[PSES] Test Fixture for Self
If a manufacturer builds a test fixture only to be used by the manufacturer (not commercially available), does the test fixture need to undergo EMC testing? If so, where is this called out? Can placing on the market and putting into service be different things? Thanks, Bob Heller St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651-778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Test Fixture for Self
Bob Quoting from the Guide for the EMC Directive 2004/108/EC, available from http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/electrical/documents/emc/guidance/index_en.htm 1.2.6 Products for own use Where an apparatus is manufactured for own use, placing on the market is considered to take place at the moment of putting into service; the obligation to comply with the Directive begins with first use. Your text fixture may well meet the requirements of a fixed installation: 4 FIXED INSTALLATIONS 4.1 Essential Requirements Fixed installation means a particular combination of several types of Apparatus and, where applicable, other devices, which are assembled, installed and intended to be used permanently at a predefined location Owing to their characteristics fixed installations are not subject to the need for free movement within the Community. Therefore, they are not subject to the requirements for CE marking, DoC or for formal EMC assessment before putting into service. However, fixed installations have to comply with the protection requirements and other specific requirements (Annex I of the Directive) which are applicable to them. It is, of course, in your own interest that the equipment operates as intended in the EM environment of you manufacturing facility and does not unduly affect the operation of other equipment. Regards Charlie From: Robert Heller [mailto:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: 19 September 2012 13:24 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Test Fixture for Self If a manufacturer builds a test fixture only to be used by the manufacturer (not commercially available), does the test fixture need to undergo EMC testing? If so, where is this called out? Can placing on the market and putting into service be different things? Thanks, Bob Heller St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651-778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Test Fixture for Self
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:40:30 +, Charlie Blackham char...@sulisconsultants.com wrote: Quoting from the Guide for the EMC Directive 2004/108/EC, available from http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/electrical/documents/emc/guidance/index_en.htm 1.2.6 Products for own use Where an apparatus is manufactured for own use, placing on the market is considered to take place at the moment of putting into service; the obligation to comply with the Directive begins with first use. Well, but EMCD itself says: `apparatus' means any finished appliance or combination thereof made commercially available as a single functional unit, intended for the end user and liable to generate elec- tromagnetic disturbance, or the performance of which is liable to be affected by such disturbance; Is such test fixtures made commercially available as a single functional unit? Regards, Tom -- Tomonori Sato vef00...@nifty.ne.jp URL: http://homepage3.nifty.com/tsato/ From: Robert Heller [mailto:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: 19 September 2012 13:24 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Test Fixture for Self If a manufacturer builds a test fixture only to be used by the manufacturer (not commercially available), does the test fixture need to undergo EMC testing? If so, where is this called out? Can placing on the market and putting into service be different things? - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Test Fixture for Self
Pragmatically, so far as EMC is concerned, the only thing likely to give rise to any enforcement interest is if you manage to make something that causes interference to other equipment outside the boundary of your site. If you briefly document the rationale for your decision to apply (or not) the EMC Directive, and you don't upset anybody else, that will probably be an end to it. Other directives, most notably machinery, deliberately use the put into service wording, thus removing any doubt. John C -Original Message- From: T.Sato [mailto:vef00...@nifty.ne.jp] Sent: 19 September 2012 14:13 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Test Fixture for Self On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:40:30 +, Charlie Blackham char...@sulisconsultants.com wrote: Quoting from the Guide for the EMC Directive 2004/108/EC, available from http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/electrical/documents/emc/guidance/ind ex_en.htm 1.2.6 Products for own use Where an apparatus is manufactured for own use, placing on the market is considered to take place at the moment of putting into service; the obligation to comply with the Directive begins with first use. Well, but EMCD itself says: `apparatus' means any finished appliance or combination thereof made commercially available as a single functional unit, intended for the end user and liable to generate elec- tromagnetic disturbance, or the performance of which is liable to be affected by such disturbance; Is such test fixtures made commercially available as a single functional unit? Regards, Tom -- Tomonori Sato vef00...@nifty.ne.jp URL: http://homepage3.nifty.com/tsato/ From: Robert Heller [mailto:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: 19 September 2012 13:24 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Test Fixture for Self If a manufacturer builds a test fixture only to be used by the manufacturer (not commercially available), does the test fixture need to undergo EMC testing? If so, where is this called out? Can placing on the market and putting into service be different things? - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] Transformer Terminals
More and more I'm seeing transformers with Touch-Safe (IP20) terminals being used. But now I'm being told by a supplier that these touch-safe terminals are Required in products marketed in Europe. Is this true? Even in applications to where the transformer is behind tool accessible panels with warning labels and would not be in an area that would require terminals to be touch safe? Are Fast-On connectors ok to use on transformers in Europe in such applications? They are touch safe once the connectors are installed. If this is not true, in what typical application are touch-safe IP20 terminals required? Switchgear maybe? Our typical application is laboratory equipment with low current isolation step-down transformers. Thanks for your input. The Other Brian LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Transformer Terminals
In general, consideration of 'external influences' is defined in 60364-5-51. In particular, note clauses 9, 19 and 23 of 61558-x. Level of touch protection required depends on the IP rating of the component or equipment, and intended end-use of equipment. Remember that peanut butter is not an allowed ground insulator. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Kunde, Brian Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 9:31 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Transformer Terminals More and more I'm seeing transformers with Touch-Safe (IP20) terminals being used. But now I'm being told by a supplier that these touch-safe terminals are Required in products marketed in Europe. Is this true? Even in applications to where the transformer is behind tool accessible panels with warning labels and would not be in an area that would require terminals to be touch safe? Are Fast-On connectors ok to use on transformers in Europe in such applications? They are touch safe once the connectors are installed. If this is not true, in what typical application are touch-safe IP20 terminals required? Switchgear maybe? Our typical application is laboratory equipment with low current isolation step-down transformers. Thanks for your input. The Other Brian - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Transformer Terminals
Boss saw my reply and asked why I did not require this on a previous design. So more better happy follows. Exposed-core dry iso xfmrs for use in a lab (professional use) as a separate (exposed) unit would typically require protection from shock (spacings) and touch protection. Per 61558-1, where the unit is not accessible without tools and has proper spacings to exposed conductive surface, no mandatory touch protection. Your equipment standard is probably 61010-1, so your driver is if the accessibility to the xfmr is 'normal use' - where use of tool to gain access would have no bearing. Boss more better happy? Brian -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:16 AM To: 'EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG' Subject: RE: Transformer Terminals In general, consideration of 'external influences' is defined in 60364-5-51. In particular, note clauses 9, 19 and 23 of 61558-x. Level of touch protection required depends on the IP rating of the component or equipment, and intended end-use of equipment. Remember that peanut butter is not an allowed ground insulator. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Kunde, Brian Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 9:31 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Transformer Terminals More and more I'm seeing transformers with Touch-Safe (IP20) terminals being used. But now I'm being told by a supplier that these touch-safe terminals are Required in products marketed in Europe. Is this true? Even in applications to where the transformer is behind tool accessible panels with warning labels and would not be in an area that would require terminals to be touch safe? Are Fast-On connectors ok to use on transformers in Europe in such applications? They are touch safe once the connectors are installed. If this is not true, in what typical application are touch-safe IP20 terminals required? Switchgear maybe? Our typical application is laboratory equipment with low current isolation step-down transformers. Thanks for your input. The Other Brian - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] DVI-D drivers and displays
Does anyone else have as much trouble with these monitors as I seem to have. One could almost cook popcorn on top of some of the monitors we have for the lab - makes trying to measure the stuff we are generating difficult and annoys all to heck. Using a computer with an expansion bus card driving the monitor. They are both brand name pieces of equipment, but I get 40 MHz multiples that can be above class A all over the place. I've had to run this type of video in a couple of different applications, with different monitors and get pretty much the same response, the cable itself is hotter than heck, but again not something I can control - well I probably could but then I end up with a lab queen support computer. Grr - anybody else having similar problems Gary McInturff Reliability/Compliance Engineer Esterline Interface Technologies Featuring ADVANCED INPUT, MEMTRON, and LRE MEDICAL products 600 W. Wilbur Avenue Coeur d'Alene, ID 83815-9496 Office:208-635-8306 Cell: 509 868 2279 Toll Free: 800-444-5923 X 1238 gary.mcintu...@esterline.commailto:brian.s...@esterline.com www.esterline.com/interfacetechnologieshttp://www.esterline.com/advancedinput Technology, Innovation, Performance... - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Test Fixture for Self
If used in a building or area under our control, I apply the standard at the boundary of our space. If we interfere with ourselves - too bad. If we impact others - so sad and fix it!! From: rehel...@mmm.com rehel...@mmm.com To: emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 8:24 AM Subject: Test Fixture for Self If a manufacturer builds a test fixture only to be used by the manufacturer (not commercially available), does the test fixture need to undergo EMC testing? If so, where is this called out? Can placing on the market and putting into service be different things? Thanks, Bob Heller St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651-778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
