Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[Kenneth Lerman]

The classic way of selection an editor is to look at environment variables:
EDITOR is used for a line oriented editor
VISUAL is used for a visual editor

So, export VISUAL=emacs will select emacs as the visual editor.
export EDITOR=nano

etc.

Ken
Kenneth Lerman
55 Main Street
Newtown, CT 06470



On Sun, Mar 17, 2019 at 11:40 AM Jon Elson  wrote:

> On 03/17/2019 09:15 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> > On Sun, 17 Mar 2019 at 13:51, Nicklas Karlsson
> >  wrote:
> >> Do not know if I like emacs but it seems to stick forever.
> Emacs is a "heavyweight" editor.  It pulls in so many
> language support libraries that it takes a long time to
> load.  It used to take a whole minute on my CNC computer a
> long time ago.  That one was very short on memory, but was
> good enough for the old EMC2. Much better now, but still a
> few seconds delay to start.
> > Doesn't appear on the LiveCD as far as I can see. vi is there...
> >
> > This isn't about editors. This is about changes we can make in the
> > LinuxCNC sample configs _only_ to make the user experience a bit
> > better.
> >
> > And clicking "Edit G-code" and having nothing happen is not good.
> >
> Hmm, maybe during install the script could look for what
> editors are actually installed and select one of them to be
> used by the Edit button.
>
> Jon
>
>
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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[Jon Elson]

On 03/20/2019 12:40 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:

Gedit scrambled a few files for me a few years ago. The next update seemed
to have fixed it and I have had no problems for a while. I did start
working on a copy only. That kept Murphy at bay.



Good and frequent backups are a GOOD thing!  Even if 
software were perfect, fat fingers can make a mess of hours 
of work.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 20 March 2019 16:14:26 Moses McKnight wrote:

> On 3/20/19 3:00 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday 20 March 2019 15:29:10 Peter C. Wallace wrote:
> >> On Wed, 20 Mar 2019, Moses McKnight wrote:
> >>> Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2019 13:45:42 -0500
> >>> From: Moses McKnight 
> >>> Reply-To: EMC developers 
> >>> To: emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor
> >>>
> >>> On 3/20/19 1:01 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>>> Now we know of two victims. Stuart and I. :(
> >>>
> >>> Well, that would explain why it didn't get removed from
> >>> distributions!  2 glitches out of 2 million installs (<-random
> >>> number), and it is the official text editor for Gnome.
> >>>
> >>> I suspect a third person probably had a glitch, and he fixed it -
> >>> which is why no one else has ever had a glitch with it. ;-)
> >>>
> >>> I've used it for many years myself and use it pretty much daily
> >>> still and have never had it corrupt anything.
> >>>
> >>> Moses
> >>
> >> I use gedit frequently, and at one time (maybe 2 years ago) I had
> >> it corrupt a file (multiple pastes scattered throughout the file),
> >> but since then I have not had a re-occurance, I do suspect that
> >> this bug (which might be WM dependent) has been fixed
> >
> > That makes 3, and thats much more recent than my last session which
> > was at least 4, maybe 5 years back. Your description, Peter, fits it
> > to a T.
>
> Now y'all are making me nervous!  Now what did I do with my backup
> tapes...
>
Tapes? I've been using amanda, with virtual tapes on a big hd for over a 
decade, and have found 2 things:

1: The hard drive is at least 10,000% more dependable
2: The virtual tape is no more complex than an array of directories on 
the hard drive, and because the hard drive is random access, its about 
that same 10,000% faster when you need to recover something.

Only if you want archival, off site storage of business data in case the 
IRS comes calling, should you resort to tapes, and then I'd seriously 
consider the only slightly increased cost of a hard drive on a per 
gigabyte stored, use of hard drives you fill up, unmount and take 
offsite.  The first time an offsite tape pukes, it could cost you a lot 
more than the cost of a much more dependable hard drive.  Here, I'm 100% 
hobbiest, so the 60 days worth of vtapes on a 2T drive satisfies my 
major worries as I can lose a drive, run up to Staples and pickup 
another, do a bare metal install with the LCNC LiveCD, get the amanda 
home dir from the backup, get my wrapper stuff from the backups image 
of /Genes-Amanda-Helper.061 then install amanda from its source, get the 
amanda database data and configs that generated last nights backup, 
recover the rest of it, and have that machine ready for tonights backup 
long before its due to start.

You can't begin to do that with real tapes.

You may have been kidding about the tapes, but I'm not.

Basicly I'm lazy, computers are programmable, so why should I sweat it 
when they can do a much better job at a repetitive thing like doing a 
backup every night? It absolutely makes zero sense for me to do it.

All driven by a cron job, I don't worry about it getting done, nor do I 
have to babysit it, it just gets done every night, and if I fall over 
before sunup, it will continue to be done until someone kills the power 
to these machines.

Since my missus is computer illiterate, crippled up and can't get to them 
anyway, that would probably be up to one of my boys who are all swimming 
or rescue boating in the Platte River right now.  And despite my 
preaching about linux, are all running winderz on their home machines.

And thats my $0.02 on the subject.

Thanks all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>



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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[Stuart Stevenson]

I kept two hawk eyes on it for a couple years.
Now I just use one eye but I still don't trust it completely.
:)

On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 3:12 PM Moses McKnight  wrote:

>
>
> On 3/20/19 3:00 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday 20 March 2019 15:29:10 Peter C. Wallace wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 20 Mar 2019, Moses McKnight wrote:
> >>> Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2019 13:45:42 -0500
> >>> From: Moses McKnight 
> >>> Reply-To: EMC developers 
> >>> To: emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor
> >>>
> >>> On 3/20/19 1:01 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>>> Now we know of two victims. Stuart and I. :(
> >>>
> >>> Well, that would explain why it didn't get removed from
> >>> distributions!  2 glitches out of 2 million installs (<-random
> >>> number), and it is the official text editor for Gnome.
> >>>
> >>> I suspect a third person probably had a glitch, and he fixed it -
> >>> which is why no one else has ever had a glitch with it. ;-)
> >>>
> >>> I've used it for many years myself and use it pretty much daily
> >>> still and have never had it corrupt anything.
> >>>
> >>> Moses
> >>
> >> I use gedit frequently, and at one time (maybe 2 years ago) I had it
> >> corrupt a file (multiple pastes scattered throughout the file), but
> >> since then I have not had a re-occurance, I do suspect that this bug
> >> (which might be WM dependent) has been fixed
> >>
> > That makes 3, and thats much more recent than my last session which was
> > at least 4, maybe 5 years back. Your description, Peter, fits it to a T.
> >
>
> Now y'all are making me nervous!  Now what did I do with my backup tapes...
>
>
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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[Moses McKnight]

On 3/20/19 3:00 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Wednesday 20 March 2019 15:29:10 Peter C. Wallace wrote:


On Wed, 20 Mar 2019, Moses McKnight wrote:

Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2019 13:45:42 -0500
From: Moses McKnight 
Reply-To: EMC developers 
To: emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

On 3/20/19 1:01 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

Now we know of two victims. Stuart and I. :(


Well, that would explain why it didn't get removed from
distributions!  2 glitches out of 2 million installs (<-random
number), and it is the official text editor for Gnome.

I suspect a third person probably had a glitch, and he fixed it -
which is why no one else has ever had a glitch with it. ;-)

I've used it for many years myself and use it pretty much daily
still and have never had it corrupt anything.

Moses


I use gedit frequently, and at one time (maybe 2 years ago) I had it
corrupt a file (multiple pastes scattered throughout the file), but
since then I have not had a re-occurance, I do suspect that this bug
(which might be WM dependent) has been fixed


That makes 3, and thats much more recent than my last session which was
at least 4, maybe 5 years back. Your description, Peter, fits it to a T.



Now y'all are making me nervous!  Now what did I do with my backup tapes...


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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 20 March 2019 15:29:10 Peter C. Wallace wrote:

> On Wed, 20 Mar 2019, Moses McKnight wrote:
> > Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2019 13:45:42 -0500
> > From: Moses McKnight 
> > Reply-To: EMC developers 
> > To: emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor
> >
> > On 3/20/19 1:01 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >> Now we know of two victims. Stuart and I. :(
> >
> > Well, that would explain why it didn't get removed from
> > distributions!  2 glitches out of 2 million installs (<-random
> > number), and it is the official text editor for Gnome.
> >
> > I suspect a third person probably had a glitch, and he fixed it -
> > which is why no one else has ever had a glitch with it. ;-)
> >
> > I've used it for many years myself and use it pretty much daily
> > still and have never had it corrupt anything.
> >
> > Moses
>
> I use gedit frequently, and at one time (maybe 2 years ago) I had it
> corrupt a file (multiple pastes scattered throughout the file), but
> since then I have not had a re-occurance, I do suspect that this bug
> (which might be WM dependent) has been fixed
>
That makes 3, and thats much more recent than my last session which was 
at least 4, maybe 5 years back. Your description, Peter, fits it to a T.

> > ___
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> > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
>
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
>
> (\__/)
> (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
> (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>



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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 20 March 2019 14:45:42 Moses McKnight wrote:

> On 3/20/19 1:01 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Now we know of two victims. Stuart and I. :(
>
> Well, that would explain why it didn't get removed from distributions!
>  2 glitches out of 2 million installs (<-random number), and it is the
> official text editor for Gnome.
>
> I suspect a third person probably had a glitch, and he fixed it -
> which is why no one else has ever had a glitch with it. ;-)
>
> I've used it for many years myself and use it pretty much daily still
> and have never had it corrupt anything.
>
> Moses
>
So that explains that faint knocking on wood sound I hear 
occasionally. :)  Its burnt me bad enough I wouldn't ask it to 
print "hello world." even today, With my luck, cups would run it thru a 
rot-13 and save it on it way to one of my printers.

I'd have to grudgingly agree that its probably been fixed by now as I've 
been pretty public about it, without a single person on this list 
(except Stuart just today) posting a single "me too" post that I've 
seen.

Maybe its true, I've been accused of having the "nack" several times in 
my 84 years. ;-)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 20 Mar 2019, Moses McKnight wrote:


Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2019 13:45:42 -0500
From: Moses McKnight 
Reply-To: EMC developers 
To: emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

On 3/20/19 1:01 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

Now we know of two victims. Stuart and I. :(


Well, that would explain why it didn't get removed from distributions!  2 
glitches out of 2 million installs (<-random number), and it is the official 
text editor for Gnome.


I suspect a third person probably had a glitch, and he fixed it - which is 
why no one else has ever had a glitch with it. ;-)


I've used it for many years myself and use it pretty much daily still and 
have never had it corrupt anything.


Moses




I use gedit frequently, and at one time (maybe 2 years ago) I had it corrupt a 
file (multiple pastes scattered throughout the file), but since then I have 
not had a re-occurance, I do suspect that this bug (which might be WM 
dependent) has been fixed




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Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[Moses McKnight]

On 3/20/19 1:01 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

Now we know of two victims. Stuart and I. :(


Well, that would explain why it didn't get removed from distributions!  2 
glitches out of 2 million installs (<-random number), and it is the official 
text editor for Gnome.


I suspect a third person probably had a glitch, and he fixed it - which is why 
no one else has ever had a glitch with it. ;-)


I've used it for many years myself and use it pretty much daily still and have 
never had it corrupt anything.


Moses


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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 20 March 2019 13:40:34 Stuart Stevenson wrote:

> Gedit scrambled a few files for me a few years ago. The next update
> seemed to have fixed it and I have had no problems for a while. I did
> start working on a copy only. That kept Murphy at bay.
>
Watch him carefully Stuart, that SOB will drink your last beer with no 
apology's. :)
 
> On Wed, Mar 20, 2019, 8:52 AM andy pugh  wrote:
> > On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 at 13:00, Gene Heskett 
> > wrote:
> >
> > How gedit ever made it into LinuxCNC as the default editor is
> >
> > > immaterial, but when it was found to be a file scrambler it should
> > > not have taken several years to remove it.
> >
> > I think it only ever scrambled files for one user.

Now we know of two victims. Stuart and I. :(
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> >
> > ___
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[Stuart Stevenson]

Gedit scrambled a few files for me a few years ago. The next update seemed
to have fixed it and I have had no problems for a while. I did start
working on a copy only. That kept Murphy at bay.


On Wed, Mar 20, 2019, 8:52 AM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 at 13:00, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
> How gedit ever made it into LinuxCNC as the default editor is
> > immaterial, but when it was found to be a file scrambler it should not
> > have taken several years to remove it.
>
>
> I think it only ever scrambled files for one user.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 at 13:00, Gene Heskett  wrote:

How gedit ever made it into LinuxCNC as the default editor is
> immaterial, but when it was found to be a file scrambler it should not
> have taken several years to remove it.


I think it only ever scrambled files for one user.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 20 March 2019 07:06:36 Stuart Stevenson wrote:

> The second vid was so funny. I have seen/heard conversations like
> this. I am still laughing. 
>
> Most likely, anyone understanding the joke will have NO problem with
> which editor to use. The choice of notepad or wordpad is a big
> decision in some universes.

The choice should boil down to chooseing one, getting intimately familiar 
with it, without it ever scrambling your prose, will be a good choice.  
How gedit ever made it into LinuxCNC as the default editor is 
immaterial, but when it was found to be a file scrambler it should not 
have taken several years to remove it.  If it had been nano or pico, 
which in my experience has Just Worked, we would never have had this 
discussion as nano is supplied on every install cd I have ever burned.  
Mousepad? Never heard of it. It works I guess, but I'm now used to 
geany, and any safe editor (gedit is not "safe") can change that default 
in your .ini file.

> The choice of which screen 'Axis, Touchy etc' is also difficult if you
> have very little experience with CNC controls. Virtually any one of
> the control screens can get the job done but which one is BETTER?
> Depends
>
> Now 'depends' is another late life choice to be made. It is just a
> blink of the eyes between diapers and depends. Time passes SO fast.
> Which is better Depends or Tranquility or Egosan? Choices Choices
> Choices - LIFE IS SSSO HARD!!
>
> but then HARD is a relative term also for us older gents. Which
> hardness aid is the best?

Who cares after the estrogen hormones are gone?  Men last decades longer 
than women in any event in that department anyway. Dammit.
>
> HTH
> heh
>
> regards
> Stuart
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 1:47 AM Alec Ari via Emc-developers <
>
> emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
> > Hey everyone,
> >
> >
> > I skimmed through this discussion a bit, I use Pluma most of the
> > time. In the Linux world, the never ending war has been between Vim
> > vs. Emacs. I don't use either, ever. If I don't have a graphical
> > environment going, I use nano, an editor that absolutely everyone
> > makes fun of. What is it with text editors and all the bickering
> > that goes on? If you use Pluma or Kate, what does that make you, and
> > why is everyone so incredibly opinionated over which editor _YOU_
> > use?
> >
> > This whole debate has been made fun of in movies and TV as well:
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpdngXQOkBI
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsoOG6ZeyUI
> >
> > Alec
> >
> >
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[Stuart Stevenson]

The second vid was so funny. I have seen/heard conversations like this. I
am still laughing. 

Most likely, anyone understanding the joke will have NO problem with which
editor to use. The choice of notepad or wordpad is a big decision in some
universes.

The choice of which screen 'Axis, Touchy etc' is also difficult if you have
very little experience with CNC controls. Virtually any one of the
control screens can get the job done but which one is BETTER? Depends

Now 'depends' is another late life choice to be made. It is just a blink of
the eyes between diapers and depends. Time passes SO fast.
Which is better Depends or Tranquility or Egosan? Choices Choices Choices -
LIFE IS SSSO HARD!!

but then HARD is a relative term also for us older gents. Which hardness
aid is the best?

HTH
heh

regards
Stuart



On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 1:47 AM Alec Ari via Emc-developers <
emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> Hey everyone,
>
>
> I skimmed through this discussion a bit, I use Pluma most of the time. In
> the Linux world, the never ending war has been between Vim vs. Emacs. I
> don't use either, ever. If I don't have a graphical environment going, I
> use nano, an editor that absolutely everyone makes fun of. What is it with
> text editors and all the bickering that goes on? If you use Pluma or Kate,
> what does that make you, and why is everyone so incredibly opinionated over
> which editor _YOU_ use?
>
> This whole debate has been made fun of in movies and TV as well:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpdngXQOkBI
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsoOG6ZeyUI
>
> Alec
>
>
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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[Alec Ari via Emc-developers]

Hey everyone,


I skimmed through this discussion a bit, I use Pluma most of the time. In the 
Linux world, the never ending war has been between Vim vs. Emacs. I don't use 
either, ever. If I don't have a graphical environment going, I use nano, an 
editor that absolutely everyone makes fun of. What is it with text editors and 
all the bickering that goes on? If you use Pluma or Kate, what does that make 
you, and why is everyone so incredibly opinionated over which editor _YOU_ use?

This whole debate has been made fun of in movies and TV as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpdngXQOkBI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsoOG6ZeyUI

Alec


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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 18 March 2019 17:37:53 (PVT) Paul Lawrence wrote:

> In which case they need our collective boot up their backsides for
> shipping software with broken links.
>
> Regards
>
> Paul

While the statement about communications below may have been the 
impression you've gotten, the statement above is way out of line, even 
insulting. Given that 75% of the code that makes up LinuxCNC was written 
by the folks you are addressing on this list, you are out of line.

Such things as the current discussion re gedit, come a lot closer to the 
shit happens category and certainly aren't showstoppers.

Better yet, because of this discussion, the next respin will have this 
detail fixed. Probably not with my fav editor, but at least with 
something that because of this discussion, is known to work without any 
gotcha's. That will probably be just one of the improvements in the next 
respin.  And was probably triggered by a background IRC discussion about 
the next release even if a time frame for it has not been established 
that I am aware of.

And while I forget it entirely too often, a thank you to the folks who 
not only wrote the code, but who take the time to answer my stupid 
questions is certainly worth a thank you.

I look at my part in this as being that of the canary in the coal mine. I 
stop singing and start cheeping if I find what I'd call a bug. I also 
try to entertain with some of the war stories I've been involved in in 
my practice of electronics over the last 70+ years.  Yup, I'm a genuine 
old fart.
>
> On 18/03/2019 18:59, andy pugh wrote:
> > On Mon, 18 Mar 2019 at 17:01, (PVT) Paul Lawrence
> >
> >  wrote:
> >> Interesting thoughts. But it would never have been a problem in the
> >> first place if there was communication between the people who write
> >> the software and the people build the distribution.
> >
> > In the case of the LiveCD they are actually the same people.
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[(PVT) Paul Lawrence]

In which case they need our collective boot up their backsides for 
shipping software with broken links.


Regards

Paul

On 18/03/2019 18:59, andy pugh wrote:

On Mon, 18 Mar 2019 at 17:01, (PVT) Paul Lawrence
 wrote:


Interesting thoughts. But it would never have been a problem in the
first place if there was communication between the people who write the
software and the people build the distribution.

In the case of the LiveCD they are actually the same people.



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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[(PVT) Paul Lawrence]

Interesting thoughts. But it would never have been a problem in the 
first place if there was communication between the people who write the 
software and the people build the distribution.


Regards

Paul




On 03/17/2019 11:16 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:


On Sunday 17 March 2019 11:39:05 Jon Elson wrote:


On 03/17/2019 09:15 AM, andy pugh wrote:

On Sun, 17 Mar 2019 at 13:51, Nicklas Karlsson

 wrote:

Do not know if I like emacs but it seems to stick forever.

Emacs is a "heavyweight" editor.  It pulls in so many
language support libraries that it takes a long time to
load.  It used to take a whole minute on my CNC computer a
long time ago.  That one was very short on memory, but was
good enough for the old EMC2. Much better now, but still a
few seconds delay to start.


Doesn't appear on the LiveCD as far as I can see. vi is there...

This isn't about editors. This is about changes we can make in the
LinuxCNC sample configs _only_ to make the user experience a bit
better.

I think it IS about editors, making sure the experience of using it
impresses the user that this IS a professional cnc even if its free.

And clicking "Edit G-code" and having nothing happen is not good.

Agree 100%.


Hmm, maybe during install the script could look for what
editors are actually installed and select one of them to be
used by the Edit button.

Jon

Thats a great idea, Jon.

And making the script smart enough to know the difference between a good
editor and a potential disaster is an exercise for the script author.
Yes, exactly.  Put the most favored ones first in the search, and check 
for the ones that just sort of work only if the good ones are NOT 
installed.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[(PVT) Paul Lawrence]

Very true Chris. As a community we should not be 'breaking things'. Some 
better communication between Developers and those making the 
distribution would go a long way.


Regards

Paul


On 18/03/2019 01:28, Chris Morley wrote:

Maybe we could be more mindful of requirements/expectations when making a 
distribution. Probably a checklist in developers docs would helpful.
I would bet more  screens have external program expectations too.


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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[Chris Morley]

Maybe we could be more mindful of requirements/expectations when making a 
distribution. Probably a checklist in developers docs would helpful.
I would bet more  screens have external program expectations too.

Chris


 Original message 
From: Jon Elson 
Date: 2019-03-17 5:56 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: EMC developers 
Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

On 03/17/2019 12:49 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:
> Or maybe upon first use in LinuxCNC a box would pop up to allow the choice
> of available editors.
>
>
Yup, as long as that is a once-only script that replaces
itself once a selection is made, that would be very good!

Jon


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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[Jon Elson]

On 03/17/2019 12:49 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:

Or maybe upon first use in LinuxCNC a box would pop up to allow the choice
of available editors.


Yup, as long as that is a once-only script that replaces 
itself once a selection is made, that would be very good!


Jon


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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[Jon Elson]

On 03/17/2019 11:16 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Sunday 17 March 2019 11:39:05 Jon Elson wrote:


On 03/17/2019 09:15 AM, andy pugh wrote:

On Sun, 17 Mar 2019 at 13:51, Nicklas Karlsson

 wrote:

Do not know if I like emacs but it seems to stick forever.

Emacs is a "heavyweight" editor.  It pulls in so many
language support libraries that it takes a long time to
load.  It used to take a whole minute on my CNC computer a
long time ago.  That one was very short on memory, but was
good enough for the old EMC2. Much better now, but still a
few seconds delay to start.


Doesn't appear on the LiveCD as far as I can see. vi is there...

This isn't about editors. This is about changes we can make in the
LinuxCNC sample configs _only_ to make the user experience a bit
better.

I think it IS about editors, making sure the experience of using it
impresses the user that this IS a professional cnc even if its free.

And clicking "Edit G-code" and having nothing happen is not good.

Agree 100%.


Hmm, maybe during install the script could look for what
editors are actually installed and select one of them to be
used by the Edit button.

Jon

Thats a great idea, Jon.

And making the script smart enough to know the difference between a good
editor and a potential disaster is an exercise for the script author.
Yes, exactly.  Put the most favored ones first in the 
search, and check for the ones that just sort of work only 
if the good ones are NOT installed.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 17 March 2019 13:49:33 Stuart Stevenson wrote:

> Or maybe upon first use in LinuxCNC a box would pop up to allow the
> choice of available editors.
>
Thats not a bad idea, but why limit it to first run.  Its proably about 
the same amount of coding to add a "choose editor" to the file pulldown.

That way the new user could try whats available and settle on something 
that works for them.

But since names are arbitrary, how do we limit the choices presented 
to "real" editors?

That could be a conundrum.  Could the file utility help to ID the 
candidates for the list shown? IDK, never tried it for that.

But I think some effort should be made along that line just to protect 
the new bee from his own ineptitude until he's more familiar with linux.

> On Sun, Mar 17, 2019, 11:18 AM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > On Sunday 17 March 2019 11:39:05 Jon Elson wrote:
> > > On 03/17/2019 09:15 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> > > > On Sun, 17 Mar 2019 at 13:51, Nicklas Karlsson
> > > >
> > > >  wrote:
> > > >> Do not know if I like emacs but it seems to stick forever.
> > >
> > > Emacs is a "heavyweight" editor.  It pulls in so many
> > > language support libraries that it takes a long time to
> > > load.  It used to take a whole minute on my CNC computer a
> > > long time ago.  That one was very short on memory, but was
> > > good enough for the old EMC2. Much better now, but still a
> > > few seconds delay to start.
> > >
> > > > Doesn't appear on the LiveCD as far as I can see. vi is there...
> > > >
> > > > This isn't about editors. This is about changes we can make in
> > > > the LinuxCNC sample configs _only_ to make the user experience a
> > > > bit better.
> >
> > I think it IS about editors, making sure the experience of using it
> > impresses the user that this IS a professional cnc even if its free.
> >
> > > > And clicking "Edit G-code" and having nothing happen is not
> > > > good.
> >
> > Agree 100%.
> >
> > > Hmm, maybe during install the script could look for what
> > > editors are actually installed and select one of them to be
> > > used by the Edit button.
> > >
> > > Jon
> >
> > Thats a great idea, Jon.
> >
> > And making the script smart enough to know the difference between a
> > good editor and a potential disaster is an exercise for the script
> > author. Probably better to give it a list of known good editors,
> > best to safely usable, with nano at the bottom of the list, not
> > because its dangerous but because of its ugly face, its otherwise a
> > good editor. Heck, you can even train it to scroll a line at a time.
> >  That half a screen jump bothers my concentration.
> >
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> >
> >
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[Stuart Stevenson]

Or maybe upon first use in LinuxCNC a box would pop up to allow the choice
of available editors.

On Sun, Mar 17, 2019, 11:18 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Sunday 17 March 2019 11:39:05 Jon Elson wrote:
>
> > On 03/17/2019 09:15 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> > > On Sun, 17 Mar 2019 at 13:51, Nicklas Karlsson
> > >
> > >  wrote:
> > >> Do not know if I like emacs but it seems to stick forever.
> >
> > Emacs is a "heavyweight" editor.  It pulls in so many
> > language support libraries that it takes a long time to
> > load.  It used to take a whole minute on my CNC computer a
> > long time ago.  That one was very short on memory, but was
> > good enough for the old EMC2. Much better now, but still a
> > few seconds delay to start.
> >
> > > Doesn't appear on the LiveCD as far as I can see. vi is there...
> > >
> > > This isn't about editors. This is about changes we can make in the
> > > LinuxCNC sample configs _only_ to make the user experience a bit
> > > better.
>
> I think it IS about editors, making sure the experience of using it
> impresses the user that this IS a professional cnc even if its free.
> > >
> > > And clicking "Edit G-code" and having nothing happen is not good.
>
> Agree 100%.
>
> > Hmm, maybe during install the script could look for what
> > editors are actually installed and select one of them to be
> > used by the Edit button.
> >
> > Jon
>
> Thats a great idea, Jon.
>
> And making the script smart enough to know the difference between a good
> editor and a potential disaster is an exercise for the script author.
> Probably better to give it a list of known good editors, best to safely
> usable, with nano at the bottom of the list, not because its dangerous
> but because of its ugly face, its otherwise a good editor. Heck, you can
> even train it to scroll a line at a time.  That half a screen jump
> bothers my concentration.
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 17 March 2019 11:39:05 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 03/17/2019 09:15 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> > On Sun, 17 Mar 2019 at 13:51, Nicklas Karlsson
> >
> >  wrote:
> >> Do not know if I like emacs but it seems to stick forever.
>
> Emacs is a "heavyweight" editor.  It pulls in so many
> language support libraries that it takes a long time to
> load.  It used to take a whole minute on my CNC computer a
> long time ago.  That one was very short on memory, but was
> good enough for the old EMC2. Much better now, but still a
> few seconds delay to start.
>
> > Doesn't appear on the LiveCD as far as I can see. vi is there...
> >
> > This isn't about editors. This is about changes we can make in the
> > LinuxCNC sample configs _only_ to make the user experience a bit
> > better.

I think it IS about editors, making sure the experience of using it 
impresses the user that this IS a professional cnc even if its free.
> >
> > And clicking "Edit G-code" and having nothing happen is not good.

Agree 100%.

> Hmm, maybe during install the script could look for what
> editors are actually installed and select one of them to be
> used by the Edit button.
>
> Jon

Thats a great idea, Jon.

And making the script smart enough to know the difference between a good 
editor and a potential disaster is an exercise for the script author. 
Probably better to give it a list of known good editors, best to safely 
usable, with nano at the bottom of the list, not because its dangerous 
but because of its ugly face, its otherwise a good editor. Heck, you can 
even train it to scroll a line at a time.  That half a screen jump 
bothers my concentration.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[Jon Elson]

On 03/17/2019 09:15 AM, andy pugh wrote:

On Sun, 17 Mar 2019 at 13:51, Nicklas Karlsson
 wrote:

Do not know if I like emacs but it seems to stick forever.
Emacs is a "heavyweight" editor.  It pulls in so many 
language support libraries that it takes a long time to 
load.  It used to take a whole minute on my CNC computer a 
long time ago.  That one was very short on memory, but was 
good enough for the old EMC2. Much better now, but still a 
few seconds delay to start.

Doesn't appear on the LiveCD as far as I can see. vi is there...

This isn't about editors. This is about changes we can make in the
LinuxCNC sample configs _only_ to make the user experience a bit
better.

And clicking "Edit G-code" and having nothing happen is not good.

Hmm, maybe during install the script could look for what 
editors are actually installed and select one of them to be 
used by the Edit button.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 17 March 2019 10:15:41 andy pugh wrote:

> On Sun, 17 Mar 2019 at 13:51, Nicklas Karlsson
>
>  wrote:
> > Do not know if I like emacs but it seems to stick forever.
>
> Doesn't appear on the LiveCD as far as I can see. vi is there...
>
> This isn't about editors. This is about changes we can make in the
> LinuxCNC sample configs _only_ to make the user experience a bit
> better.
>
> And clicking "Edit G-code" and having nothing happen is not good.

I've now installed mousepad just to see what it looks like. Better than I 
expected.  Its very quick and it works but in a smallish window that I 
assume can be pulled out to a usable size. But unless I give it the full 
filename, it doesn't show me the file I just edited if launched without 
an argument.  The file open dialog rates a zero from me, wants pdf's but 
can't render them. Launched by lcnc, it will probably open the currently 
loaded gcode file, and that IS the point, but it fails to see the 
directory contents one is cd'd into. Thumbs down because of that.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 17 March 2019 09:49:44 Nicklas Karlsson wrote:

> Do not know if I like emacs but it seems to stick forever.
>
True Nik, and its been around forever, but it has stuff that a new bee is 
going to get lost in. I've used it several times, but I have never been 
comfortable doing it. I'm always afraid my short fat fingers will press 
the wrong key. Keyboard ops that normal folks do with one hand that 
spans an octave on the piano, are 2 handed ops for me.  Yet I have to 
buy gloves from the XXL pile just to get my hand thru the wrist of the 
glove & then fumble the vehicle keys because the gloves fingers are 1.5" 
longer than my fingers.

> > On Sun, 17 Mar 2019 at 10:13, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > > Reading the properties in synaptic, this seems like it might not
> > > be the ideal, at least in my experience.
> >
> > It's not ideal, but it is at least present on the LiveCD, whereas
> > Gedit isn't. Currently we distribute sample configs which try to use
> > an editor that isn't there if you press the "edit G-code" button in
> > Axis.

The liveCD could be respun... Into a liveDVD based on stretch even. :)  
Since the distro on that liveCD is now out of support and its repo's 
will go away...

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[andy pugh]

On Sun, 17 Mar 2019 at 13:51, Nicklas Karlsson
 wrote:
>
> Do not know if I like emacs but it seems to stick forever.

Doesn't appear on the LiveCD as far as I can see. vi is there...

This isn't about editors. This is about changes we can make in the
LinuxCNC sample configs _only_ to make the user experience a bit
better.

And clicking "Edit G-code" and having nothing happen is not good.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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Re: [Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[Nicklas Karlsson]

Do not know if I like emacs but it seems to stick forever.

> On Sun, 17 Mar 2019 at 10:13, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> 
> > Reading the properties in synaptic, this seems like it might not be the
> > ideal, at least in my experience.
> 
> It's not ideal, but it is at least present on the LiveCD, whereas Gedit isn't.
> Currently we distribute sample configs which try to use an editor that
> isn't there if you press the "edit G-code" button in Axis.
> 
> -- 
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> 
> 
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[Emc-developers] removal of gedit as default editor

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings;

browsing github, I see John Thornton changed it to Mousepad.

Reading the properties in synaptic, this seems like it might not be the 
ideal, at least in my experience.

Granted, gedit is a bad editor and has created several weeks worth of 
recovery/rebuild work for  me in times past with its penchant for 
scrambling and substituting whole pages of text while adding a typo 
correction to a hal file, a major pita for me on several occasions. It 
should be purged from the debian repositories but I don't have the 
rights.

What I did do was find another editor that worked, including the very 
configurable printing of hard copy, and one that only makes the same 
typo mistakes my ancient figures make, and it has NEVER scrambled a file 
for me, and that is geany.  So if I were to have removed gedit, which I 
have here, then to me that default editor would be geany. Its best 
feature is its history, opening every file you've been working on and 
have not explicitly closed in recent history everytime its launched, 
extremely handy when verifying net or signal or param names so they are 
used correctly throughout a given config.

That, and like nano, it Just Works. But with a much prettier face.

My 2 cents.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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