Re: [O] Release Org 9.1 soon ?

[Bastien Guerry]

Hi Nicolas,

Nicolas Goaziou  writes:

> Meanwhile, I'm quite certain that excising Org Struct mode is the best
> option for Org core.

I agree, provided that we don’t deprive some users of some useful
functionalities.

-- 
 Bastien

Re: [O] Release Org 9.1 soon ?

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Bastien Guerry  writes:

> Even if the functionality is buggy and the implementation hugly, some
> users may still find it useful, we need to take care of providing good
> alternatives.

I'm not sure I agree. Org mode is a major mode. We focus on providing
decent handling of documents written in Org syntax. Mimicking Org
experience within other major modes is a completely different, optional,
task. We are doing our best to manage it, but if it gets in the way, it
can be dropped.

The problem here, as pointed out in the original message, is that Org
Struct mode, in addition to being buggy, affects in a bad way Org major
mode (basic navigation functions, maintainability...).

Unfortunately it cannot be extracted easily. It needs to be rewritten.
However, it may be smarter to use, and possibly extend, existing
libraries like Outshine (which I don't use) instead. Now, if someone
wants to implement a good alternative from the ground up, be my guest,
as long as it doesn't imply altering "org.el" in a non-trivial way.

Meanwhile, I'm quite certain that excising Org Struct mode is the best
option for Org core.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou0x80A93738

Re: [O] Release Org 9.1 soon ?

[Bastien Guerry]

Hi Kaushal and Nicolas,

Nicolas Goaziou  writes:

> There's no hurry anyways. I don't consider this to be a blocker for Org
> 9.1. Of course, it is better if it can be integrated before.

If org-set-tags is to be rewritten, we need to carefully test the
rewrite before integrating it.  So 9.2 is a decent goal for it,
assuming 9.2 will be closer to 9.1 than 9.1 to 9.0.

> Please do, but first, why do you think it is better to have it in core
> instead of, e.g., GNU Elpa? Doesn't "ox-publish" provide some static
> site generation features already?
>
> Also, "ox-hugo" requires "ox-blackfriday", which is another Markdown
> back-end. I'm not questioning the usefulness of this package, but
> I think we need very good reasons to provide overlapping features out of
> the box.

Indeed.  Again, the biggest issue here is that of discoverability,
and moving code into core is the simplest way, but not necessarily
the better.  We can expect new exporters to live in GNU ELPA (or
elsewhere) first, then to be included in core is there is a strong
support and a strong need for it.

-- 
 Bastien

Re: [O] Release Org 9.1 soon ?

[Bastien Guerry]

Hi Kaushal,

Kaushal Modi  writes:

> I'd also like to add a new Org exporter, ox-hugo. As adding it
> wouldn't break other Org functionality, would it be safe to add it
> before this master cut? About this, would it be OK to start by
> creating a scratch branch?

no problem at all for creating a Scratch branch for any purpose in
general, but please wait before adding more exporters.

I would like to set up something like https://gogs.io on the server
to move the code in contribs/ outside of Org’s repo, and to be more
conservative on what’s goes in Org’s core.

I plan to do this move in the next coming weeks, and to discuss it
on the mailing list precisely before, of course.

Thanks,

-- 
 Bastien

Re: [O] Release Org 9.1 soon ?

[Bastien Guerry]

Hi Nicolas,

I’m just back from vacation.

Nicolas Goaziou  writes:

> I think it would be good to release Org 9.1 before the end of the month,
> if possible.

Yes, that’s a good date.

> Is there any major issue left, or any important pending patch to apply
> before doing the merge?

I’ll have a look today and tomorrow and let you know if there is
something on my side.

> Once this is done, I will merge the "hide-column" branch in master.

Thanks.

> I will also take care of removing Org Struct mode from the code
> base.

What are the good alternatives?

Even if the functionality is buggy and the implementation hugly, some
users may still find it useful, we need to take care of providing good
alternatives.

-- 
 Bastien

Re: [O] Release Org 9.1 soon ?

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Kaushal Modi  writes:

> I need to create a new patch. Will do so in the coming week.

There's no hurry anyways. I don't consider this to be a blocker for Org
9.1. Of course, it is better if it can be integrated before.

>> I'd also like to add a new Org exporter, ox-hugo. As adding it wouldn't
>> > break other Org functionality, would it be safe to add it before this
>> > master cut? About this, would it be OK to start by creating a scratch
>> > branch?
>>
>> I think this can wait for Org 9.2. Inclusion in core may need to be
>> discussed and, in any case, code needs to be reviewed.

> Of course. Should I add that to a scratch branch for review?

Please do, but first, why do you think it is better to have it in core
instead of, e.g., GNU Elpa? Doesn't "ox-publish" provide some static
site generation features already?

Also, "ox-hugo" requires "ox-blackfriday", which is another Markdown
back-end. I'm not questioning the usefulness of this package, but
I think we need very good reasons to provide overlapping features out of
the box.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [O] Release Org 9.1 soon ?

[Kaushal Modi]

On Sat, Aug 26, 2017, 9:26 PM Nicolas Goaziou 
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Kaushal Modi  writes:
>
> > I still have the org-set-tags refactoring[1] pending on my plate.
>
> Is there anything left to do? Do you need more time or can we merge it?
>

I need to create a new patch. Will do so in the coming week.

> I'd also like to add a new Org exporter, ox-hugo. As adding it wouldn't
> > break other Org functionality, would it be safe to add it before this
> > master cut? About this, would it be OK to start by creating a scratch
> > branch?
>
> I think this can wait for Org 9.2. Inclusion in core may need to be
> discussed and, in any case, code needs to be reviewed.
>

Of course. Should I add that to a scratch branch for review?

> --

Kaushal Modi

Re: [O] Release Org 9.1 soon ?

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Kaushal Modi  writes:

> I still have the org-set-tags refactoring[1] pending on my plate.

Is there anything left to do? Do you need more time or can we merge it?

> I'd also like to add a new Org exporter, ox-hugo. As adding it wouldn't
> break other Org functionality, would it be safe to add it before this
> master cut? About this, would it be OK to start by creating a scratch
> branch?

I think this can wait for Org 9.2. Inclusion in core may need to be
discussed and, in any case, code needs to be reviewed.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [O] Release Org 9.1 soon ?

[Kaushal Modi]

On Sat, Aug 26, 2017, 4:19 AM Nicolas Goaziou 
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I think it would be good to release Org 9.1 before the end of the month,
> if possible.
>
> Is there any major issue left, or any important pending patch to apply
> before doing the merge?
>
> Once this is done, I will merge the "hide-column" branch in master.
> I will also take care of removing Org Struct mode from the code base.


Hello,

I still have the org-set-tags refactoring[1] pending on my plate.

I'd also like to add a new Org exporter, ox-hugo. As adding it wouldn't
break other Org functionality, would it be safe to add it before this
master cut? About this, would it be OK to start by creating a scratch
branch?

[1]: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2017-07/msg00292.html

-- 

Kaushal Modi

[O] Release Org 9.1 soon ?

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

I think it would be good to release Org 9.1 before the end of the month,
if possible.

Is there any major issue left, or any important pending patch to apply
before doing the merge?

Once this is done, I will merge the "hide-column" branch in master.
I will also take care of removing Org Struct mode from the code base.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou0x80A93738