RE: RE: test equipment
Environmental ambients are also a problem on OATS testing. Getting to know the environmental ambient profile helps. If you have a receiver with A-B trace capability, you can do a rough check by scanning with and without the UUT powered, and subtracting the scans, theoretically subtracting out the environmental ambients only. ALL potential UUT emanations need to be verified. On our 10m OATS, we control UUT power from the test bench for convenience. Doug Frazee EMC Compliance Engineer Alliant Techsystems, Inc. Advanced Technology Applications 401 Defense Highway Annapolis, Maryland 21401 USA Tel:(410) 266-1793 FAX:(410) 266-1853 doug_fra...@atk.com -- From: moshe_vald...@isr-rhv-p1.ccmail.compuserve.com[SMTP:Moshe_Valdman@ISR-RHV-P1 .CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM] Sent: Sunday, August 10, 1997 5:25 AM To:r_flind...@emulex.com; jschippano...@sstech.on.ca; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re:RE: test equipment Hello all, I guess the biggest problem with in-plant radiated measurements is environmental noise. Apart from turning the UUT (unit under test) on and off, does anyone have a good technique to separate the UUT emissions from the environment? In my experience (assuming you do not gave a shielded room)this could save up to 50 percent of the testing time. (A shielded room has its own problems of course re emissions amplitude relative to an open site) thanks moshe valdman I'm looking for low end new/used equipment to set up a small test lab for radiated emissions. Any names of suppliers of such equipment in North America would be greatly appreciated. Specifically, I am looking to purchase a spectrum analyzer and antenna that would be acceptable for pre scans before going to a registered lab. Any suggestions for equipment is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance John Schippanoski jschippano...@sstech.on.ca
RE: test equipment
Greetings All! Just a quick note on test equipment..Be careful if you come accross HP Spectrum Analyzers for sale, make sure you purchase from a reliable source. There have been several recent robberies at local test labs, where ony HP 8566Bs were taken. So, there are stolen units floating around out there! regards, Randy Flinders EMC Test Engineer Emulex Network Systems -- From: Jim Bacher[SMTP:j...@mmsday.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 1997 7:40 AM To: emc-pstc Subject: Re: test equipment A friend of mine is getting out of the EMC Business and has all of his equipment up for sale. His name is Dick Heaton. His company is Midwest EMC Measurements. He can be reached at 937-667-3467 Voice or 937-667-6180 fax. Jim Bacher Senior Engineer, Monarch Marking Systems, Inc. email: j...@mmsday.com voice: 1-937-865-2020 fax: 1-937-865-2048
Re[2]:RE: test equipment
Hello Gordon, Indeed most of the environment is coming from within the building, is unpredictable, changes during the day, and sometimes has frequencies similar or identical to the UUT (since some of it is generated by similar equipment). The TV/Radio type of environment is normally not the problem. thanks moshe
RE: Status of prEN50178
Georg, My representative from LGA America did a little research for me some time ago about leakage current as associated with prEN50178. The research was on the 1994 issue of the standard but it still applies in the 1995 issue. The results are based on section 5.2.11.1 of the standard: 1) For pluggable (removable or modular line cord) equipment the limit is 3.5mA AC / 10 mA DC. 2) If the leakage current exceeds this level then there are three possible ways of dealing with the problem. a) a duplicate PE conductor or an automatic disconnect which monitors the continuity of the PE conductor or a double-wound transformer. I believe the double-wound transformer is referring to an isolation transformer in the primary circuit which actually reduces leakage current. We have always used an auxiliary PE conductor which is bonded to the rear of the chassis and the PE symbol is located at both the conductors bonding points. When the second PE conductor is used a note is required in the operating documents which requires the connection of this conductor for proper installation (section 7.2.3.2). 3) For fixed installations there is effectively no limit to the amount of leakage current allowed. See section 5.2.11.1 paragraph 4, Measurement of leakage current is required on EE which is not intended for permanent connection. Conversely, for EE that is intended for permanent connection (fixed wiring), the measurement is not required. There was a letter written by LGA Nrnberg with instructions to this effect. I do not readily have my copy but if you contact LGA in Nurnberg and reference a letter written to Mr. Werner Pster of LGA America / EuroConsult, Inc. They should be able to copy you with the information. Also the letter was originated in German, if you want an English version I believe Mr. Pster still has a translated copy. You reference myself and reach him at: Mr. Werner Pster / EuroConsult, Inc. euroc...@shore.net However he is a consultant and he may charge for his time. As far as the status of the standard is concerned, I was told that even though it is still in preliminary status, the standard has been released for type testing. Once again you may validate this with LGA Nrnberg. Hope this helps you. Doug Powell Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. Ft. Collins, Colorado USA do...@ftc2.aei.com -- From: Georg M. Dancau To: emc-pstc discussion group Subject: Status of prEN50178 List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Tuesday, August 12, 1997 6:28AM Hi compliance folks Does anybody have information about the status of prEN50178. This standard specifies some measures which must be taken if the leakage greater than 3.5 mA (clause 5.2.11). Best regards George -- ** * Dr. Georg M. Dancau * HAUNI MASCHINENBAU AG * * g.m.dan...@ieee.org * EMC Lab * * TEL: +49 40 7250 2102 * Kampchaussee 8..32 * * FAX: +49 40 7250 3801 * 21027 Hamburg, Germany * ** * home: Tel: +49 4122 99451 * Hauptstr. 60a * * Fax: +49 4122 99454 * 25492 Heist, Germany* **
Varistors Allowed - Line to Ground? for European App's
Hello All, Have heard from some sources that surge-suppressors (Varistors, MOVs, Tranzorbs, etc) are not allowed between Line to Ground, in EN 60950 products, except perhaps for permanently mounted, wired-in equipment. The concern seems to be that of increased leakage-current over time. Looking for authoritive substantiation (citations - please) for allowance or disallowance of surge-surpressors from Line to Ground under European compliance considerations. And, if you know of any surge-suppressors which bear European approvals for this application (line-ground), I'd appreciate that info too. ThanX, Art Michael Int'l Product Safety News A.E. Michael, Editor P.O. Box 1561 EMC-PSTC Middletown CT 06457-8061 U.S.A. Phone : (860) 344-1651 Fax: (860) 346-9066 Email : i...@connix.com Website: http://www.safetylink.com ISSN : 1040-7529
Software Icons - Reply
In response: IEC 417 Series entitled Standards for Graphic symbols For Use on Equipment may be of assistance. C. Johnson CSA email: johns...@csa.ca You Wrote: ray_russ...@leco.com 08/05/97 08:06am Greetings Friends, As technology grows, and the push is for user friendly interfacing of equipment, I find that software icons are taking the place of the good old push button. We have a piece of equipment where the software controls a function of turning a gas supply on, off, or in the stand by mode. We would like to make the icons international. However, I do not think that 1 and 0 can be correctly used in this application. Would anyone have a source for this information or any ideas? Thank you for your assistance, Ray Russell ray_russ...@leco.com
Re[2]:RE: test equipment
Hello Gordon, Indeed most of the environment is coming from within the building, is unpredictable, changes during the day, and sometimes has frequencies similar or identical to the UUT (since some of it is generated by similar equipment). The TV/Radio type of environment is normally not the problem. thanks moshe
RE: OATS gndplane surface
We have had great results using hardware cloth, overlapped about 5cm or more and spot soldered every 20cm or so with a heavy duty soldering iron. Our oats site has shown no deterioration in the last 5 years of existence. Very inexpensive. I don't know if the same material is available in Australia, but the material we use solders very easily. Regards, Darrell Upson -- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Cc: Martin Garwood Subject: OATS gndplane surface List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Tuesday, August 12, 1997 12:00AM Hi Gang, We are currently building another OATS and are looking into the most cost time effective way of achieving a uniform conductive groundplane without using mesh. Does anyone have experience with using galvanised metal sheet, and if so, the best method to join the sheets together (silver solder, braze etc), bearing in mind temperatures 45deg C in summer. Alternatively has anyone had success with conductive coating or paint over concrete ? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Best Regards. -- Martin Garwood, Manager, Austest Laboratories 4/87 Reserve Road Artarmon NSW 2064 AUSTRALIA ph: 61-2-94374500 fax: 61-2-94374600 http://www.austest.com.au
Re: test equipment
A friend of mine is getting out of the EMC Business and has all of his equipment up for sale. His name is Dick Heaton. His company is Midwest EMC Measurements. He can be reached at 937-667-3467 Voice or 937-667-6180 fax. Jim Bacher Senior Engineer, Monarch Marking Systems, Inc. email: j...@mmsday.com voice: 1-937-865-2020 fax: 1-937-865-2048
AW: Status of prEN50178
Hello, please find attached the information from my database. Kind regards Andreas Thomas EPPS Toshiba Europe andre...@toshiba-teg.com -- Von: Georg M. Dancau[SMTP:dan...@compuserve.com] Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. August 1997 19:13 An: emc-pstc discussion group Betreff: Status of prEN50178 Hi compliance folks Does anybody have information about the status of prEN50178. This standard specifies some measures which must be taken if the leakage greater than 3.5 mA (clause 5.2.11). Best regards George -- ** * Dr. Georg M. Dancau * HAUNI MASCHINENBAU AG * * g.m.dan...@ieee.org * EMC Lab * * TEL: +49 40 7250 2102 * Kampchaussee 8..32 * * FAX: +49 40 7250 3801 * 21027 Hamburg, Germany * ** * home: Tel: +49 4122 99451 * Hauptstr. 60a * * Fax: +49 4122 99454 * 25492 Heist, Germany* ** Copyright 1996 by AFNOR, BSI, DIN Page: 1 Document identifier DIN EN 50178*VDE 0160 Publication date 1994-11-00 StatusDC*N-E Update flag U Title(English)Electronic equipment for use in power installations; German version prEN 50178:1994 Title(German) Ausruestung von Starkstromanlagen mit elektronischen Betriebsmitteln; Deutsche Fassung prEN 50178:1994 Abstract (English)This document applies to electronic equipment (EE) used in power installations. It is particularly concerned with the design and testing of EE and their integration into a system for power installations. This document refers to EE with control action on systems and processes such as for generation, distribution, conversion and control of electrical energy. It stipulates minimum requirements for the design and manufacture of EE, for protection against electric shock, for testing and for its integration into systems for power installations. Abstract (German) Das Dokument gilt fuer das Ausruesten von Starkstromanlagen mit elektrischen Betriebsmitteln. Es behandelt insbesondere die Bemessung und Pruefung von EB sowie ihren Einbau in eine Starkstromanlage. Das Dokument bezieht sich auf EB mit Steuereinwirkung auf Systeme und Prozesse, z.B. zur Erzeugung, Verteilung, Umwandlung, Steuerung und Regelung von Elektroenergie. Es stellt Mindestanforderungen an die Bemessung und Herstellung der EB, fuer den Schutz gegen gefaehrliche Koerperstroeme, fuer die Pruefung und fuer ihren Einbau in Starkstromanlagen. Expiry date 1994-12-31 Issuing body DIN Deutsches Institut fuer Normung e.V. Available fromBeuth Verlag GmbH*VDE-VERLAG GMBH Classification29.240.01 Committee reference Deutsche Elektrotechnische Kommission im DIN und VDE Copyright 1996 by AFNOR, BSI, DIN Page: 2 Original language de Amended byDIN-Mitt., 1995, Nr. 6, S. A 430 Replaces DIN VDE 0160(1990.12) Internat'l Relationship prEN 50178-1994, EQV Cross references DIN 40101-1*DIN EN 50081-1*DIN EN 50082-1*DIN EN 60146-1-1*DIN EN 60204-1*DIN EN 60439-1*DIN EN 60950*DIN EN 61010-1*DIN IEC 68-2-3*DIN IEC 68-2-6*DIN IEC 352-1*DIN IEC 352-2*DIN IEC 654-3*DIN VDE 0100-410*DIN VDE 0100-430*DIN VDE 0100-540*DIN VDE 0100-600*DIN VDE 0106-1*DIN VDE 0106-102*DIN VDE 0111-3*DIN VDE 0303-1*DIN VDE 0470-1*DIN VDE 0636-10*DIN VDE 0800-5*EN 29000-1988*EN 50081-1-1992*EN 50081-2-1993*EN 50082-1-1992*EN 60068-2-2-1993*EN 60068-2-31-1993*EN 60146-1-1-1993*EN 60204-1-1985*EN 60269-1-1989*EN 60439-1-1990*EN
Power Outages
I am trying to decide how much backup battery capacity I should have in a particular product for the home environment. The only purpose of the battery is to allow product operation during the more common (hopefully short) power outages. Could anyone point me in the direction of data about the frequency and duration of utility power outages? The areas I am most interested in are North and South America and Europe. Thanks. Tom Brose tbr...@aksys.com
RE: test equipment
John, I had been using an HP 8591A with EMI options for 5 years. Saw the new HP 8591 EM and wanted it. but what to do with my old one? The boss wouldn't let me spend $$$ for a new one when the old one still worked. So my HP salesperson arranged to have Telogy buy my old one for a really good price. With that arrangement I was able to convince the boss to allow me to buy the new one. Telogy was happy, HP was happy, my boss was happy and so was I. I haven't failed to pass EMI at an outside test house on any product I have tested in-house in 6 years. That makes my boss really happy. Telogy was extremely responsive, friendly and helpful. Highly recommended. Telogy 3885 Bohannon Dr. Menlo Park, CA 94025 1-800-835-6494 Attn: Cheryl Holmes email: chol...@telogy1.com Regards, Scott Douglas Principal Compliance Engineer ECRM Incorporated Telephone: 1-508-851-0207 Facsimilie: 1-508-851-7016 e-mail: sdoug...@ecrm.com ___ From: jschippano...@sstech.on.ca on Tue, Aug 12, 1997 9:11 AM Subject: test equipment To: emc-p...@ieee.org I'm looking for low end new/used equipment to set up a small test lab for radiated emissions. Any names of suppliers of such equipment in North America would be greatly appreciated. Specifically, I am looking to purchase a spectrum analyzer and antenna that would be acceptable for pre scans before going to a registered lab. Any suggestions for equipment is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance John Schippanoski jschippano...@sstech.on.ca -- RFC822 Header Follows -- Received: by macgtwy.ecrm.com with SMTP;12 Aug 1997 09:04:59 -0400 Received: by highlight.ecrm.com (AA17565); Fri, 8 Aug 97 18:00:11 EDT Received: from ruebert.ieee.org by maildrop.ecrm.com (RAA11489); Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:57:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by ruebert.ieee.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA20623; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:31:12 -0400 (EDT) From: jschippano...@sstech.on.ca Message-Id: 9708088710.aa871060...@hub.sstech.on.ca X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R6.00.02 List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Fri, 08 Aug 97 13:28:34 -0500 To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: test equipment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: jschippano...@sstech.on.ca X-Resent-To: Multiple Recipients emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org X-Listname: emc-pstc X-List-Description: Product Safety Tech. Committee, EMC Society X-Info: Help requests to emc-pstc-requ...@majordomo.ieee.org X-Info: [Un]Subscribe requests to majord...@majordomo.ieee.org X-Moderator-Address: emc-pstc-appro...@majordomo.ieee.org
Re: OATS gndplane surface
I once inherited an outdoor aluminum ground plane 10m OATS. The contraction and expansion was quite evident and out of spec. We ended up sawing slots to relieve the TCE warp. The slots 12 inches each, 8 of them per 4'x8' section were aligned in the same direction as to the tower/TT direction. Steel, however, I have been told will not warp as much but needs fillet welding after the edges have been beveled. There are welding techniques that reduce warpage. A guy in Redding, Rocky Largent has welded large refrigerators the size of anechoic chambers. I would use him if I had to have a steel ground plane. Good Luck, Hans __ Reply Separator _ Subject: OATS gndplane surface Author: Non-HP-austest (aust...@mpx.com.au) at HP-ColSprings,mimegw5 List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date:8/12/97 8:09 AM Hi Gang, We are currently building another OATS and are looking into the most cost time effective way of achieving a uniform conductive groundplane without using mesh. Does anyone have experience with using galvanised metal sheet, and if so, the best method to join the sheets together (silver solder, braze etc), bearing in mind temperatures 45deg C in summer. Alternatively has anyone had success with conductive coating or paint over concrete ? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Best Regards. -- Martin Garwood, Manager, Austest Laboratories 4/87 Reserve Road Artarmon NSW 2064 AUSTRALIA ph: 61-2-94374500 fax: 61-2-94374600 http://www.austest.com.au
Non-wood OATS weather protection enclosures
Good Day List, We are considering replacing our barn and I would prefer not to use wood for the new structure. I am seeking information on alternate materials / construction techniques as well as vendors of turnkey solutions. Thanks in advance for any help, -Bob bob_sy...@gilbarco.com
OATS gndplane surface
Hi Gang, We are currently building another OATS and are looking into the most cost time effective way of achieving a uniform conductive groundplane without using mesh. Does anyone have experience with using galvanised metal sheet, and if so, the best method to join the sheets together (silver solder, braze etc), bearing in mind temperatures 45deg C in summer. Alternatively has anyone had success with conductive coating or paint over concrete ? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Best Regards. -- Martin Garwood, Manager, Austest Laboratories 4/87 Reserve Road Artarmon NSW 2064 AUSTRALIA ph: 61-2-94374500 fax: 61-2-94374600 http://www.austest.com.au
