Re: desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users
On 1/15/09, Kevin Rodgers wrote: >> However, most prefix every line. For example, boxquote by default uses >> "|". >> >> While an experienced user can figure out rectangle commands or write a >> command to unpack the quote, new users and users who can't type much >> might skip using the code to avoid having to do that. And a very new >> user could actually stick the whole thing in .emacs and wonder why it >> doesn't work. It adds to the burden of fixing a problem or meeting a >> need in emacs without providing much benefit. Even a few keystrokes >> can do that. >> >> Perhaps quotes of code, in all packages like boxquote, could by >> default get fancy only on the lines precediing and following. >> >> What do you think? > > ,[ C-h f boxquote-unbox RET ] > | boxquote-unbox is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `boxquote.el'. > | (boxquote-unbox) > | > | Remove the boxquote that contains `point'. > | > | [back] > ` thanks for your suggestion. as i said, i am suggesting that the prefixed lines should never be prefixed in the first place. i don't think it adds enough to outweigh the extra keystrokes, rectangle, boxquote package, etc. i don't think all newcomers will know what to do. imho, above and below quoting is a preferable default convention. exceptions are few and can be optional.
[Orgmode] Re: desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users
Samuel Wales samolog...@gmail.com writes: Hi Samuel, While an experienced user can figure out rectangle commands or write a command to unpack the quote, new users and users who can't type much might skip using the code to avoid having to do that. And a very new user could actually stick the whole thing in .emacs and wonder why it doesn't work. It adds to the burden of fixing a problem or meeting a need in emacs without providing much benefit. Even a few keystrokes can do that. Perhaps quotes of code, in all packages like boxquote, could by default get fancy only on the lines precediing and following. What do you think? I think the best you can do is: Use boxquote for citations of key/function/variable/info docs, but for code use --8---cut here---start-8--- (defun foo (a b) (if ( a b) (* a b) (foo (foo (- b a) a) (- a b --8---cut here---end---8--- which is ,[ C-h k C-c M-m ] | C-c M-m runs the command message-mark-inserted-region, which is an interactive | compiled Lisp function in `message.el'. | | It is bound to C-c M-m, menu-bar Message Insert Region Marked. | | (message-mark-inserted-region beg end optional verbatim) | | Mark some region in the current article with enclosing tags. | See `message-mark-insert-begin' and `message-mark-insert-end'. | If verbatim, use slrn style verbatim marks (#v+ and #v-). ` That's highlighted by gnus (and some other readers), too, and you can simply copy paste it somewhere. It even tells you where to cut! ;-) Bye, Tassilo -- In an average living room there are 1,242 objects RMS could use to write an OS, including the room itself. ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users
I have noticed more people using boxquote and similar ways of setting off code. This makes it pretty and makes it stand out, both of which are good things. However, most prefix every line. For example, boxquote by default uses |. While an experienced user can figure out rectangle commands or write a command to unpack the quote, new users and users who can't type much might skip using the code to avoid having to do that. And a very new user could actually stick the whole thing in .emacs and wonder why it doesn't work. It adds to the burden of fixing a problem or meeting a need in emacs without providing much benefit. Even a few keystrokes can do that. Perhaps quotes of code, in all packages like boxquote, could by default get fancy only on the lines precediing and following. What do you think? -- For personal gain, myalgic encephalomyelitis denialists are knowingly causing massive suffering and 25-years-early death by grossly corrupting science. http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/What_Is_ME_What_Is_CFS.htm ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users
Hi Samuel, Samuel Wales samolog...@gmail.com writes: I have noticed more people using boxquote and similar ways of setting off code. This makes it pretty and makes it stand out, both of which are good things. However, most prefix every line. For example, boxquote by default uses |. While an experienced user can figure out rectangle commands or write a command to unpack the quote, new users and users who can't type much might skip using the code to avoid having to do that. And a very new user could actually stick the whole thing in .emacs and wonder why it doesn't work. It adds to the burden of fixing a problem or meeting a need in emacs without providing much benefit. Even a few keystrokes can do that. Perhaps quotes of code, in all packages like boxquote, could by default get fancy only on the lines precediing and following. What do you think? I hadn't thought of that. I started using boxquote because I was looking for an easier way to set off code. But if it's a nuisance or a problem to new users, then I'd be happy to modify the variable boxquote-side accordingly. Something like this perhaps? , (setq boxquote-side) ` What do others think? Is this readable enough? The only downside is that the cursor has to be on the beginning or ending line for commands such as boxquote-unbox or boxquote-yank or boxquote-narrow-to-boxquote to work. Best, Matt -- For personal gain, myalgic encephalomyelitis denialists are knowingly causing massive suffering and 25-years-early death by grossly corrupting science. http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/What_Is_ME_What_Is_CFS.htm ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users
On Thu, Jan 15 2009, Samuel Wales wrote: I have noticed more people using boxquote and similar ways of setting off code. This makes it pretty and makes it stand out, both of which are good things. [snip] What do you think? For anyone using gnus, I think a good alternative is to use message-mark-inserted region. Select a region and hit C-c M-m to get --8---cut here---start-8--- a region set apart in this manner. --8---cut here---end---8--- If you use a prefix on the command, C-u C-c M-m, you get slrn style verbatim marks, #v+ resulting in a region set a part in this manner. #v- Gnus gives nice highlighting in buffers containing sections like these. Even for mail readers that don't recognize them, I think at least the first is a good way of setting examples apart from the rest of the text. FWIW, I do like boxquote for quoting excerpts from Info pages. On an info page, put some text into the kill ring (I use kill-ring-save, which is M-w in my setup). Then call M-x boxquote-info. ,[ (info (message)Insertion) ] | `C-c M-m' | Mark some region in the current article with enclosing tags. See | `message-mark-insert-begin' and `message-mark-insert-end'. When | called with a prefix argument, use slrn style verbatim marks | (`#v+' and `#v-'). ` Just my $0.02. /au -- Austin Frank http://aufrank.net GPG Public Key (D7398C2F): http://aufrank.net/personal.asc pgpz2eS7mJokf.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users
Austin Frank austin.fr...@gmail.com writes: For anyone using gnus, I think a good alternative is to use message-mark-inserted region. Select a region and hit C-c M-m to get --8---cut here---start-8--- a region set apart in this manner. --8---cut here---end---8--- If you use a prefix on the command, C-u C-c M-m, you get slrn style verbatim marks, #v+ resulting in a region set a part in this manner. #v- These are great tips. Thanks! - Matt ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users
Samuel Wales wrote: I have noticed more people using boxquote and similar ways of setting off code. This makes it pretty and makes it stand out, both of which are good things. However, most prefix every line. For example, boxquote by default uses |. While an experienced user can figure out rectangle commands or write a command to unpack the quote, new users and users who can't type much might skip using the code to avoid having to do that. And a very new user could actually stick the whole thing in .emacs and wonder why it doesn't work. It adds to the burden of fixing a problem or meeting a need in emacs without providing much benefit. Even a few keystrokes can do that. Perhaps quotes of code, in all packages like boxquote, could by default get fancy only on the lines precediing and following. What do you think? ,[ C-h f boxquote-unbox RET ] | boxquote-unbox is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `boxquote.el'. | (boxquote-unbox) | | Remove the boxquote that contains `point'. | | [back] ` -- Kevin Rodgers Denver, Colorado, USA ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
