[PSES] Northeast Product Safety Society Meeting Tomorrow, April 25th
All, There will be a Northeast Product Safety Society / CNEC Product Safety Engineering Society meeting tomorrow, April 25th, at the Holiday Inn, Boxborough MA. A social hour with light refreshments will begin at 7:00 PM and the technical meeting will start at 7:30 PM. Steve Brody will be presenting an update on the environmental issues facing electronic and electrical product manufacturers particularly the EU's recast of their RoHS and WEEE Directives. If you will be in the area, please feel free to join us as advanced notice or membership in NPSS or IEEE PSES is not required. Steve Brody will provide an update on the environmental issues facing electronic and electrical product manufacturers currently or planning to export US made products to the European Union and China, as well as the current status on the use of Conflict Minerals in the US, and environmental requirements in other geographic locations. The primary focus will be the EU's recast of their RoHS and WEEE Directives and the impact they will have on all EE products, including those in Category 8 (Medical), Category 9 (Measurement and Control Equipment), and large-scale stationary industrial tools (LSIT). If your products were exempt or out of scope for the original RoHS and WEEE Directives, they may not be under the recasts - and this will include spare parts, parts being sent back for failure analysis, trade-in, warranty repair, etc.. China RoHS has recently added items to their Catalog, and the requirement for labeling continues even for products that are not in scope of the Catalog. The presentation will be followed by an open QA session. Formerly Sr. Manager of Product EHS at Brooks Automation, Steve is currently owner and manager of Product EHS Consulting LLC, a consulting firm specializing in product relate environmental, health. and safety issues. Steve has been actively working in the regulatory and compliance field for almost 40 years and is currently president of the Northeast Product Safety Society and chair of the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society's Boston ]and New England] Chapter. Steve is also a member of SEMI's EHS Committee and participates on the WEEE/RoHS, REACH, and Conflict Minerals Working Groups. He can be reached at stev...@productehsconsulting.com and the website is www.PreoductEHSConsulting.com. If you or anyone you know would like to give a product safety technical presentation, please contact Tony Nikolassy by email at a.nikola...@yahoo.com. A technical presentation should be 45 to 60 minutes in duration and be related to product safety. Although the presentation may reference your company and it’s services, the presentation must not be simply company advertising. We would also appreciate any slides or handout materials be made available for posting on the NPSS web site. Releasing presentation materials for posting is desired but not a requirement to make a presentation. The 2012 NPSS meeting schedule is available on the NPSS website at http://www.nepss.net/calendar.html. Further information about the Northeast Product Safety Society and how to become a member is available at http://www.nepss.net. You can also contact one of the NPSS officers via links on the NPSS web site. Directions: From Route 495 North or South, take Exit 28 to Route 111 East Turn right onto Adams Place (approximately 500 feet from Route 495 North) The Holiday Inn is the last building on the left. Regards, Matt Campanella NPSS Secretary (603) 437-7140 matt.campane...@att.net - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] SRD in Brasil
Dear members, Do you know if Short Range Devices in Brazil are allowed using 433 MHz? And IF, what are the limitation on transmitted power/field strength, and duty cycle (if limited)? Or does Brazil follow US and normally use 915 MHz frequency range for SRD? Regards, and thanks in advance for any input Niels Hougaard Niels Hougaard Bolls ApS Ved Gadekæret 11F DK-3660 Stenløse Denmark T: +45 48 18 35 66 F: +45 48 18 35 30 mailto:n...@bolls.dk n...@bolls.dk http://www.bolls.dk/ www.bolls.dk - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Safety cost and ESD
This is a classic test problem. I've seen this several times. For this setup, there is no place for the charge to dissipate between zaps. So, how to discharge between zaps? The easy answer is to briefly connect a strap from apparatus to ground. But that casues lots of problems, including false failures. The reason? The discharge created when using a zero Ohm strap is uncontrolled. If you remove the bleed resistor, then the discharge is not bleeding slowly, it becomes another form of an ESD discharge. The problem is that the waveform will not be representative of the human-body-model. Designers of ESD equipment go to a lof trouble designing those ESD guns. They must conform to an exact waveshape. But the zero-Ohm ground strap has none of the circuit elements to shape the curve. So there is a likelyhood of a faster rise time, more ringing, etc. All things that no longer represent the HBM.If ths waveshape causes upset in the appratus it cannot be considered a failure since the waveform is not HBM. Check with your customer on how they are testing. If the appratus survives the zap from the gun, but is upset when they discharge with the strap, then you have the asnwer. The easy solution for Test is to place the bleed resistor back into the discharge strap and see if the appratus survives. The zero Ohm ground strap is not a real-world HBM scenario, and certainly not in conformance with EN61000-4-2 or any of the HBM standards. On the other hand, if your product is not subject to HBM, or your product needs testing to a user-scenario that includes a strap discharge, then that is a perfectly good test. // Patrick Different question about ESD. I have a component we tested on the normal 55024 directed ESD table for a table top mounted device. Worked fine, problem is that the customer places this on a large metallic roll around pedestal on rubber wheels. When they send it to a lab and test it this way there is a problem. I don't have the pedestal so I'm trying to simulate with my table and removing the 1 mohm bleeder resistor. Between discharges to the table, I ground a braided strap attached to the table top to my reference plane below. I get very similar results then. What should the braid really look like - should it just be a short, should it have some bleed resistance in it. I chose none since the discharge is going to be people touching the pedestal or other furniture that is grounded. What does the standard say about the VCP and HCP? Gary McInturff Reliability/Compliance Engineer // Patrick From: McInturff, Gary [mailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com] Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 12:37 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Safety cost and ESD Given the implementation differences between US/Canada(?) and EU on the medical 60601-1 standards. EU the June, US June 2013. How are folks handling new products being introduced now or in the very near future? Just got a quote back and the US certifier wants to charge me twice once for the 2nd edition and then to transition to the 3rd edition. I anyone else running aground on this. Seems like this should be happening on both sides of the pond - since a CB report to 3rd edition would run into the second edition enforcement in the US (and maybe Canada - I don't know their implementation date). To be fair - I get good service once I get past the sticker shock and don't have any complaints from that standpoint. In fact I enjoy the engineering staff I work with. Different question about ESD. I have a component we tested on the normal 55024 directed ESD table for a table top mounted device. Worked fine, problem is that the customer places this on a large metallic roll around pedestal on rubber wheels. When they send it to a lab and test it this way there is a problem. I don't have the pedestal so I'm trying to simulate with my table and removing the 1 mohm bleeder resistor. Between discharges to the table, I ground a braided strap attached to the table top to my reference plane below. I get very similar results then. What should the braid really look like - should it just be a short, should it have some bleed resistance in it. I chose none since the discharge is going to be people touching the pedestal or other furniture that is grounded. What does the standard say about the VCP and HCP? Gary McInturff Reliability/Compliance Engineer Esterline Interface Technologies Featuring ADVANCED INPUT, MEMTRON, and LRE MEDICAL products 600 W. Wilbur Avenue Coeur d'Alene, ID 83815-9496 Office:208-635-8306 Cell: 509 868 2279 Toll Free: 800-444-5923 X 1238 gary.mcintu...@esterline.com mailto:brian.s...@esterline.com www.esterline.com/interfacetechnologies http://www.esterline.com/advancedinput Technology, Innovation, Performance... -
Re: [PSES] Safety cost and ESD
For automotive stuff (ISO10605), I have to be careful about bleeding charge after each iteration because test level = 25kV. I use a 470k Resistor attached in series with a short braid that is screwed into the ref plane, and touch the UUT. The strap is used for discharge only and is not attached during testing. I have seen the commercial CISPR25 labs do similar. I have not seen the discharge create additional problems - perhaps I have just been lucky. Opinions whether this is a 'respectable' test technique? Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Conway, Patrick Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:53 PM To: McInturff, Gary; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [PSES] Safety cost and ESD This is a classic test problem. I've seen this several times. For this setup, there is no place for the charge to dissipate between zaps. So, how to discharge between zaps? The easy answer is to briefly connect a strap from apparatus to ground. But that casues lots of problems, including false failures. The reason? The discharge created when using a zero Ohm strap is uncontrolled. If you remove the bleed resistor, then the discharge is not bleeding slowly, it becomes another form of an ESD discharge. The problem is that the waveform will not be representative of the human-body-model. Designers of ESD equipment go to a lof trouble designing those ESD guns. They must conform to an exact waveshape. But the zero-Ohm ground strap has none of the circuit elements to shape the curve. So there is a likelyhood of a faster rise time, more ringing, etc. All things that no longer represent the HBM.If ths waveshape causes upset in the appratus it cannot be considered a failure since the waveform is not HBM. Check with your customer on how they are testing. If the appratus survives the zap from the gun, but is upset when they discharge with the strap, then you have the asnwer. The easy solution for Test is to place the bleed resistor back into the discharge strap and see if the appratus survives. The zero Ohm ground strap is not a real-world HBM scenario, and certainly not in conformance with EN61000-4-2 or any of the HBM standards. On the other hand, if your product is not subject to HBM, or your product needs testing to a user-scenario that includes a strap discharge, then that is a perfectly good test. // Patrick Different question about ESD. I have a component we tested on the normal 55024 directed ESD table for a table top mounted device. Worked fine, problem is that the customer places this on a large metallic roll around pedestal on rubber wheels. When they send it to a lab and test it this way there is a problem. I don't have the pedestal so I'm trying to simulate with my table and removing the 1 mohm bleeder resistor. Between discharges to the table, I ground a braided strap attached to the table top to my reference plane below. I get very similar results then. What should the braid really look like - should it just be a short, should it have some bleed resistance in it. I chose none since the discharge is going to be people touching the pedestal or other furniture that is grounded. What does the standard say about the VCP and HCP? Gary McInturff Reliability/Compliance Engineer // Patrick From: McInturff, Gary [mailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com] Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 12:37 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Safety cost and ESD Given the implementation differences between US/Canada(?) and EU on the medical 60601-1 standards. EU the June, US June 2013. How are folks handling new products being introduced now or in the very near future? Just got a quote back and the US certifier wants to charge me twice once for the 2nd edition and then to transition to the 3rd edition. I anyone else running aground on this. Seems like this should be happening on both sides of the pond - since a CB report to 3rd edition would run into the second edition enforcement in the US (and maybe Canada - I don't know their implementation date). To be fair - I get good service once I get past the sticker shock and don't have any complaints from that standpoint. In fact I enjoy the engineering staff I work with. Different question about ESD. I have a component we tested on the normal 55024 directed ESD table for a table top mounted device. Worked fine, problem is that the customer places this on a large metallic roll around pedestal on rubber wheels. When they send it to a lab and test it this way there is a problem. I don't have the pedestal so I'm trying to simulate with my table and removing the 1 mohm bleeder resistor. Between discharges to the table, I ground a braided strap attached to the table top to my reference plane below. I get very similar results then. What should the braid really look like - should it just be a short, should it have some bleed resistance in
[PSES] lab for impulse test
Looking for a southern california lab that can do impulse test per IEEEC57.12.01/IEC60076 on a reactor coil with 1100Vac rated working voltage. thanks much, Brian - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Safety cost and ESD
Brian, In a prior life we had several products that were sensitive to charge build-up. When they asked me about the problem I showed them where the ESD standard allows discharging between hits. We used the same sort of process - 470k resistor in series with the ground braid attached to the HCP. I once saw a brush with a ground strap (with the resistors in it) used for this sort of thing. Never have been able to source one though. Scott On 4/24/2012 8:04 PM, Brian Oconnell wrote: For automotive stuff (ISO10605), I have to be careful about bleeding charge after each iteration because test level = 25kV. I use a 470k Resistor attached in series with a short braid that is screwed into the ref plane, and touch the UUT. The strap is used for discharge only and is not attached during testing. I have seen the commercial CISPR25 labs do similar. I have not seen the discharge create additional problems - perhaps I have just been lucky. Opinions whether this is a 'respectable' test technique? Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Conway, Patrick Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:53 PM To: McInturff, Gary; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [PSES] Safety cost and ESD This is a classic test problem. I've seen this several times. For this setup, there is no place for the charge to dissipate between zaps. So, how to discharge between zaps? The easy answer is to briefly connect a strap from apparatus to ground. But that casues lots of problems, including false failures. The reason? The discharge created when using a zero Ohm strap is uncontrolled. If you remove the bleed resistor, then the discharge is not bleeding slowly, it becomes another form of an ESD discharge. The problem is that the waveform will not be representative of the human-body-model. Designers of ESD equipment go to a lof trouble designing those ESD guns. They must conform to an exact waveshape. But the zero-Ohm ground strap has none of the circuit elements to shape the curve. So there is a likelyhood of a faster rise time, more ringing, etc. All things that no longer represent the HBM.If ths waveshape causes upset in the appratus it cannot be considered a failure since the waveform is not HBM. Check with your customer on how they are testing. If the appratus survives the zap from the gun, but is upset when they discharge with the strap, then you have the asnwer. The easy solution for Test is to place the bleed resistor back into the discharge strap and see if the appratus survives. The zero Ohm ground strap is not a real-world HBM scenario, and certainly not in conformance with EN61000-4-2 or any of the HBM standards. On the other hand, if your product is not subject to HBM, or your product needs testing to a user-scenario that includes a strap discharge, then that is a perfectly good test. // Patrick Different question about ESD. I have a component we tested on the normal 55024 directed ESD table for a table top mounted device. Worked fine, problem is that the customer places this on a large metallic roll around pedestal on rubber wheels. When they send it to a lab and test it this way there is a problem. I don't have the pedestal so I'm trying to simulate with my table and removing the 1 mohm bleeder resistor. Between discharges to the table, I ground a braided strap attached to the table top to my reference plane below. I get very similar results then. What should the braid really look like - should it just be a short, should it have some bleed resistance in it. I chose none since the discharge is going to be people touching the pedestal or other furniture that is grounded. What does the standard say about the VCP and HCP? Gary McInturff Reliability/Compliance Engineer // Patrick From: McInturff, Gary [mailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com] Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 12:37 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Safety cost and ESD Given the implementation differences between US/Canada(?) and EU on the medical 60601-1 standards. EU the June, US June 2013. How are folks handling new products being introduced now or in the very near future? Just got a quote back and the US certifier wants to charge me twice once for the 2nd edition and then to transition to the 3rd edition. I anyone else running aground on this. Seems like this should be happening on both sides of the pond - since a CB report to 3rd edition would run into the second edition enforcement in the US (and maybe Canada - I don't know their implementation date). To be fair - I get good service once I get past the sticker shock and don't have any complaints from that standpoint. In fact I enjoy the engineering staff I work with. Different question about ESD. I have a component we tested on the normal 55024 directed ESD table for a table top mounted device. Worked fine, problem is that the customer places this on a large metallic
Re: [PSES] Safety cost and ESD
There are some carbon brushes out there designed for removing static from vinyl records which should do a very gentle job of bleeding down the charge, but the best cheap solution I've used is a copper scrubbing pad (lots of contact edges) in series with a 470k resistor. A touch with a finger does pretty well if you don't mind the stimulus! Brent DeWitt Milford, MA -Original Message- From: Scott Douglas [mailto:sdoug...@radiusnorth.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 9:49 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Safety cost and ESD Brian, In a prior life we had several products that were sensitive to charge build-up. When they asked me about the problem I showed them where the ESD standard allows discharging between hits. We used the same sort of process - 470k resistor in series with the ground braid attached to the HCP. I once saw a brush with a ground strap (with the resistors in it) used for this sort of thing. Never have been able to source one though. Scott On 4/24/2012 8:04 PM, Brian Oconnell wrote: For automotive stuff (ISO10605), I have to be careful about bleeding charge after each iteration because test level = 25kV. I use a 470k Resistor attached in series with a short braid that is screwed into the ref plane, and touch the UUT. The strap is used for discharge only and is not attached during testing. I have seen the commercial CISPR25 labs do similar. I have not seen the discharge create additional problems - perhaps I have just been lucky. Opinions whether this is a 'respectable' test technique? Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Conway, Patrick Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:53 PM To: McInturff, Gary; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [PSES] Safety cost and ESD This is a classic test problem. I've seen this several times. For this setup, there is no place for the charge to dissipate between zaps. So, how to discharge between zaps? The easy answer is to briefly connect a strap from apparatus to ground. But that casues lots of problems, including false failures. The reason? The discharge created when using a zero Ohm strap is uncontrolled. If you remove the bleed resistor, then the discharge is not bleeding slowly, it becomes another form of an ESD discharge. The problem is that the waveform will not be representative of the human-body-model. Designers of ESD equipment go to a lof trouble designing those ESD guns. They must conform to an exact waveshape. But the zero-Ohm ground strap has none of the circuit elements to shape the curve. So there is a likelyhood of a faster rise time, more ringing, etc. All things that no longer represent the HBM.If ths waveshape causes upset in the appratus it cannot be considered a failure since the waveform is not HBM. Check with your customer on how they are testing. If the appratus survives the zap from the gun, but is upset when they discharge with the strap, then you have the asnwer. The easy solution for Test is to place the bleed resistor back into the discharge strap and see if the appratus survives. The zero Ohm ground strap is not a real-world HBM scenario, and certainly not in conformance with EN61000-4-2 or any of the HBM standards. On the other hand, if your product is not subject to HBM, or your product needs testing to a user-scenario that includes a strap discharge, then that is a perfectly good test. // Patrick Different question about ESD. I have a component we tested on the normal 55024 directed ESD table for a table top mounted device. Worked fine, problem is that the customer places this on a large metallic roll around pedestal on rubber wheels. When they send it to a lab and test it this way there is a problem. I don't have the pedestal so I'm trying to simulate with my table and removing the 1 mohm bleeder resistor. Between discharges to the table, I ground a braided strap attached to the table top to my reference plane below. I get very similar results then. What should the braid really look like - should it just be a short, should it have some bleed resistance in it. I chose none since the discharge is going to be people touching the pedestal or other furniture that is grounded. What does the standard say about the VCP and HCP? Gary McInturff Reliability/Compliance Engineer // Patrick From: McInturff, Gary [mailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com] Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 12:37 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Safety cost and ESD Given the implementation differences between US/Canada(?) and EU on the medical 60601-1 standards. EU the June, US June 2013. How are folks handling new products being introduced now or in the very near future? Just got a quote back and the
