EMC Directive requirements for LINEAR power adapter
Group, I am not sure how I ended up caring so much for power adapters recently, but they just will not go away. Would you consider linear power adapter : 240V to 12V/1.5A consists of the transformer, bridge rectifier and capacitor to be EM active device? If it is not active, will it be safe to assume what it will be excluded from 89/336 directive based on EU guidelines? See http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/electr_equipment/emc/guides/chapfive.htm Thanks, Mark Gandler _ Watch free concerts with Pink, Rod Stewart, Oasis and more. Visit MSN Presents today. http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUS/2746??PS=47575 __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
IP testing per EN60529
This has to do with the IP 3X, and 4X ratings and tests. The testing is by way of 2.5mm rod or 1.0mm wire probes, which seems quite straight forward at first. But the probes are not meant to be used the way I'm used to. It's not about whether they can touch anything, it's about whether they can enter at all. This is pretty clear in the text and tables giving pass pass/fail criteria, and is made really obvious if you read the note under 13.3. That note says that for IP3X and 4X the requirements are meant to prevent spherical objects of 2.5mm or 1.0mm diameter that are capable of motion from entering the enclosure. So basically an indirect or tortuous entry path doesn't do the job and you have to limit the size of an opening somewhere along the path to less than the diameter of the probe. It's easy to get misled on that point, for a variety of reasons: - the probes have a defined length and a stop, neither of which comes into play with the shall not enter criteria, but their presence suggest the more typical ok to enter but not to touch hazardous parts criteria - some of the examples in Annex A can easily be misinterpreted - safety compliance people are used to criteria that allows the probe to enter but not touch things - the standard touches on pass/fail in several places and the additional letters and first numeral have requirements that overlap but are different I have seen products on the market and results from certification bodies that make it clear this is being misinterpreted. People are assuming it's ok for the probe to enter as long as adequate clearance is maintained to live parts, whirling blades, etc, when in fact it is not acceptable for the IP3X and 4X probes to enter the enclosure. So given what I am seeing as widespread mis-interpretation my question is, am I wrong? Are the labs and other products on the market right, and I'm misinterpreting the requirements? Thanks, Jim Eichner, P.Eng. Manager - Compliance Engineering Xantrex Technology Inc. e-mail: jim.eich...@xantrex.com web: www.xantrex.com Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: Energy Efficiency for Europe
John, The home page for EU End-use energy efficiency is here: http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/energyefficiency/index.htm and the EU Stand-by Initiative is here: http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/energyefficiency/index.htm EU Code of Conduct on Efficiency of External Power Supplies: http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/energyefficiency/index.htm Participating power supply manufacturers: http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/energyefficiency/html/s_b-ParticipantsCoC.htm have signed a voluntary code of conduct: http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/energyeffici ncy/pdf/Workshop_Nov.2004/PS%20meeting/ ode%20of%20Conduct%20for%20PS%20Version%202%2024%20November%202004.pdf In the audio/video area, EACEM (now EICTA) in 2000 executed a voluntary agreement to limit standby consumption. Their page on Sustainable Energy Europe is here: http://eicta.ntc.be/index.php?id=169 I will send you the document offline, as I can’t find a current weblink for it. Best regards, David David K. Bell Senior Compliance Engineer Boston Acoustics Inc. 300 Jubilee Drive Peabody, MA 01960-4030 Tel: 978-538-5177 Fax: 978-538-6226 Email: mailto:db...@bostona.com db...@bostona.com _ From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Tyra, John Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 5:06 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Energy Efficiency for Europe Hello everyone, With the current requirements in place for California and phased regulations coming into affect in Australia can anyone tell me or point to a website which tracks the European Union efforts in Energy Efficiency regulations?? Any information is appreciated Regards, John Tyra Manager Product Safety Bose Corporation The Mountain, MS-450 Framingham, MA 01701-9168 Phone: 508-766-1502 Fax: 508-766-1145 __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Energy Efficiency for Europe
In message b11802460b4f4b4e963b51adf2fae08b04c4a...@usmafrexmb02.bose.com, dated Tue, 20 Mar 2007, Tyra, John john_t...@bose.com writes: With the current requirements in place for California and phased regulations coming into affect in Australia can anyone tell me or point to a website which tracks the European Union efforts in Energy Efficiency regulations?? Any information is appreciated A Google search for 'energy efficiency Europe' provided a very large amount of information. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk There are benefits from being irrational - just ask the square root of 2. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
Energy Efficiency for Europe
Hello everyone, With the current requirements in place for California and phased regulations coming into affect in Australia can anyone tell me or point to a website which tracks the European Union efforts in Energy Efficiency regulations?? Any information is appreciated Regards, John Tyra Manager Product Safety Bose Corporation The Mountain, MS-450 Framingham, MA 01701-9168 Phone: 508-766-1502 Fax: 508-766-1145 __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: UL 94 class fire retardant materials
Perhaps you meant Yarruup ?? At one time, CSA had published an equivalency table for flame ratings. luck, Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of John Woodgate Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:32 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: UL 94 class fire retardant materials In message 460005e6.07b861c6.4e23.3...@mx.google.com, dated Wed, 21 Mar 2007, Scott Xe scott...@gmail.com writes: In the market, lots of UL 94 approved materials are readily available. Is there any way to find out if they meet the requirements of EN 60065/60950/60335 with such components? Ask the manufacturers? But my experience is that once they have UL94, they often don't bother about Yoorup. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk There are benefits from being irrational - just ask the square root of 2. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
Re: UL 94 class fire retardant materials
In message 460005e6.07b861c6.4e23.3...@mx.google.com, dated Wed, 21 Mar 2007, Scott Xe scott...@gmail.com writes: In the market, lots of UL 94 approved materials are readily available. Is there any way to find out if they meet the requirements of EN 60065/60950/60335 with such components? Ask the manufacturers? But my experience is that once they have UL94, they often don't bother about Yoorup. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk There are benefits from being irrational - just ask the square root of 2. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
Re: UL 94 class fire retardant materials
IEC 60950 references classifications that are basically identical to the UL 94 ratings. IEC 60335 allows you to either go off of the results of the glow wire test of IEC 60695-2-11 or the UL 94 flammability ratings. IEC 60695 includes tests and ratings almost identical to the UL tests of UL 94 and UL 746, but there are some differences. The Glow Wire Test is not the same as UL's Hot Wire Ignition (HWI) test. The results can't easily be correlated. Also, there are differences in the HB ratings. UL has a single rating for HB; either a material passes at a specified thickness or it does not. IEC 60695 has two tests. Materials thinner than 3 mm have a maximum burn rate of 75 mm/minute and they get an HB75 rating. Materials 3 mm or thicker are only allowed to burn at a rate of 40 mm/minute and get an HB40 rating. I regularly specify materials, but I have not done many flammability tests. I will leave it to the experts on this list to amend or correct my information. Ted Eckert American Power Conversion/MGE http://www.apc.com/ The items contained in this e-mail reflect the personal opinions of the writer and are only provided for the assistance of the reader. The writer is not speaking in an official capacity for APC, MGE or Schneider Electric. The speaker does not represent APC's, MGE's or Schneider Electric's official position on any matter. Scott Xe scott.xe@gmail.c omTo Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org cc Subject 03/20/2007 11:03 UL 94 class fire retardant AMmaterials In the market, lots of UL 94 approved materials are readily available. Is there any way to find out if they meet the requirements of EN 60065/60950/60335 with such components? Thanks and regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: UL 94 class fire retardant materials
Ted, The new UL standards have both the HB 75 and HB 40 ratings. From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of ted.eck...@apcc.com Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:20 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: UL 94 class fire retardant materials IEC 60950 references classifications that are basically identical to the UL 94 ratings. IEC 60335 allows you to either go off of the results of the glow wire test of IEC 60695-2-11 or the UL 94 flammability ratings. IEC 60695 includes tests and ratings almost identical to the UL tests of UL 94 and UL 746, but there are some differences. The Glow Wire Test is not the same as UL's Hot Wire Ignition (HWI) test. The results can't easily be correlated. Also, there are differences in the HB ratings. UL has a single rating for HB; either a material passes at a specified thickness or it does not. IEC 60695 has two tests. Materials thinner than 3 mm have a maximum burn rate of 75 mm/minute and they get an HB75 rating. Materials 3 mm or thicker are only allowed to burn at a rate of 40 mm/minute and get an HB40 rating. I regularly specify materials, but I have not done many flammability tests. I will leave it to the experts on this list to amend or correct my information. Ted Eckert American Power Conversion/MGE http://www.apc.com/ The items contained in this e-mail reflect the personal opinions of the writer and are only provided for the assistance of the reader. The writer is not speaking in an official capacity for APC, MGE or Schneider Electric. The speaker does not represent APC's, MGE's or Schneider Electric's official position on any matter. Scott Xe scott.xe@gmail.c om To Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org cc Subject 03/20/2007 11:03 UL 94 class fire retardant AMmaterials In the market, lots of UL 94 approved materials are readily available. Is there any way to find out if they meet the requirements of EN 60065/60950/60335 with such components? Thanks and regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
UL 94 class fire retardant materials
In the market, lots of UL 94 approved materials are readily available. Is there any way to find out if they meet the requirements of EN 60065/60950/60335 with such components? Thanks and regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: Ethernet emission - isolated metallic plate
What is the frequency at which the emissions are maximum? And how long is the cable? Dave Cuthbert Linear Technology NARTE Certified EMC Engineer From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Barker, Neil Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 1:51 AM To: 'kbalasubraman...@scmmicro.co.in'; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Ethernet emission - isolated metallic plate I am interested in your posting because I am in the middle of my first experience with Ethernet as well, so could very well be interested in your solution. However, I do not think that the effect of the isolated piece of metal is a mystery. Consider what is happening here; your cable is coupling into the plate, both inductively and capacitively, and different potentials will be established at different parts of the plate resulting in currents flowing within the plate. The energy that is circulating in this manner will be absorbed in the plate. I don't expect that it is significant enough to measure the temperature rise in the plate, but that is where it will finally end up. If you had access to one of those scanning measurement tables that are sometimes used for assessing printed wiring board emissions, you could probably plot the currents in the plate. This is similar to the way that a metal box will act as a shield without being grounded; absorption into the metal is retained within the metal by virtue of the impedance mismatch at the surfaces causing reflection within the metal rather than radiated emission from the surface. Best regards Neil R. Barker CEng MIET FSEE MIEEE Manager Quality Engineering e2v technologies (uk) ltd 106 Waterhouse Lane Chelmsford Essex CM1 2QU UK Tel: (+44) 1245 453616 Fax: (+44) 1245 453571 Mob: (+44) 7801 723735 P Please consider the environment before printing this email. From: kbalasubraman...@scmmicro.co.in [mailto:kbalasubraman...@scmmicro.co.in] Sent: 20 March 2007 04:40 To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Ethernet emission - isolated metallic plate Dear Experts, The emission from our ethernet device :- 1. Without the ethernet cable connected to our device the emission is well below the limit line. 2. With the ethernet cable just plugged into our device ethernet port (other end of the cable is left unconnected) emission is above the limits. 3. With the one end of the ethernet cable connected to our device and the other end connected to the laptop computer and 'ping' is continuously active the emission slightly increases. 4. Emission with UTP cable is higher than emission with STP cable. Most interestingly when we place a metallic plate (an MS plate of about 6 inches wide and 2 foot long) on the test table and the ethernet cable is placed on this metal plate, the emission got reduced drastically and now it is well within the limits. The metal plate is not having any connection with ground plane, it is just kept on the wooden test table. How this isolated metal piece is reducing the emission is really a mystery. Sincerely K.Balasubramanian Project Leader - Hardware. Sent by E2V TECHNOLOGIES PLC or a member of the E2V group of companies. A company registered in England and Wales. Company number: 04439718. Registered address: 106 Waterhouse Lane, Chelmsford, Essex, CM1 2QU, UK. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
RE: over-voltage (installation) category assignments
Permanently-connected equipment is automatically OVIII regardless of how far away from the service entrance? Seems odd to broad-stroke that categorization. How about a duplex outlet located adjacent to the service panel; is that OVII or OVIII? Should connections to roof-mounted PV panels be OVIII or OV IV? One standard assumes OV IV for that type of circuit; but I doubt that's fair. If it is fair, then shouldn't a television antenna connection also be treated as an OV IV circuit. Ralph McDiarmid, AScT Compliance Engineering Group Xantrex Technology Inc. From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Tyra, John Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 7:36 AM To: John Woodgate; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Electrolytic Capacitors in Primary Circuits Here is what the last OSM decisions I have state for both 60950 and 60065 for caps after a rectifier: Capacitors which are connected after a rectifier in a primary circuit of a switch mode power supply unit need not be separately approved. In a primary circuit before a rectifier there is installation category III for Permanently Connected equipment, therefore class X1 capacitors must be used. In a primary circuit before a rectifier there is installation category II for Pluggable equipment Type A and Pluggable equipment Type B, therefore minimum class X2 capacitors must be used. The use of a mains fuse, a mains filter or a varistor cannot be a method to reduce installation category. Secondary circuits are normally in installation category I when the primary is in installation category II. However, a floating secondary shall be subject to the requirements for primary circuit in table III unless separated from primary circuits by an earthed metal screen. Seems pretty clear to me but, since these are not legal modifications to the standard(s) in questions, it depends on the Agency you are dealing with as to whether they are willing to accept these decisions. I agree it would be better to have the standard amended for clarification or an official interpretation from TC108 but when you are in the middle of an Agency submittal there is not usually time for this so hopefully the Agency in question will consider the OSM decision and change their interpretation favorably... - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: Legal requirements for selling ac/dc power adapter in EU
When on a recent trip to the US I hired a car that had a 115V dashboard-mounted outlet. Not sure if any cars on the EU market offer a similar 230V outlet, but if they do you may also want to look at the Automotive EMC Directive, if you do not want to limit target market. This Directive has some additional tests and a requirement to use the services of a 'Technical Service' for a decision on whether or not the adapter performs an 'immunity related function'. For an ESA (electronic sub-assembly) such as a power adapter the answer should be no. In this case the LVD/EMCD conformity assessment procedures apply but a reference to Automotive EMC Directive and the standards applied should be referenced on the DoC. Brian McAuliffe From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Mark Schmidt Sent: 15 March 2007 13:31 To: Nick Williams; Mark Gandler Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Legal requirements for selling ac/dc power adapter in EU In addition to Nick's input you will soon need to consider Directive 2005/32/EC on the Eco-design Requirements for Energy-using Products (EuPs. Regards, Mark Schmidt From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Nick Williams Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 4:34 AM To: Mark Gandler Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Legal requirements for selling ac/dc power adapter in EU Neil Barker's reply is spot-on, but overlooks one specific aspect which is now also a legal requirement for any such product in the EU - it will also need to comply with the Restriction of Hazardous Substances (RoHS) and WEEE requirements. The WEEE requirements include a specific label. I would also observe that for a voltage adapter sold on its own, parts of EN 61558 may well be the most appropriate standard. As Neil has already said, the choice of standards is dependent on what the unit is used for. You should not automatically assume that EN 60950 is the correct standard just because that's what lots of other people do. Nick. At 22:05 -0600 14/3/07, Mark Gandler wrote: Dear Group, Legally speaking ONLY, is there any other LEGAL requirement, besides CE Mark, to sell power adapter (240AC/12VDC) in EU? Follow-up question: is where any part in LVD, which will require to obtain any type of certification for power adapter, such as TUV/GS Mark? Is where any other directive/standard, besides LVD/EN60950, required for power adapters, in order to get CE? Thanks, Mark Gandler - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: Ethernet emission - isolated metallic plate
Mr. Balasubramanian, Is it 10BaseT or 100BaseTX? Which emissions test is it failing? Radiated? I/O conducted? Ethernet TP is a 100-ohm transmission line. For a valid emissions test, each end of the cable should be terminated at 100 ohms per ANSI/IEEE 802.3n (ISO 8802). Cables radiate if unterminated (there is no transmission line without the termination). Obviously unterminated STP radiates less than unterminated UTP because of the shield. You can plug the other end of the cable into an Ethernet switch. I prefer to test emissions with the SWITCH turned on (to establish a 'link'), but CISPR 22 permits testing with a 'terminated cable', i.e. with SWITCH on or off. David From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of kbalasubraman...@scmmicro.co.in Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 12:40 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Ethernet emission - isolated metallic plate Dear Experts, The emission from our ethernet device :- 1. Without the ethernet cable connected to our device the emission is well below the limit line. 2. With the ethernet cable just plugged into our device ethernet port (other end of the cable is left unconnected) emission is above the limits. 3. With the one end of the ethernet cable connected to our device and the other end connected to the laptop computer and 'ping' is continuously active the emission slightly increases. 4. Emission with UTP cable is higher than emission with STP cable. Most interestingly when we place a metallic plate (an MS plate of about 6 inches wide and 2 foot long) on the test table and the ethernet cable is placed on this metal plate, the emission got reduced drastically and now it is well within the limits. The metal plate is not having any connection with ground plane, it is just kept on the wooden test table. How this isolated metal piece is reducing the emission is really a mystery. Sincerely K.Balasubramanian Project Leader - Hardware. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
Re: Ethernet emission - isolated metallic plate
In message of133fb7be.3bf2ff51-on652572a4.00152301-652572a4.0019b...@scmmicro.co.in , dated Tue, 20 Mar 2007, kbalasubraman...@scmmicro.co.in writes: The emission from our ethernet device :- 1. Without the ethernet cable connected to our device the emission is well below the limit line. 2. With the ethernet cable just plugged into our device ethernet port (other end of the cable is left unconnected) emission is above the limits. 3. With the one end of the ethernet cable connected to our device and the other end connected to the laptop computer and 'ping' is continuously active the emission slightly increases. 4. Emission with UTP cable is higher than emission with STP cable. All this seems quite normal for common-mode emission, where the source of emission is not a very low-impedance source. The shield of the STP probably has more capacitance to the surroundings, acting as 'ground' (strictly, the surrounding form paths back to the other terminal of the emission source; 'ground' is actually irrelevant), which is reducing the common-mode voltage. Most interestingly when we place a metallic plate (an MS plate of about 6 inches wide and 2 foot long) on the test table and the ethernet cable is placed on this metal plate, the emission got reduced drastically and now it is well within the limits. The metal plate is not having any connection with ground plane, it is just kept on the wooden test table. How this isolated metal piece is reducing the emission is really a mystery. The plate increases the capacitance to the surroundings. Putting the three wires to the Ethernet connector inside your device together through a big ferrite bead may cure the problem. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk There are benefits from being irrational - just ask the square root of 2. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: Ethernet emission - isolated metallic plate
I am interested in your posting because I am in the middle of my first experience with Ethernet as well, so could very well be interested in your solution. However, I do not think that the effect of the isolated piece of metal is a mystery. Consider what is happening here; your cable is coupling into the plate, both inductively and capacitively, and different potentials will be established at different parts of the plate resulting in currents flowing within the plate. The energy that is circulating in this manner will be absorbed in the plate. I don't expect that it is significant enough to measure the temperature rise in the plate, but that is where it will finally end up. If you had access to one of those scanning measurement tables that are sometimes used for assessing printed wiring board emissions, you could probably plot the currents in the plate. This is similar to the way that a metal box will act as a shield without being grounded; absorption into the metal is retained within the metal by virtue of the impedance mismatch at the surfaces causing reflection within the metal rather than radiated emission from the surface. Best regards Neil R. Barker CEng MIET FSEE MIEEE Manager Quality Engineering e2v technologies (uk) ltd 106 Waterhouse Lane Chelmsford Essex CM1 2QU UK Tel: (+44) 1245 453616 Fax: (+44) 1245 453571 Mob: (+44) 7801 723735 P Please consider the environment before printing this email. From: kbalasubraman...@scmmicro.co.in [mailto:kbalasubraman...@scmmicro.co.in] Sent: 20 March 2007 04:40 To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Ethernet emission - isolated metallic plate Dear Experts, The emission from our ethernet device :- 1. Without the ethernet cable connected to our device the emission is well below the limit line. 2. With the ethernet cable just plugged into our device ethernet port (other end of the cable is left unconnected) emission is above the limits. 3. With the one end of the ethernet cable connected to our device and the other end connected to the laptop computer and 'ping' is continuously active the emission slightly increases. 4. Emission with UTP cable is higher than emission with STP cable. Most interestingly when we place a metallic plate (an MS plate of about 6 inches wide and 2 foot long) on the test table and the ethernet cable is placed on this metal plate, the emission got reduced drastically and now it is well within the limits. The metal plate is not having any connection with ground plane, it is just kept on the wooden test table. How this isolated metal piece is reducing the emission is really a mystery. Sincerely K.Balasubramanian Project Leader - Hardware. Sent by E2V TECHNOLOGIES PLC or a member of the E2V group of companies. A company registered in England and Wales. Company number: 04439718. Registered address: 106 Waterhouse Lane, Chelmsford, Essex, CM1 2QU, UK. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
