Re: [BUG] https://orgmode.org/elpa.html is obsolete [9.7-pre (release_9.6.29-1465-ge6c7b0.dirty @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Bastien Guerry]

Hi Ihor,

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> https://orgmode.org/elpa.html page is obsolete - it is describing
> now-discontinued Org ELPA and is not referenced from anywhere apart
> maybe from some links in the wild.

We can remove this page.

> Should we remove it and redirect https://orgmode.org/elpa.html to
> https://orgmode.org/org.html#Installation ?

Yes, the redirect is now in place.

Thanks for suggesting this!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: Update contact info

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Bastien, may you please confirm? 

I do, thanks!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

[BUG] Test - please ignore

[Bastien Guerry]

Does Woof catch this?

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [PATCH] Remove warning about org-clock-save.el lacking lexical-binding directive

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> And they reverted the warning at the end.
> https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit?id=d51de0c5d90117bc1dc4bc5bc700253d71cd4579

Yes, it makes sense.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [BUG] tracker.orgmode.org does not track anything since March 8, 2024

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> A few bug reports and patches arrived but nothing is reflected on the
> Woof! list.

Yes, confirmed, I will have a closer look at this today or tomorrow.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [PATCH] Remove warning about org-clock-save.el lacking lexical-binding directive

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> I think that it is premature.
> This is a warning recently introduced on Emacs master, and it is still
> being debated upon. See
> https://yhetil.org/emacs-devel/50e29988-d354-4d10-990f-31828dbe6...@gmail.com/t/#u

Okay, fair enough.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [BUG] Commit a2e5685e4 introduces a regression

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Fixed, on main.
> I removed the folding part, but forgot to add invisible property
> handling.
> https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git/commit/?id=c8bd2092b

Great, thanks!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [PATCH] Silence a warning in org-table.el

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> It just _seems_ trivial. This innocently-looking patch will break tests.
>
> Duplicate of https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/875y2oxfd8@red-bean.com/T/#u
> Canceled.

Doh!  And I already reverted this myself!  I'm getting old.

Thanks.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [BUG] Exporting lists of >100 items to markdown

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Fixed, on bugfix.
> https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git/commit/?id=24feef95e

Thanks!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [BUG] tracker.orgmode.org does not track anything since March 8, 2024

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Woof! does not seem to update the new emails any more.
> https://tracker.orgmode.org/?sorting-by=date page only contains emails
> back from March. No new bugs/requests/news are visible.

I restarted Woof, let's see if the dog is barking again.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [DISCUSSION] Add "Recent News" to orgmode.org

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Maybe we should add an equivalent of `worg-publish-stop-on-error' to
> orgweb publish process?

Good idea, done.  Let's see if it helps!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: columnview dynamic block - different time summing behaviour for EFFORT and CLOCKSUM

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Thanks!
> The patch is ready to be merged.
> Bastien, may you please confirm the FSF records?
> Alexander should have the copyright signed.

Yes, he has, thanks!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [PATCH] Ensure org-table-header displays without cursor inside table

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> P.S. Bastien, may your please check Lei Zhe's copyright status?

Yes, I confirm Lei Zhe copyright status is okay.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: Update contact info

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Bastien, may you check which name is used in the FSF records?

I've taken this offlist.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [PATCH] Create commands for org-read-date-minibuffer-local-map

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Bastien, may you please check FSF records?

Yes, Laurence copyright status is okay.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [WORG] 2680e65 * org-maintenance.org (Copyright assignments): Minor improvements

[Bastien Guerry]

Adam Porter  writes:

> Sure.  I've pushed that, adding a "co-authored-by" line for Bastien.

Thanks!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [WORG] 2680e65 * org-maintenance.org (Copyright assignments): Minor improvements

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Sounds reasonable.

OKay -- feel free to go ahead with whatever version you find best.

> It is a longer period compared to 5 business days mentioned in
> https://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain/maintain.html, but the copyright clerk
> is just a single guy taking care about all the requests...

Hence my proposal to wait at least for one month. 

IMO it is not a problem if Org and other GNU packages propose distinct
ping'ing policies as long as the shorter period (one month for Org) is
not shorter than the one proposed for GNU in general (one week, IIUC.)

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [WORG] 2680e65 * org-maintenance.org (Copyright assignments): Minor improvements

[Bastien Guerry]

Until Org maintainers get an email confirmation for when a copyright
assignment process is done, we can simply suggest contributors to wait
a month before pinging the copyright clerk and to CC Org maintainers
when doing so.  WDYT?

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [ANN] Emergency bugfix release: Org mode 9.6.23

[Bastien Guerry]

Thanks a lot for your work on this!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [DISCUSSION] Add "Recent News" to orgmode.org

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> It looks like there is some problem with publishing index.org in
> particular. I made several changes, but none of them is visible on
> orgmode.org. At the same time, my changes to tools.org page are
> visible.

Yes -- perhaps this error has something to do with this:
https://builds.sr.ht/~bzg/job/1176324#task-build-41

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: Worg build status?

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> This is still a problem. Likely on Sourcehut side.

Yes, I haven't received an answer from sr.ht yet, too bad.

> For now, only Bastien can trigger the builds.

In the meantime, I've set up a cron job to publish Worg every 12
hours, this is not entirely satisfactory, just a bit better.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: Worg build status?

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> This is still a problem. Likely on Sourcehut side.
> For now, only Bastien can trigger the builds.

FWIW I've just asked the question here:
https://lists.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/sr.ht-discuss/%3C87frwldwqw.fsf%40bzg.fr%3E

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [DISCUSSION] Add "Recent News" to orgmode.org

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> After
> https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/orgweb/commit/d7b6524cf62a947db64d29c5bf879499ab8951d7,
> not only blogs are included in the front page of orgmode.org, but also
> bug reports and everything else.

Yes, https://tracker.orgmode.org/index.org includes everything.

> I do not see much problem listing announcements, blogs, and requests
> there; but bug reports are probably not something we want to show to
> newbies right at the front page.

I restricted it to "news": https://tracker.orgmode.org/news.org

> Also, what do you think about the following ideas:
>
> 1. Adding a header before the recent news list. Maybe something like
>"Project heartbeat".
>
> 2. Moving recent news after features/install/quickstart/contribute
>    buttons.

Yes, please go as you see fit.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [DISCUSSION] Add "Recent News" to orgmode.org

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Something like the attached maybe.

Thanks! Applied: https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/woof/commit/177ea5b1

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [DISCUSSION] Add "Recent News" to orgmode.org

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Bastien Guerry  writes:
>
>> Ihor Radchenko  writes:
>>
>>> Wouldn't a cron job work? Similar to how we schedule CI for Org mode
>>> tests.
>>
>> I've set this cron job to run every six hours and limited the number
>> of entries to 5 to not clutter the homepage.
>
> Note that
> https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/orgweb/commit/c9531ba7ad7647d7322c06e8dd8ee3fabbb992a8
> has stray unresolved conflict markers:
>
> +<<<<<<< HEAD

Oups, fixed.

> Also, it looks like https://tracker.orgmode.org/index.org does not sort
> links by date. It would be nice if top 5 links were also the most recent.

Yes, indeed. I'll see when I can hack on this. Help from Clojure
hackers is welcome here: https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/woof

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [DISCUSSION] Add "Recent News" to orgmode.org

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Wouldn't a cron job work? Similar to how we schedule CI for Org mode
> tests.

I've set this cron job to run every six hours and limited the number
of entries to 5 to not clutter the homepage.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [ANN] Please share useful blog posts on this list with the [BLOG] subject prefix

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Bastien  writes:
>
>> Adding [BLOG] or [TIP] in the subject prefix allows for such messages
>> to be referenced on https://tracker.orgmode.org/news (along with [ANN]
>> messages). 
>>
>> It will then be possible to include these posts in the orgmode.org
>> homepage, using e.g. https://tracker.orgmode.org/news.rss.
>>
>> This is experimental, let's see if this helps spread the word about
>> useful blogs.
>
> I am looking at https://tracker.orgmode.org/news and I feel that mixing
> blog/tip entries with important announcements may not be very good idea.
> May we put the blogs into a separate tab, leaving announcements stand
> out?

Yes, this is a possibility.

> Also, I do not see
> https://list.orgmode.org/877cihmr45@posteo.net/T/#u listed.
> May it be because in "[tip] Export to PDF with latexmk 'continuous
> preview' option", "tip" is lowercase?

This should not be case-sensitive - I will check when I have some free
time.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [PATCH] org-agenda: Make sure skipping warning/delay days never increases their number

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Bastien, may you please check FSF records?

Done, and confirmed things are in order.  Welcome!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: A question about local/experimental branches

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> AFAIU, Juan does not have write access to savannah.
> Should we give it? Of course, if he is willing to use savannah. Any
> other public repo is also fine.

Juan, let me know if you need access:
https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contribute.html#devs

Thanks!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [DISCUSSION] Add "Recent News" to orgmode.org

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Wouldn't a cron job work? Similar to how we schedule CI for Org mode
> tests.

Yes, you're right!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [ANN] Please share useful blog posts on this list with the [BLOG] subject prefix

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> As long as the fraction of non-English posts is small, I do not think
> that it matters too much. (Of course, having a translation would be
> helpful, but we cannot demand such thing.)

I suggest we stick to the policy of using english as the language for
the list: sharing posts written in other languages is okay as long as
we share the summary in english in the emails. That's also better for
search the list's archive IMHO.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [ANN] Please share useful blog posts on this list with the [BLOG] subject prefix

[Bastien Guerry]

Hi Juan,

Juan Manuel Macías  writes:

> Great! Just one question: can articles be shared in languages other than
> English? In that case, would it be necessary to add some more
> prefixes, such as "Spanish", "French", "Italian", "Greek", etc.?

Yes, you can use "[BLOG] [Spanish] ..." so that people adapt their
filters, but the second prefix won't have any effect on Woof.

But because the language for discussing on this list is english, I
believe the summary should be in english - then people can use i18n
tools to get to the contents.

How does this sound?

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [DISCUSSION] Add "Recent News" to orgmode.org

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> And we may trivially add the recent BLOG posts using something like
>
> #+INCLUDE: "https://tracker.orgmode.org/index.org; :lines 1-10

Yes, but the non-trivial thing is to schedule the CI regularily so
that index.html is updating regularily.  I believe integrating a RSS
feed with some free JS code could work.  Patch welcome!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

[BLOG] Org Capturing Introduction

[Bastien Guerry]

The org-capture function is quite useful for some workflows, however,
the standard documentation for it quickly jumps into template writing
without really explaining its use case. The following essay attempts
to be a gentle introduction to org-capture. I will assume you are
familiar with both Org and Emacs, but don’t know anything about
org-capture.

https://howardism.org/Technical/Emacs/capturing-intro.html

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: A question about local/experimental branches

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> I am not sure if experimental branches can go directly to our savannah,
> like what Emacs does.
> Bastien, WDYT?

We did that in the past with Org repo, I see no reason for not doing
it again with the current Git repo on Savannah: feel free to push
experimental branches.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [BUG] FAQ asnwer for "How can I use arbitrary colors for words/sentences in HTML export?" is outdated

[Bastien Guerry]

Max Nikulin  writes:

> Bastien, could you, please, have a look at the CI configuration. I do
> not see recent builds in
> https://builds.sr.ht/~bzg/worg

I just triggered a new build myself.

The secret key needed to launch the build has been shared with other
users, including Ihor and you: can you (or Ihor) tell me if you see a
shared key somewhere in your sr.ht profile?

There has been a change in builds.sr.ht: now only pushes by the owner
trigger a build, *unless* the owner shared the secret key with other
users. So far I don't understand why users with whom I've shared the
key cannot trigger a build.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [DISCUSSION] Add "Recent News" to orgmode.org

[Bastien Guerry]

I'm all for any experiment that will help interesting Org post get
more traction.

If someone wants to play with https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/orgweb so that 
it includes latest Org posts from Sacha's URL, please go ahead!

A complementary suggestion: let's activate the "Blog" tab on Woof (at
https://tracker.orgmode.org) so that when people send an email to the
list prefixed with [BLOG], it is referenced on this tab. Then, a RSS
feed is available from https://tracker.orgmode.org/blog.rss that we
can parse on orgmode.org.

Let me know if activating the detection of BLOG posts on the mailing
list sounds useful.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: org-contrib: Remove org-eval-light.el and org-evel.el

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> According to https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/#org4b339dd,
> org-eval-lite "... is a reworking of Carsten's org-eval with the goals
> of a more uniform syntax, safer default execution rules, and increased
> ease of execution. Written by Eric Schulte. Link to raw file. This
> modules has been superseded by the Org Babel functionality, which is
> ^^
> part of the Org core and documented in the manual."
>
> The same for org-eval.
>
> Considering how long Org Babel is a part of Org core, it is probably the
> time to remove org-eval-light and org-eval from org-contrib - they are
> of no use.

Done in 0.5 too, thanks!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [BUG] org-contrib/org-static-mathjax is not operational [9.7-pre (release_9.6.18-1153-gee395b.dirty @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Bastien Guerry]

Hi Ihor,

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Since we observe no bug reports about org-static-mathjax, it does not
> look like anyone at all is using it.
>
> Should we obsolete the library?

I removed org-static-mathjax.el from org-contrib and released 0.5.

Thanks!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [FR] Org mode sr.ht project page: add familiar links for newcomers

[Bastien Guerry]

Hi Ihor,

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Sourcehut is known for unusual interface that looks foreign for users
> coming from GitHub background.
>
> Some SourceHut projects employ an approach to use Github-compatible
> terminology and link to the corresponding Sourcehut pages:
>
> [Issues] [Pull requests] [Discussions] [Wiki]
>
> I suggest doing the same, with the following mapping:
>
> [[orgmode.org/][Home page]]
> [[https://tracker.orgmode.org/][Issues]]
> [[mailto:emacs-orgmode@gnu.org][New issue]]
> [[https://tracker.orgmode.org/patches][Pull requests]]
> [[https://list.orgmode.org/][Discussions]]
> [[https://orgmode.org/worg/][Wiki]]

Done here: https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/org/commit/b6234e0

Feel free to enhance it!

> It would also be nice to have "New issue" button in
> https://tracker.orgmode.org/

Noted here:
https://lists.sr.ht/~bzg/woof/%3C87wmqulzne.fsf%40bzg.fr%3E

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: bug#66291: [Leo Vivier] [PATCH] orgalist: Update bug:31361 workaround for new upstream signature

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Nicolas Goaziou  writes:
>
>> To answer Ihor's question : I'm out of touch concerning Org development,
>> so maintaining a package such as Orgalist may be problematic at some
>> point, indeed.
>
> Then, may we need to ask someone to help maintaining orgalist?
> Similar question about a number of Org mode libraries where you are
> listed as a maintainer.

Yes, we definitely need to do this!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: Ada/SPARK support in Babel

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> My initial assessment is that we might include babel support for Ada if
> it is accompanied by good set of tests, so that we do not need to worry
> too much about things breaking even if there is no ob-ada maintainer.
>
> ... and let's see if the original author is still interested to continue
> with his request.

FWIW +1

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [PATCH] org-ctags: Fix regexp to not break radio targets

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Martin Marshall  writes:
>
>> Ihor Radchenko  writes:
>>> I also see that you submitted a number of patches recently.
>>> For now, your contribution size is fairly small, but if you plan to
>>> contribute a lot more, please consider signing FSF copyright assignment.
>>> See https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contribute.html#copyright
>>
>> Thanks, I submitted a copyright assignment a year or two ago with
>> respect to a pull-request submitted for the which-key package.  Not sure
>> if it's project-specific, or if I'll need to submit a separate one
>> (which I'm happy to do of course).
>
> If your assignment has "GNU Emacs" in it, you are good to go.
>
> Bastien, may you please check FSF records?

Yes, Martin's FSF record is okay.  Thanks!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [PATCH v2] org-id: allow using parent's existing id in links to headlines

[Bastien Guerry]

Hi,

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> "Rick Lupton"  writes:
>
>> On Fri, 9 Feb 2024, at 12:09 PM, Ihor Radchenko wrote:
>>> May you please update on your FSF copyright assignment status?
>>
>> I believe the agreement is all signed and completed. 
>
> Bastien, may your please check FSF records?

Done, and it is well in order.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [PATCH] Fix org-agenda-skip-scheduled-if-deadline-is-shown bug

[Bastien Guerry]

Hi Ihor,

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> No response from Bastien.

Yes, sorry for that. In general, don't wait for my answer unless you
really needed it: you've got pre-approval as co-maintainer, I don't
want my current lack of availability to be a blocker.

Thanks,

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [BUG] FAQ asnwer for "How can I use arbitrary colors for words/sentences in HTML export?" is outdated

[Bastien Guerry]

Hi Max,

Max Nikulin  writes:

> Bastien, could you, please, have a look at the CI configuration. I do
> not see recent builds in
> https://builds.sr.ht/~bzg/worg

Thanks for the heads up. I've triggered the build for Worg. There is
something wrong with the CI configuration, not sure what yet, I need
to investigate.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [BUG] [WORG] Spurious file: https://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-R/tmp.html [9.7-pre (release_9.6.16-1057-gdea778 @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Bastien Guerry]

Hi Ihor,

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> It looks like https://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-R/tmp.html is a
> draft of https://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-R/org-R.html.
> tmp.html/tmp.org is also not referenced from anywhere.
>
> Should we remove it?

Sure, please go ahead.  Thanks!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [PATCH] doc/org-manual.org (Summary): Clarify the Org markup is human-readable

[Bastien Guerry]

Jean Louis  writes:

> It's primary use was for Emacs users to make notes, TODO tasks,
> etc. It is secondary that it became leightweight markup language that
> can export to various documents.

IMHO it has always been a _lightweight markup language_, used for
notes and TODO tasks, then soon enough for exporting too.

I got interested to Org back circa 2006 after I stopped working on a
small library called bhl.el: https://www.nongnu.org/bhl/

BHL was a lightweight markup language targetting export only. Org was
vastly superior in all accounts, so I contributed to Org.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [PATCH] Justify/align image previews in org-mode

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

>> From eb1b287c009c2f7eb83e7e31d64980ba79f44527 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
>> From: Karthik Chikmagalur 
>> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2023 12:56:33 -0800
>> Subject: [PATCH] org: Add image alignment
>
> Bastien, may you please confirm that Karthik's FSF assignment is in
> order?

Yes it is, since 2021.  Thanks for contributing!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [BUG] orgmode.org is not up-to-date with the latest orgweb master

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> I have recently merged Chinese translation for orgmode.org:
> https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/orgweb/commit/73e825a91bb6dd432d88b1b960e42c1f6a4a6f12
>
> However, https://orgmode.org/ does not reflect the changes.
>
> Bastien, may you please check the publish scripts?

I've launched it, the translation is online now.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [BUG] Should we remove the obsolete org-contrib/org-track.el?

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Shall we remove the obsolete org-track.el?
> It is an obsolete library, marked obsolete 11 years ago, inside
> minimally maintained repository. I suspect that it is now safe to remove
> it :)

Indeed, done!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [PATCH] [WORG] Maintenance: on the frequency of bugfix releases

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> I think that upper limit for bugfix release frequency is slightly in
> odds with the previous
>
> Org development is the work of volunteers, and we cannot promise to
> follow a release schedule.

You're right -- I've rephrase it like so:

  Security fixes trigger an immediate bugfix release. For other
  important fixes, we generally wait a week between bugfix releases.
  Whenever possible for the maintainers, we wait less than two weeks
  before releasing important fixes.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [PATCH] [WORG] Maintenance: on the frequency of bugfix releases

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> What do you think about the attached patch?

I like the idea.  I've pushed a slightly different version:
https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/worg/commit/45d6c45759

  Security fixes trigger an immediate bugfix release. Other important
  fixes should be accumulated for more than one week and for less than
  two weeks before a bugfix release.

It's important to allow immediate release for security fixes only, and
to let the dust settle for at least a week for other fixes.  

Is it okay for you?

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [BUG] [PATCH] Add yank-media and DND handler [9.6.7 (9.6.7-g6eb773 @ /home/viz/lib/emacs/straight/build/org/)]

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Before I proceed with installing it; Bastien, may you please confirm
> Visuwesh's copyright assignment status?

Confirmed and added to Worg. Thanks Visuwesh for contributing!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: Provide org-insert-subitem

[Bastien Guerry]

Hi Adam,

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Adam Porter  writes:
>
>> Well, it's been a few years since I forgot to bump this thread. [0]  :) 
>> I just rediscovered it after wondering why the command 
>> org-insert-subheading still doesn't have a default binding.  May we 
>> revisit this?  I find myself wanting to insert a subheading almost every 
>> day, and I have to "M-x org-insert-subheading RET".
>>
>> Of course I could bind it myself, and in one of my configs I have, but I 
>> still think it deserves a default binding, even if it were to be a 
>> "smart" command that worked like org-table-copy-down when in a table and 
>> does org-insert-subheading otherwise (because I still think that "S-RET" 
>> is an obviously appropriate binding for this command).
>>
>> What do you think?  =)
>
> I think that it still makes sense, even after all these years ;)

+1!  Thanks for reviving this thread.

I would suggest a larger set of enhancements here:

- S-RET on a heading copies down the heading.

  For that we would need a new command `org-clone-subtree' bound to
  S-RET that would immediately copy the heading at point. This command
  would accept a universal argument to allow for a number a clones and
  two universal arguments for adding a time shift.

  `org-clone-subtree-with-time-shift' would continue to be bound to
  `C-c C-x c' but would be really a call to `org-clone-subtree'

- S-RET on a list item calls `org-insert-subitem`, a new command.

- C-M-RET on a heading calls `org-insert-subheading', the existing
  command.

- C-M-RET on a list item calls `org-insert-subitem', a new command.

S-RET already "copy down" a table cells, so I'm really suggesting a
generalization of the current keybinding.

I like C-M-RET better than S-RET because inserting a subheading is
like a "subkey" or inserting a heading.

These improvements seem consistent.  WDYT?

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [PATCH] Move files when using org-babel-tangle-publish

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

>> Yes I have assigned copyright to the FSF already.
>
> Bastien, may you please confirm?

I do - I added Antero to the list of FSF-signed contributors on Worg.

Thanks!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: Org site is down

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Bastien Guerry  writes:
>
>> Let's see if Woof can track new patches and tasks, for example.
>> I'll monitor this, you don't need to worry about it right now.
>
> I do see patches and requests being added after the update, but not
> bugs. The latest registered bug report is from Nov 1 - see
> https://tracker.orgmode.org/bugs?sorting-by=date

Is it still a problem?  I have some time this week-end to look into
this more closely, please report any oddity.  Thanks,

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: Suggestion: User-contributed use-cases on orgmode.org ?

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> I don't think so. We intentionally keep Org mailing list as a single
> place for all the discussions, not just Org development.
> AFAIU, Bastien is firmly into this policy (CCing him in case if I
> misunderstood).

You didn't misunderstood: I firmly believe that we should use the Org
mailing list as the reference channel for Org discussions.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [BUG] https://tracker.orgmode.org/ is down (error 502)

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

>> Is it necessary to bring updates.orgmode.org up?
>
> I do not think so.

OK.

> We might put a redirect to tracker.orgmode.org though - some people are
> not yet aware about the new address (see
> https://old.reddit.com/r/orgmode/comments/17y0fme/is_the_update_page_for_org_mode_broken_or_has_it/)

Done, with a few redirections - see the new config:

https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/worg/commit/473f69ed67

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [BUG] https://tracker.orgmode.org/ is down (error 502)

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> https://tracker.orgmode.org/ 

Is up again.

> and https://updates.orgmode.org/ are
> currently down, both returning 502.

Is it necessary to bring updates.orgmode.org up?

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [ELPA] New package: ob-asymptote.el

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

>> It should be available within 24-48 hours at:
>>
>> https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/ob-asymptote.html

Good news, thanks!

> I am thus removing ob-asymptote from org-contrib.
> https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/org-contrib/commit/a56fb90b1696bb015abfbb04df08a1ebc589d686

Thanks.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [PATCH] doc/org-manual.org: Checkboxes, add checkbox states examples

[Bastien Guerry]

Sławomir Grochowski  writes:

>> Applied, with a minor modification, using 1. instead of 1) for the
>> list items.
>
> When will you merge the patch? https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/
> emacs/org-mode.git/

Done now.

> And when update will be visible on site https://orgmode.org/org.html#
> Checkboxes ?

When we release the main branch as a new stable version of Org, so not
so soon.

Best,

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [PATCH] Fix org-[beginning|end]-of-line with arguments

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Tomohisa Kuranari  writes:
>
>> Finally, the copyright assignment process was completed on 2023/09/20.
>
> Bastien, may you please check FSF records?

Done, I confirm Tomohisa Kuranari's record is okay.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: Org site is down

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> I just fixed a bug in 
> https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/87bkc744ub.fsf@localhost/
> So far, it is still listed in https://tracker.orgmode.org/bugs?sorting-by=date

It's probably the Woof bug mentioned before.

Let's see if Woof can track new patches and tasks, for example.
I'll monitor this, you don't need to worry about it right now.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: Org site is down

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

>> It should be back now, please report any problem you may notice.
>
> There are still issues with some bugs not being closed despite my emails
> containing the trigger keywords. However, it looks similar to
> https://lists.sr.ht/~bzg/woof/%3C87ilhjiw7g.fsf%40localhost%3E, so I
> assume that I just need to wait until the problem is solved.

Yes, this is probably the error.

Did you manage to get other bugs close? or to add tasks and patches?
This will prove that the inbox monitoring works correctly.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: Org site is down

[Bastien Guerry]

Bastien  writes:

> https://tracker.orgmode.org is back too but tracking new emails will
> not work for the next two hours or so.  I'll confirm when it's back.

It should be back now, please report any problem you may notice.

-- 
 Bastien

Re: [PATCH] Fix warning about using `eq' to compare strings.

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> I added a FIXME explaining the issue to make the problem more clear.

Good idea, thanks!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [BUG] CI jobs do not appear to be running

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

>> I've also updated the script which mirrors the main Org repository to
>> GitHub and Sourcehut, things are kept in sync every 3 hours.
>
> It does not look like there is any improvement.

Both cron jobs are now fixed, one that sync Org's repos every six
hours (instead of three) and one that checks every three hours for
changes in Org's repo and runs tests if needed.

I'll keep an eye on these scripts over the week-end, let me know
if something does not work as expected.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [BUG] CI jobs do not appear to be running

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> It does not look like there is any improvement.

Yes, something is wrong with cron. I'll have a look this week-end,
I don't have a stable connection right now.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [BUG] CI jobs do not appear to be running

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Still nothing, even though I did not address some recent
> failures, like "FAILED ob-octave/session-multiline".

I've pushed a fix, it should be okay now.

I've also updated the script which mirrors the main Org repository to
GitHub and Sourcehut, things are kept in sync every 3 hours.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [BUG] CI jobs do not appear to be running

[Bastien Guerry]

Hi Ihor,

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> May you also check if new commits in Org repo still trigger the check?

New commits in Org repo don't trigger the checks directly.

Instead, there is a cron job running every three hours and running the
checks iff there are new commits.

> https://lists.sr.ht/~bzg/org-build-failures ran the tests right after
> ,
> but my recent Org commits did not trigger anything.

Perhaps your email was sent less than three hours after the last
checks (I didn't check).

Can you check again after the next commits?  The cron job on the
machine is configured correctly and should run.  I'll see what's 
wrong if it does not run.

Thanks!

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Should we move constants.el by Carsten Dominik to Org orphanage?

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Bastien Guerry  writes:
>
>> I see no reason not to use
>> https://github.com/cdominik/constants-for-Emacs as the source for
>> constants.el, the package seems stable (as its name suggests...)
>
> I was mostly concerned that a pull request back from 2020 is still
> open.

AFAICT the PR is about whitespaces in the README, so not a blocker.

> That said, there is indeed no rush and actually no urgent need to do
> anything - it is not like we are getting an large inflow of bug reports
> related to constants.el.

Indeed :)

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [BUG] CI jobs do not appear to be running

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Yasushi SHOJI  writes:
>
>>  It appears that Emacs 27 lacks the optional argument for
>> `get-buffer-create`, while `org-element-parse-secondary-string`
>> relies on it. This problem was introduced by the commit 37d6bde27fe2.
>
> This was not caught by our CI tests for some reason, despite
> make test EMACS=emacs-27 failing locally.
> And the last message in https://lists.sr.ht/~bzg/org-build-failures is a
> month ago.

There was a problem with the oauth token not being able to interact
with the (legacy) builds.sr.ht API.  I've updated the script so that
it now uses the hut utility (see https://git.sr.ht/~emersion/hut) 
and tests are running again.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: Should we move constants.el by Carsten Dominik to Org orphanage?

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Maske  writes:
>
>> There are some links, that I am afraid don't work:
>> ...
>> ‘constants.el’ by Carsten Dominik [...] 
>> http://www.astro.uva.nl/~dominik/Tools.
>>
>>
>> # That link is dead. Maybe this would be the correct one: 
>> https://staff.fnwi.uva.nl/c.dominik/#orgf869524
>
> The source code at https://github.com/cdominik/constants-for-Emacs has
> not been changed since the end of 2020, and I have last seen Carsten
> being active on mailing lists at the beginning of 2021.

(My guess is that Carsten still skims through the list from time to
time.)

> So, we may instead consider marking the package at
> https://orgmode.org/worg/org-orphanage.html and maybe inside
> https://sr.ht/~bzg/org/ project.

I see no reason not to use
https://github.com/cdominik/constants-for-Emacs as the source for
constants.el, the package seems stable (as its name suggests...)

I've fixed the link in the manual.

Of course, if Carsten wants to move the package to Org orphanage, 
no problem.

Thanks,

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Unclear where ob-spice.el is being maintained

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Committed. Note that ob-spice was _not_ listed in the README.
> https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/org-contrib/commit/be51e9833b4f3393f4003c88131ba0a0a172c10d

Indeed!

> We may consider tagging a new release.

Yes, please go ahead as you see fit.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: Unclear where ob-spice.el is being maintained

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> "Christopher M. Miles"  writes:
>
>> Thanks, Updated now.
>>> ...
>>>> Jonas Bernoulli  writes:
>>>>
>>>>> In 2022 I changed Melpa to get ob-spice.el from
>>>>> https://repo.or.cz/ob-spice.git in response to
>>>>> https://github.com/melpa/melpa/issues/7872#issuecomment-1034945112.
>>>>>
>>>>> But org-contrib still contains that file and the README at the new
>>>>> location still contains
>
> Bastien, it looks like we can now remove ob-spice from org-contrib.
> Please, confirm.

I do, thanks.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [MAINTENANCE] Org orphanage?

[Bastien Guerry]

Jonas Bernoulli  writes:

> Please make your "membership" public at
> https://github.com/orgs/emacsorphanage/people.

Done, thanks!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [POLL] Should we accept breaking changes to get rid of Org libraries that perform side effects when loading?

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> org-inlinetask.el cannot exist outside Org core without all the extra
> support for inlinetasks across Org codebase.

I'm aware of this.

> So, what you are suggesting will completely remove inlinetasks
> feature.

I suggest removing the support for inline tasks *as they are designed
today*, yes.  I suggest reassessing the real problem we are trying to
solve here, and see if we can come up with an approach that does not
complexify Org's core syntax too much.

E.g. perhaps allowing a :noheadingexport: tag to prevent the export of
a heading would fit 90% of what is expected from inline tasks in the
example you gave.

> Yup. That's why I think that we need to make inlinetasks have distinct
> syntax.

I'm reluctant to supercharge Org's core syntax for this feature.
I may be wrong, but I'd love to see if inline tasks are widely used,
and if so, for what specific purpose.  Again, if the core feature is
to prevent some headings from being exported, then other approaches
can be explored.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [POLL] Should we accept breaking changes to get rid of Org libraries that perform side effects when loading?

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

>> I see.  So not only inline tasks are ugly syntactic-wise, but they
>> also have a specific behavior when exporting.  All this pleas for an
>> external module, not for something we support in Org's core IMHO.
>
> I do not think that it would be possible. In order to support
> inlinetasks in agenda/sparse trees/todo setting/tag setting, we need to
> modify the internals. I see no way around that.

Maybe we are miscommunicating: my suggestion is to _remove_
lisp/org-inlinetask.el from Org's core.

> Too many aspects of Org are designed for one specific heading syntax.
> Even modifying inlinetask *... syntax will likely require adding
> more special support where things "magically" work for now because
> inlinetasks often look the same as headings.

And that's part of the confusion: inline tasks _look like_ normal
tasks while behaving differently.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [POLL] Should we accept breaking changes to get rid of Org libraries that perform side effects when loading?

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> This will break export and folding.
> Also, I often simply archive inlinetasks once they are done. The above
> will archive too much.

I see.  So not only inline tasks are ugly syntactic-wise, but they
also have a specific behavior when exporting.  All this pleas for an
external module, not for something we support in Org's core IMHO.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [POLL] Should we accept breaking changes to get rid of Org libraries that perform side effects when loading?

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> ** Section X
>
> 
>
> 
> <...>
> 
> <...>
> 
> <...>
>
> *** TODO Task for paragraph N
>
> Then, if I jump to the TODO, for example, from agenda view, I still need
> to somehow find  location, which is awkward when the
> section has multiple screens of text.

And what about this?

   ** Section X
   
   
   
   
   <...>
   
   *** TODO Task for paragraph N
   
   
   <...>
   
   <...>
   
-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [POLL] Should we accept breaking changes to get rid of Org libraries that perform side effects when loading?

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> The benefit is that I do not need to search for that "paragraph N" when
> I want to work on the task. I simply jump to the task location and can
> immediately see the paragraph it refers to.

But this would be the same with a non-inlined task, right?

> Also, pdf export of such inlinetask will nicely mark the TODO item in
> the manuscript draft, so that I can print things, and still see what
> should be done in that particular location of the manuscript.

Yes, I see.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [POLL] Should we accept breaking changes to get rid of Org libraries that perform side effects when loading?

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> My personal use case is when using Org for authoring long texts.
> I often leave inline tasks around the specific paragraph I need to
> revise in future:
>
> * Section XX
> 
>
> 
>
> <...>
>
> * TODO Consider explaining more about X
> 
>
> <...>
>
> Then, I can easily review the manuscript status using sparse tree or
> agenda view.

I see -- but what is the real benefit of inline tasks here over normal
tasks?  I understand that  should not be considered as
the details for a task, but rather its "target", but inline task does
not seem to add much here.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [patch] Fix inner smart quotes in French

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Agree. We can factor out the language names into a separate constant and
> then use that constant as a source of "canonical" language names in
> :type definitions of defcustom. Then, we can turn all the other
> dictionary variables into defcustoms.

Yes, sounds good!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [POLL] Should we accept breaking changes to get rid of Org libraries that perform side effects when loading?

[Bastien Guerry]

"Fraga, Eric"  writes:

> I'll chime in regarding inlinetasks: I used to use these *a lot* but I
> found that drawers do what I needed in almost all cases very
> effectively (for my use cases).

It resonates with my experience too and I suspect (and kinda hope)
many inlinetasks users will feel the same once they use drawers.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [MAINTENANCE] Org orphanage?

[Bastien Guerry]

Hi Jonas,

Jonas Bernoulli  writes:

> IMO it would be a good idea if Bastien and/or Ihor joined the
> emacsorphanage and explicitly added themselves to these packages as
> admins.
>
> I think I would have to make you owners of emacsorphanage to allow you
> to do this and other useful things on your own.  I would happily give
> you those rights.  You will know better than me who else should get
> write access or even admin rights.  But I would ask you to not *delete*
> any repositories before consulting with me.  Also, ping me after adding
> a new repository.  How does that sound?

Sounds good to me too, I'm "bzg" on GitHub.  Thanks!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [patch] Fix inner smart quotes in French

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Bastien Guerry  writes:
>
>>>>> Are you referring to `org-export-smart-quotes-alist'? It is a defconst.
>>>>
>>>> Ah, indeed.  I'd say using a defcustom here would be useful.
>>>
>>> Is changing defconst to defcustom ok for bugfix?
>>
>> Nope, it's more an "evolution" than a bugfix.
>
> Ok. I changed it to defcustom on main.
> https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git/commit/?id=570cdacdb
>
> Note, however, that we have `org-export-dictionary' as a constant.
> Also, language names are not standardized across
> `org-export-dictionary', `org-export-default-language',
> `org-clock-clocktable-language-setup', `org-export-smart-quotes-alist',
> and `org-latex-language-alist'.

>From a quick look, I cannot find two conflicting language names (that
is, two strings like "fr" that refer to two distinct languages from
the variable you mention).

>From the same quick look, I believe `org-export-dictionary' contains
more entries than other variables--we could use languages names from 
this variable.

WDYT?

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [PATCH] Re: what is the purpose of "This link has already been stored"?

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Applied, onto main.
> https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git/commit/?id=6954fe93e

Thanks!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: Someone to help merging orgmode.org/contribute.html and orgmode.org/worg/org-contribute.html ?

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> I notice that the old https://orgmode.org/contribute.html is still lying
> around. Should we remove it? Or put a redirect?

I've put a redirect to https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contribute.html
and removed the old page.

Thanks!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: Htmlize support, maintenance, and Org mode

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Bastien Guerry  writes:
>
>> If not, then relying on engrave-faces, which is maintained and also
>> handles LaTeX, instead of htmlize, sounds like a good idea.
>
> I'd like to hear Timothy's opinion on this. He is the author of
> engrave-faces and the maintainer of ox-html.

Sure!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [PATCH] Re: what is the purpose of "This link has already been stored"?

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> See the attached tentative patch.

LGTM.

>> 2) Also remove the current C-u C-u C-u arg and make it the default
>>when a region is active.
>> ...
>> (2) should be done anyway.
>
> I studied this further and what you suggest will interfere with
> `org-link-context-for-files'. It will no longer be possible to select
> text very long
> and multi-line link description, M-x org-store-link, and get
> the selected text as stored link description.
>
> The current default of using active region as description makes more
> sense, IMHO.

Indeed.

So I was not that stupid when I added this C-u C-u C-u option :)

Thanks!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [patch] Fix inner smart quotes in French

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Bastien Guerry  writes:
>
>>> Are you referring to `org-export-smart-quotes-alist'? It is a defconst.
>>
>> Ah, indeed.  I'd say using a defcustom here would be useful.
>
> Is changing defconst to defcustom ok for bugfix?

Nope, it's more an "evolution" than a bugfix.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [PATCH] org.el: Respect org-extend-today-until in timestamps with ++

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> "Valentin G. J. Herrmann"  writes:
>
>> Ok, so I guess I was stupid in another way :E
>> I do in fact have the FSF copyright assignment (Though probably under an 
>> old email address: herr.valentin.m...@gmail.com). I still included the 
>> TINYCHANGE comment. The attached patch should finally work.
>
> Bastien, may you please check the FSF records?

I did, I'll provide more information offlist.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: Htmlize support, maintenance, and Org mode

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> That's what I meant. The latest thread named some issue with fine-tuning
> the output and never got any follow-up.

(Please ignore my suggestion to explore the htmlfontify.el scenario.)

>>> As for engrave-faces, it is working for both LaTeX and HTML export.
>>
>> Would that have the same issue has htmlize, that it copies the colours
>> from the currently active theme, causing issues when exporting a website
>> while a dark-theme is enabled?
>
> No. It can copy the current theme, but it is not the default. Instead,
> engrave-faces provides customization on how the faces should be
> re-mapped. Defaults are tuned to work for usual white backgrounds, but
> can be customized either using existing Emacs themes, or by hand,
> mapping Emacs faces to text colors and attributes.

It looks like engrave-faces already does a better job than htmlize.el,
and does it for LaTeX too, I see no drawback in using engrave-faces as
a replacement of htmlize.el.  Are there any?

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: Htmlize support, maintenance, and Org mode

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> That's fine to install htmlize. Org relies upon htmlize for certain
> features, including HTML export.

A while ago, it has been suggested to rely on htmlfontify.el, which is
part of Emacs core, instead of htmlize.el.

Maybe this is still relevant?

If not, then relying on engrave-faces, which is maintained and also
handles LaTeX, instead of htmlize, sounds like a good idea.

2 cts,

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [patch] Fix inner smart quotes in French

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

>> It's difficult to say what's more common but since we cannot expect
>> the « « inner » » style to be correctly implemented in, say, HTML, and
>> since, even in LaTeX, babel-french defaults to the « “inner” » style,
>> I suggest we stick to the « “inner” » style (this is a defcustom and
>> users can change it.)
>
> Are you referring to `org-export-smart-quotes-alist'? It is a defconst.

Ah, indeed.  I'd say using a defcustom here would be useful.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [PATCH] Re: what is the purpose of "This link has already been stored"?

[Bastien Guerry]

Hi Ihor,

Thanks for bearing with me while I discuss something is done, required
time and work, and isn't probably a priority.

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Bastien Guerry  writes:
>
>> (1) by always store the latest link on top and remove old dups.
>>
>> (2) always store latest link at the top and remove old dups and allow
>> to keep dups with 3 universal prefix args.
>> ...
>> I'm in favor of option (2) as it deals with the above use-case, and
>> storing a link for each lines in the active region should be the
>> default behavior anyway, with no need for a prefix arg.
>>
>> WDYT?
>
> I am not sure if C-u C-u C-u override is the best design.
> If the user wants to store duplicates, she will be forced to use C-u C-u
> C-u every single time. And a single slip forgetting to use the prefix
> arg will clear the already stored duplicates.

I am not convinced there are many users who want duplicate links by
default.  My guess is that for most users and in most cases, duplicate
links are unwanted -- in +10 years, nobody complained about the fact
that dups were not stored.

> Also, it is not clear how to use a single C-u or double C-u C-u yet
> keeping duplicates.

Indeed, that's an issue.

Here is another suggestion:

1) Remove the option and make adding the dup link on top the default.

2) Also remove the current C-u C-u C-u arg and make it the default
   when a region is active.

(1) is because removing this option would be a breaking change, and
inflincting a new option to every user to deal with a hypothetical
use-case does not seem right.

(2) should be done anyway.

WDYT?

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [DISCUSSION] The future of org-mouse.el and org-inlinetask.el

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> I'd say that we should not remove org-mouse.el, but instead load it by
> default. Maybe even fully integrating org-mouse.el into other libraries
> like org-keys.el and org.el.

+1 on that.

> For example, we can define inlinetasks as
>
> *> TODO inlinetask
> ***> TODO inlinetask
> ...

+1 on this one.

> *> TODO inlinetask
> Inlinetask contents
> *> END

-1 on this one -- I'd rather get rid of the

* TODO ...
* END

construct altogether.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [patch] Fix inner smart quotes in French

[Bastien Guerry]

Hi Juan,

Juan Manuel Macías  writes:

> In any case (apart from LaTeX), it is clear that I was wrong when I said
> that the inner quotes that my patch 'corrects' were 'incorrect'. 

Indeed, and thanks for the discussion, interesting.

> What I
> don't know is why babel-french defaults to the « “inner” » style. Is it
> the most used currently in France? If the « « inner » » style is more
> canonical, I don't mind having my patch 'fix' reverted.

It's difficult to say what's more common but since we cannot expect
the « « inner » » style to be correctly implemented in, say, HTML, and
since, even in LaTeX, babel-french defaults to the « “inner” » style,
I suggest we stick to the « “inner” » style (this is a defcustom and
users can change it.)

Thanks!

-- 
 Bastien Guerry

Re: [POLL] Should we accept breaking changes to get rid of Org libraries that perform side effects when loading?

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Yes, org-mouse modifies the behavior of certain key bindings. Not
> directly, but by advising `org-open-at-point'.

IIRC Emacs core libraries should not advise functions.
This is something we should fix.

Also, I'm not sure org-mouse.el has its place in Org's core nowadays.

> It changes the very notion of that is a headline - the syntax definition
> is altered. Very deeply nested headlines may become inlinetasks upon
> loading org-inlinetask, touching all aspects of Org, not just editing.

Same here, I'd be tempted to deny Org citizenship to inline tasks: it
always felt like a nice hack for a niche use-case, but a hack anyway.

If it modifies Org syntax in surprising ways, this is another argument
for removing org-inlinetask.el from Org's core.  Remember: this is not
to say that inline tasks are forbidden, it's just a message for users
that inline tasks are something not maintained by Org's core team.

> And it is not clear how to fix this. We did not make inlinetasks into
> standard Org syntax in the past and now it is in the weird state when we
> have (featurep 'org-inlinetask) sprinkled across the code just to
> accommodate for this conditional syntax.

Yes, this is ugly.

> Inlinetasks are too similar in syntax with headlines, so it is
> impossible to make the change backwards-compatible.
>
>>> With the current state of affairs, it is often enough to
>>> (require 'org-library) to get things work. If we get rid of all the
>>> possible side effects, users will have to adapt their configurations
>>> and we will thus violate "I won't force you to update your
>>> configuration."
>>
>> Defining new functions is a desirable "side-effect" of all Elisp
>> library, I don't think we should worry abou this.
>
> Defining new functions by itself is not a big deal. But there are parts
> of Org that alter their behavior depending on whether a feature is
> loaded (like org-inlinetask) or depending whether certain function
> symbol is defined (babel). Similarly, loading new link types re-defines
> Org syntax in all the documents, affecting editing of everything that
> looks like the loaded link type (org-ctags).

I feel like the stakes are not the same for features like org-mouse.el
and org-inlinetask.el and for core features like Babel libs and links.
For the former, a decision should be made relatively to the usefulness
of the feature; for the latter, loading libs (with side-effects on the
syntax) is required by the design of the core feature at hand (Babel
and links).

I'd focus on solving the problem with org-mouse and org-inlinetasks
first. Let's make a poll for org-mouse.el then for org-inlinetasks.el ?

-- 
 Bastien Guerry