Re: [Emc-developers] nother Q for Peter C.W.

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 06 March 2020 21:50:15 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 03/06/2020 05:38 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > I have now put 2 ATD667LSG's on this block and have failed to get a
> > working index pulse into linuxcnc thru the encoder index pin of a
> > 7i76D.
>
> Note these sensors are open-collector, so need a pull-up
> resistor.
>
> > I've mounted it branded face against a block of alu, with a green 3
> > pin socket to allow unplugging it quickly, and I jbwelded a piece of
> > a nail to the side of the drawbar cap/bolt retainer at the top of
> > the spindle, but I can't get a false out of it at any orientation of
> > the nail or a tool waved past it.
>
> The sensor is on the end where the leads come out of the
> package, but at right angles to the
> leads.  That's the "branded face".  So, it sounds like you
> have them mounted backwards.


That cross patterned face is then a target to be machined into the mount 
to locate it more precisely?  I'm in the house but I now seem to recall 
that its the smooth side that's facing the gear in the lathe. Duh. It 
takes a 16mm projector lens and damned strong light to read the text 
printed on the "branded face". What the hell were they thinking?  

You're saying that the depressed cross in the 5% smaller face is not the 
sensed face? That the crossed pattern should be the face glued to the 
mount? In that event I also have them wired reversed polarity.  Which 
shouldn't hurt them as they are rated for up to 18 volts of reversed 
voltage. But by now, I'll have to do some chisel work to remove and 
likely wreck a 2nd one.  Sigh. This is what they mean when they say an 
education costs money... I only bought 6, paying about $2 more from 
digikey because all the $6 ebay ones were in the middle of the virus in 
china and 6 weeks away.

Thats also an excellent example of a piss-poor 14 page document they 
supply. That cross grooved face is much easier to identify. And mount to 
the smooth face, the jbweld oozing out can also cause lead shorts much 
easier.

> The gear tooth needs to wipe sideways across the sensor to
> be registered.  So, a gear
> tooth that is parallel to the leads will be sensed as it
> wipes across the face of the sensor.
Or in this case, 1/2" of a 2" nail, jbwelded to the outside of the 
drawbar retainer cap which will swipe across the smooth face as the 
spindle rotates.

Now I am pissed at me.


> Motion of the tooth will be at right angles to the leads.
>
> Check if the sensor +5 V is drawing any current (should be
> about 7 mA).  Are you sure you have not
> connected to the "test" output (pin 3)?  They don't say what
> this pin does, just tell you "tie to ground or
> leave open".

Which I've always clipped off...

> Jon

Thank you Jon.
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-developers] nother Q for Peter C.W.

[Jon Elson]

On 03/06/2020 05:38 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

I have now put 2 ATD667LSG's on this block and have failed to get a
working index pulse into linuxcnc thru the encoder index pin of a 7i76D.
Note these sensors are open-collector, so need a pull-up 
resistor.

I've mounted it branded face against a block of alu, with a green 3 pin
socket to allow unplugging it quickly, and I jbwelded a piece of a nail
to the side of the drawbar cap/bolt retainer at the top of the spindle,
but I can't get a false out of it at any orientation of the nail or a
tool waved past it.
The sensor is on the end where the leads come out of the 
package, but at right angles to the
leads.  That's the "branded face".  So, it sounds like you 
have them mounted backwards.
The gear tooth needs to wipe sideways across the sensor to 
be registered.  So, a gear
tooth that is parallel to the leads will be sensed as it 
wipes across the face of the sensor.

Motion of the tooth will be at right angles to the leads.

Check if the sensor +5 V is drawing any current (should be 
about 7 mA).  Are you sure you have not
connected to the "test" output (pin 3)?  They don't say what 
this pin does, just tell you "tie to ground or

leave open".

Jon


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Re: [Emc-developers] nother Q for Peter C.W.

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 06 March 2020 18:59:12 Peter C. Wallace wrote:

> On Fri, 6 Mar 2020, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2020 18:38:53 -0500
> > From: Gene Heskett 
> > Reply-To: EMC developers 
> > To: emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: [Emc-developers] nother Q for  Peter C.W.
> >
> > I have now put 2 ATD667LSG's on this block and have failed to get a
> > working index pulse into linuxcnc thru the encoder index pin of a
> > 7i76D.
> >
> > I've mounted it branded face against a block of alu, with a green 3
> > pin socket to allow unplugging it quickly, and I jbwelded a piece of
> > a nail to the side of the drawbar cap/bolt retainer at the top of
> > the spindle, but I can't get a false out of it at any orientation of
> > the nail or a tool waved past it.
> >
> > I've tried 2 new ones now, and they  appear to be stuck high/true
> > when the connector is made up, but goes false about 1 second after
> > unplugging it. Attempting to measure the current gets a worst case
> > of about 1.2 u-amps to ground, and that is not enough to pull it
> > down to false unless the dvm is replaced by a short to ground and
> > shows zilch current to the 5 volts.
> >
> > Trying to measure input current by inserting the dvm between its
> > output and the encoder-index in looks like a small capacitor
> > charging, but drops to zero current in nominally 1 second and stays
> > there.
> >
> > W4-W5-W6 have been tried both ways, but to the left s/b ttl and
> > everything except the ATS667 is ttl.  Its supposed to be able to
> > sink 25 ma up to 70 ma with a 12 volt supply, but its only getting
> > 4.92 volts.
> >
> > 3 of them have been working on 5 volts on the lathe for going on 3
> > years. Worked fine till the goop went to hell because it dissolves
> > in 0-W20 synthetic spindle oil.
> >
> > I'm bumfuzzled.  Obviously I'm doing something wrong but what?
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
>
> You can test the 7I76D index input in TTL mode by simply shorting it
> to ground. The encoder inputs have 2K pullups to 5V. You can read the
> index pin status in hal, for a 5I25/6I25 and a 7I76 (encoder 0) that
> pin would be:
>
> hm2_5i25.0.encoder.00.input-index
which is where I am checking it. A short to ground on that wire=false. 
The nominally 5 volts on the red wire is a solid 4.91 volts like it was 
solid copper all the way. Probably coming from the Dells 5 volts from a 
psu thats drifting low with age.

> I would check the ATS667 5V and GND connections, sounds like something
> is open

That was my first thought too.  But I can't find a finger to use as a 
divining rod.

> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-developers] nother Q for Peter C.W.

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 6 Mar 2020, Gene Heskett wrote:


Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2020 18:38:53 -0500
From: Gene Heskett 
Reply-To: EMC developers 
To: emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Emc-developers] nother Q for  Peter C.W.

I have now put 2 ATD667LSG's on this block and have failed to get a
working index pulse into linuxcnc thru the encoder index pin of a 7i76D.

I've mounted it branded face against a block of alu, with a green 3 pin
socket to allow unplugging it quickly, and I jbwelded a piece of a nail
to the side of the drawbar cap/bolt retainer at the top of the spindle,
but I can't get a false out of it at any orientation of the nail or a
tool waved past it.

I've tried 2 new ones now, and they  appear to be stuck high/true when
the connector is made up, but goes false about 1 second after unplugging
it. Attempting to measure the current gets a worst case of about 1.2
u-amps to ground, and that is not enough to pull it down to false unless
the dvm is replaced by a short to ground and shows zilch current to the
5 volts.

Trying to measure input current by inserting the dvm between its output
and the encoder-index in looks like a small capacitor charging, but
drops to zero current in nominally 1 second and stays there.

W4-W5-W6 have been tried both ways, but to the left s/b ttl and
everything except the ATS667 is ttl.  Its supposed to be able to sink 25
ma up to 70 ma with a 12 volt supply, but its only getting 4.92 volts.

3 of them have been working on 5 volts on the lathe for going on 3 years.
Worked fine till the goop went to hell because it dissolves in 0-W20
synthetic spindle oil.

I'm bumfuzzled.  Obviously I'm doing something wrong but what?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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You can test the 7I76D index input in TTL mode by simply shorting it to ground.
The encoder inputs have 2K pullups to 5V. You can read the index pin status in 
hal, for a 5I25/6I25 and a 7I76 (encoder 0) that pin would be:


hm2_5i25.0.encoder.00.input-index

I would check the ATS667 5V and GND connections, sounds like something is open

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics



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