Re: Marking - Made in XXX
Amund, I believe it's a law in the US that all products be labeled with their country of origin. - Robert - Robert A. Macy, PEm...@california.com 408 286 3985 fx 408 297 9121 AJM International Electronics Consultants 619 North First St, San Jose, CA 95112 -Original Message- From: am...@westin-emission.no am...@westin-emission.no To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Saturday, April 20, 2002 3:08 PM Subject: Marking - Made in XXX Is it necessary to describe where a product is manufactured, as in Made in XXX. I have see this statement/label on many products, but is it only voluntary ? Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Marking - Made in XXX
Is it necessary to describe where a product is manufactured, as in Made in XXX. I have see this statement/label on many products, but is it only voluntary ? Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: High Temp Caps and Inductors
Derek: You obviously are facing a challenge (a.k.a. problem). Sometimes you actually have to make things yourself, and this may be one of those times. For the inductors, I'd say you will have to go with air core. I've done air core inductors up to the hundreds of microhenries (for LF antenna couplers) but we are talking big - 6 inch diameter by 18 inch length. I was also looking for high unloaded Q, which also influenced the size. But even with air core, you still have problems with the coil former and wire insulation. I used fiberglass, but although I haven't checked, I don't think that will work at 180C. Possibly Teflon (expensive) or maybe Delrin. For capacitors, you could go back to basics and make your own, with metal plates and dielectric. How about depleted Uranium for the plates, and Gandolinium dioxide for the dielectric? -( ;) Jack Jacob Z. Schanker, P.E. 65 Crandon Way Rochester, NY 14618 Phone: 585 442 3909 Fax: 585 442 2182 j.schan...@ieee.org - Original Message - From: lfresea...@aol.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 5:19 PM Subject: High Temp Caps and Inductors | Hi all, | | I'm designing a filter that has to live and work with an Ambient temp of 180 | C. Does anyone have suggestions as to component vendors that I could contact | for parts? | | Thanks, | | Derek Walton. | L F Research | --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
SV: Decoupling - capacitor values
Tim, The standard is IEC/EN60945:1997, Maritime navigation and radio communication equipment and systems - General requirements- Methods of testing and required test results. Almost all ship classification societies as Lloyd's Register (LR), Germanischer Lloyd (GL), American Bureau of Shipping (ABS), Bureau Veritas (BV), Det Norske Veritas (DNV), Registro Italiano Navale (RINA), Korean Register of Shipping (KR), China Classification Society (CCS) refer to IEC60945. The limits are: 150kHz-300kHz 80-52dBmV/m 300kHz - 30MHz 52-34dBmV/m 30M - 156MHz54dBmV/m 156M -165MHz24dBmV/m 165M - 1000MHz 54dBmV/m The 156M -165MHz band is used for marine radio communication, what's why they have stringent demands on radiated emission. Amund -Opprinnelig melding- Fra: Wan Juang Foo [mailto:f...@np.edu.sg] Sendt: 20. april 2002 06:30 Til: am...@westin-emission.no Kopi: ieee pstc list Emne: Re: Decoupling - capacitor values Amund, Cortland may be right, a chamber 'may not' be needed, high ambient considerations to be put aside for the moment, even if the emission is measured to be on the 24dBuV/m @ 3m, freq.band 155MHz-165MHz. I am just curious, what are the limits (or standards) are you trying to meet? From what I read here, is it CISPR22 (or EN 55022) or something like that (Class B) scaled back to 3 m? I note that it is about 20dB below FCC limits for class B (at 3m). If it is a single frequency line emission you can use a home made E or H field probe and work in the near field. Douglas Smith (who post frequently in this forum) have some good articles on DIY 1Ghz probes. You would need a E-field probe to 'sniff' out the CM portion of the emission and a H-field 'loop' to sniff out the offending loop before you can hug a 'return wire' to the offending signal line to cut the return loop down to size. I like to use the (thinisy, i.e. small gauge) wire-wraping wires for this. Good luck and hope that EMC don't always meant that it lead to Even More Coffee for the all nighter. Tim Foo Cortland Richmond 72146.373@compuserve. To: am...@westin-emission.no am...@westin-emission.no, ieee pstc com list emc-p...@ieee.org Sent by: cc: (bcc: Wan Juang Foo/ece/staff/npnet) owner-emc-pstc@majordo Subject: Decoupling - capacitor values (ESR, layout, CM filter) mo.ieee.org 04/20/02 05:39 AM Please respond to Cortland Richmond Cortland Richmond 72146@compuserve.com 04/20/02 05:39 AM Amund, You do not HAVE to be in a chamber to keep working on this. Since there is only one Vcc pin (which processor IS this? - be SURE there is only one Vcc pin; you may have an unfiltered, unconnected Vcc pin or two) you are limited in how many capacitors you can attach to it. This doesn't matter; if you filtered power, and got 7 dB, you've done there what CAN be done there and should look look at other things. Troubleshoot the board. I too have thrown solutions at problems without knowing what exactly was wrong. It takes too long and costs too much. Find the source. A small 'scope probe, with the end taped over, makes a serviceable E-field probe. snip --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: High Temp Caps and Inductors
I read in !emc-pstc that lfresea...@aol.com wrote (in 194.5bfc605.29f1e f...@aol.com) about 'High Temp Caps and Inductors', on Fri, 19 Apr 2002: I'm looking for Ceramics, 0.01 through 1 microfarad. Inductors, 1 to 100 microhenry, about 0.5 amps. You will not, I think, get ceramic capacitors in that value range that keep anything like their low-temperature value at 180 C. You probably need to look at glass-dielectric, but AFAIK a 1 uF glass cap would be physically very large. The normal core materials for inductors in that value range may well be near or above their Curie temperatures, too, so permeability values will be low and very temperature-sensitive. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Magnetic Testing
Bud, I don't have a copy of the IATA Packing Instruction here at the lab, but from what you described, it may be similar to the Compass Safe Distance test which is called out in the Maritime Navigation and Communication EMC Standard EN 60945:1997. This magnetic test determines the distances above which an equipment will not cause an unacceptable deviation of the ship's standard and steering compasses. The EUT is tested against a compass or magnetometer after magnetization in a specified DC field with a superimposed AC stabilizing field. A baroque-sounding test indeed, but it so happens that a four-foot high by two-foot diameter double-wound solenoid of solid 12-ga copper wire used in the Compass Safe test resides just to the left of my desk here in the lab (only 'cause it's a handy place to store it!). I'd be happy to discuss this test, if it seems relevant. My phone at work is: (360) 595-2785. Jim Ericson Senior EMC Engineer Acme Testing Company j...@acmetesting.com - Original Message - From: Pittman, Bud To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 11:44 AM Subject: Magnetic Testing Although this is not an EMC standard it is related. My lab has been asked to test our products to the magnetic standards of IATA Packing Instruction 902. This test determines the ability of a device to change a compass reading. I have the regulations and know how to do the test, but do not do it routinely. Products that fail this test must be labeled and additional shipping charges are imposed. I know that one of our products fails and we are labeling it. Fines for non-compliance are substantial, yet I am having a hard time finding anyone who knows about or complies with this standard. My questions are: Does anyone else perform this test, or have it performed on their products? What kind of results are you getting depending upon product size, shape, metal content? Are there exceptions or conditions that would exclude product families from this regulation. Any help or discussion would be appreciated. Bud Pittman Compliance Engineer LSI Logic Storage Systems, Inc. - Wichita KS bud.pitt...@lsil.com Tel 316-636-8718 Fax 316-636-8321 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Decoupling - capacitor values
Amund, Cortland may be right, a chamber 'may not' be needed, high ambient considerations to be put aside for the moment, even if the emission is measured to be on the 24dBuV/m @ 3m, freq.band 155MHz-165MHz. I am just curious, what are the limits (or standards) are you trying to meet? From what I read here, is it CISPR22 (or EN 55022) or something like that (Class B) scaled back to 3 m? I note that it is about 20dB below FCC limits for class B (at 3m). If it is a single frequency line emission you can use a home made E or H field probe and work in the near field. Douglas Smith (who post frequently in this forum) have some good articles on DIY 1Ghz probes. You would need a E-field probe to 'sniff' out the CM portion of the emission and a H-field 'loop' to sniff out the offending loop before you can hug a 'return wire' to the offending signal line to cut the return loop down to size. I like to use the (thinisy, i.e. small gauge) wire-wraping wires for this. Good luck and hope that EMC don't always meant that it lead to Even More Coffee for the all nighter. Tim Foo Cortland Richmond 72146.373@compuserve. To: am...@westin-emission.no am...@westin-emission.no, ieee pstc com list emc-p...@ieee.org Sent by: cc: (bcc: Wan Juang Foo/ece/staff/npnet) owner-emc-pstc@majordo Subject: Decoupling - capacitor values (ESR, layout, CM filter) mo.ieee.org 04/20/02 05:39 AM Please respond to Cortland Richmond Cortland Richmond 72146@compuserve.com 04/20/02 05:39 AM Amund, You do not HAVE to be in a chamber to keep working on this. Since there is only one Vcc pin (which processor IS this? - be SURE there is only one Vcc pin; you may have an unfiltered, unconnected Vcc pin or two) you are limited in how many capacitors you can attach to it. This doesn't matter; if you filtered power, and got 7 dB, you've done there what CAN be done there and should look look at other things. Troubleshoot the board. I too have thrown solutions at problems without knowing what exactly was wrong. It takes too long and costs too much. Find the source. A small 'scope probe, with the end taped over, makes a serviceable E-field probe. snip --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: High Temp Caps and Inductors
A lot depends on the frequency you are operating at. A low frequency filter may use electrolytic caps, for example, and there is no way you will ever get 180°C electrolytics! Most of the common non-electrolytic capacitor dielectrics won't have a hope of operating at this temperature either. Maybe if you clarify the type and frequency of the filter... You are also at or above the melting point of normal tin-lead solder, so that is going to make things just a tad difficult. Bob Wilson TIR Systems Ltd. Vancouver. -Original Message- From: lfresea...@aol.com [mailto:lfresea...@aol.com] Sent: April 19, 2002 2:19 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: High Temp Caps and Inductors Hi all, I'm designing a filter that has to live and work with an Ambient temp of 180 C. Does anyone have suggestions as to component vendors that I could contact for parts? Thanks, Derek Walton. L F Research
