made for > Gtk, > >> which is perfect for elementary. > >> > >> More languages would mean that we wouldn't have unity across the > >> applications - I do however, think that this would attract developers, > >> especially since vala does not have very good tutorials, or books. > > > > That is an understatement. Not having support for other languages is > > sort of insane. > > > > Scenario: > > > > I am a developer. I develop an application for Windows and, against > > commercial reason, make a Linux version of it too. It's coded in a mix > > of C++ and Python. > > > > I think Elementary is just fantastic, so just out of love I want to make > > my Linux app an Elementary version. I read the HIG and love it. > > > > Then I go to http://elementaryos.org/docs/code on the FIRST page I read: > > > > "If you're not familiar with Vala, we highly encourage you to brush up > > on it before coming here." > > > > Sorry say what? No, not going to happen. I can't redo my app in Vala, > > even if I wanted to, because that means I can't run it on Windows. (Or > > OSX, or iOS.) > > > > > > The dev page should read something like "for Elementary core apps we use > > Vala as a programming language. If you want to create your own > > Elementary apps, we encourage you to try out Vala, which is a fantastic > > language. If you want to use another language, that's fine too. Here are > > example Hello World Elementary apps written in C++, Objective C, Python > > and Ruby." > > > > > > --jakob > > > > -- > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > > Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > -- > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Other languages? (Was Re: Congratulations Luna developers!)
You can find non Vala applications at the software center, you can sell applications written in "whatever" language as long as they run properly. It is just that you application won't benefit of the Elementary + Granite + Vala ecosystem. It will probably look ugly and less appealing to your potential customers. On Aug 21, 2013, at 11:14 PM, Jakob Eriksson wrote: > On 2013-08-21 22:59, A. "Xylon" V. wrote: >> The thing about vala is that its simple enough to learn, but is still very >> powerful and is extremely fast. The best thing is that it was made for Gtk, >> which is perfect for elementary. >> >> More languages would mean that we wouldn't have unity across the >> applications - I do however, think that this would attract developers, >> especially since vala does not have very good tutorials, or books. > > That is an understatement. Not having support for other languages is > sort of insane. > > Scenario: > > I am a developer. I develop an application for Windows and, against > commercial reason, make a Linux version of it too. It's coded in a mix > of C++ and Python. > > I think Elementary is just fantastic, so just out of love I want to make > my Linux app an Elementary version. I read the HIG and love it. > > Then I go to http://elementaryos.org/docs/code on the FIRST page I read: > > "If you're not familiar with Vala, we highly encourage you to brush up > on it before coming here." > > Sorry say what? No, not going to happen. I can't redo my app in Vala, > even if I wanted to, because that means I can't run it on Windows. (Or > OSX, or iOS.) > > > The dev page should read something like "for Elementary core apps we use > Vala as a programming language. If you want to create your own > Elementary apps, we encourage you to try out Vala, which is a fantastic > language. If you want to use another language, that's fine too. Here are > example Hello World Elementary apps written in C++, Objective C, Python > and Ruby." > > > --jakob > > -- > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Other languages? (Was Re: Congratulations Luna developers!)
On 2013-08-21 22:59, A. "Xylon" V. wrote: > The thing about vala is that its simple enough to learn, but is still very > powerful and is extremely fast. The best thing is that it was made for Gtk, > which is perfect for elementary. > > More languages would mean that we wouldn't have unity across the > applications - I do however, think that this would attract developers, > especially since vala does not have very good tutorials, or books. That is an understatement. Not having support for other languages is sort of insane. Scenario: I am a developer. I develop an application for Windows and, against commercial reason, make a Linux version of it too. It's coded in a mix of C++ and Python. I think Elementary is just fantastic, so just out of love I want to make my Linux app an Elementary version. I read the HIG and love it. Then I go to http://elementaryos.org/docs/code on the FIRST page I read: "If you're not familiar with Vala, we highly encourage you to brush up on it before coming here." Sorry say what? No, not going to happen. I can't redo my app in Vala, even if I wanted to, because that means I can't run it on Windows. (Or OSX, or iOS.) The dev page should read something like "for Elementary core apps we use Vala as a programming language. If you want to create your own Elementary apps, we encourage you to try out Vala, which is a fantastic language. If you want to use another language, that's fine too. Here are example Hello World Elementary apps written in C++, Objective C, Python and Ruby." --jakob -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Other languages? (Was Re: Congratulations Luna developers!)
You can do whatever you like in your own 3rd party app, but we want everything shipped on the disc to be in Vala to lower the barrier of entry for contributors and to make development easier for ourselves as well. — Sent from Mailbox for iPhone On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 2:03 PM, Albert Palacios Jimenez wrote: > In my opinion blessing other languages will create fragmentation. Developers > from one application won't be able to help other applications because of the > different language. We have a lot of examples, pantheon-files is one of them > but also external libraries that doesn't really fit. > On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:54 PM, Jakob Eriksson wrote: >> On 2013-08-21 22:35, Kurt Smolderen wrote: >> >>> look at the code. As Vala is currently missing a decent IDE (such as >>> Eclipse,...) and debugging isn't as easy due to the fact the code is >>> translated into C, its often very difficult to analyse the flow of a >>> program. Available tests might help this initial contributors with >> >> >> And when will it be "blessed" to create Elementary apps in another >> language than Vala? If Elementary would "open up" to other languages, >> we could REALLY see increased productivity and more contributors. >> IMHO Objective C, C++ and maybe even Java via GCJ would be the obvious >> candidates. >> >> --jakob >> >> >> -- >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community >> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > -- > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp-- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Other languages? (Was Re: Congratulations Luna developers!)
In my opinion blessing other languages will create fragmentation. Developers from one application won't be able to help other applications because of the different language. We have a lot of examples, pantheon-files is one of them but also external libraries that doesn't really fit. On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:54 PM, Jakob Eriksson wrote: > On 2013-08-21 22:35, Kurt Smolderen wrote: > >> look at the code. As Vala is currently missing a decent IDE (such as >> Eclipse,...) and debugging isn't as easy due to the fact the code is >> translated into C, its often very difficult to analyse the flow of a >> program. Available tests might help this initial contributors with > > > And when will it be "blessed" to create Elementary apps in another > language than Vala? If Elementary would "open up" to other languages, > we could REALLY see increased productivity and more contributors. > IMHO Objective C, C++ and maybe even Java via GCJ would be the obvious > candidates. > > --jakob > > > -- > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Other languages? (Was Re: Congratulations Luna developers!)
The thing about vala is that its simple enough to learn, but is still very powerful and is extremely fast. The best thing is that it was made for Gtk, which is perfect for elementary. More languages would mean that we wouldn't have unity across the applications - I do however, think that this would attract developers, especially since vala does not have very good tutorials, or books. On Aug 21, 2013 9:54 PM, "Jakob Eriksson" wrote: > On 2013-08-21 22:35, Kurt Smolderen wrote: > > > look at the code. As Vala is currently missing a decent IDE (such as > > Eclipse,...) and debugging isn't as easy due to the fact the code is > > translated into C, its often very difficult to analyse the flow of a > > program. Available tests might help this initial contributors with > > > And when will it be "blessed" to create Elementary apps in another > language than Vala? If Elementary would "open up" to other languages, > we could REALLY see increased productivity and more contributors. > IMHO Objective C, C++ and maybe even Java via GCJ would be the obvious > candidates. > > --jakob > > > -- > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Elementary-dev-community] Other languages? (Was Re: Congratulations Luna developers!)
On 2013-08-21 22:35, Kurt Smolderen wrote: > look at the code. As Vala is currently missing a decent IDE (such as > Eclipse,...) and debugging isn't as easy due to the fact the code is > translated into C, its often very difficult to analyse the flow of a > program. Available tests might help this initial contributors with And when will it be "blessed" to create Elementary apps in another language than Vala? If Elementary would "open up" to other languages, we could REALLY see increased productivity and more contributors. IMHO Objective C, C++ and maybe even Java via GCJ would be the obvious candidates. --jakob -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
