Re: [O] How to safely update from ver. 8.2.10 to 8.3.x

[Cook, Malcolm]

> > I would not trust the result from failing to drop the -Q since the -Q is 
> > what
 > prevents your init file from loading, which we are explicitly trying to avoid
 > for the sake of compiling org in a fresh environment.
 > >
 > According to [[info:emacs#Initial Options]], --batch implies -q.
 > About -q and -Q, we have:
 > 
 > ‘-q’
 > ‘--no-init-file’
 >  Do not load any initialization file (*note Init File::).  When
 >  Emacs is invoked with this option, the Customize facility does not
 >  allow options to be saved (*note Easy Customization::).  This
 >  option does not disable loading ‘site-start.el’.
 > [...]
 > ‘-Q’
 > ‘--quick’
 >  Start emacs with minimum customizations.  This is similar to using
 >  ‘-q’, ‘--no-site-file’, ‘--no-site-lisp’, and ‘--no-splash’
 >  together.  This also stops Emacs from processing X resources by
 >  setting ‘inhibit-x-resources’ to ‘t’ (*note Resources::).


Aha - thanks for the rundown. 


 > 
 > So --batch implies -q, which is enough to bypass init.el.  -Q is
 > stronger than -q: it adds ‘--no-site-file’, ‘--no-site-lisp’, and
 > ‘--no-splash’ and inibits X resources.  But AFAIK, only my init.el
 > loads Org, and not site-start.el, which is empty here, or any Lisp
 > file in a site-lisp directory.  I searched every file in
 > /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp for "org" and I didn't find any line that
 > loads Org.
 > 
 > I am an Emacs beginner though, so I may be wrong.

I'm now figuring you're right.

> 
 > --

Re: [O] How to safely update from ver. 8.2.10 to 8.3.x

[Jorge]

On 22 August 2016 at 14:19, Cook, Malcolm  wrote:
>> In the last command I forgot to drop the -Q.  But I guess it works either 
>> way.
>
> I would not trust the result from failing to drop the -Q since the -Q is what 
> prevents your init file from loading, which we are explicitly trying to avoid 
> for the sake of compiling org in a fresh environment.
>
According to [[info:emacs#Initial Options]], --batch implies -q.
About -q and -Q, we have:

‘-q’
‘--no-init-file’
 Do not load any initialization file (*note Init File::).  When
 Emacs is invoked with this option, the Customize facility does not
 allow options to be saved (*note Easy Customization::).  This
 option does not disable loading ‘site-start.el’.
[...]
‘-Q’
‘--quick’
 Start emacs with minimum customizations.  This is similar to using
 ‘-q’, ‘--no-site-file’, ‘--no-site-lisp’, and ‘--no-splash’
 together.  This also stops Emacs from processing X resources by
 setting ‘inhibit-x-resources’ to ‘t’ (*note Resources::).

So --batch implies -q, which is enough to bypass init.el.  -Q is
stronger than -q: it adds ‘--no-site-file’, ‘--no-site-lisp’, and
‘--no-splash’ and inibits X resources.  But AFAIK, only my init.el
loads Org, and not site-start.el, which is empty here, or any Lisp
file in a site-lisp directory.  I searched every file in
/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp for "org" and I didn't find any line that
loads Org.

I am an Emacs beginner though, so I may be wrong.

-- 
- I am Brazilian.  I apologize for possibly bad English and I welcome
corrections.
- Please adopt free formats like PDF, ODF, LaTeX, Vorbis, Opus, WebM and 7z.
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Re: [O] How to safely update from ver. 8.2.10 to 8.3.x

[Cook, Malcolm]

> In the last command I forgot to drop the -Q.  But I guess it works either way.

I would not trust the result from failing to drop the -Q since the -Q is what 
prevents your init file from loading, which we are explicitly trying to avoid 
for the sake of compiling org in a fresh environment.

~Malcolm

 > 
 > On 22 August 2016 at 12:25, Jorge  wrote:
 > > On 15 August 2016 at 14:29, Cook, Malcolm  wrote:
 > >>   emacs -Q -batch -eval "(progn (require 'package) (add-to-list
 > 'package-archives '(\"org\" . \"http://orgmode.org/elpa/\;))  (package-
 > initialize) (package-refresh-contents) (package-install 'org-plus-contrib))"
 > > Here I plan to drop the "-Q" (because --batch already implies -q,
 > > which I think is enough).  So my command would be
 > > emacs --batch --eval "(progn (require 'package) (add-to-list
 > > 'package-archives '(\"org\" . \"http://orgmode.org/elpa/\;))
 > > (package-initialize) (package-refresh-contents) (package-install
 > > 'org-plus-contrib))"
 > >
 > >> Note: I use org-plus-contrib from melpa instead of org.  If you want just
 > org, you could simply:
 > >>
 > >>   emacs -Q -batch -eval "(progn (require 'package) 
 > >> (package-initialize)
 > (package-refresh-contents) (package-install 'org-plus-contrib))"
 > >
 > > Would not it be
 > > emacs -Q --batch --eval "(progn (require 'package)
 > > (package-initialize) (package-refresh-contents) (package-install
 > > 'org))"
 > > ?
 > >
 > >
 > > --
 > > - I am Brazilian.  I apologize for possibly bad English and I welcome
 > > corrections.
 > > - Please adopt free formats like PDF, ODF, LaTeX, Vorbis, Opus, WebM
 > and 7z.
 > > - Free software for Android: https://f-droid.org/
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > --
 > - I am Brazilian.  I apologize for possibly bad English and I welcome
 > corrections.
 > - Please adopt free formats like PDF, ODF, LaTeX, Vorbis, Opus, WebM and
 > 7z.
 > - Free software for Android: https://f-droid.org/

Re: [O] How to safely update from ver. 8.2.10 to 8.3.x

[Jorge]

In the last command I forgot to drop the -Q.  But I guess it works either way.

On 22 August 2016 at 12:25, Jorge  wrote:
> On 15 August 2016 at 14:29, Cook, Malcolm  wrote:
>>   emacs -Q -batch -eval "(progn (require 'package) (add-to-list 
>> 'package-archives '(\"org\" . \"http://orgmode.org/elpa/\;))  
>> (package-initialize) (package-refresh-contents) (package-install 
>> 'org-plus-contrib))"
> Here I plan to drop the "-Q" (because --batch already implies -q,
> which I think is enough).  So my command would be
> emacs --batch --eval "(progn (require 'package) (add-to-list
> 'package-archives '(\"org\" . \"http://orgmode.org/elpa/\;))
> (package-initialize) (package-refresh-contents) (package-install
> 'org-plus-contrib))"
>
>> Note: I use org-plus-contrib from melpa instead of org.  If you want just 
>> org, you could simply:
>>
>>   emacs -Q -batch -eval "(progn (require 'package) 
>> (package-initialize) (package-refresh-contents) (package-install 
>> 'org-plus-contrib))"
>
> Would not it be
> emacs -Q --batch --eval "(progn (require 'package)
> (package-initialize) (package-refresh-contents) (package-install
> 'org))"
> ?
>
>
> --
> - I am Brazilian.  I apologize for possibly bad English and I welcome
> corrections.
> - Please adopt free formats like PDF, ODF, LaTeX, Vorbis, Opus, WebM and 7z.
> - Free software for Android: https://f-droid.org/



-- 
- I am Brazilian.  I apologize for possibly bad English and I welcome
corrections.
- Please adopt free formats like PDF, ODF, LaTeX, Vorbis, Opus, WebM and 7z.
- Free software for Android: https://f-droid.org/

Re: [O] How to safely update from ver. 8.2.10 to 8.3.x

[Jorge]

On 15 August 2016 at 14:29, Cook, Malcolm  wrote:
>   emacs -Q -batch -eval "(progn (require 'package) (add-to-list 
> 'package-archives '(\"org\" . \"http://orgmode.org/elpa/\;))  
> (package-initialize) (package-refresh-contents) (package-install 
> 'org-plus-contrib))"
Here I plan to drop the "-Q" (because --batch already implies -q,
which I think is enough).  So my command would be
emacs --batch --eval "(progn (require 'package) (add-to-list
'package-archives '(\"org\" . \"http://orgmode.org/elpa/\;))
(package-initialize) (package-refresh-contents) (package-install
'org-plus-contrib))"

> Note: I use org-plus-contrib from melpa instead of org.  If you want just 
> org, you could simply:
>
>   emacs -Q -batch -eval "(progn (require 'package) 
> (package-initialize) (package-refresh-contents) (package-install 
> 'org-plus-contrib))"

Would not it be
emacs -Q --batch --eval "(progn (require 'package)
(package-initialize) (package-refresh-contents) (package-install
'org))"
?


-- 
- I am Brazilian.  I apologize for possibly bad English and I welcome
corrections.
- Please adopt free formats like PDF, ODF, LaTeX, Vorbis, Opus, WebM and 7z.
- Free software for Android: https://f-droid.org/

Re: [O] How to safely update from ver. 8.2.10 to 8.3.x

[Maria Shinoto]

Thanks again, this was really helpful, and I understand the logic.

To explain what worked:

- My Emacs was simply the downloaded version of "EmacsForOSX", which 
resides in the application folder.


- The path to the emacs file that opens from the Terminal turned out to be
 /Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/MacOS/Emacs

- So the Terminal commands was

 /Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/MacOS/Emacs -Q

- After checking that only the 2 regular buffers were active and orgmode 
not loaded, I installed the package with the package manager.




It worked well, my org-mode is now the newest version, and updating this 
way was really easy.



May I suggest that the procedure that Malcolm explained so well will be 
part of the explanation/wiki/manuals?


Beginners like me can become confused -- software bug, stupid user bug, 
what else...



Cheers to the list,
Maria




Am 16.08.16 um 13:19 schrieb Cook, Malcolm:

Answers are out of order:

(2) - oops , you are correct.  What you want is:


emacs -Q -batch -eval "(progn (require 'package)
(package-initialize) (package-refresh-contents) (package-install
'org))"



(1) - you have 2 copies of emacs installed on your mac probably one
in /usr/bin/emacs .  How did you install the gui version?  If
Homebrew, then the other is in /usr/local/bin/emacs.  If EmacsForOSX
then, if I remember correctly, it is in /Applications/Emacs.app which
is really just a folder and which contains in it Emacs the actual
emacs program to run.  In any case, just replace emacs in the above
command line with the full path to the emacs you are using, like
this:


/usr/local/bin/emacs -Q -batch -eval "(progn (require 'package)
(package-initialize) (package-refresh-contents) (package-install
'org))"


or this


/Applications/Emacs.app/emacs -Q -batch -eval "(progn (require
'package) (package-initialize) (package-refresh-contents)
(package-install 'org))"



(3)  yes - start a fresh emacs and don't load your init.el file,
using the -Q option, like this


/Applications/Emacs.app/emacs -Q


And then don't load any .org files!!! Go directly to the package
manager and refresh your org installation like any other package.

~ malcolm_c...@stowers.org

 From: Maria Shinoto
<ma...@shinoto.de> Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 6:06 PM To: Cook,
Malcolm Subject: Re: [O] How to safely update from ver. 8.2.10 to
8.3.x

Hi,

so, it was good that I asked, thanks for your advice.

I got the idea, but there are two questions left. I prefer simple
org since I am a beginner and want to start with the standards.


emacs -Q -batch -eval "(progn (require 'package) (add-to-list
'package-archives '(\"org\" . \"http://orgmode.org/elpa/\;))
(package-initialize) (package-refresh-contents) (package-install
'org-plus-contrib))"



Note: I use org-plus-contrib from melpa instead of org.  If you
want just org, you could simply:

emacs -Q -batch -eval "(progn (require 'package)
(package-initialize) (package-refresh-contents) (package-install
'org-plus-contrib))"


(1) When I check my emacs version in the Terminal (running Mac OS X
10.11), I get version "GNU Emacs 22.1.1", while asking from the GUI
shows version 24.5 (9.0). I do not understand why this can happen,
how these are separated and how they influence each other.
Furthermore, if they are separate, how should an installation from
the Terminal influence the situation in the GUI?



(2) Your second script is different, but it still deals with
"org-plus-contrib". Could you verify the script so that I can be
sure that I install the right org-mode version?


(3) Is there a way to safely install the org-mode package from the
GUI package manager? This would be easiest, since I intend to go on
with the GUI emacs. In other words, I am looking for a way to start
the GUI without org-mode loaded (similar to "emacs -Q" in the
Terminal).


Thanks again, Maria

Re: [O] How to safely update from ver. 8.2.10 to 8.3.x

[Cook, Malcolm]

> this weekend I got through lots of troubles, because I updated my
 > orgmode version with "manage emacs packages" menu command and
 > somehow
 > got mixed preferences.
 > 
 > Now, after a clean install, I have org mode 8.2.10 and would like to
 > update to version 8.3.x (20160808) which is shown under the menu
 > command
 > "manage emacs packages".
 > 
 > How can I do this safely, without creating a mess again?

Here's what I do, at the shell:

  emacs -Q -batch -eval "(progn (require 'package) (add-to-list 
'package-archives '(\"org\" . \"http://orgmode.org/elpa/\;))  
(package-initialize) (package-refresh-contents) (package-install 
'org-plus-contrib))"

This assures that org is not already loaded when org is compiled, which I've 
learned is the source of creating a mess.

Note: I use org-plus-contrib from melpa instead of org.  If you want just org, 
you could simply:

  emacs -Q -batch -eval "(progn (require 'package) (package-initialize) 
(package-refresh-contents) (package-install 'org-plus-contrib))"

HTH,

Malcolm

 > 
 > Thanks for all advice,
 > Maria