Re: Sad tweet
I screen capped this from a non-free tool I've been using because some of us our lazy when we must be stubborn, and anyway, hth: https://bru.st/i/Discord_RVagphlqok.png On Sun, May 23, 2021 at 4:29 PM Ypo wrote: > > I've read this: > > "Contributing to Emacs is so frustrating. It's not worth it for minor things > and if I cannot get some experience and confidence with minor things, then I > likely won't ever make major contributions." > https://twitter.com/magit_emacs/status/1396536686570610697?s=19 -- Corwin 612-217-1742 612-695-4276 (signal) cor...@bru.st
Re: Sad tweet
Timothy writes: > I have some experience with Transient, and I’m willing to give this a go. > However, I am fairly busy for the immediate future, and so I’d say > the ETA is on the order of months. Sure! Take your time -- and thanks for undertaking this.
Re: Sad tweet
Hi Bastien, > Anyone? I have some experience with Transient, and I’m willing to give this a go. However, I am fairly busy for the immediate future, and so I’d say the ETA is on the order of months. All the best, Timothy
Re: Sad tweet
Hi all, Kévin Le Gouguec writes: > FWIW, to bounce off Amin's reply: Jonas, the patience you demonstrated > in order to get transient in Emacs core was nothing short of saintly, > and I for one am grateful for your perseverance. Seconded. Also, I wish someone could volunteer to start migrating to transient for Org's menus. Anyone? -- Bastien
Re: there are always ways to go - Re: Sad tweet
I am not an emacs contributor, but I think Jonas is saying, "I love emacs and I am the primary author of one of the two most important emacs packages. If contributing to emacs is frustrating even for me, think how many people will give up. We need to change our culture." I would be very careful about describing him as "attention-seeking." He is a very diligent and responsive package maintainer who works *constantly* to improve an important piece of emacs infrastructure. On Tue., May 25, 2021, 2:53 a.m. Jean Louis, wrote: > * Ypo [2021-05-25 06:09]: > > I think he is the creator of the magit package. > > OK, it's not Org related and is not a direct post... It is just > an attention seeking... Tweet. > > I am following emacs-devel mailing list, who wish to contribute > package to Emacs is very welcome to do so, and it is very > straightforward. > > Best way to start improvement is in my opinion with the package > creation. > > Those who wish to make changes in the core have to discuss it with > Emacs core developers, that is how it is, as newly introduced ideas > are not necessarily thought well for millions of users. > > -- > Jean > > Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: > https://www.fsf.org/campaigns > > Sign an open letter in support of Richard M. Stallman > https://stallmansupport.org/ > >
Re: there are always ways to go - Re: Sad tweet
* Ypo [2021-05-25 06:09]: > I think he is the creator of the magit package. OK, it's not Org related and is not a direct post... It is just an attention seeking... Tweet. I am following emacs-devel mailing list, who wish to contribute package to Emacs is very welcome to do so, and it is very straightforward. Best way to start improvement is in my opinion with the package creation. Those who wish to make changes in the core have to discuss it with Emacs core developers, that is how it is, as newly introduced ideas are not necessarily thought well for millions of users. -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns Sign an open letter in support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/
Re: (✿╹◡╹) there are always ways to go - Re: Sad tweet
I think he is the creator of the magit package. May 24, 2021 23:02:56 Jean Louis : > * Ypo [2021-05-24 00:30]: >> I've read this: >> >> "Contributing to Emacs is so frustrating. It's not worth it for minor things >> and if I cannot get some experience and confidence with minor things, then I >> likely won't ever make major contributions." >> https://twitter.com/magit_emacs/status/1396536686570610697?s=19 > > Alright, but no need for desperation. There is a way forward. > > Make your own package, see (info "(elisp) Packaging") > > As when you make your own package you are extending Emacs. > > Then apply the package to be included in GNU ELPA: > https://elpa.gnu.org on emacs-de...@gnu.org mailing list. > > That way you are contributing to GNU Emacs. > > Your package can improve some functions and thus get kudos from other > users. > > Then it becomes so much easier to point out to your improvements and > propose them to mainstream Emacs or Org mode. > > -- > Jean > > Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: > https://www.fsf.org/campaigns > > Sign an open letter in support of Richard M. Stallman > https://stallmansupport.org/
(✿╹◡╹) there are always ways to go - Re: Sad tweet
* Ypo [2021-05-24 00:30]: > I've read this: > > "Contributing to Emacs is so frustrating. It's not worth it for minor things > and if I cannot get some experience and confidence with minor things, then I > likely won't ever make major contributions." > https://twitter.com/magit_emacs/status/1396536686570610697?s=19 Alright, but no need for desperation. There is a way forward. Make your own package, see (info "(elisp) Packaging") As when you make your own package you are extending Emacs. Then apply the package to be included in GNU ELPA: https://elpa.gnu.org on emacs-de...@gnu.org mailing list. That way you are contributing to GNU Emacs. Your package can improve some functions and thus get kudos from other users. Then it becomes so much easier to point out to your improvements and propose them to mainstream Emacs or Org mode. -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns Sign an open letter in support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/
Re: Sad tweet
(Took the liberty of CC'ing Jonas to make sure he can correct any mischaracterization, and to show our support, such as it is) band...@gnu.org writes: > Ypo writes: > >> I've read this: >> >> "Contributing to Emacs is so frustrating. It's not worth it for minor >> things and if I cannot get some experience and confidence with minor >> things, then I likely won't ever make major contributions." >> https://twitter.com/magit_emacs/status/1396536686570610697?s=19 > > Do you know if there is any more context around that? Did Jonas mention > any specific pain points around contributing to Emacs and/or concrete > things that he thinks could be improved? Last time I'd seen him post on > emacs-devel it seemed like things were going fairly smoothly with his > work on adding transient to Emacs(?). Given the timing, I'd hazard that this stems from bug#48592 (plus a few more past attempts that Jonas deems similarly fruitless, I assume). FWIW, to bounce off Amin's reply: Jonas, the patience you demonstrated in order to get transient in Emacs core was nothing short of saintly, and I for one am grateful for your perseverance. I understand how Emacs's development process can feel frustrating, especially in Jonas's position as maintainer of a popular package like Magit: 1. on the one hand, each and every attempt at contributing is met with varying degrees of skepticism and defiance, on the premise that you might e.g. break other people's code, disrupt other people's workflow… 2. on the other hand, upstream sometimes adds major features which impact your package, and you wake up to lots of disgruntled users expecting you to fix something you never saw coming; cf. :extend t, the tentative binding for C-x g… I don't necessarily view 1 nor 2 as inherently problematic: for 1, we're lucky to have maintainers looking out for breakage, although the line between "healthy conservatism" and "clinical sclerosis" is blurry; for 2, users of the development branch or the latest release should expect some measure of breakage in third-party packages. As a user, watching from the sidelines, the process "works": third-party additions slowly make their way upstream after some review and a generous coating of backward-compatibility/accessibility changes; on the flip side, bleeding-edge users warn third-party maintainers of upcoming changes which can then be amended before they make it into a release. Even so, as a third-party maintainer, I assume the combination of 1 and 2 feels like a "power imbalance": one party makes the other's life consistently harder. So, once more with feeling: thank you Jonas for your patience and your perserverance Disclaimer: I'm very much just a user, whose free time is mostly gobbled up catching up with the mailing lists. This reply is my interpretation of what I observe and may not be representative of anybody else's feelings on the subject.
Re: Sad tweet
Ypo writes: > I've read this: > > "Contributing to Emacs is so frustrating. It's not worth it for minor > things and if I cannot get some experience and confidence with minor > things, then I likely won't ever make major contributions." > https://twitter.com/magit_emacs/status/1396536686570610697?s=19 Do you know if there is any more context around that? Did Jonas mention any specific pain points around contributing to Emacs and/or concrete things that he thinks could be improved? Last time I'd seen him post on emacs-devel it seemed like things were going fairly smoothly with his work on adding transient to Emacs(?).
Sad tweet
I've read this: "Contributing to Emacs is so frustrating. It's not worth it for minor things and if I cannot get some experience and confidence with minor things, then I likely won't ever make major contributions." https://twitter.com/magit_emacs/status/1396536686570610697?s=19
