Re: Lightning Protection for PA System

2002-06-15 Thread Fred Townsend
Scott it sounds like you have a tiger by the tail in that you are in a 
particularly hot
lightning location.  Your efforts to date sound reasonable.  I will expand on a 
few
statements.

First, your system is a good deal like a telephone system and many of the 
techniques used in
telephony may help you.  You might like to check out the US Printing office for 
REA documents
relating to lightning protection.

For the 70 volt outputs I am thinking of using gas tubes to earth where the 
wires
enter the building supplemented by MOV, Tranzorb, or other devices near the
amplifier location. I welcome suggestions as to device types.

Tranzorbs are a very good product.  They also come in a wide range of voltages 
which make them
applicable to almost all applications.  They are fastest devices available and 
the only ones
that stand a chance of reacting to the leading edge of the current pulse.

MOVs are the heavy lifters but are generally too slow to offer much leading 
edge lightning
protection.  They are labeled transient protectors as opposed to lightning 
protectors for this
reason.

Gas protectors fall in the middle for speed and are only available for higher 
voltages.

All of these devices will fail in time if subjected to repeated lightning 
strikes.  Diodes
(Tranzorbs) fail shorted.  Gas tubes fail open.  MOVs may fail open or low 
resistance.

Ordinary silicon signal diodes can be used to protect microphone inputs.  Fast 
shockly power
diodes can be used too.  Remember the bigger the diode the slower it reacts.

All of the above components are network devices meaning they are not designed 
to absorb the
total energy of the lightning strike by themselves. They are designed to work 
in conjunction
with other components in the protection network.  The protection components, 
particularly
diodes, need to react with some resistance or inductance to limit current. The 
copper
resistance of the wire and transformers may be enough but adding a few ohms 
more, say 4.7
ohms, 1 or 2 watts, in series with each side of the line, will usually allow 
the diodes to
survive a direct hit.

Inductors and inductive resistors (wire wound) sound like a neat idea since 
inductance will
slow down the wave front and provide an impedance for the protection devices to 
react with.
In reality inductors do not survive well.  This is because magnetostrictive 
reaction,
particularly in solenoid wound resistor or inductors, can explosively shatter 
the coil form.
However, I have seen dual segment wound, toridal, common mode chokes 
successfully used.  The
ferrite cores do not shatter.

Good luck,

Fred Townsend


Scott Lacey wrote:

> To the group,
>
> I am seeking advice as to the best methods of protecting a Public Address 
> system
> against recurring lightning damage. The system uses several commercial PA
> amplifiers, each driving several speakers at indoor and outdoor locations. 
> There are
> also several locations where microphones can be plugged in. The longest 
> speaker
> wires may be up to 250 yards long. It is believed that the charge is being 
> coupled to
> the speaker wires where it then returns to ground at the amplifier location 
> within the
> building, destroying the solid state devices within the amplifier. A 
> technician has
> added fuses to all external microphone inputs and speaker outputs. While these
> have blown several times during storms without obvious damage to the 
> amplifiers it
> is my belief that fuses are generally too slow to protect semiconductor 
> devices. I am
> seeking advice as to surge suppression devices.
> System particulars are as follows:
>
> 1) The PA amplifiers have 70 volt outputs. All speakers are transformer 
> coupled.
>
> 2) All microphones use standard XLR connectors. They plug into metallic 
> conduit
> mounted jacks at locations inside and outside the building. The outside 
> microphones
> are unplugged during storms.
>
> 3) The amplifiers are located on the second floor of the building. Each 
> amplifier is
> dedicated to a set of speakers at one location. The amplifier driving the 
> longest wires
> is the one which most often has to be replaced.
>
> 4) The building is in a location known to be susceptible to lightning 
> activity. Electrical
> appliances have been destroyed on at least two occasions.
>
> 5) All protective grounding efforts to date have been made to the conduit. I 
> am
> recommending that this be supplemented by driven rods.
>
> It is pretty easy to buy commercial surge suppression devices for the ac 
> lines. I feel I
> need advice as to the best methods to protect the audio inputs and outputs.
>
> For the 70 volt outputs I am thinking of using gas tubes to earth where the 
> wires
> enter the building supplemented by MOV, Tranzorb, or other devices near the
> amplifier location. I welcome suggestions as to device types.
>
> For the microphone inputs I am thinking of using semiconductor transient 
> voltage
> suppressors near the amplifier. Again, any sugges

Re: Northeast Product Safety Society Meeting on Wednesday, June 26

2002-06-15 Thread EMCCOMPLY

May I join in on Leslie's request? My home is in Boulder Colorado and it is 
not practical for me to join you. My email address is shown below. 

Thank you.

Thurman J. (Bill) Ritenour
EMC Compliance LLC
4575 Sioux Drive #303
Boulder, CO 80303
303-543-7404
emccom...@aol.com

---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Ron Pickard:  emc-p...@hypercom.com
 Dave Heald:   davehe...@attbi.com

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/
Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"


Lightning Protection for PA System

2002-06-15 Thread Scott Lacey

To the group,

I am seeking advice as to the best methods of protecting a Public Address 
system 
against recurring lightning damage. The system uses several commercial PA 
amplifiers, each driving several speakers at indoor and outdoor locations. 
There are 
also several locations where microphones can be plugged in. The longest speaker 
wires may be up to 250 yards long. It is believed that the charge is being 
coupled to 
the speaker wires where it then returns to ground at the amplifier location 
within the 
building, destroying the solid state devices within the amplifier. A technician 
has 
added fuses to all external microphone inputs and speaker outputs. While these 
have blown several times during storms without obvious damage to the amplifiers 
it 
is my belief that fuses are generally too slow to protect semiconductor 
devices. I am 
seeking advice as to surge suppression devices.
System particulars are as follows:

1) The PA amplifiers have 70 volt outputs. All speakers are transformer coupled.

2) All microphones use standard XLR connectors. They plug into metallic conduit 
mounted jacks at locations inside and outside the building. The outside 
microphones 
are unplugged during storms.

3) The amplifiers are located on the second floor of the building. Each 
amplifier is 
dedicated to a set of speakers at one location. The amplifier driving the 
longest wires 
is the one which most often has to be replaced.

4) The building is in a location known to be susceptible to lightning activity. 
Electrical 
appliances have been destroyed on at least two occasions.

5) All protective grounding efforts to date have been made to the conduit. I am 
recommending that this be supplemented by driven rods.

It is pretty easy to buy commercial surge suppression devices for the ac lines. 
I feel I 
need advice as to the best methods to protect the audio inputs and outputs. 

For the 70 volt outputs I am thinking of using gas tubes to earth where the 
wires 
enter the building supplemented by MOV, Tranzorb, or other devices near the 
amplifier location. I welcome suggestions as to device types.

For the microphone inputs I am thinking of using semiconductor transient 
voltage 
suppressors near the amplifier. Again, any suggestions are welcome.

Thanks in advance for any advice and guidance.

Scott Lacey
sco...@world.std.com

---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Ron Pickard:  emc-p...@hypercom.com
 Dave Heald:   davehe...@attbi.com

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/
Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"