Re: From macros to elisp programming?
Hi Ypo! You may find this useful too. I often use it when I want to put editing commands in my functions and I'm in a hurry and not in a mood to find their names - so for example I use (eek "C-l") instead of (recenter-top-bottom), or (eek " C-a C-SPC M-w C-y") to duplicate the line above the point... Cheers & happy hacking =), E. http://angg.twu.net/#eev ;; See: ;; http://angg.twu.net/eev-intros/find-eev-quick-intro.html#3 ;; (find-eev-quick-intro "3. Elisp hyperlinks") ;; (defun eek (str) "Execute STR as a keyboard macro. See `edmacro-mode' for the exact format.\n An example: (eek \"C-x 4 C-h\")" (interactive "sKeys: ") (execute-kbd-macro (read-kbd-macro str))) On Tue, 7 Dec 2021 at 09:55, Ypo wrote: > > Obrigado, Eduardo! > > I didn't know that command: "setq last-kbd-macro" and probably it will be > useful with elmacro too. > > (outline-next-visible-heading) ;; C-c C-n > > I save your instructions to my notes to use them :-) > > Saúde! > > > El 07/12/2021 a las 3:11, Eduardo Ochs escribió: > > On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 at 10:43, Ypo wrote: > > Hi > > I am able to make macros, but I think I am far away from Lisp programming. > > Is there a path to go from macros to elisp programming? For example, the last > macro I've made is for transforming the name of some headlines, adding in > front of them a part from the previous headline. This is the elisp code of > the macro: > > #+BEGIN_SRC > (fset 'SanzTema5 >(kmacro-lambda-form [?\C-a ?\M-f ?\M-b ?\C- ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f > ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-w ?\C-c ?\C-n ?\C-a ?\M-f ?\M-b ?\C-y ? ?- ? > ?\C-e ?\M-b ?\M-f ?\"] 0 "%d")) > #+END_SRC > > > Using that code, from these headlines: > > *** Sanz Aparicio et al. (2019) "5 Los Motivos Adquiridos, Menéndez Balaña" > (pp. 95-118) > INTRODUCCIÓN > > I get modified the second headline: > > *** Sanz Aparicio et al. (2019) "5 Los Motivos Adquiridos, Menéndez Balaña" > (pp. 95-118) > Sanz Aparicio et al. (2019) "5 Los Motivos Adquiridos - INTRODUCCIÓN" > > > Are macros near to elisp programming or they are two different worlds? > > Ypo > > Hi Ypo, > > here's a suggestion. If you run this > > (setq last-kbd-macro [?\C-a ?\M-f ?\M-b ?\C- ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f > ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-w ?\C-c ?\C-n ?\C-a ?\M-f ?\M-b > ?\C-y ? ?- ? ?\C-e ?\M-b ?\M-f ?\"]) > > and then type `C-x C-k C-e' (`kmacro-edit-macro-repeat') you will get > a temporary buffer that contains this: > > C-a ;; move-beginning-of-line > M-f ;; forward-word > M-b ;; backward-word > C-SPC ;; set-mark-command > 9*M-f ;; forward-word > M-w ;; kill-ring-save > C-c C-n > C-a ;; move-beginning-of-line > M-f ;; forward-word > M-b ;; backward-word > C-y ;; yank > SPC ;; self-insert-command > - ;; self-insert-command > SPC ;; self-insert-command > C-e ;; move-end-of-line > M-b ;; backward-word > M-f ;; forward-word > " ;; self-insert-command > > If you convert that by hand - suggestion: use keyboard macros for > that! =) - to a defun like this one, > > (defun SanzTema5 () > (interactive) > (move-beginning-of-line) ; C-a > (forward-word) ; M-f > (backward-word); M-b > (set-mark-command) ; C-SPC > (dotimes 9 (forward-word)) ; 9*M-f > ;; ^ or: (forward-word 9) > (kill-ring-save) ; M-w > ;; What here? I don' have a: ; C-c C-n > (move-beginning-of-line) ; C-a > (forward-word) ; M-f > (backward-word); M-b > (yank) ; C-y > (insert " - ") ; SPC - SPC > (move-end-of-line) ; C-e > (backward-word); M-b > (forward-word) ; M-f > (insert "\"") ; " > ) > > Then you will get a defun that does something that is clearly useful > to you... you can start by creating and debugging a handful of defuns > like that one and then learn what most people consider as "real > Elisp"... > > Cheers =), > Eduardo Ochs > http://angg.twu.net/#eev
Re: From macros to elisp programming?
Obrigado, Eduardo! I didn't know that command: "setq last-kbd-macro" and probably it will be useful with elmacro too. (outline-next-visible-heading) ;; C-c C-n I save your instructions to my notes to use them :-) Saúde! El 07/12/2021 a las 3:11, Eduardo Ochs escribió: On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 at 10:43, Ypo wrote: Hi I am able to make macros, but I think I am far away from Lisp programming. Is there a path to go from macros to elisp programming? For example, the last macro I've made is for transforming the name of some headlines, adding in front of them a part from the previous headline. This is the elisp code of the macro: #+BEGIN_SRC (fset 'SanzTema5 (kmacro-lambda-form [?\C-a ?\M-f ?\M-b ?\C- ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-w ?\C-c ?\C-n ?\C-a ?\M-f ?\M-b ?\C-y ? ?- ? ?\C-e ?\M-b ?\M-f ?\"] 0 "%d")) #+END_SRC Using that code, from these headlines: *** Sanz Aparicio et al. (2019) "5 Los Motivos Adquiridos, Menéndez Balaña" (pp. 95-118) INTRODUCCIÓN I get modified the second headline: *** Sanz Aparicio et al. (2019) "5 Los Motivos Adquiridos, Menéndez Balaña" (pp. 95-118) Sanz Aparicio et al. (2019) "5 Los Motivos Adquiridos - INTRODUCCIÓN" Are macros near to elisp programming or they are two different worlds? Ypo Hi Ypo, here's a suggestion. If you run this (setq last-kbd-macro [?\C-a ?\M-f ?\M-b ?\C- ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-w ?\C-c ?\C-n ?\C-a ?\M-f ?\M-b ?\C-y ? ?- ? ?\C-e ?\M-b ?\M-f ?\"]) and then type `C-x C-k C-e' (`kmacro-edit-macro-repeat') you will get a temporary buffer that contains this: C-a ;; move-beginning-of-line M-f ;; forward-word M-b ;; backward-word C-SPC ;; set-mark-command 9*M-f ;; forward-word M-w ;; kill-ring-save C-c C-n C-a ;; move-beginning-of-line M-f ;; forward-word M-b ;; backward-word C-y ;; yank SPC ;; self-insert-command - ;; self-insert-command SPC ;; self-insert-command C-e ;; move-end-of-line M-b ;; backward-word M-f ;; forward-word " ;; self-insert-command If you convert that by hand - suggestion: use keyboard macros for that! =) - to a defun like this one, (defun SanzTema5 () (interactive) (move-beginning-of-line) ; C-a (forward-word) ; M-f (backward-word); M-b (set-mark-command) ; C-SPC (dotimes 9 (forward-word)) ; 9*M-f ;; ^ or: (forward-word 9) (kill-ring-save) ; M-w ;; What here? I don' have a: ; C-c C-n (move-beginning-of-line) ; C-a (forward-word) ; M-f (backward-word); M-b (yank) ; C-y (insert " - ") ; SPC - SPC (move-end-of-line) ; C-e (backward-word); M-b (forward-word) ; M-f (insert "\"") ; " ) Then you will get a defun that does something that is clearly useful to you... you can start by creating and debugging a handful of defuns like that one and then learn what most people consider as "real Elisp"... Cheers =), Eduardo Ochs http://angg.twu.net/#eev
Re: From macros to elisp programming?
On 2021-12-06, at 23:10, Tim Cross wrote: > It is difficult to recommend resources as a lot depends on your own > experience, what level you want to dive into and what you want to be > able to do. There is a big difference in knowing enough emacs lisp to > tweak your Emacs configuration and knowing enough emacs lisp to write > the next great package. The good news is that there are some great free > resources out there, so the main investment will be in time. +1 > If you have not yet read it, a good starting point is Mastering Emacs by > Mickey Petersen https://www.masteringemacs.org/ Agreed, though AFAIR it doesn't talk about coding in Elisp, only /using/ Emacs. > There is also an Introduction to Emacs Lisp, which is part of the GNU > Emacs distribution. I second that. It is a great book for beginners. > For getting to understand lisp programming at a much deeper level, there > are some excellent resources out there, many of which are free. The > trick is to not limit yourself to searching just for Emacs lisp. Emacs > lisp is a dialect of lisp - a domain specific language for an editor if > you like. Most of the concepts associated with lisp are applicable to > emacs lisp. almost any resource teaching lisp will teach you things > applicable to emacs lisp. Therefore, if you really want to learn how to > program in emacs lisp, search for resources on learning to program in > lisp. On the other hand, Elisp has quite a few quirks which make it stand out. These mare mainly related to the fact that Emacs is a text editor and not an interpreter for a general-purpose language. Things like point, windows, buffers, using buffers to process text (as opposed to strings in 99% langauges), buffer-local variables, advice system... > There is a somewhat famous book called 'The Structure and Interpretation > of Computer Programs" (SCIP), which is based on a course in computer > science taught at MIT. It is an excellent book. Even better, videos from > the course are also available on-line. While the focus is on > programming, it uses a lisp dialect to demonstrate the core principals, > which it makes very clear. A must watch for anyone really keen to > understand programming. +100. Those videos are great (the book is more in-depth, though). > Another great book about lisp which is also freely available is Paul > Graham's 'On Lisp', which I think gives a pretty good overview of the > power and flexibility of lisp and functional programming. Yes, though it it way more advanced - I probably wouldn't give it to a beginner. > A book which I really like and which I think really shows off the power > of lisp macros is Doug Hoyte's "Let over Lambda". Not only does this book > show the wonderful power and possibilities of macros, it also shows some > of the dangers and pitfalls. However, it is pretty hard core computer > science focused and can take some effort to really digest. Also, one can go a really long way /without/ macros. I'd argue that the main reason a beginning Elisper should learn the basics of (Elisp) macros is to be able to (roughly) understand what is going on when s/he sees them in other people's code. > If you really want to learn emacs lisp, there is really only one route > you can take - sit down and start using it to write simple programs to > solve some basic problems. Maybe you would like to automate some of what > you do or maybe you would like to modify how Emacs does something or > maybe you want to create a new command to do something. Open a new > window and start trying to implement your idea. You will run into road > blocks and you will often be frustrated, but eventually the penny will > drop. The other big advantage is that when you run into problems, you > will have concrete issues which you can take to a forum for help. It is > much easier for people to help with something concrete than something > more vague or conceptual. The only real way to learn is to do - if you > want to learn emacs lisp, you need to use emacs lisp to solve > problems. Again, very solid advice. Though for some people at least some guidance may be valuable. One example would be "Writing GNU Emacs Extensions" by Bob Glickstein. It is fairly old, but from what I heard most of it should be still relevant. Word of caution: I'm not sure I'd agree with Glickstein's selection of topics. For example, he writes about writing major modes or autoloading. The former is IMO not very useful unless you are doing something /extremely/ atypical. The latter is very advanced (and not really essential for 99.99% or even 100% use-cases), and by the time the learner /needs/ it, s/he will be advanced enough to learn it from the GNU Emacs Lisp Reference Manual anyway. Speaking of which, it also an excellent resource not to be overlooked - and it comes with Emacs itself. Another thing I'd like to add here is that asking on this list is usually a good idea. I learned a lot (and I'm still learning a lot) just by
Re: From macros to elisp programming?
On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 at 10:43, Ypo wrote: > > Hi > > I am able to make macros, but I think I am far away from Lisp programming. > > Is there a path to go from macros to elisp programming? For example, the last > macro I've made is for transforming the name of some headlines, adding in > front of them a part from the previous headline. This is the elisp code of > the macro: > > #+BEGIN_SRC > (fset 'SanzTema5 >(kmacro-lambda-form [?\C-a ?\M-f ?\M-b ?\C- ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f > ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-w ?\C-c ?\C-n ?\C-a ?\M-f ?\M-b ?\C-y ? ?- ? > ?\C-e ?\M-b ?\M-f ?\"] 0 "%d")) > #+END_SRC > > > Using that code, from these headlines: > > *** Sanz Aparicio et al. (2019) "5 Los Motivos Adquiridos, Menéndez Balaña" > (pp. 95-118) > INTRODUCCIÓN > > I get modified the second headline: > > *** Sanz Aparicio et al. (2019) "5 Los Motivos Adquiridos, Menéndez Balaña" > (pp. 95-118) > Sanz Aparicio et al. (2019) "5 Los Motivos Adquiridos - INTRODUCCIÓN" > > > Are macros near to elisp programming or they are two different worlds? > > Ypo Hi Ypo, here's a suggestion. If you run this (setq last-kbd-macro [?\C-a ?\M-f ?\M-b ?\C- ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-w ?\C-c ?\C-n ?\C-a ?\M-f ?\M-b ?\C-y ? ?- ? ?\C-e ?\M-b ?\M-f ?\"]) and then type `C-x C-k C-e' (`kmacro-edit-macro-repeat') you will get a temporary buffer that contains this: C-a ;; move-beginning-of-line M-f ;; forward-word M-b ;; backward-word C-SPC ;; set-mark-command 9*M-f ;; forward-word M-w ;; kill-ring-save C-c C-n C-a ;; move-beginning-of-line M-f ;; forward-word M-b ;; backward-word C-y ;; yank SPC ;; self-insert-command - ;; self-insert-command SPC ;; self-insert-command C-e ;; move-end-of-line M-b ;; backward-word M-f ;; forward-word " ;; self-insert-command If you convert that by hand - suggestion: use keyboard macros for that! =) - to a defun like this one, (defun SanzTema5 () (interactive) (move-beginning-of-line) ; C-a (forward-word) ; M-f (backward-word); M-b (set-mark-command) ; C-SPC (dotimes 9 (forward-word)) ; 9*M-f ;; ^ or: (forward-word 9) (kill-ring-save) ; M-w ;; What here? I don' have a: ; C-c C-n (move-beginning-of-line) ; C-a (forward-word) ; M-f (backward-word); M-b (yank) ; C-y (insert " - ") ; SPC - SPC (move-end-of-line) ; C-e (backward-word); M-b (forward-word) ; M-f (insert "\"") ; " ) Then you will get a defun that does something that is clearly useful to you... you can start by creating and debugging a handful of defuns like that one and then learn what most people consider as "real Elisp"... Cheers =), Eduardo Ochs http://angg.twu.net/#eev
Re: From macros to elisp programming?
Ypo writes: > Hi > > I am able to make macros, but I think I am far away from Lisp programming. > > Is there a path to go from macros to elisp programming? For example, the last > macro I've made is for transforming the name of some > headlines, adding in front of them a part from the previous headline. This is > the elisp code of the macro: > > #+BEGIN_SRC > (fset 'SanzTema5 >(kmacro-lambda-form [?\C-a ?\M-f ?\M-b ?\C- ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f > ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-w ?\C-c ?\C-n ?\C-a ?\M-f ?\M-b ?\C-y > ? ?- ? ?\C-e ?\M-b ?\M-f ?\"] 0 "%d")) > #+END_SRC > > Using that code, from these headlines: > > *** Sanz Aparicio et al. (2019) "5 Los Motivos Adquiridos, Menéndez Balaña" > (pp. 95-118) > INTRODUCCIÓN > > I get modified the second headline: > > *** Sanz Aparicio et al. (2019) "5 Los Motivos Adquiridos, Menéndez Balaña" > (pp. 95-118) > Sanz Aparicio et al. (2019) "5 Los Motivos Adquiridos - INTRODUCCIÓN" > > Are macros near to elisp programming or they are two different worlds? > Unfortunately, the term 'macro' is somewhat overloaded and can mean different things depending on the language. For example, C has pre-processor 'macros' which are essentially simple string replacement mechanisms and very different from macros as used in lisp languages like elisp, common lisp or clojure. In a similar vain, what you are referring to above is a keyboard macro, which is not an elisp macro. A keyboard macro is essentially a simple 'replay' facility where you can capture a set of keyboard input actions, give them a name and then repeat those actions by running the macro with that name again. This is very different from an elisp macro. An elisp macro (or a common lisp macro, or a clojure macro etc) is a facility which allows you to manipulate source code and can be very useful in defining new low level language constructs which are largely indistinguishable from the built-in constructs of the language. For example, if elisp did not have a 'when' statement, you could define it as a macro and it would operate at the same level as other built in functions. For this reason, macros are often used a lot when defining a 'domain specific language' (DSL-) a type of language dialect which has operators specific to a specialised domain. While others would likely disagree, I would not consider using keyboard macros as programming in emacs lisp. Keyboard macros are an end user facility which can be used to automate repetitive tasks and which can be used by anyone using Emacs - you don't need to know any emacs lisp to create and use a keyboard macro. Macros as used in lisp languages are a wonderful, extremely powerful facility that allow the programmer to do things which are near impossible in other languages. However, they should be used very judiciously. There is an old adage which states that if you can do it with a function, then use a function, not a macro. A common error made by those new to macros is that they are so amazed at their power, they now think it is the solution to all problems. It is difficult to recommend resources as a lot depends on your own experience, what level you want to dive into and what you want to be able to do. There is a big difference in knowing enough emacs lisp to tweak your Emacs configuration and knowing enough emacs lisp to write the next great package. The good news is that there are some great free resources out there, so the main investment will be in time. If you have not yet read it, a good starting point is Mastering Emacs by Mickey Petersen https://www.masteringemacs.org/ There is also an Introduction to Emacs Lisp, which is part of the GNU Emacs distribution. For getting to understand lisp programming at a much deeper level, there are some excellent resources out there, many of which are free. The trick is to not limit yourself to searching just for Emacs lisp. Emacs lisp is a dialect of lisp - a domain specific language for an editor if you like. Most of the concepts associated with lisp are applicable to emacs lisp. almost any resource teaching lisp will teach you things applicable to emacs lisp. Therefore, if you really want to learn how to program in emacs lisp, search for resources on learning to program in lisp. There is a somewhat famous book called 'The Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" (SCIP), which is based on a course in computer science taught at MIT. It is an excellent book. Even better, videos from the course are also available on-line. While the focus is on programming, it uses a lisp dialect to demonstrate the core principals, which it makes very clear. A must watch for anyone really keen to understand programming. Another great book about lisp which is also freely available is Paul Graham's 'On Lisp', which I think gives a pretty good overview of the power
Re: From macros to elisp programming?
Lovable!! Thanks! Ypo El 06/12/2021 a las 19:08, András Simonyi escribió: Dear All, On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 at 14:43, Ypo wrote: I am able to make macros, but I think I am far away from Lisp programming. [...] Is there a path to go from macros to elisp programming? there is a package called 'elmacro' (https://github.com/Silex/elmacro) which you can look into. Apparently, it can convert (most?) macros into interactive Elisp functions, and might even provide a good starting point for learning Elisp. best wishes, András
Re: From macros to elisp programming?
Dear All, On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 at 14:43, Ypo wrote: > I am able to make macros, but I think I am far away from Lisp programming. > [...] > Is there a path to go from macros to elisp programming? there is a package called 'elmacro' (https://github.com/Silex/elmacro) which you can look into. Apparently, it can convert (most?) macros into interactive Elisp functions, and might even provide a good starting point for learning Elisp. best wishes, András
From macros to elisp programming?
Hi I am able to make macros, but I think I am far away from Lisp programming. Is there a path to go from macros to elisp programming? For example, the last macro I've made is for transforming the name of some headlines, adding in front of them a part from the previous headline. This is the elisp code of the macro: #+BEGIN_SRC (fset 'SanzTema5 (kmacro-lambda-form [?\C-a ?\M-f ?\M-b ?\C- ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-f ?\M-w ?\C-c ?\C-n ?\C-a ?\M-f ?\M-b ?\C-y ? ?- ? ?\C-e ?\M-b ?\M-f ?\"] 0 "%d")) #+END_SRC Using that code, from these headlines: *** Sanz Aparicio et al. (2019) "5 Los Motivos Adquiridos, Menéndez Balaña" (pp. 95-118) INTRODUCCIÓN I get modified the second headline: *** Sanz Aparicio et al. (2019) "5 Los Motivos Adquiridos, Menéndez Balaña" (pp. 95-118) Sanz Aparicio et al. (2019) "5 Los Motivos Adquiridos - INTRODUCCIÓN" Are macros near to elisp programming or they are two different worlds? Ypo
