Antenna Calibration
Dear Jonathan, Thank you very much for sharing. I have a 3m chamber. What is your or members' comment I should request three or ten meter calibration distance? My concern is: Section 5.1 of ANSI C63.5-2006 (two paragraphs excerpted below for convenience) states For either use, the measurement distance is 10 m, ... If calibration being conducted at three meter distance, are the antenna factors still the near free-space antenna factors? Could you please share how much antenna factor difference between three meter and ten meter distances? Best regards, Grace 5. Standard site method (30 MHz to 40 GHz) 5.1 General The Standard Site Method (SSM) (based solely on horizontally polarized measurements) provides antenna factor measurements from 30 MHz to 1000 MHz for both US domestic use and international use. The measurement method is the same in both cases. For either use, the measurement distance is 10 m, the transmitting antenna height is 2 m, and the receiving antenna search heights are from 1 m to 4 m. These dimensions are annotated in Table 2, which provides values for ED max and ide al site attenuation (SA). (Figure 1 provides the measurement geometries.) The SSM for determining antenna factors (Smith [B11]) requires a standard antenna calibration site. This procedure provides near free space antenna factors for biconical dipole, tuned dipole, log periodic dipole array, and linearly polarized hybrid array antennas. For biconical dipole antennas, corrections to free space shall be applied for product measurements and are provided in Annex G. Mutual coupling correction factors for tuned dipoles shall be applied and are provided in ANSI C63.4-2003. The near free-space antenna factors for the remainder of the listed antennas shall be used without further correction for emission measurements as specified in ANSI C63.4-2003. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Functional Safety and the LVD
Those systems are covered, but there’s nothing that excludes products. Take for example an RCD device. Clearly its function is safety-related. Why wouldn’t the 61508 series be relevant? Jim Eichner, P.Eng. Compliance Engineering Manager Xantrex Technology Inc. e-mail: jim.eich...@xantrex.com web: www.xantrex.com http://www.xantrex.com/ Any opinions expressed are those of my invisible friend. Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. From: David Clement [mailto:david.clem...@verizon.net] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 2:12 PM To: Jim Eichner; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Functional Safety and the LVD 61508 deals with electrical, electronic and program devices and systems that provide safety such as rail road signaling, safety shut down systems in power plants, machinery interlocks. It has several in depth sections on software that is used in systems that provide functional safety. I don't see it being called out as part of a product safety directive. Dave Clement From: Jim Eichner jim.eich...@xantrex.com To: emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 1:44:53 PM Subject: Functional Safety and the LVD A search of the latest list of standards under the LVD does not turn up any hits on EN61508, yet it would seem natural for this standard to be considered relevant under the LVD. I'm not looking for the added work that would imply, but I do need to know if it's coming. Any thoughts or inside knowledge if this is coming our way? Thanks, Jim Eichner, P.Eng. Compliance Engineering Manager Xantrex Technology Inc. e-mail: jim.eich...@xantrex.com web: www.xantrex.com Any opinions expressed are those of my invisible friend. Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Iraq Safety Approval Requirements
Hi Experts, does anybody knows if Iraqi “civil” safety requirements exist (Mandatory/non-mandatory? Is CB-scheme accepted? Approval required? CoC?)? Mit freundlichen Grüßen Yours sincerely Dipl.-Ing. Michael Loerzer Managing Director Regulatory Affairs Specialist michael.loer...@globalnorm.de mailto:michael.loer...@globalnorm.de Fon: +49 30 3229027-50, Direct Call: -51 Mobile: +49 170 3229027 Fax: +49 30 3229027-59 www.Globalnorm.de http://www.globalnorm.de/ Globalnorm GmbH, Sitz der Gesellschaft: Alt-Moabit 94, 10559 Berlin Geschaeftsfuehrer/Managing Director: Dipl.-Ing. Michael Loerzer Amtsgericht Berlin-Charlottenburg HRB 105204 B, USt-ID-Nummer: DE251654448 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Functional Safety and the LVD
If a standard shall be listed under LVD, it must be electrical safety related. I can’t see that 61508 should be LVD listed, since it deals with HW / SW functional safety. So you can sell a functional safety related product, CE mark it and not make any references to LVD. An example is a flame detector driven by 24VDC. But as an end user in offshore / marine market, it would have been a requirement that the flame detector was tested and verified according to 61508. Regards Amund Westin Oslo, Norway Fra: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] På vegne av Jim Eichner Sendt: 27. oktober 2008 16:14 Til: emc-p...@ieee.org Emne: RE: Functional Safety and the LVD Those systems are covered, but there’s nothing that excludes products. Take for example an RCD device. Clearly its function is safety-related. Why wouldn’t the 61508 series be relevant? Jim Eichner, P.Eng. Compliance Engineering Manager Xantrex Technology Inc. e-mail: jim.eich...@xantrex.com web: www.xantrex.com http://www.xantrex.com/ Any opinions expressed are those of my invisible friend. Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. From: David Clement [mailto:david.clem...@verizon.net] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 2:12 PM To: Jim Eichner; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Functional Safety and the LVD 61508 deals with electrical, electronic and program devices and systems that provide safety such as rail road signaling, safety shut down systems in power plants, machinery interlocks. It has several in depth sections on software that is used in systems that provide functional safety. I don't see it being called out as part of a product safety directive. Dave Clement From: Jim Eichner jim.eich...@xantrex.com To: emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 1:44:53 PM Subject: Functional Safety and the LVD A search of the latest list of standards under the LVD does not turn up any hits on EN61508, yet it would seem natural for this standard to be considered relevant under the LVD. I'm not looking for the added work that would imply, but I do need to know if it's coming. Any thoughts or inside knowledge if this is coming our way? Thanks, Jim Eichner, P.Eng. Compliance Engineering Manager Xantrex Technology Inc. e-mail: jim.eich...@xantrex.com web: www.xantrex.com Any opinions expressed are those of my invisible friend. Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com All
RE: Cell and Battery Designation in IEC 61960
Hello Grace, If it is a Lithium battery then it does require a (PS)E mark by November 10th what type of battery do you have? From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Grace Lin Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 2:05 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Cell and Battery Designation in IEC 61960 Thank you, Jody. Do you know if PSE mark is required per Japan for the battery? On 10/24/08, Leber Jody-G19980 jody.le...@motorola.com wrote: Grace, N5 represents the number of parallel connected cells indicating it belongs to the battery designation. Best Regards, Jody Leber Program Manager jody.le...@motorola.com http://www.motorola.com/producttesting Motorola Product Testing Services 1700 Belle Meade Court Lawrenceville, GA 30043 770.338.3581 P 404.387.1224 C 847.761.3145 F From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Grace Lin Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 10:21 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Cell and Battery Designation in IEC 61960 Dear Members, Can someone confirm the following Cell and battery designation under 5.1 of IEC 61960: 2003? Battery shall be designated with the following form: N 1 A1 A2 A3 N2 / N3 / N4 – N5 Cells shall be designated with the following form: A 1 A2 A3 N2 / N3 / N4 The Japanes JIS C8711: 2006 standard has the following designation: Battery shall be designated with the following form: A1 A2 A3 N2 / N3 / N4 Cells shall be designated with the following form: N1 A1 A2 A3 N2 / N3 / N4 –N5 Do I miss any amendment or correction to either standard? Thank you and look forward to your help. Best regards, Grace - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
NFPA 79 Section 9.1.4.1
Dear Experts, Can anyone please explain to me section 9.1.4.1 of NFPA 79? (see below) NFPA 79 9.1.4 Connection of Control Circuit Devices. 9.1.4.1 All operating coils of electromechanical magnetic devices and indicator lamps (or transformer primary windings for indicator lamps) shall be directly connected to the same side of the control circuit. All control circuit contacts shall be connected between the coil and the other side of the control circuit. A safety inspector is telling me the following circuit is in violation of the above requirements: 115VAC Heating Element wired with a solid state relay (for circuit on/off, not for temperature control) on the Neutral side of the heating element. There are several thermal switches on the Line side of the heating element. The relay is controlled by a 24 volt circuit and ground. There is a manual power switch that opens both sides of the line. If the relay failed in a short condition or if the neutral side of the heating element shorts to chassis ground , no hazard occurs because the temperature is controlled by two thermal switches. How would this circuit violate 9.1.4.1? The safety inspector is saying that this section of the standard mandates the solid state relay must be on the Line side of the heating element along with the thermal switches. Is he correct? Thank you for your help. The Other Brian _ LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Cell and Battery Designation in IEC 61960
Hi John, Thank you very much. We have several different types of batteries. Lithium battery is one of them. I believe the Japanese requirement starting November 20, 2008 is for the lithium battery. I assume the PSE mark required is the diamond one (not circle one). Please confirm. Best regards, Grace On 10/27/08, Tyra, John john_t...@bose.com wrote: Hello Grace, If it is a Lithium battery then it does require a (PS)E mark by November 10th what type of battery do you have? From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Grace Lin Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 2:05 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Cell and Battery Designation in IEC 61960 Thank you, Jody. Do you know if PSE mark is required per Japan for the battery? On 10/24/08, Leber Jody-G19980 jody.le...@motorola.com wrote: Grace, N5 represents the number of parallel connected cells indicating it belongs to the battery designation. Best Regards, Jody Leber Program Manager jody.le...@motorola.com http://www.motorola.com/producttesting Motorola Product Testing Services 1700 Belle Meade Court Lawrenceville, GA 30043 770.338.3581 P 404.387.1224 C 847.761.3145 F From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Grace Lin Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 10:21 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Cell and Battery Designation in IEC 61960 Dear Members, Can someone confirm the following Cell and battery designation under 5.1 of IEC 61960: 2003? Battery shall be designated with the following form: N 1 A1 A2 A3 N2 / N3 / N4 – N5 Cells shall be designated with the following form: A 1 A2 A3 N2 / N3 / N4 The Japanes JIS C8711: 2006 standard has the following designation: Battery shall be designated with the following form: A1 A2 A3 N2 / N3 / N4 Cells shall be designated with the following form: N1 A1 A2 A3 N2 / N3 / N4 –N5 Do I miss any amendment or correction to either standard? Thank you and look forward to your help. Best regards, Grace - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send
RE: Cell and Battery Designation in IEC 61960
Hello Grace, You are correct in that Lithium Batteries are now regulated in Japan and require the (PS)E circle mark not the PSE diamond mark. Here is a summary of what I know Japan's Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry (METI) has added Lithium batteries: into a list of regulated DENAN products. The new requirements for Lithium batteries will be implemented on November 20, 2008. Scope: Lithium batteries with its internal energy of 400Wh/L or higher are regulated by DENAN as Non-Specified Product (NSP). NSP requires a PSE Mark (PSE in a circle). Compliance with DENAN Technical Requirements Appendix 9 may be confirmed by a third party testing or manufacturer's own testing. Test reports (and/or certificates) may be required upon request from METI. Lithium batteries physically detached from an end product in a package are covered by DENAN. Replacement Lithium batteries are covered by DENAN. Exclusion: - Lithium batteries physically attached to an end product in a package are excluded. Replacement batteries would need to be compliant - Lithium batteries for automotive - Lithium batteries for medical equipment used in hospital or clinic - Lithium batteries for Industrial Machinery (for examples, commercial measuring instrument, commercial radio, portable terminals used by delivery companies, devices used for satellite or aerospace, equipment for police/fire department/self-defense military.) - Lithium batteries which are exported outside of Japan - Lithium batteries imported/manufactured before November 20, 2008 - Replacement batteries for end-products whose production would be completed before November 20, 2008. (My need special marking) Standards: - DENAN Technical Requirements Appendix 9: which are equivalent to JIS C8712 and C8714 - Compliance with Overcharge Test and Drop Test will be required after November 20, 2011. Here are links to the Appendix 9 translations http://www.meti.go.jp/policy/consumer/seian/denan/lithium/080703/law.pdf http://www.meti.go.jp/policy/consumer/s ian/denan/lithium/080703/cabinet_order.pdf http://www.meti.go.jp/policy/consumer/s ian/denan/lithium/080703/ministerial_ordinance.pdf http://www.meti.go.jp/policy/consumer/s ian/denan/lithium/080703/technical_requirements.pdf I am not sure about other types of batteries and would be interested if anyone has additional info on other chemistries. Hope this helps. Regards, John John Tyra Manager Product Safety Group Bose Corporation The Mountain, MS-450 Framingham, MA 01701-9168 phone: 508-766-1502 fax: 508-766-1145 From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Grace Lin Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:18 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Cell and Battery Designation in IEC 61960 Hi John, Thank you very much. We have several different types of batteries. Lithium battery is one of them. I believe the Japanese requirement starting November 20, 2008 is for the lithium battery. I assume the PSE mark required is the diamond one (not circle one). Please confirm. Best regards, Grace On 10/27/08, Tyra, John john_t...@bose.com wrote: Hello Grace, If it is a Lithium battery then it does require a (PS)E mark by November 10th what type of battery do you have? From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Grace Lin Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 2:05 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Cell and Battery Designation in IEC 61960 Thank you, Jody. Do you know if PSE mark is required per Japan for the battery? On 10/24/08, Leber Jody-G19980 jody.le...@motorola.com wrote: Grace, N5 represents the number of parallel connected cells indicating it belongs to the battery designation. Best Regards, Jody Leber Program Manager jody.le...@motorola.com http://www.motorola.com/producttesting Motorola Product Testing Services 1700 Belle Meade Court Lawrenceville, GA 30043 770.338.3581 P 404.387.1224 C 847.761.3145 F From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Grace Lin Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 10:21 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Cell and Battery Designation in IEC 61960 Dear Members, Can someone confirm the following Cell and battery designation under 5.1 of IEC 61960: 2003? Battery shall be designated with the following form: N 1 A1 A2 A3 N2 / N3 / N4 – N5 Cells shall be designated with the following form: A 1 A2 A3 N2 / N3 / N4 The Japanes JIS C8711: 2006 standard has the following designation: Battery shall be designated with the following form: A1 A2 A3 N2 / N3 / N4 Cells shall be designated with the following form: N1 A1 A2 A3 N2 / N3 / N4 –N5
RE: Cell and Battery Designation in IEC 61960
Hi Grace et al, The Japanese battery requirement and the pertinent November 20, 2008 information originate from METI’s Electrical Appliance and Material Safety Law and can be obtained at their website: http://www.meti.go.jp/english/policy/economy/consumer/pse/index.html. IHTH those needing this information. Best regards, Ron Pickard RPQ Consulting Glendale, AZ 85303 +623.512-3451 tel, +623.848-9033 fax rpick...@rpqconsulting.com www.rpqconsulting.com http://www.rpqconsulting.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/RonPickard From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Grace Lin Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:18 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Cell and Battery Designation in IEC 61960 Hi John, Thank you very much. We have several different types of batteries. Lithium battery is one of them. I believe the Japanese requirement starting November 20, 2008 is for the lithium battery. I assume the PSE mark required is the diamond one (not circle one). Please confirm. Best regards, Grace On 10/27/08, Tyra, John john_t...@bose.com wrote: Hello Grace, If it is a Lithium battery then it does require a (PS)E mark by November 10th what type of battery do you have? From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Grace Lin Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 2:05 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Cell and Battery Designation in IEC 61960 Thank you, Jody. Do you know if PSE mark is required per Japan for the battery? On 10/24/08, Leber Jody-G19980 jody.le...@motorola.com wrote: Grace, N5 represents the number of parallel connected cells indicating it belongs to the battery designation. Best Regards, Jody Leber Program Manager jody.le...@motorola.com http://www.motorola.com/producttesting Motorola Product Testing Services 1700 Belle Meade Court Lawrenceville, GA 30043 770.338.3581 P 404.387.1224 C 847.761.3145 F From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Grace Lin Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 10:21 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Cell and Battery Designation in IEC 61960 Dear Members, Can someone confirm the following Cell and battery designation under 5.1 of IEC 61960: 2003? Battery shall be designated with the following form: N 1 A1 A2 A3 N2 / N3 / N4 – N5 Cells shall be designated with the following form: A 1 A2 A3 N2 / N3 / N4 The Japanes JIS C8711: 2006 standard has the following designation: Battery shall be designated with the following form: A1 A2 A3 N2 / N3 / N4 Cells shall be designated with the following form: N1 A1 A2 A3 N2 / N3 / N4 –N5 Do I miss any amendment or correction to either standard? Thank you and look forward to your help. Best regards, Grace - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list
Re: NFPA 79 Section 9.1.4.1
It's a little hard to comment w/o a schematic. But note that under NFPA 79 there are two classes of circuits. It seems like your heater circuit may be considered a power circuit. Therefore, the inspector could be commenting on the circuit which controls the coil of the 24V solid state relay. Note also that even though you have two thermal switches on the line side of the heater coil it's not clear whether they are fail-safe. Redundancy doesn't add much value if the failure of the switch is not revealed somehow. Regards, Lauren Crane Product Regulatory Analyst Corporate Product EHS Lead Applied Materials Inc. - External Use - Save paper and trees! Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. Kunde, Brian brian_ku...@lecotc.com Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org 10/27/2008 11:53 AM To emc-p...@ieee.org cc Subject NFPA 79 Section 9.1.4.1 Dear Experts, Can anyone please explain to me section 9.1.4.1 of NFPA 79? (see below) NFPA 79 9.1.4 Connection of Control Circuit Devices. 9.1.4.1 All operating coils of electromechanical magnetic devices and indicator lamps (or transformer primary windings for indicator lamps) shall be directly connected to the same side of the control circuit. All control circuit contacts shall be connected between the coil and the other side of the control circuit. A safety inspector is telling me the following circuit is in violation of the above requirements: 115VAC Heating Element wired with a solid state relay (for circuit on/off, not for temperature control) on the Neutral side of the heating element. There are several thermal switches on the Line side of the heating element. The relay is controlled by a 24 volt circuit and ground. There is a manual power switch that opens both sides of the line. If the relay failed in a short condition or if the neutral side of the heating element shorts to chassis ground , no hazard occurs because the temperature is controlled by two thermal switches. How would this circuit violate 9.1.4.1? The safety inspector is saying that this section of the standard mandates the solid state relay must be on the Line side of the heating element along with the thermal switches. Is he correct? Thank you for your help. The Other Brian _ LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Functional Safety and the LVD
61508 is not a product standard. It relates to systems that provide System Safety where a portion of the system is electrical, electronic, or programmable. System Safety as a discipline looks at the severity of hazards that are present if something fails to perform as designed, the likely hood of it occurring, assessing if the risk is acceptable and if its not take mitigation steps to reduce the risk. 61508 provides special considerations when the mitigation is provided by Electrical, Electronic or Programmable. For example; It has guidance on the software development rigor necessary for the different Safety Integrity Levels. An RCD device provides a safety function for sure but a single device is explicitly not covered. Below is an excerpt from the standard scope. does not cover E/E/PE syst ems where – a single E/E/PE system is capable of providing the necessary risk reduction, Dave Clement From: Jim Eichner jim.eich...@xantrex.com To: emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 11:14:06 AM Subject: RE: Functional Safety and the LVD Those systems are covered, but there’s nothing that excludes products. Take for example an RCD device. Clearly its function is safety-related. Why wouldn’t the 61508 series be relevant? Jim Eichn er, P.Eng. Compliance Engineering Manager Xantrex Technology Inc. e-mail: jim.eich...@xantrex.com web: www.xantrex.com http://www.xantrex.com/ Any opinions expressed are those of my invisible friend. Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. From: David Clement [mailto:david.clem...@verizon.net] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 2:12 PM To: Jim Eichner; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Functional Safety and the LVD 61508 deals with electrical, electronic and program devices and systems that provide safety such as rail road signaling, safety shut down systems in power plants, machinery interlocks. It has several in depth sections on software that is used in systems that provide functional safety. I don't see it being called out as part of a product safety directive. Dave Clement From: Jim Eichner jim.eich...@xantrex.com To: emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 1:44:53 PM Subject: Functional Safety and the LVD A search of the latest lis t of standards under the LVD does not turn up any hits on EN61508, yet it would seem natural for this standard to be considered relevant under the LVD. I'm not looking for the added work that would imply, but I do need to know if it's coming. Any thoughts or inside knowledge if this is coming our way? Thanks, Jim Eichner, P.Eng. Compliance Engineering Manager Xantrex Technology Inc. e-mail: jim.eich...@xantrex.com web: www.xantrex.com Any opinions expressed are those of my invisible friend. Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosur e or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For he lp, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/e mc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the
