RE: Don'r Get Caught Running a Red Traffic Light!

[Price, Ed]

>-Original Message-
>From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
>Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 11:25 AM
>To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
>Subject: Re: Don'r Get Caught Running a Red Traffic Light!
>
>
>
>I read in !emc-pstc that Cortland Richmond <72146@compuserve.com>
>wrote (in <200203071101_mc3-f4e2-e...@compuserve.com>) about 'Don'r Get
>Caught Running a Red Traffic Light!', on Thu, 7 Mar 2002:
>>Another interesting susceptibility issue is usually not 
>addressed. Snow. I
>>have seen (in Germany) a radar stoplight camera flashing over and over
>>again as it tried to capture on film snowflakes rash enough 
>to pass while
>>the light was red.
>
>In Germany, even the snowflakes *must* observe the regulations. (;-)
>-- 
>Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. 


Oh no!

A Precipitation Directive?!



Ed Price
ed.pr...@cubic.com
Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab
Cubic Defense Systems
San Diego, CA  USA
858-505-2780  (Voice)
858-505-1583  (Fax)
Military & Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty
Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis

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Flammability rating question

[Gelfand, David]

What does UL 94 VTM-0 mean?  I saw it in a spec for thin insulating plastic.


Thanks,

David.

David Gelfand
Regulatory Approvals
Kontron Canada Inc.


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Re: Analog PSTN approvals in Czech Republic

[JPR3]

In a message dated 3/7/2002, John Woodgate writes:


> If such a modem meets the 60 mA requirement, is there really a problem?
> 

Hi John:

A modem that does not provide 60 mA limiting will be suitable for use in a 
wider range of countries, and will be less expensive to implement.  The need 
for this limiter is being phased out in France, the only country that ever 
actually needed it for network compatibility.

While the limiter was never needed on the Czech republic network, it is 
included in TBR 21 and is therefore technically a requirement if the 
manufacturer chooses the optional TBR 21 compliance path in the Czech 
Republic.  In the past, if the manufacturer chose to use the Czech Republic 
national requirements instead, there were other onerous requirements on the 
ringer impedance.  

Based on input from another member of the group, there is evidently a new 
Czech national requirement that eliminates the unusual ringer requirement and 
also requires no current limiting.  This represents some welcome progress 
toward harmonization of analog PSTN requirements.


Joe Randolph
Telecom Design Consultant
Randolph Telecom, Inc.
781-721-2848
http://www.randolph-telecom.com

Laser Safety

[Mark Schmidt]

Thanks, I appreciate the input.

Mark Schmidt
Regulatory Compliance 
X-Rite Incorporated 
USA
(616) 257 2469
mschm...@xrite.com  


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Re: Analog PSTN approvals in Czech Republic

[John Woodgate]

I read in !emc-pstc that j...@aol.com wrote (in <184.4b90e2c.29b8f1e2@ao
l.com>) about 'Analog PSTN approvals in Czech Republic', on Thu, 7 Mar
2002:
>I would like to know if it is now possible to get approval in the Czech 
>Republic for an analog PSTN modem that uses a more "worldwide" type of 
>interface that has high ringing impedance and no 60 mA current limiter.

If such a modem meets the 60 mA requirement, is there really a problem?
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!

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Re: Don'r Get Caught Running a Red Traffic Light!

[John Woodgate]

I read in !emc-pstc that Cortland Richmond <72146@compuserve.com>
wrote (in <200203071101_mc3-f4e2-e...@compuserve.com>) about 'Don'r Get
Caught Running a Red Traffic Light!', on Thu, 7 Mar 2002:
>Another interesting susceptibility issue is usually not addressed. Snow. I
>have seen (in Germany) a radar stoplight camera flashing over and over
>again as it tried to capture on film snowflakes rash enough to pass while
>the light was red.

In Germany, even the snowflakes *must* observe the regulations. (;-)
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!

---
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RE: EMC and Safety PCB Reviews

[Robert Wilson]

Keyboard Engineer?! That's a good one. Must remember that!
 
Bob Wilson 
TIR Systems Ltd. 
Vancouver. 
-Original Message-
From: Stephen Phillips [mailto:step...@cisco.com] 
Sent: March 7, 2002 12:27 PM
To: Robert Wilson
Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: EMC and Safety PCB Reviews
 
  Technically, we refer to them as PCB CAD engineers.  
I omitted part of that, given the fact that it seemed redundant - 
PCB's being the topic of discussion.  I now return you back 
to your job as Keyboard Engineer.  

  Stephen  


At 11:59 AM 3/7/2002, Robert Wilson wrote:



As a side issue to your comments, I find it interesting that you refer
to a PCB designer as a CAD engineer . Does this mean that 20 years ago
he would have been a Drafting Board engineer ?  :)

 

Kind of sad when the tool one uses is deemed to be more important than
the job one is doing!

Bob Wilson 
TIR Systems Ltd. 
Vancouver. 

RE: EMC and Safety PCB Reviews

[Stephen Phillips]

  Technically, we refer to them as PCB CAD engineers.
I omitted part of that, given the fact that it seemed redundant -
PCB's being the topic of discussion.  I now return you back
to your job as Keyboard Engineer.

  Stephen


At 11:59 AM 3/7/2002, Robert Wilson wrote:

As a side issue to your comments, I find it interesting that you refer to 
a PCB designer as a CAD engineer . Does this mean that 20 years ago he 
would have been a Drafting Board engineer ?  :)




Kind of sad when the tool one uses is deemed to be more important than the 
job one is doing!


Bob Wilson
TIR Systems Ltd.
Vancouver.

-Original Message-
From: Stephen Phillips [mailto:step...@cisco.com]
Sent: March 6, 2002 9:49 AM
To: Alex McNeil
Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: EMC and Safety PCB Reviews



  Alex,

  Not really a thorough checklist per se, but for Safety -
roughly this:

  Throughout this process, I prefer to make notes on
paper doc's, and then sit with the CAD engineer to go
over the review on his computer screen and make any
changes right then.

  - Schematic review (identify and mark up areas such as
exceeding SELV and TNV, identify critical nets).

  - Provide Creepage & Clearance guidelines to PCB CAD
engineer (who inputs into the CAD system, based on
properties assigned to the nets via the schematic).

  - Placement Review (using marked up silk-screen or
assy. dwg based on previously marked up schematics),
and also layer stack-up review at this time.

  - Layout review, layer by layer routing, and adjacent layer
to layer.

  - Layout review with mechanical dwg superimposed
(since sheet metal could violate C&C to the PCB).

  - Thieving review (since thieving could violate C&C).

  - Photo Artwork review (especially planes).

  - Also make sure the drawings tell the PCB fab. vendor
not to put their logo smack in that nice clearing which
is your C&C!

  Obviously I left out a lot of the detail as to what we
design for and what we specifically look for, but these
are the higher granularity steps I routinely take.  EMC
would take more or less the same steps, just with
different criteria.

  I hope this helps,
  Stephen


At 09:46 AM 3/6/2002, you wrote:


Hi Guys,

I am being asked to review PCB's for EMC (and Safety) acceptance. I was
going to try and collate a check list then I thought of this wonderful
forum!!

Does any kind person have such a thing as an EMC PCB Design Check list?
Does any kind person have such a thing as an Safety PCB Design Check list?

Kind Regards
Alex McNeil
Principal Engineer
Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375
Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321
email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com

RE: EMC and Safety Schematic and PCB Reviews

[djumbdenstock]

Here's one we use for general guidance.  It doesn't cover every situation,
but it points us in the right direction.

Best regards,

Don

 <> 

> --
> From: Alex McNeil[SMTP:alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com]
> Reply To: Alex McNeil
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 11:38 AM
> To:   'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org'
> Subject:  EMC and Safety Schematic and PCB Reviews
> 
> 
> Hi Guys,
> 
> Sorry I should have mentioned SCHEMATIC and PCB LAYOUT review: 
> 
> Does any kind person have such a thing as an EMC Schematic and PCB Design
> Check list? 
> Does any kind person have such a thing as a Safety Schematic and PCB
> Design
> Check list?
> 
> Kind Regards
> Alex McNeil
> Principal Engineer
> Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375
> Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321
> email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com
> 
> >  -Original Message-
> > From:   Alex McNeil  
> > Sent:   Wednesday, March 06, 2002 2:46 PM
> > To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
> > Subject:EMC and Safety PCB Reviews
> > 
> > Hi Guys,
> > 
> > I am being asked to review PCB's for EMC (and Safety) acceptance. I was
> > going to try and collate a check list then I thought of this wonderful
> > forum!!
> > 
> > Does any kind person have such a thing as an EMC PCB Design Check list? 
> > Does any kind person have such a thing as an Safety PCB Design Check
> list?
> > 
> > Kind Regards
> > Alex McNeil
> > Principal Engineer
> > Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375
> > Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321
> > email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com
> > 
> 
> ---
> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
> Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
> 
> Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/
> 
> To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
>  majord...@ieee.org
> with the single line:
>  unsubscribe emc-pstc
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 


EMC Check List.DOC
Description: MS-Word document

Re: EN 61010: 2001 DOW

[John Woodgate]

I read in !emc-pstc that Nick Martin  wrote (in
) about 'EN 61010: 2001 DOW', on Thu, 7 Mar
2002:
>I agree the IEC copy (which the national version covers) does not appear to 
>make 
>this clear

IEC standards do not have 'dow' dates; those are only for ENs.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!

---
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Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

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Re: Analog PSTN approvals in Czech Republic

[JPR3]

In a message dated 3/7/2002, Roger Magnuson writes:


> According to TZP 018, ring impedance should be >= 4 kohm i.e. there is no
> upper limit anymore.
> 


Hi Roger:

Thanks for the update.  Is TZP 018 available on the web?  I would like to 
obtain a copy to review.


Joe Randolph
Telecom Design Consultant
Randolph Telecom, Inc.
781-721-2848
http://www.randolph-telecom.com

RE: Analog PSTN approvals in Czech Republic

[Roger Magnuson]

Joe,

In theory, you could approve a modem which complies with TBR 21 plus

- Czech Advisory Notes ATAAB AN018, AN019, AN020 (ETSI TR 103 000-3-1, 2, 3
V1.1.1 (2001-08))
- Network Compatibility tests (tone/ring detectors etc)

however it's a lot more convenient to use the TZP 018 spec as the test lab
(TESTCOM) don't have automated TBR 21 testing facilities (they have to
perform check testing regardless if you already have a TBR 21 test report or
not).

According to TZP 018, ring impedance should be >= 4 kohm i.e. there is no
upper limit anymore.

In-country EMC and safety testing is no longer required (DoC in Czech
language is sufficient).

Hope this helps. Let me know if you need further info (or help with
approval!).

Roger Magnuson
TGC Communication AB
Sweden


-Original Message-
From: treg-appro...@world.std.com [mailto:treg-appro...@world.std.com]On
Behalf Of j...@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 5:40 PM
To: t...@world.std.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Analog PSTN approvals in Czech Republic


Hello All:

Recent discussions on the emc-pstc listserver indicate that the Czech
Republic has made an effort to harmonize their regulatory scheme with the
European Union's RTTE directive.  I have reviewed the text of the Czech
legislation, Act 151/2000, and find that it has some similarities to the
RTTE
directive, but also has significant differences.  It is also unclear how far
they have moved in actually implementing the new law.

Do any members of the group have up-to-date information on the Czech
requirements for approval of analog PSTN terminal equipment, such as a
modem?
 The last I heard, applicants could either comply with an old Czech national
standard that had unusual requirements for ringing impedance, or they could
comply with TBR 21 and its unusual requirement for 60 mA current limiting.

I would like to know if it is now possible to get approval in the Czech
Republic for an analog PSTN modem that uses a more "worldwide" type of
interface that has high ringing impedance and no 60 mA current limiter.

Any insight that members may have on this would be greatly appreciated.


Joe Randolph
Telecom Design Consultant
Randolph Telecom, Inc.
781-721-2848
http://www.randolph-telecom.com

RE: Analog PSTN approvals in Czech Republic

[Ian Jennings]

Hi 

Latest situation in the Czech republic is that equipment connecting to the
analogue PSTN requires in country testing against national standards. I
believe that FMS6123/92 still applies.   An R&TTE style process applies to
most other product types.

I'm pretty sure that we have the analogue standards on file. 

Should you require further information, please feel free to contact me.

Regards

Ian Jennings
Managing Consultant

InterConnect Communications

Tel + 44 (0) 1291 638417
Fax +44 (0) 1291638401

 -Original Message-
From:   j...@aol.com [mailto:j...@aol.com] 
Sent:   07 March 2002 16:40
To: t...@world.std.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject:Analog PSTN approvals in Czech Republic

Hello All:

Recent discussions on the emc-pstc listserver indicate that the Czech 
Republic has made an effort to harmonize their regulatory scheme with the 
European Union's RTTE directive.  I have reviewed the text of the Czech 
legislation, Act 151/2000, and find that it has some similarities to the
RTTE 
directive, but also has significant differences.  It is also unclear how far

they have moved in actually implementing the new law.

Do any members of the group have up-to-date information on the Czech 
requirements for approval of analog PSTN terminal equipment, such as a
modem? 
 The last I heard, applicants could either comply with an old Czech national

standard that had unusual requirements for ringing impedance, or they could 
comply with TBR 21 and its unusual requirement for 60 mA current limiting.

I would like to know if it is now possible to get approval in the Czech 
Republic for an analog PSTN modem that uses a more "worldwide" type of 
interface that has high ringing impedance and no 60 mA current limiter.

Any insight that members may have on this would be greatly appreciated.


Joe Randolph
Telecom Design Consultant
Randolph Telecom, Inc.
781-721-2848
http://www.randolph-telecom.com

RE: EMC and Safety PCB Reviews

[Robert Wilson]

As a side issue to your comments, I find it interesting that you refer
to a PCB designer as a "CAD engineer". Does this mean that 20 years ago
he would have been a "Drafting Board engineer"?  :)
 
Kind of sad when the tool one uses is deemed to be more important than
the job one is doing!
Bob Wilson 
TIR Systems Ltd. 
Vancouver. 
-Original Message-
From: Stephen Phillips [mailto:step...@cisco.com] 
Sent: March 6, 2002 9:49 AM
To: Alex McNeil
Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: EMC and Safety PCB Reviews
 
  Alex,  

  Not really a thorough checklist per se, but for Safety - 
roughly this:  

  Throughout this process, I prefer to make notes on 
paper doc's, and then sit with the CAD engineer to go 
over the review on his computer screen and make any 
changes right then.  

  - Schematic review (identify and mark up areas such as 
exceeding SELV and TNV, identify critical nets). 

  - Provide Creepage & Clearance guidelines to PCB CAD 
engineer (who inputs into the CAD system, based on 
properties assigned to the nets via the schematic).  

  - Placement Review (using marked up silk-screen or 
assy. dwg based on previously marked up schematics), 
and also layer stack-up review at this time.  

  - Layout review, layer by layer routing, and adjacent layer 
to layer.  

  - Layout review with mechanical dwg superimposed 
(since sheet metal could violate C&C to the PCB).  

  - Thieving review (since thieving could violate C&C).  

  - Photo Artwork review (especially planes).  

  - Also make sure the drawings tell the PCB fab. vendor 
not to put their logo smack in that nice clearing which 
is your C&C!  

  Obviously I left out a lot of the detail as to what we 
design for and what we specifically look for, but these 
are the higher granularity steps I routinely take.  EMC 
would take more or less the same steps, just with 
different criteria.  

  I hope this helps, 
  Stephen  


At 09:46 AM 3/6/2002, you wrote:



Hi Guys,

I am being asked to review PCB's for EMC (and Safety) acceptance. I was
going to try and collate a check list then I thought of this wonderful
forum!!

Does any kind person have such a thing as an EMC PCB Design Check list? 
Does any kind person have such a thing as an Safety PCB Design Check
list?

Kind Regards
Alex McNeil
Principal Engineer
Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375
Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321
email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com
 

Analog PSTN approvals in Czech Republic

[JPR3]

Hello All:

Recent discussions on the emc-pstc listserver indicate that the Czech 
Republic has made an effort to harmonize their regulatory scheme with the 
European Union's RTTE directive.  I have reviewed the text of the Czech 
legislation, Act 151/2000, and find that it has some similarities to the RTTE 
directive, but also has significant differences.  It is also unclear how far 
they have moved in actually implementing the new law.

Do any members of the group have up-to-date information on the Czech 
requirements for approval of analog PSTN terminal equipment, such as a modem? 
 The last I heard, applicants could either comply with an old Czech national 
standard that had unusual requirements for ringing impedance, or they could 
comply with TBR 21 and its unusual requirement for 60 mA current limiting.

I would like to know if it is now possible to get approval in the Czech 
Republic for an analog PSTN modem that uses a more "worldwide" type of 
interface that has high ringing impedance and no 60 mA current limiter.

Any insight that members may have on this would be greatly appreciated.


Joe Randolph
Telecom Design Consultant
Randolph Telecom, Inc.
781-721-2848
http://www.randolph-telecom.com

---
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VDE Wire Type N2GFAF

[Peter Merguerian]

Dear All,

I am look for more info regarding a VDE wire type N2GFAF. The specific one I
have is by Hew.Kabel

1) Is this wire suitable for working voltage of max. 250 V?
2) What is the dielectric strength withstand voltage for this wire?
3) What is the current and temperature rating for this wire?


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PETER S. MERGUERIAN
Technical Director
I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd.
26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211
Or Yehuda 60251, Israel
Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022  Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019
Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175
http://www.itl.co.il
http://www.i-spec.com





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Re: Don'r Get Caught Running a Red Traffic Light!

[Cortland Richmond]

Another interesting susceptibility issue is usually not addressed. Snow. I
have seen (in Germany) a radar stoplight camera flashing over and over
again as it tried to capture on film snowflakes rash enough to pass while
the light was red.

Cortland

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RE: RTTE

[richwoods]

I found the english document at 
http://www.mdcr.cz/english/index14.htm

Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International


-Original Message-
From: h.knud...@niros.com [mailto:h.knud...@niros.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 3:10 AM
To: richwo...@tycoint.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: SV: RTTE


Hello Richard,

About Czech Republic, you may find the information in English on:

http://www.ctu.cz/index_a.htm

The Czech legislation "Act No. 151/2000 Coll. on telecommunication and
changes in other Acts"  may be found on http://www.mdcr.cz/tp1.htm (it is
not accessible at the moment).

Best regards

Helge Knudsen
Test & Approval manager
Niros Telecommunication
Hirsemarken 5
DK-3520 Farum
Denmark
Tel +45 44 34 22 51
Fax +45 44 99 28 08
email h.knud...@niros.com



-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: richwo...@tycoint.com [mailto:richwo...@tycoint.com]
Sendt: 6. marts 2002 14:07
Til: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Emne: RE: RTTE



I just investigated Hungary and found the following variances for radio:

A Hungarian national (local manufacturer or importer) is responsible for
compliance including signing the Declaration of Conformity.

The user instuctions and DoC must be in the Hungarian language.

Annex VIII includes the harmonized bands in Hungary. For some bands, the use
of the alert symbol is not required and neither is notification.

Unfortunatuly, the Czec directive is not available in English on the
website, so I have not been able to determine if there are any deviations
from the EU RTTE.

Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International


-Original Message-
From: Andre, Pierre-Marie [mailto:pierre-marie.an...@intel.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 6:13 AM
To: 'Kim Boll Jensen'; richwo...@tycoint.com
Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: RTTE


I thought that Hungary and Czec Republic are "R&TTE" like,not 100% R&TTE
according to the type of interface some minor difference may exist
(label,DOC,...)



Pierre-Marie Andre
Intel Sophia Senior Approval Engineer


-Original Message-
From: Kim Boll Jensen [mailto:kimb...@post7.tele.dk]
Sent: mercredi 6 mars 2002 11:44
To: richwo...@tycoint.com
Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: RTTE


Hi all

Here are a list of all countries which at the moment have implemented the
R&TTE
directive 100%:
Belgium
Denmark
UK
Finland
France
Greece
Holland
Italy
Iceland
Ireland
Liechtenstein
Luxembourg
Norway
Portugal
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Czech Republic
Germany
Hungary
Austria


richwo...@tycoint.com skriver:

> Have any European states that are not EU or EFTA members adopted the RTTE
> Directive and Notificaion process? In other words, will any other European
> countries allow a radio product to be placed on their market if the
> processes of the RTTE Directive are followed without the need for any
other
> special national process to be followed?
>
> Richard Woods
> Sensormatic Electronics
> Tyco International
>
> ---
> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
> Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
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 Da

Re: R&TTE DoC Philosophy Question

[Paolo Gemma]

Both solution are valid.
In the R&TTE you can find an article said that at your choice you can 
demonstrate the conformity to the essential requirements 3.1b

using the procedure of the EMC directive if applicable.
I don't suggest this, for me, complicate way two declaration two 
documentation..
You can demonstrate the compliance of the equipment to  the essential 
requirements 3.1a using HS listing on the OJ under the R&TTE directive or 
under the EMC directive this is clearly wrote on the note of the OJ:

NOTES:
1. In addition, standards published under Directives 73/23/EC and 
89/336/EEC may be used to demon-

strate compliance with Articles 3(1)(a) and 3(1)(b) of Directive 1999/5/EC.

And make only one DoC for the R&TTE directive using the standards of the EMC.

But I don't understand the reason to use the standard of the EMC directive 
for a R&TTE equipments.


Ciao
Paolo

At 12:27 3/6/02 -0500, Kevin Harris wrote:


Hello,

I just had an interesting conversation with the head of a approvals
authority for a country in Europe for our type of products. The discussion
centred around DoCs for the R&TTE directive. His claim was since I had a
product that has a R&TTE element to it then I just make a declaration to the
R&TTE directive and not to the EMC directive. To support his claim he refers
to Article 3.1(b) of the R&TTE directive which states "1.The following
essential requirements are applicable to all apparatus"  and part (b) "the
protection requirements with respect to electromagnetic compatibility
contained in Directive 89/336/EEC. His interpretation is, then, that any
standard published in the OJ for the EMC standard is (by this clause) also
valid for the R&TTE directive and one should make their declaration
accordingly.

My interpretation of this statement is slightly different. I believe that I
cannot make an R&TTE directive DoC using EMC published standards. I felt
that the intention of this clause meant that just because you are declaring
to the R&TTE directive you are in no way relieved of the obligations of the
EMC directive. Accordingly we produce a EMC declaration and a R&TTE
declaration. The EMC declaration uses standards published in the EMC OJ to
show compliance and the R&TTE directive DoC is to the standards published in
the OJ for that directive.

In the end I suppose this is all semantics as you end up doing the same test
suite regardless but
What are the feeling of this group. Do you agree with either position? Do
you have another interpretation?



Best Regards,


Kevin Harris
Manager, Approval Services
Digital Security Controls
3301 Langstaff Road
Concord, Ontario
CANADA
L4K 4L2

Tel: +1 905 760 3000 Ext. 2378
Fax +1 905 760 3020

Email: harr...@dscltd.com


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--
Paolo Gemma
Siemens Information and Communication Network spa
Microwave Networks MW R&D NSA EMC
SS Padana sup. KM 158 20060 Cassina de'Pecchi (MI) Italy
phone +39 02 9526 6587fax +39 02 9526 6203
mobile +39 348 3690185
e-mail paolo.ge...@icn.siemens.it

--

Re: RE: EN 61010: 2001 DOW

[Nick Martin]

I have also just received my copy, and my understanding is as follows 
61010:1993 + A2 will not have a DOW set until all the other elements of 61010 ( 
i,e 61010-2- have been updated to refer to the 2001 copy.

This information is contained within the national foreword for BS EN 61010 i.e 
the UK version. Therefore they run in parallel until then.

I agree the IEC copy (which the national version covers) does not appear to 
make this clear

Nick Martin
Serco Test Systems

This is my personal opinion only and does not reflect the views or opinions of 
my employer







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SV: RTTE

[h . knudsen]

Hello Richard,

About Czech Republic, you may find the information in English on:

http://www.ctu.cz/index_a.htm

The Czech legislation "Act No. 151/2000 Coll. on telecommunication and
changes in other Acts"  may be found on http://www.mdcr.cz/tp1.htm (it is
not accessible at the moment).

Best regards

Helge Knudsen
Test & Approval manager
Niros Telecommunication
Hirsemarken 5
DK-3520 Farum
Denmark
Tel +45 44 34 22 51
Fax +45 44 99 28 08
email h.knud...@niros.com



-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: richwo...@tycoint.com [mailto:richwo...@tycoint.com]
Sendt: 6. marts 2002 14:07
Til: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Emne: RE: RTTE



I just investigated Hungary and found the following variances for radio:

A Hungarian national (local manufacturer or importer) is responsible for
compliance including signing the Declaration of Conformity.

The user instuctions and DoC must be in the Hungarian language.

Annex VIII includes the harmonized bands in Hungary. For some bands, the use
of the alert symbol is not required and neither is notification.

Unfortunatuly, the Czec directive is not available in English on the
website, so I have not been able to determine if there are any deviations
from the EU RTTE.

Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International


-Original Message-
From: Andre, Pierre-Marie [mailto:pierre-marie.an...@intel.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 6:13 AM
To: 'Kim Boll Jensen'; richwo...@tycoint.com
Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: RTTE


I thought that Hungary and Czec Republic are "R&TTE" like,not 100% R&TTE
according to the type of interface some minor difference may exist
(label,DOC,...)



Pierre-Marie Andre
Intel Sophia Senior Approval Engineer


-Original Message-
From: Kim Boll Jensen [mailto:kimb...@post7.tele.dk]
Sent: mercredi 6 mars 2002 11:44
To: richwo...@tycoint.com
Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: RTTE


Hi all

Here are a list of all countries which at the moment have implemented the
R&TTE
directive 100%:
Belgium
Denmark
UK
Finland
France
Greece
Holland
Italy
Iceland
Ireland
Liechtenstein
Luxembourg
Norway
Portugal
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Czech Republic
Germany
Hungary
Austria


richwo...@tycoint.com skriver:

> Have any European states that are not EU or EFTA members adopted the RTTE
> Directive and Notificaion process? In other words, will any other European
> countries allow a radio product to be placed on their market if the
> processes of the RTTE Directive are followed without the need for any
other
> special national process to be followed?
>
> Richard Woods
> Sensormatic Electronics
> Tyco International
>
> ---
> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
> Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
>
> Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/
>
> To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
>  majord...@ieee.org
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>  unsubscribe emc-pstc
>
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>  Ron Pickard:  emc-p...@hypercom.com
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>  Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/
> Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"

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Re: Modem Approval for China

[Leslie Bai]

 Russell,
It's waste of time, effort, and money dealing with CQCC to get China approval 
on your Modem, Actually, CQCC is NOT the right authority to approve your Modem.
Get in touch with me off line if you want to get your Modem approved in 30 days.
Leslie
 
  Russell  wrote: 
Can anybody advise on the best (or any!) route to approval for a UK 
manufactured modem for export to, and for sale in China (not Hong Kong). The 
modem in question already has European, North American and Australian 
approvals.

I'm reasonably familiar with the requirements, it's the process that's proving 
difficult to establish, along with pinning down the *costs* and *timescales*. 
Correspondence to the China Quality Certification Centre for Import and Export 
(www.cqc.com.cn) has gone unanswered, though one can apply for submission 
on-line.

I'd be interested in both least cost and least time options, and hearing from 
agencies or consultancies (preferably UK based) able to provide a turn-key 
service.

Having the modem manufactured in China *may* be an option, though the volumes 
aren't huge.

Thanks in anticipation.

Russell.


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RE: Laser Safety

[Peter Tarver]

Mark & John -

Since 21CFR is based on ANSI Z136.1, it seems the best of
references.  However, 21CFR is the ultimate judge for the
US.

ANSI Z136.2 is for fiber optic systems, rather than
products, but is still a good reference.

Regards,

Peter L. Tarver, PE
Product Safety Manager
Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services
peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com

> -Original Message-
> From: John Juhasz
> Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 12:28 PM
>
> Your best bet in classifying your 'system' is to
> look at ANSI Z136.1 and .2 specs. In my opinion
> (some may disagree)
> it's a good guide.
>
> John Juhasz
> Fiber Options
> Bohemia, NY


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RE: Laser Safety

[Peter Tarver]

Mark -

My first inclination is to ask: do you need Class I?  In the
US, the higher classes of laser products primarily require
labeling and additional information in instruction manuals.
As stated by Doug McKean, 21CFR allows the fiber optic
system connections to provide a level of safety, in the
sense that an open or broken fiber is not considered.

If the product will be marketing internationally,
IEC60825-1, Class 3B does have some potential design
requirements, but is otherwise significantly similar to
21CFR.  For IEC60825-1, fiber disconnection (as a
maintenance/service activity) and breakage (as a fault
condition) is considered in determination of laser class.


Regards,

Peter L. Tarver, PE
Product Safety Manager
Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services
peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com


> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Schmidt
> Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 11:17 AM
>
> I am trying to gain a better understanding of
> lasers and I have had some
> discussion and been told some things that don’t
> make much sense to me so
> I am asking the group for some guidance. Here is
> my question.
>
> If the unexpanded raw beam of a Class III b laser
> was incorporated into
> a larger system, is then expanded and used in
> this same system reducing
> the beam intensity to Class I levels. Would the
> overall system be
> classified as Class I ?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Mark Schmidt
> Regulatory Compliance
> X-Rite Incorporated
> U.S.A.
> (616) 257 2469
> mschm...@xrite.com 


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RE: Don't Get Caught Running a Red Traffic Light!

[Robert Wilson]

And not least, for pole-mounted red light cameras, you need shotgun
protection. :)

The first red light camera installed here (Vancouver) was dealt with
rather quickly in this manner.

Bob Wilson
TIR Systems Ltd.
Vancouver.

-Original Message-
From: Robert Johnson [mailto:john...@itesafety.com] 
Sent: March 6, 2002 12:23 PM
To: 'Peter Merguerian'
Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: Don'r Get Caught Running a Red Traffic Light!

Peter,

For your equipment special consideration of transient levels is needed.
Refer to annex G of 60950. If you power the pole mounted equipment from
overhead lines as do streetlights, you are likely to be overvoltage
category IV which might mean mains transient levels of 4 or 6 KV.

If the camera is remotely powered from inside a building, you might
treat the installation as TNV3, where 1.5 KV is the assumed transient
level (2.10.3.3 note 2) unless you know otherwise.

Don't forget you need lightning protection considerations.
(References are to IEC 60950-1 (2001-10) Ed. 1.0)

Bob Johnson
ITE Safety
 

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RE: EN 61010: 2001 DOW

[Barbara Judge]

We got our copy of the standard itself yesterday and there is no DOW listed
in the standard either.

Best Regards,
Barbara
___
Barbara L. Judge
Vice President 
Compliance Certification Services
Designated TCB and CAB
561F Monterey Road
Morgan Hill, CA 95037
408-463-0885 ext.104   
Fax:  408-463-0888
e-mail:  bju...@ccsemc.com
http://www.ccsemc.com


-Original Message-
From: richwo...@tycoint.com [mailto:richwo...@tycoint.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:10 PM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: EN 61010: 2001 DOW



All of the official dates set by CENELEC can be found at their website. 
http://www.cenelec.org/

Search for the standard and then click on the one of interest. However, in
this particular case, no DOW is listed. Strange.

Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International


-Original Message-
From: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com
[mailto:marti...@appliedbiosystems.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:30 PM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: EN 61010: 2001 DOW



Group,

Does anyone know what the Date of Withdrawal (DOW) is for EN 61010-1: 2001?

This new edition has been listed in the OJ at the web address below.
However, there is no " Date of cessation" listed in the OJ.  I have a copy
of the standard, yet the Forward Section does not state a DOW.

According to the OJ, Amendment A2 1995 to EN 61010 expired on April 1,
2001.  Does this mean that if I am declaring conformity to EN 61010-1 1993,
I can not declare conformity to A2 after April 1, 2001?  However, A2 is
included in the 2001 edition.  This implies that we need to continue to
conform to A2.  Any clarification that can be provided would be helpful.

Regards

Joe Martin
EMC/Product Safety Engineer
Applied Biosystems
marti...@appliedbiosystems.com



http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/dat/2002/c_057/c_05720020304en00010097.pdf


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