Re: [PSES] Buzzer loudness standard?
Try EN ISO 7731. Regards Nick. On 4 Sep 2012, at 05:34, Curt McNamara wrote: We have a customer product where they desire to reference an industry standard for the loudness of a buzzer. They started with OSHA 3dB over ambient: the instrument shall have an audible indicator detected 3dB above the maximum OSHA 8 hour day background limit @ 3 meters. However that doesn't really tell us how loud it needs to be. It is used in a clinic where animals are treated. Any suggestions? Thanks! Curt - - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Buzzer loudness standard?
Actually it does. OSHA 1910.95 tells you that the maximum time-weighted average (TWA) noise exposure for 8 hours is 90 dB(A). Based on the instrument standard you quoted, this means the buzzer must emit at least 93 dB(A). See 29 CR 1901.95, Table G-16, http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDSp_id=9735 Doug Nix On 4-September-2012, at 00:34, Curt McNamara wrote: We have a customer product where they desire to reference an industry standard for the loudness of a buzzer. They started with OSHA 3dB over ambient: the instrument shall have an audible indicator detected 3dB above the maximum OSHA 8 hour day background limit @ 3 meters. However that doesn't really tell us how loud it needs to be. It is used in a clinic where animals are treated. Any suggestions? Thanks! Curt - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Buzzer loudness standard?
Doug, doesn't OSHA have different levels for different environments - machinery rooms where they have to have ear protection can go up to 90, but offices would certainly be less than that. I think a quiet office is around 55 dBA Gary From: Doug Nix [mailto:d...@mac.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 8:42 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Buzzer loudness standard? Actually it does. OSHA 1910.95 tells you that the maximum time-weighted average (TWA) noise exposure for 8 hours is 90 dB(A). Based on the instrument standard you quoted, this means the buzzer must emit at least 93 dB(A). See 29 CR 1901.95, Table G-16, http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDSp_id=9735 Doug Nix On 4-September-2012, at 00:34, Curt McNamara wrote: We have a customer product where they desire to reference an industry standard for the loudness of a buzzer. They started with OSHA 3dB over ambient: the instrument shall have an audible indicator detected 3dB above the maximum OSHA 8 hour day background limit @ 3 meters. However that doesn't really tell us how loud it needs to be. It is used in a clinic where animals are treated. Any suggestions? Thanks! Curt - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] A curiosity question
All, I have noticed many IEC publications (in PDF) have a series of symbol embedded in varying locations on every page. They consist of string of punctuation marks. This sample string is somewhat randomized but it is representative. -``--`-`,,`,,,`,`,,`,`,,`--,,`-`,`,`,`,,`--- Is this some sort of encoding tied to the order number to validate the purchase of the document? Thanks, -doug Douglas E Powell doug...@gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] A curiosity question
I have notice that in some Standards documents and always assumed it was a way to track the source of the original (paid-for) document in case someone was selling illegal copies (PDFs or photocopies). -Ken On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Doug Powell doug...@gmail.com wrote: All, I have noticed many IEC publications (in PDF) have a series of symbol embedded in varying locations on every page. They consist of string of punctuation marks. This sample string is somewhat randomized but it is representative. -``--`-`,,`,,,`,`,,`,`,,`--,,`-`,`,`,`,,`--- Is this some sort of encoding tied to the order number to validate the purchase of the document? Thanks, -doug Douglas E Powell doug...@gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT; emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT;emcp...@radiusnorth.netGT; Mike Cantwell LT;mcantw...@ieee.orgGT; For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher LT;j.bac...@ieee.orgGT; David Heald LT;dhe...@gmail.comGT; - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] A curiosity question
It's secret code for We've got your money, but all you have is a bunch of bytes. ;-) Donald Borowski EMC Compliance Engineer Schweitzer Engineering Labs Pullman, Washington, USA From: Doug Powell doug...@gmail.com To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: 09/04/2012 09:44 AM Subject:A curiosity question Sent by:emc-p...@ieee.org All, I have noticed many IEC publications (in PDF) have a series of symbol embedded in varying locations on every page. They consist of string of punctuation marks. This sample string is somewhat randomized but it is representative. -``--`-`,,`,,,`,`,,`,`,,`--,,`-`,`,`,`,,`--- Is this some sort of encoding tied to the order number to validate the purchase of the document? Thanks, -doug Douglas E Powell doug...@gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] High input impedance high voltage Voltmeter
Hi Folks, I'm looking for options, besides BRANDENBURG, for a voltmeter to measure ESD tip voltage. Anyone care to share their experiences? Off list response is fine. Thanks, Derek Walton EMC Lab Services. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] A curiosity question
Good morning Mr. Phelps. Your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to take this PDF file, store it on a secured hard drive somewhere and never ever use it for any purpose, yet take the chance of violating one or more national or international copyright laws, to which several black SUVs will appear at your place of occupation, and to where several Men in Black to drag you out into the parking lot and do unspeakable things to you. This message will self destruct in 5 seconds .. .. .. .. .. [sizzle sounds].. -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of don_borow...@selinc.com Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 1:00 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: A curiosity question It's secret code for We've got your money, but all you have is a bunch of bytes. ;-) Donald Borowski EMC Compliance Engineer Schweitzer Engineering Labs Pullman, Washington, USA From: Doug Powell doug...@gmail.com To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: 09/04/2012 09:44 AM Subject:A curiosity question Sent by:emc-p...@ieee.org All, I have noticed many IEC publications (in PDF) have a series of symbol embedded in varying locations on every page. They consist of string of punctuation marks. This sample string is somewhat randomized but it is representative. -``--`-`,,`,,,`,`,,`,`,,`--,,`-`,`,`,`,,`--- Is this some sort of encoding tied to the order number to validate the purchase of the document? Thanks, -doug Douglas E Powell doug...@gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] A curiosity question
In message 64D32EE8B9CBDD44963ACB076A5F6ABB026279E0@Mailbox-Tech.lecotech.local, dated Tue, 4 Sep 2012, Kunde, Brian brian_ku...@lecotc.com writes: Good morning Mr. Phelps. Your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to take this PDF file, store it on a secured hard drive somewhere and never ever use it for any purpose, yet take the chance of violating one or more national or international copyright laws, to which several black SUVs will appear at your place of occupation, and to where several Men in Black to drag you out into the parking lot and do unspeakable things to you. This message will self destruct in 5 seconds .. .. .. .. .. [sizzle sounds].. All the IEC Central Office staff and the management are pussy-cats and would never do such things. They make me say that. (;-) -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk The longer it takes to make a point, the more obtuse it proves to be. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Buzzer loudness standard?
Gary, No. ...3dB above the maximum OSHA 8 hour day background limit @ 3 meters... See the table in 1910.95. These are the absolute limits. Other jurisdictions, like Ontario where I live, have lower limits. 85 dB(A) TWA 8h here. Also see the ACGIH tables in the TLV's and BEI's. You'll find corroborating data. The EU is considering lower limits. Having said that, if you know that your intended use environment is quieter than that, then feel free to spec it lower, BUT that will not conform to the text of the standard originally quoted. -- Doug Nix d...@mac.com “Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been.” - Albert Einstein On 4-September-2012, at 11:53, McInturff, Gary wrote: Doug, doesn’t OSHA have different levels for different environments – machinery rooms where they have to have ear protection can go up to 90, but offices would certainly be less than that. I think a “quiet office” is around 55 dBA Gary From: Doug Nix [mailto:d...@mac.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 8:42 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Buzzer loudness standard? Actually it does. OSHA 1910.95 tells you that the maximum time-weighted average (TWA) noise exposure for 8 hours is 90 dB(A). Based on the instrument standard you quoted, this means the buzzer must emit at least 93 dB(A). See 29 CR 1901.95, Table G-16, http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDSp_id=9735 Doug Nix On 4-September-2012, at 00:34, Curt McNamara wrote: We have a customer product where they desire to reference an industry standard for the loudness of a buzzer. They started with OSHA 3dB over ambient: the instrument shall have an audible indicator detected 3dB above the maximum OSHA 8 hour day background limit @ 3 meters. However that doesn't really tell us how loud it needs to be. It is used in a clinic where animals are treated. Any suggestions? Thanks! Curt - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All
Re: [PSES] Buzzer loudness standard?
I'd be surprised if 85dB(A) for 8 hours a day didn't result in profound hearing loss over an extended time. And what does @ 3m mean in a workplace; 3 metres from what? There may be more than one source of noise in a factory or workshop. ___ Ralph McDiarmid | Schneider Electric | Solar Business | CANADA | Regulatory Compliance Engineering From: Doug Nix d...@mac.com To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: 09/04/2012 02:21 PM Subject: Re: [PSES] Buzzer loudness standard? Gary, No. ...3dB above the maximum OSHA 8 hour day background limit @ 3 meters... See the table in 1910.95. These are the absolute limits. Other jurisdictions, like Ontario where I live, have lower limits. 85 dB(A) TWA 8h here. Also see the ACGIH tables in the TLV's and BEI's. You'll find corroborating data. The EU is considering lower limits. Having said that, if you know that your intended use environment is quieter than that, then feel free to spec it lower, BUT that will not conform to the text of the standard originally quoted. -- Doug Nix d...@mac.com “Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been.” - Albert Einstein On 4-September-2012, at 11:53, McInturff, Gary wrote: Doug, doesn’t OSHA have different levels for different environments – machinery rooms where they have to have ear protection can go up to 90, but offices would certainly be less than that. I think a “quiet office” is around 55 dBA Gary From: Doug Nix [mailto:d...@mac.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 8:42 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Buzzer loudness standard? Actually it does. OSHA 1910.95 tells you that the maximum time-weighted average (TWA) noise exposure for 8 hours is 90 dB(A). Based on the instrument standard you quoted, this means the buzzer must emit at least 93 dB(A). See 29 CR 1901.95, Table G-16, http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDSp_id=9735 Doug Nix On 4-September-2012, at 00:34, Curt McNamara wrote: We have a customer product where they desire to reference an industry standard for the loudness of a buzzer. They started with OSHA 3dB over ambient: the instrument shall have an audible indicator detected 3dB above the maximum OSHA 8 hour day background limit @ 3 meters. However that doesn't really tell us how loud it needs to be. It is used in a clinic where animals are treated. Any suggestions? Thanks! Curt - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For
Re: [PSES] Buzzer loudness standard?
Thanks Doug. Still a bit surprising that they use 90 or even 85 - particularly in a clinic. When that alarm goes off at that level the startle reaction means that somebody would be getting a scalpel through the spleen. I can see it on a loading dock (although we used to fill the forklifts backup beeper speaker with expanding foam to keep it quiet - college kids what-a-you going to do with them?) From a standards perspective this is the chart from ETSI 300 753 Equipment Engineering (EE) Notice that an office area - 55 dB, and the power room is 83dB. I would expect the clinic to be more like the office. Telecommunication equipment room (attended) bels 7.2 (72 dB) Business area ( 4 m from desk work locations) 6.8 bells Business area (4 m from desk work location) 6.3 bell Office (floor-standing equipment) 5.5 bels Office desktop equipment 5.0 bels Power room 8.3 bels. I think you want sound pressure rather than sound power. One being the measure of the maximum noise something can put out and the other being how loud it is at the position of interest. I think the analogy often used ins sound power is how hot a radiant heater CAN get, the other is how hot it is at a specific desk location relative to the location of the heater. They are measured completely different - for medical equipment we get requests for sound pressure occasionally expressed in dbA (a scale weighted for the response of the human ear) Try looking at Bruel and Khae http://www.bing.com/search?q=Bruel+%26+Kjaer+InstrumentsFORM=QSRE1 Site. They make sound measuring equipment and they may have some app notes about the subject and maybe a more appropriate standard reference. Equipment Engineering (EE); Acoustic noise emitted by telecommunications equipment From: Doug Nix [mailto:d...@mac.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 2:19 PM To: McInturff, Gary Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Buzzer loudness standard? Gary, No. ...3dB above the maximum OSHA 8 hour day background limit @ 3 meters... See the table in 1910.95. These are the absolute limits. Other jurisdictions, like Ontario where I live, have lower limits. 85 dB(A) TWA 8h here. Also see the ACGIH tables in the TLV's and BEI's. You'll find corroborating data. The EU is considering lower limits. Having said that, if you know that your intended use environment is quieter than that, then feel free to spec it lower, BUT that will not conform to the text of the standard originally quoted. -- Doug Nix d...@mac.commailto:d...@mac.com Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been. - Albert Einstein On 4-September-2012, at 11:53, McInturff, Gary wrote: Doug, doesn't OSHA have different levels for different environments - machinery rooms where they have to have ear protection can go up to 90, but offices would certainly be less than that. I think a quiet office is around 55 dBA Gary From: Doug Nix [mailto:d...@mac.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 8:42 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Buzzer loudness standard? Actually it does. OSHA 1910.95 tells you that the maximum time-weighted average (TWA) noise exposure for 8 hours is 90 dB(A). Based on the instrument standard you quoted, this means the buzzer must emit at least 93 dB(A). See 29 CR 1901.95, Table G-16, http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDSp_id=9735 Doug Nix On 4-September-2012, at 00:34, Curt McNamara wrote: We have a customer product where they desire to reference an industry standard for the loudness of a buzzer. They started with OSHA 3dB over ambient: the instrument shall have an audible indicator detected 3dB above the maximum OSHA 8 hour day background limit @ 3 meters. However that doesn't really tell us how loud it needs to be. It is used in a clinic where animals are treated. Any suggestions? Thanks! Curt - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com -
Re: [PSES] Buzzer loudness standard?
If the product is used in a clinic, I'd think IEC 60601-1-8 would be more appropriate. Patty Knudsen Product Safety Engineering 17095 Via del Campo San Diego, CA 92127 858-485-3748 Teradata Labs patricia.knud...@teradata.com mailto:patricia.knud...@teradata.com%0bteradata.comhttp://www.teradata.com/ Facebookhttps://www.facebook.com/Teradata The information contained in this message is private and confidential, is the property of Teradata Corporation, and is solely for the use of its intended recipient. If you are not the person to whom this e-mail is addressed, or if it has been sent to you in error, please notify the sender immediately. If you are not the intended recipient, please note that permission to use, copy, disclose, alter or distribute this message, and any attachments, is expressly denied. Please consider the environment before printing. From: McInturff, Gary [mailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 3:00 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Buzzer loudness standard? Thanks Doug. Still a bit surprising that they use 90 or even 85 - particularly in a clinic. When that alarm goes off at that level the startle reaction means that somebody would be getting a scalpel through the spleen. I can see it on a loading dock (although we used to fill the forklifts backup beeper speaker with expanding foam to keep it quiet - college kids what-a-you going to do with them?) From a standards perspective this is the chart from ETSI 300 753 Equipment Engineering (EE) Notice that an office area - 55 dB, and the power room is 83dB. I would expect the clinic to be more like the office. Telecommunication equipment room (attended) bels 7.2 (72 dB) Business area ( 4 m from desk work locations) 6.8 bells Business area (4 m from desk work location) 6.3 bell Office (floor-standing equipment) 5.5 bels Office desktop equipment 5.0 bels Power room 8.3 bels. I think you want sound pressure rather than sound power. One being the measure of the maximum noise something can put out and the other being how loud it is at the position of interest. I think the analogy often used ins sound power is how hot a radiant heater CAN get, the other is how hot it is at a specific desk location relative to the location of the heater. They are measured completely different - for medical equipment we get requests for sound pressure occasionally expressed in dbA (a scale weighted for the response of the human ear) Try looking at Bruel and Khae http://www.bing.com/search?q=Bruel+%26+Kjaer+InstrumentsFORM=QSRE1 Site. They make sound measuring equipment and they may have some app notes about the subject and maybe a more appropriate standard reference. Equipment Engineering (EE); Acoustic noise emitted by telecommunications equipment From: Doug Nix [mailto:d...@mac.com]mailto:[mailto:d...@mac.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 2:19 PM To: McInturff, Gary Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Buzzer loudness standard? Gary, No. ...3dB above the maximum OSHA 8 hour day background limit @ 3 meters... See the table in 1910.95. These are the absolute limits. Other jurisdictions, like Ontario where I live, have lower limits. 85 dB(A) TWA 8h here. Also see the ACGIH tables in the TLV's and BEI's. You'll find corroborating data. The EU is considering lower limits. Having said that, if you know that your intended use environment is quieter than that, then feel free to spec it lower, BUT that will not conform to the text of the standard originally quoted. -- Doug Nix d...@mac.commailto:d...@mac.com Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been. - Albert Einstein On 4-September-2012, at 11:53, McInturff, Gary wrote: Doug, doesn't OSHA have different levels for different environments - machinery rooms where they have to have ear protection can go up to 90, but offices would certainly be less than that. I think a quiet office is around 55 dBA Gary From: Doug Nix [mailto:d...@mac.com]mailto:[mailto:d...@mac.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 8:42 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Buzzer loudness standard? Actually it does. OSHA 1910.95 tells you that the maximum time-weighted average (TWA) noise exposure for 8 hours is 90 dB(A). Based on the instrument standard you quoted, this means the buzzer must emit at least 93 dB(A). See 29 CR 1901.95, Table G-16, http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDSp_id=9735 Doug Nix On 4-September-2012, at 00:34, Curt McNamara wrote: We have a customer product where they desire to reference an industry standard for the loudness of a buzzer. They started with OSHA 3dB over ambient: the instrument shall have an audible indicator detected 3dB above the maximum OSHA 8 hour day background limit @ 3 meters. However that doesn't really tell us
Re: [PSES] Buzzer loudness standard?
-1-8 only gives, in the guidance section, a range of 45-85 dBA as a SPL that is audible without being startling (to humans, at least). It specs testing at a meter. Bryce Stammerjohan | Thoratec Corporation | 6035 Stoneridge Drive, Pleasanton, CA 94588 v: 925.738.0042| f: 925.734.4083 | e: bstammerjo...@thoratec.commailto:bstammerjo...@thoratec.com www.thoratec.comhttp://www.thoratec.com/ From: Knudsen, Patricia [mailto:patricia.knud...@teradata.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 3:20 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Buzzer loudness standard? If the product is used in a clinic, I'd think IEC 60601-1-8 would be more appropriate. Patty Knudsen Product Safety Engineering 17095 Via del Campo San Diego, CA 92127 858-485-3748 Teradata Labs patricia.knud...@teradata.com mailto:patricia.knud...@teradata.com%0bteradata.comhttp://www.teradata.com/ Facebookhttps://www.facebook.com/Teradata The information contained in this message is private and confidential, is the property of Teradata Corporation, and is solely for the use of its intended recipient. If you are not the person to whom this e-mail is addressed, or if it has been sent to you in error, please notify the sender immediately. If you are not the intended recipient, please note that permission to use, copy, disclose, alter or distribute this message, and any attachments, is expressly denied. Please consider the environment before printing. From: McInturff, Gary [mailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 3:00 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Buzzer loudness standard? Thanks Doug. Still a bit surprising that they use 90 or even 85 - particularly in a clinic. When that alarm goes off at that level the startle reaction means that somebody would be getting a scalpel through the spleen. I can see it on a loading dock (although we used to fill the forklifts backup beeper speaker with expanding foam to keep it quiet - college kids what-a-you going to do with them?) From a standards perspective this is the chart from ETSI 300 753 Equipment Engineering (EE) Notice that an office area - 55 dB, and the power room is 83dB. I would expect the clinic to be more like the office. Telecommunication equipment room (attended) bels 7.2 (72 dB) Business area ( 4 m from desk work locations) 6.8 bells Business area (4 m from desk work location) 6.3 bell Office (floor-standing equipment) 5.5 bels Office desktop equipment 5.0 bels Power room 8.3 bels. I think you want sound pressure rather than sound power. One being the measure of the maximum noise something can put out and the other being how loud it is at the position of interest. I think the analogy often used ins sound power is how hot a radiant heater CAN get, the other is how hot it is at a specific desk location relative to the location of the heater. They are measured completely different - for medical equipment we get requests for sound pressure occasionally expressed in dbA (a scale weighted for the response of the human ear) Try looking at Bruel and Khae http://www.bing.com/search?q=Bruel+%26+Kjaer+InstrumentsFORM=QSRE1 Site. They make sound measuring equipment and they may have some app notes about the subject and maybe a more appropriate standard reference. Equipment Engineering (EE); Acoustic noise emitted by telecommunications equipment From: Doug Nix [mailto:d...@mac.com]mailto:[mailto:d...@mac.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 2:19 PM To: McInturff, Gary Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Buzzer loudness standard? Gary, No. ...3dB above the maximum OSHA 8 hour day background limit @ 3 meters... See the table in 1910.95. These are the absolute limits. Other jurisdictions, like Ontario where I live, have lower limits. 85 dB(A) TWA 8h here. Also see the ACGIH tables in the TLV's and BEI's. You'll find corroborating data. The EU is considering lower limits. Having said that, if you know that your intended use environment is quieter than that, then feel free to spec it lower, BUT that will not conform to the text of the standard originally quoted. -- Doug Nix d...@mac.commailto:d...@mac.com Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been. - Albert Einstein On 4-September-2012, at 11:53, McInturff, Gary wrote: Doug, doesn't OSHA have different levels for different environments - machinery rooms where they have to have ear protection can go up to 90, but offices would certainly be less than that. I think a quiet office is around 55 dBA Gary From: Doug Nix [mailto:d...@mac.com]mailto:[mailto:d...@mac.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 8:42 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Buzzer loudness standard? Actually it does. OSHA 1910.95 tells you that the maximum time-weighted average (TWA) noise
