Re: [PSES] Test Fixture for Self
Additionally, the UK has PUWER (Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations) which places an onus on employers to ensure that equipment used by their employees is safe to use. This is most often satisfied by ensuring the equipment has a relevant CE mark. Dave Coleman From: John Cotman john.cot...@conformance.co.uk To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: 19/09/2012 16:19 Subject: Re: [PSES] Test Fixture for Self Pragmatically, so far as EMC is concerned, the only thing likely to give rise to any enforcement interest is if you manage to make something that causes interference to other equipment outside the boundary of your site. If you briefly document the rationale for your decision to apply (or not) the EMC Directive, and you don't upset anybody else, that will probably be an end to it. Other directives, most notably machinery, deliberately use the put into service wording, thus removing any doubt. John C -Original Message- From: T.Sato [mailto:vef00...@nifty.ne.jp] Sent: 19 September 2012 14:13 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Test Fixture for Self On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:40:30 +, Charlie Blackham char...@sulisconsultants.com wrote: Quoting from the Guide for the EMC Directive 2004/108/EC, available from http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/electrical/documents/emc/guidance/ind ex_en.htm 1.2.6 Products for own use Where an apparatus is manufactured for own use, placing on the market is considered to take place at the moment of putting into service; the obligation to comply with the Directive begins with first use. Well, but EMCD itself says: `apparatus' means any finished appliance or combination thereof made commercially available as a single functional unit, intended for the end user and liable to generate elec- tromagnetic disturbance, or the performance of which is liable to be affected by such disturbance; Is such test fixtures made commercially available as a single functional unit? Regards, Tom -- Tomonori Sato vef00...@nifty.ne.jp URL: http://homepage3.nifty.com/tsato/ From: Robert Heller [mailto:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: 19 September 2012 13:24 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Test Fixture for Self If a manufacturer builds a test fixture only to be used by the manufacturer (not commercially available), does the test fixture need to undergo EMC testing? If so, where is this called out? Can placing on the market and putting into service be different things? - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com --- This email and any attached files contains company confidential information which may be legally privileged. it is intended only for the person(s) or entity to which it is addressed and solely for the purposes set forth therein. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this email in error please notify the sender by return, delete it from your system and destroy any local copies. It is strictly forbidden to use the information in this email including any attachment or part thereof including copying, disclosing, distributing, amending or using for any other purpose. In addition the sender excludes all liabilities (whether tortious
[PSES] Length of coiled cables
Hi I remember to have seen an official definition of how to define the length of a coiled cable. This is very interesting when testing EMC burst on cables over 3 meter. When is a coiled cable 3 meter? Especially I need a definition for medical devices under EN 60601-1-2. Best regards, Mr. Kim Boll Jensen Bolls Aps Ved Gadekæret 11F DK-3660 Stenløse Phone: +45 48 18 35 66 k...@bolls.dk www.bolls.dk - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Test Fixture for Self
Every design and manufacturing facility has not just a single test fixture but several hundreds of them as they design, build, and produce the product. Every development chassis sitting in engineering labs or desks are test fixtures, every PCB that is plugged into a backplane for trouble shooting is a test fixture, every burn-in rack is a test fixture, none of which are available to the consumer either to - either private or public, so they are never on the market at all - there is no market. Simple turning on a device that has no commercial usage doesn't define a market. Trying to justify that a manufacture must certify internally used and controlled production and development equipment when they don't, and can't, exist in the commercial world is neither rational nor enforceable, in my opinion. It is such folly that I can't believe it is even an intent for the regulations rather I would suggest it's an unintended consequence. This isn't even a loophole in the protection of the public airways since enforcement still exists that would require any devices -real or for production purposes- that interfere with the public airways etc to be shut down or ameliorated. There is a huge difference between 1 or 10's of units in a specific industrial location and thousands and millions of units in homes and offices around the world, and trying to enforce a problem that doesn't exist isn't a useful nor a pragmatic or truly enforceable exercise - even if it a purposeful intent rather than an unintended consequence. Obviously this is my opinion only. Gary From: Bill Owsley [mailto:wdows...@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 8:06 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Test Fixture for Self If used in a building or area under our control, I apply the standard at the boundary of our space. If we interfere with ourselves - too bad. If we impact others - so sad and fix it!! From: rehel...@mmm.com rehel...@mmm.com To: emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 8:24 AM Subject: Test Fixture for Self If a manufacturer builds a test fixture only to be used by the manufacturer (not commercially available), does the test fixture need to undergo EMC testing? If so, where is this called out? Can placing on the market and putting into service be different things? Thanks, Bob Heller St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651-778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files,
[PSES] 100V, 100ms ETSI Transient or Surge
Group, Has anyone performed or can point me to a 100V, 100ms transient/surge spec for ETSI? I have a product that needs to meet this requirement and the client states it's required under ETSI 132-2 which it is not. ( At least not under the current revision ) However, I have found several DC brick manufacturers claiming compliance to an ETSI 132-2 spec for a 100V, 100ms transient. One dc brick manufacturer states: The impetus for the change to 100V for 100ms input voltage transient protection is primarily due to a particular interpretation of the ETSI ETS300 132-2 specification. A number of our customers have uniquely interpreted this document to indicate that a 100V input transient for 100ms is a necessary requirement of all dc/dc converters to meet this specification. We feel that this interpretation of the ETSI spec will become more widespread and eventually could become an industry standard for dc/dc converters. The specific requirement states that all dc/dc converters must have the ability to withstand a transient that lasts between 10ms and 100ms of 100V amplitude without shutting down or being damaged. The actual ETSI specification is admittedly very vague and does not even mention the amplitude of the voltage step. Many companies have interpreted the exact same document differently and indicate that 100V for 10 μs input voltage transient capability is acceptable. In fact, nearly all dc/dc converters available on the market today provide a lower level of protection. We havedecided to implement this design change on new products so that we can satisfy both sets of customers, regardless of how they interpret this ETSI specification. Therefore, we are providing protection above and beyond what is expected and required in the marketplace. Meeting the demanding requirements of our global customers will result in increased worldwide compliance for our product line. Any experience, updates or comments on this is appreciated. Thanks, Jeff - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Length of coiled cables
On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 16:35:52 +0200, Kim Boll Jensen k...@bolls.dk wrote: I remember to have seen an official definition of how to define the length of a coiled cable. This is very interesting when testing EMC burst on cables over 3 meter. When is a coiled cable 3 meter? Especially I need a definition for medical devices under EN 60601-1-2. CISPR 24 says that: Coil cables (such as keyboard cables) shall not be intentionally stretched during testing. For such cables, the length specified in the table notes refers to the stretched conditions. but not sure about the other standards. Regards, Tom -- Tomonori Sato vef00...@nifty.ne.jp URL: http://homepage3.nifty.com/tsato/ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
