[Orgmode] Re: RSI
+++ Adam Spiers [04/11/09 11:22 +]: On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 01:22:13PM -0500, Keith Lancaster wrote: Emacs can definitely lead to RSI - Richard Stallman, the creator, developed it. I am quite prone to RSI, which led me to VIM due to its modal operation (very few modifier key combos). I used VIM for quite a while and did not have any issues, but org-mode pulled me to emacs. I'm also late to this discussion, and wanted to mention viper mode. I've recently migrated to Emacs from Vim -- mostly for org-mode, and I don't think I could survive without Viper mode. :) Someone mentioned viper earlier in this thread, and having trouble with it with org-mode. Actually, I find it works fine. There are a couple gotchas, like avoiding dd for folded items (as mentioned). Use C-w or M-w to cut/copy a folded item. And you'll probably want to configure your .viper file a bit. But for me, at least, having spent years in Vim, Viper mode is well worth it. Besides, you can always C-z into Emacs mode if you need to. I don't need to for org-mode, but occasionally do for other other Emacs things--ledger-mode reconciling, for instance. Bill Powell -- _ http://stmarysmessenger.com : New Catholic magazine for kids! http://wineskinmedia.com : Books and sites crafted with care. http://billpowellisalive.com : Man found alive with two legs. _ ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: RSI
At Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:56:27 -0600, Dave Täht wrote: What I'd like is numlock to do the right thing, which to me, when on, is to not only turn on the numeric keypad, but shift the !...@#$%^*() characters so they don't need to be shifted to reach. And I don't know how to do that in xmodmap. I am not sure how to make the numlock key turn into a toggle that would make the number keys reverse their meaning. However, you could make the numlock key act as a modifier key which, in conjunction with any number key, would give the number you want. Or maybe the caps lock key will do what you want? Sorry I cannot be more helpful here; my use of xmodmap is limited to remapping specific keys such as the windows keys, the alg-gr key and the caps lock key. ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: RSI
At Sun, 13 Sep 2009 14:42:44 -0600, Dave Täht wrote: I keep meaning, one of these days, to figure out how to invert the upper row of the keyboard by default. I find it much easier to type numbers on the keypad, anyway, and hitting shift to get to !...@#$%^*() seems redundant. Interesting idea (although impractical for me as two of four keyboards I use daily do not have keypads...). If you are using X Windows, you could always remap trivially using xmodmap. ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: RSI
Eric S Fraga ucec...@ucl.ac.uk, Eric S Fraga ucec...@ucl.ac.uk writes: At Sun, 13 Sep 2009 14:42:44 -0600, Dave Täht wrote: I keep meaning, one of these days, to figure out how to invert the upper row of the keyboard by default. I find it much easier to type numbers on the keypad, anyway, and hitting shift to get to !...@#$%^*() seems redundant. Interesting idea (although impractical for me as two of four keyboards I use daily do not have keypads...). If you are using X Windows, you could always remap trivially using xmodmap. What I'd like is numlock to do the right thing, which to me, when on, is to not only turn on the numeric keypad, but shift the !...@#$%^*() characters so they don't need to be shifted to reach. And I don't know how to do that in xmodmap. -- Dave Taht http://the-edge.blogspot.com ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: RSI
First of all I am interested in improving the use of the modifier keys. To see what my preferences for moving them are read my (cisum) post here http://forum.colemak.com/viewtopic.php?pid=2552#p2552 and follow both links there. - Michael Samuel Wales wrote: Orgers, Repetitive strain injury is real and important. One thing that you can do is to ensure that you have a keyboard that has modifier keys on both sides. You should pound a new habit into your cerebellum: use two hands. For example, c-c c-o should look like this: r hand presses ctrl l hand presses c let go l hand presses ctrl r hand presses o let go This is obviously inefficient, but it is the correct thing. Ideally, the most important c-c and c-x operations would be on the lhs. That way, you can hold down ctrl and press the two keys. Many (maybe even most) will find this idea strange. But I urge all of you to try it for a few months. ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: RSI
Michael Brand michael.br...@alumni.ethz.ch writes: First of all I am interested in improving the use of the modifier keys. To see what my preferences for moving them are read my (cisum) post here http://forum.colemak.com/viewtopic.php?pid=2552#p2552 and follow both links there. I am quite carpal, and do a few things to compensate for it. I map capslock to control, always. I use abbrev-mode for stuff like I don't wouldn't shouldn't I'd and I'm, so I just type them lower case, without the quote, and abbrev expands them for me. (I would love it if someone wrote a clever routine to figure out when to use it's vs its, I can't ever get it right anyway. Something that would activate at the end of a sentence, look for an obvious verb, and take a best guess at the possessive or contraction form, but I digress...) I use auto-capitalize-mode to handle sentence starts and, also, words like Linux and LISP also get the correct casing treatment. (I'd love to have a much bigger list of abbrevs, I should go looking for one) These two modes in combination almost eliminates entirely my need to hit the shift key. In addition to cntrl-h being backspace, so is control-j. In text modes, I have been known to remap ; and ' to return. I figure for a few computer languages (like python) I could do that, too. I find making this context switch kind of hard (and it drives other people nuts)), however, I'd stopped doing it, until recently, because I wasn't running my life out of emacs and other apps don't take kindly to losing those keys. Although I agree with many of xah lee's suggestions ( http://xahlee.org/emacs/ergonomic_emacs_keybinding.html) about remapping emacs more ergonomically, he's wrong about meta. The second easiest thing for me to hit, after caps-lock, is the chord of capslock+shift. It's easier than alt or meta by far. That said, I have only mapped that to a few things because I just can't seem to stop using cntrl-x for commands, it's too ingrained. I'd like to save future generations pain, however... (Mostly where I remapped something that was normally cntrl-whatever, I made it cntrl-shift-whatever) I used to have a BTC keyboard with a split spacebar, half backspace, half space. Loved it. Why the spacebar has to be so huge and the other keys relatively so tiny bothers me a lot. Given the relative flexibility of my thumbs, I wouldn't mind a triply split keyboard spacebar - backspace, space, and control. I keep meaning, one of these days, to figure out how to invert the upper row of the keyboard by default. I find it much easier to type numbers on the keypad, anyway, and hitting shift to get to !...@#$%^*() seems redundant. -- Dave Taht http://the-edge.blogspot.com ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: RSI
Eric S Fraga ucec...@ucl.ac.uk, Eric S Fraga ucec...@ucl.ac.uk writes: At Tue, 01 Sep 2009 15:50:08 -0400, Matt Lundin wrote: key. Thus, short of using viper, the only solution that works for me is to use the Caps Lock key as Control. With that slight modification, I find emacs controls *very* comfortable (perhaps even as comfortable than Yes, making caps lock act as control is key to using emacs without pain (for me). However, it's not a full solution for some keyboards which don't have a caps lock key. Therefore, I'm intrigued by your reference to viper: is it possible to use, constructively and easily, viper with org-mode? If so, any pointers on how to accomplish this would be fantastic! A modal approach to writing/editing is fine with me. Well, I'm sorry to say that org-mode was the reason I abandoned viper. It's probably a limitation of mine, but I found it too confusing to go back and forth between all the C-c keys and viper's modal commands. I also found the behavior of dd and the like to be unpredictable when called on closed outline headings, drawers, etc. I much prefer the behavior of C-k in org-mode's native keybindings. I imagine there are others around here who have gotten it working. IMO, viper is fine for relatively simple text modes. But for more complex modes, I found it easier to stick with emacs' native keybindings. YMMV. - Matt ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: RSI
At Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:34:27 -0400, Matthew Lundin wrote: Well, I'm sorry to say that org-mode was the reason I abandoned viper. It's probably a limitation of mine, but I found it too confusing to go back and forth between all the C-c keys and viper's modal commands. I Thanks Matt. I kind of expected that to be the case. Oh well, I'll stick to standard emacs for now then! eric ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: RSI
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 07:50, PTspamfilteracco...@gmail.com wrote: Daniel Martins danielemc at gmail.com writes: Sticky keys takes some getting used to. It makes every modifier key work a little like caps lock. Sounds horrible, doesn't it? Well, it's not really. Basically, if you press control once, it locks control down for the next keystroke only, after which point the keyboard returns to normal. Press control twice, and it locks down until you release it with a third press. C-x C-f Used to be: press and hold control. Press and release x. press and release f. Release control. Now it's Press and release control twice. Press and release x. press and release f. Press and release control. I don't know which implementation you use, but with Windows' built-in sticky key setup there is no change compared to the usual order of keys: press/release ctrl, press/release x, press/release ctrl, press/release f No need to press and release control twice at the beginning, so it's the same number of keypresses as the usual method, you only need to pay attention you release the previous key before pressing the next one. yes, you can do it this way too, in fact I usually do for two-key sequences. You do have the option of locking down a modifier key by pressing it twice. Press once more to release it. Occasionally I find myself inputting a burst of keystrokes under the same modifier, in cases like that it can make sense to do this. (Think of it as a mode, in the way that word is used among the vi crowd.) I use that when I'm going to be repeating the same control key binding often, i.e. when I'm isearching through a document looking at all the matches: [ctrl] [s] sometext [ctrl][ctrl] [s] [s] [s] [s] [s] [s] [s] ... [ctrl] instead of [ctrl] [s] sometext [ctrl] [s] [ctrl] [s] [ctrl] [s] [ctrl] [ctrl] [s] [ctrl] [s] [ctrl] [s] [ctrl] [s] ... // Ben ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: RSI
At Tue, 01 Sep 2009 15:50:08 -0400, Matt Lundin wrote: key. Thus, short of using viper, the only solution that works for me is to use the Caps Lock key as Control. With that slight modification, I find emacs controls *very* comfortable (perhaps even as comfortable than Yes, making caps lock act as control is key to using emacs without pain (for me). However, it's not a full solution for some keyboards which don't have a caps lock key. Therefore, I'm intrigued by your reference to viper: is it possible to use, constructively and easily, viper with org-mode? If so, any pointers on how to accomplish this would be fantastic! A modal approach to writing/editing is fine with me. ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: RSI
Daniel Martins danielemc at gmail.com writes: Sticky keys takes some getting used to. It makes every modifier key work a little like caps lock. Sounds horrible, doesn't it? Well, it's not really. Basically, if you press control once, it locks control down for the next keystroke only, after which point the keyboard returns to normal. Press control twice, and it locks down until you release it with a third press. C-x C-f Used to be: press and hold control. Press and release x. press and release f. Release control. Now it's Press and release control twice. Press and release x. press and release f. Press and release control. I don't know which implementation you use, but with Windows' built-in sticky key setup there is no change compared to the usual order of keys: press/release ctrl, press/release x, press/release ctrl, press/release f No need to press and release control twice at the beginning, so it's the same number of keypresses as the usual method, you only need to pay attention you release the previous key before pressing the next one. This turns out to be easier on my hands because I don't find myself contorting my hands across the keyboard while I try to hold down more than one key at a time. Very true. Two keys should never be pressed with the same hand at the same time. ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: RSI
Clarification. On 2009-09-01, Samuel Wales samolog...@gmail.com wrote: Ideally, the most important c-c and c-x operations would be on the lhs. That way, you can hold down ctrl and press the two keys. I mean c-c c-letter not c-c letter here. -- Myalgic encephalomyelitis causes death (Jason et al. 2006) and severe suffering. Conflicts of interest are destroying research. What people know is wrong. Silence = death. http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/What_Is_ME_What_Is_CFS.htm ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: RSI
Samuel Wales samologist at gmail.com writes: One thing that you can do is to ensure that you have a keyboard that has modifier keys on both sides. You should pound a new habit into your cerebellum: use two hands. ... Many (maybe even most) will find this idea strange. But I urge all of you to try it for a few months. I agree it's a good idea. For those who think this approach is too radical I recommend trying out sticky keys as an alternative which also alleviates a bit the effects of the finger killing C-x/C-c and similar combinations: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/StickyModifiers ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
